HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Los Angeles Kings
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Rebuild for 2008 or 2010?

View Poll Results: Rebuild for now or later?
2008 - losing sucks and we already have Kopitar/Johnson! 17 58.62%
2010 - will we ever lose a game with Kop/JMFJ and Tavares?? 12 41.38%
Voters: 29. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-06-2007, 02:47 AM
  #1
Rorschach
Fearful Symmetry
 
Rorschach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 7,069
vCash: 500
Rebuild for 2008 or 2010?

2008 - Win right away!
We are starting to have enough prospects and cap space to possibly rejoin the playoffs by 2008. With the right moves and the maturation of a few key prospects, we might even be good. However, while we might contend for the Cup in a couple of years, I don't think we're quite at the point where we will be perennial Cup contenders. But then again, the last couple years the all of the teams playing for the Cup, from Calgary/Tampa Bay to last year's Carolina/Edmonton, were all surprises to me. I could see the Kings turning things around immediately after the 2007 season and trading some of the prospects from 2007 plus picks from 2008 and make a good team now, with Vis, Fro and Camms still in their primes. The sooner we start, the sooner we win and possibly do playoff damage.

2010 - With Tavares!
On the other hand, we need time to see if we need another top tier goaltending prospect and there's the possibility of going for Tavares in 2009, and of course bulk up on top defense prospects. So my preference is actually to lose and lose big for at least several more years. In this scenario, let DL attempt highway robbery for a few 2009 1st rounders/top young goaltender/top defensemen prospects using guys we would hate to see leave but have great value on the market such as Frolov, Cammalleri, Visnovsky and even Dustin Brown, depending on how much we get offered, and attempt to build a post-cap dynasty. Plus, even if we fail to get Tavares, we will have a lot of top picks and prospects to work with.

To me, I can tolerate the losing if we're going after Tavares. By the time the Kings would be good, I would be able to afford season tickets.


How about you guys/gals?

Rorschach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2007, 02:59 AM
  #2
Osprey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 14,703
vCash: 500
This year has, surprisingly, been quite tolerable for me. I wouldn't be crushed if it continued for another one or two. That said, though, everyone in the hockey world was gah-gah over Esposito at 16 years old, too, so I don't think that Tavares is a smart reason. He could have his stock drop to 10th by then, too, and you would've thrown two seasons for nothing.

Osprey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2007, 02:59 AM
  #3
Legionnaire
Kill! Jeff, Kill!!!
 
Legionnaire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: LA-LA Land
Country: United States
Posts: 35,600
vCash: 500
With Tavares for sure. Not only JT, but there's a bunch of great guys in next years draft.

Meanwhile, Bernier will be developing the next two, and could possibly
step in and be our number one.

__________________
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain
Legionnaire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2007, 03:08 AM
  #4
Live in the Now
Global Moderator
YNWA
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: LA
Country: United States
Posts: 32,224
vCash: 500
Awards:
Yeah, let's make an attempt to hold onto the sliver of ticket buyers that the organization has by putting this off until 2010.

On paper, it's a good idea. As a BUSINESS model, it is not. You think DL would be kept around if the team wasn't good for another 3 years? Hell no. This ownership group does not want to wait, and being the group that they are, I would not want to let their money go by the wayside. Besides, we would have to get rid of Kopi and Johnson to get Taveras. Those two will be too good to let the team lose for that long. And if that did happen, how do you keep those guys around. Enticing them and other vets to play with an 18 year old kid isn't going to work when things are going rough, I'm sorry to tell you. Going with just kids does not win Cups.

Nobody has the time for the long rebuild anymore. Ownership groups (they will bail if they aren't getting a return), fans, media and players do not have the time to do so. Now, it's get results in 2-3 years or you and your coach that you hired will be on your ***** collecting unemployment.

If a guaranteed Cup were to come out of it, I would be down. But we're talking about the real world, where nothing's guaranteed and it has to be earned.


Last edited by Live in the Now: 04-06-2007 at 03:23 AM. Reason: Added because there's plenty of time between now and when everyone will be reading it.
Live in the Now is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2007, 03:19 AM
  #5
jeffreyaa
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: GutFest '89
Country: Slovenia
Posts: 551
vCash: 500
With the lottery system it's too much of a variable anyway to be playing for Tavares. I DON'T think his stock will possibly drop short of catastrophic injury, but it's just too much of a wildcard to try for him under this system. Besides, with the good kids we have, all we need is some decent goaltending next year to be a playoff team- with even better things ahead.

jeffreyaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2007, 07:06 AM
  #6
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 114,250
vCash: 50
I love it when people base rebuilding off ping pong balls 2 years from now.

__________________
Philadelphia's Real Alternative
(ynotradio.net)

Stop Feeding the Rumor-Monger

"I wonder if Norstrom has Forsberg's spleen mounted on his wall." - KINGS17

My 50 Favorite Albums of 2014 (sorry it's late)
GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2007, 09:54 AM
  #7
Fat Elvis
Registered User
 
Fat Elvis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The Money Pit
Country: United States
Posts: 5,364
vCash: 500
I'm not a big fan of losing, this season has taken most of that from me. Lets get a great/good player this draft and make the playoffs next season.

Fat Elvis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2007, 10:35 AM
  #8
Quattro
Registered User
 
Quattro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 4,346
vCash: 500
I give up.


Quattro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2007, 12:05 PM
  #9
VADEN
Registered User
 
VADEN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Anaheim, Ca.
Country: United States
Posts: 1,291
vCash: 500
this is the first year that i have actually been able to turn off a kings game before its over. there was just too much crap for me to handle. from the goaltending to the f'd-up line combinations and being out of the playoff picture since december. i'll admit i was one of the few who thought the team would still be descent this year. i want to start winning now, screw 2010. only good thing about this year was watching brown, cammi, kopi, frolov, o'sullivan, and jj.

VADEN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2007, 12:28 PM
  #10
Awayboardn
Registered User
 
Awayboardn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Quartz Hill
Country: United States
Posts: 546
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Awayboardn
I for one do not want to suffer another 2 seasons before we start to turn things around...I believe we have built a young solid team and I personally think we are going to do good things next season....all we need to figure out is goaltending...we are still better than half the teams out there it's just our goalies that let us down...plus during the off season all our new players will get a better chance to play with each other and hopefully Crawford will have set lines for next season...because let's face it...it's really hard to get hot on the ice if you are playing with different playres w/different styles every day...once we set the lines with our young talent I think things will turn around!

Awayboardn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2007, 01:40 PM
  #11
lumbergh
Registered User
 
lumbergh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Richmond, VA
Country: Taiwan
Posts: 1,691
vCash: 500
Uhh, 2009? This ship is not making a 180 degree turn in a season. Assuming Cammalleri gets signed to a multi-year deal, one major free-agent signing this season, and one major FA signing next season to replace a retiring Rob Blake, we should be looking at a very good young, but maturing Kings team that should make the playoffs in 2009. Lombardi has maintained he has a three-year plan, which takes him to...2009!

lumbergh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2007, 04:06 PM
  #12
RonSwanson*
Gadfly
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Food 'N Stuff
Country: United States
Posts: 8,769
vCash: 500
This thread is lame.

Basically we're being asked if we can wait 2 more years for the "chance" to get hit-or-miss Tavares. I'm not about to wait two more years for the next Daigle.

Play for now, and when the time comes, you deal with Tavares then.

I don't care if Tavares is the next Gretzky. We had Gretzky and still didn't win the Cup.

RonSwanson* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2007, 04:22 PM
  #13
Captain Ron
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Gardnerville, NV
Country: United States
Posts: 17,409
vCash: 500
If the Kings are not a playoff team by the 2008-09 season at the latest......I will be incredibly shocked. By then the team will have guys like Cammalleri and Frolov in their prime. Anze Kopitar with 2 years of NHL experience. Johnson with a full NHL season under his belt and possibly 1-2 good free agent defensemen on the team. The goaltending should be better....meaning that Cloutier has improved or is gone. And they will have players like Tukonen, Lewis, and possibly this years 1st round pick contributing to the team's success. I just can't see them not being in the playoff picture for 2 more seasons.

Captain Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2007, 04:26 PM
  #14
Tadite
Registered User
 
Tadite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Rhode Island
Country: United States
Posts: 4,823
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by adevandry View Post
This thread is lame.

Basically we're being asked if we can wait 2 more years for the "chance" to get hit-or-miss Tavares. I'm not about to wait two more years for the next Daigle.

Play for now, and when the time comes, you deal with Tavares then.

I don't care if Tavares is the next Gretzky. We had Gretzky and still didn't win the Cup.


Yup. What he is also saying is that we give up on 2 whole years of the Kids. Because in 2 years those aren't kids anymore they are mature NHL hockey players just entering their primes. So what are we suppose to do? Dump Frolov, Cammy, ete just so we can be the worse team in the league?

The basic idea is stupid. We have our core better hope it pans out.

Tadite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-07-2007, 12:36 PM
  #15
JPFT
Los Angeles Kings
 
JPFT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Country:
Posts: 2,723
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
2008 - Win right away!
We are starting to have enough prospects and cap space to possibly rejoin the playoffs by 2008. With the right moves and the maturation of a few key prospects, we might even be good. However, while we might contend for the Cup in a couple of years, I don't think we're quite at the point where we will be perennial Cup contenders. But then again, the last couple years the all of the teams playing for the Cup, from Calgary/Tampa Bay to last year's Carolina/Edmonton, were all surprises to me. I could see the Kings turning things around immediately after the 2007 season and trading some of the prospects from 2007 plus picks from 2008 and make a good team now, with Vis, Fro and Camms still in their primes. The sooner we start, the sooner we win and possibly do playoff damage.

agreed

2010 - With Tavares!
On the other hand, we need time to see if we need another top tier goaltending prospect and there's the possibility of going for Tavares in 2009, and of course bulk up on top defense prospects. So my preference is actually to lose and lose big for at least several more years. In this scenario, let DL attempt highway robbery for a few 2009 1st rounders/top young goaltender/top defensemen prospects using guys we would hate to see leave but have great value on the market such as Frolov, Cammalleri, Visnovsky and even Dustin Brown, depending on how much we get offered, and attempt to build a post-cap dynasty. Plus, even if we fail to get Tavares, we will have a lot of top picks and prospects to work with.

i agree with the part of "we hate to see them leave", i disagree with the part where you insinuate trading them

To me, I can tolerate the losing if we're going after Tavares. By the time the Kings would be good, I would be able to afford season tickets.


How about you guys/gals?

JPFT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-07-2007, 01:01 PM
  #16
Scottkmlps
Moderator
 
Scottkmlps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ladysmith, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,797
vCash: 500
How many blue-chip talent does this team need? They already have Kopitar and JMFJ to build around for the future. Two isn't enough? The kids have been handed more ice-time this season and have responded very well. The Kings already have 5 of their future top-6 forwards playing right now, in Kopitar, Cammalleri, Frolov, O'Sullivan , and Brown. To round out that top 6, you hope one of the other youngsters like Tukonen or Lewis develop into that. If not, you add a young free agent.
The team waits till 2010 to make a serious run for it by adding Taveras, but who says he won't need a year or two in the minors first. Then you're looking at 2011 or 2012. No thank you.

Scottkmlps is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-07-2007, 02:52 PM
  #17
Captain Ron
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Gardnerville, NV
Country: United States
Posts: 17,409
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottkmlps View Post
The team waits till 2010 to make a serious run for it by adding Taveras, but who says he won't need a year or two in the minors first. Then you're looking at 2011 or 2012. No thank you.
Tavares is one of the best players in Juniors at the age of 16. I guarantee you that he will play in the NHL the year that he is drafted. Also don't overlook whoever the Kings draft this year stepping into the top 6 within the next 2 years.

Captain Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2007, 02:42 PM
  #18
Rorschach
Fearful Symmetry
 
Rorschach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 7,069
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by adevandry View Post
This thread is lame.

Basically we're being asked if we can wait 2 more years for the "chance" to get hit-or-miss Tavares. I'm not about to wait two more years for the next Daigle.

Play for now, and when the time comes, you deal with Tavares then.

I don't care if Tavares is the next Gretzky. We had Gretzky and still didn't win the Cup.

What's your problem? I'm just a Kings fan that wants to win the Cup; I guess you're just someone that likes to attack people on boards yet has no clue. I acknowledge that there are at least two ways of thinking about this and I even provide arguments. The reason why I rolled this poll out is because I'm sure that nearly every poster in this sub-forum has wished that we were rebuilding when Ovechkin/Malkin and Sid were available in the draft and not now, when the draft appears to lack any top level talent. Since we just happen to have the luxury of knowing the next great prospect and a deep draft are coming and are only a year away from our rebuild, I figured I could post a theoretical idea about including them.

You know, of the last like 20 years, of all of the #1 picks that were highly hyped have all panned out except for Daigle.
1988 - Mike Modano (hyped, panned)
1989 - Mats Sundin (hyped, panned)
1990 - Owen Nolan (draft was hyped, not him, but he panned anyway...draft also was strong)
1991 - Eric Lindros (big-time hype, panned, 1995 Hart Trophy MVP)
1992 - Roman Hamrlik (mild hype, panned into a #1 D-man)
1993 - Alexandre Daigle (big-time hype, part 2, did not fulfill hype)
1994 - Ed Jovanovski (not highly hyped, sort-of panned)
1995 - Bryan Berard (mild hype, panned but effectiveness was cut from eye injury)
1996 - Chris Phillips (not hyped, weak draft, became everyday defensman)
1997 - Joe Thornton (panned, big time)
1998 - Vincent Lecavalier (hyped, panned)
1999 - Patrik Stefan (was hyped until suffering multiple concussions before draft, bad draft pick)
2000 - Rick Dipietro (not hyped, panned into a #1 goalie but pick was a reach)
2001 - Ilya Kovulchuk (hyped, panned)
2002 - Rick Nash (mildly hyped, panned)
2003 - Marc-Andre Fleury (mildly hyped, jury is still out since he is a young goalie)
2004 - Alexander Ovechkin (hyped, so far it looks like he's panned)
2005 - Sidney Crosby (majorly hyped, majorly panned out so far)
2006 - Erik Johnson (mild hype, too early to tell)

So of all the guys who were hyped as the clear #1 draft choice, nearly all of them panned out except for Daigle. I'll take those odds on ANY day. I agree there's no guarantee of anything but this isn't a thread saying rebuilding for now is a bad idea; it's a thread saying there are two ways to go and I'd like to rebuild for a longer period. In the salary cap era, a team will need a lot of young talent locked in at low contracts in order to contend every year. So your logic that Tavares = Daigle is "lame." Maybe it's not what you meant but it is what you said and if you're going to attack someone else, you better be sure your own house is in order.

I guess since you didn't get the thread, I'll spell it out for you. Even if for some reason Tavares isn't there, through injuries or we don't get the #1 pick, we will have a lot of picks and prospects from trading our top guys from now, much more than we have currently. We will need a large reserve of picks and prospects even when we have a good team on the ice so that we can pull off the Doug Weight, Mark Recchi, Peter Forsberg-type trades at the deadline to fill whatever big hole any contending team inevitably has. Right now, we don't even have enough prospects to build a good team. We lack D and depth at goaltending, and you want to talk about a strategy where we gamble by putting all our eggs in the Bernier basket? Tavares has a better chance of panning than any young goalie prospect in hockey, including Bernier. ...and man, your logic about having Gretzky and not winning the Cup, maybe you should just quit now. There's not a single GM in the NHL that doesn't think their chances would be much greater in winning the Cup with a player like him. The Kings made the finals and almost won that series too with Gretz. Before that, they never broke past the 2nd round of the playoffs and haven't gotten past the 2nd round since either. The "a player like Gretz doesn't help you win a Cup" logic is possibly the most laughable thing I've read on these boards and that's saying something.

While no one likes to let go of the players they watched develop, a lot of the old-time Kings fans who have seen so many mediocre seasons and players come and go, some of us would actually like to see the Kings be top dogs for once. In order to do that, we will need way more top talent than we have now, especially in goaltending department, and that talent all has to be on the same team at the same time with the players' primes also overlapping, with reserve talent resources for trades. No matter what, with Clouts in net, we'll probably be rebuilding through 2008. So why not rebuild through 2009? I want to win the Cup, not just win. The topic isn't as "lame" as you think and definitely isn't as "lame" as your takes that "Tavares is the next Daigle" and "Gretz didn't help the Kings chances in winning the Cup. " I'm just hoping your good logic temporarily left you just because you were disgusted with the Kings season and it's not something permanent. After reading a ton of posts on this board, I don't remember you making crazy statements like this in the past...

- R


Last edited by Rorschach: 04-08-2007 at 02:53 PM.
Rorschach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2007, 03:13 PM
  #19
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
 
Ziggy Stardust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 33,898
vCash: 500
I'm sick of following a team of losers. The sooner that changes, the better.

Ziggy Stardust is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2007, 03:16 PM
  #20
Tadite
Registered User
 
Tadite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Rhode Island
Country: United States
Posts: 4,823
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
I'm sick of following a team of losers. The sooner that changes, the better.
Agreed.

There is no way we get Tavares and their is no way we should give up on 2 YEARS of hockey just so we can see some other crap team win the lotto. ..

Hell this is the reason we have a lotto in the first place...


We have the core NOW all we need is a average goalie and we are in the playoffs.

Tadite is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:05 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.