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The Claude Lemieux Conundrum

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Old
04-10-2007, 04:47 PM
  #26
Nalyd Psycho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
True. But most Canuck fans have either never heard or forgotten the "carnival" comment from the 1994 work stoppage. I wonder if that would change anyone's view of him?
Clearly it didn't. Everyone has some dirt under the sheets. If it's salient, it will stick.

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04-10-2007, 05:55 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
True. But most Canuck fans have either never heard or forgotten the "carnival" comment from the 1994 work stoppage. I wonder if that would change anyone's view of him?
What was the carnival comment?

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Old
04-10-2007, 10:25 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cup 2007 Sens Rule! View Post
What was the carnival comment?
During the lockout of 1994, BCTV (now Global Vancouver) interviewed Linden. It went like this:

BCTV: Trevor with player salaries as high as they are and this work stoppage being in part about money, what do you have to say about the average fan not being able to afford to go to games anymore?

Linden: Well, they can go to the carnival then...


My jaw hit the floor when I heard him say that. I watched the late news to see the clip again just to make sure I heard what I thought I heard.

Most Canuck fans either never saw it or they have forgotten about it. I liked Linden before that comment, I have hated him ever since.

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04-10-2007, 11:21 PM
  #29
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If that comment took you from liking a guy to hating him, not too many guys will be on your good list by the ends of their career. Sounds mildly offensive, at worst, to me.

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Old
04-10-2007, 11:23 PM
  #30
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I bet you at least a 3rd of that panel hates Claude's guts, he'll never get in beca8use of that.

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Old
04-10-2007, 11:36 PM
  #31
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I'm having a hard time taking any offense to Linden's "Carnival" comment.

The HHOF should be those that were great at the game while jersey retirement is a mixture of that and being great for/to the city.

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Old
04-11-2007, 01:55 AM
  #32
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You have to be pretty sensative to take offence to that. Yeah, it was innapropriate, but, it was likely just the first thought that came to mind. He was likely framing the question as, "If I'm not going to a hockey game, where do I take the family for entertainment?" Or, since the Canucks played on the PNE fairgrounds then, maybe he was encouraged to promote PNE/Playland...

To me, it humanizes him rather than having a prepackaged business answer for everything.

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Old
04-11-2007, 02:09 AM
  #33
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Context, gentlemen.

Linden was between bites on his 5th puppy of the night when he made that remark. What else could make it so insidiously evil?

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Old
04-11-2007, 07:13 AM
  #34
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Dick Duff has gotten into the Hall of Fame for the same reasons that Claude Lemieux may get in. I dont agree with Duff being in there and people that support Claude getting in there should look no further than Duff. Lemieux was not better in the regualr season than Duff (maybe even) and he was barely better in the playoffs (maybe even as well). If Duff is controversial and we fell off our chairs hearing him get in it'll be the same way if Lemieux ever does. He just doesnt strike me as great

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Old
04-11-2007, 07:19 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
BCTV: Trevor with player salaries as high as they are and this work stoppage being in part about money, what do you have to say about the average fan not being able to afford to go to games anymore?

Linden: Well, they can go to the carnival then...
Obviously he was talking about the PNE, an awesome value for family entertainment, and indeed the next option!

It sounded worse than it was. Those of us from B.C. knew what and why he said it. Not as controversial as it sounds.

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Old
04-11-2007, 08:47 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Obviously he was talking about the PNE, an awesome value for family entertainment, and indeed the next option!

It sounded worse than it was. Those of us from B.C. knew what and why he said it. Not as controversial as it sounds.
I don't know why people give Linden a free pass on this one.

I lived in BC when this happened and I know what and why he said things. There was no hockey being played and Linden came right out and said he doesn't care about the fans' situation, he just wants more in his wallet. He was obviously pissed off about not playing (or being paid) and he said what he really felt.

There are much classier ways to answer this question and Linden chose to take the low road.

That carnival comment does not sit well with me. Linden was way out of line with what he said and that puts him in the Sean Avery/Chris Chelios/Bryan McCabe category of saying stupid things in the media.


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Old
04-11-2007, 02:15 PM
  #37
Nalyd Psycho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
I don't know why people give Linden a free pass on this one.

I lived in BC when this happened and I know what and why he said things. There was no hockey being played and Linden came right out and said he doesn't care about the fans' situation, he just wants more in his wallet. He was obviously pissed off about not playing (or being paid) and he said what he really felt.

There are much classier ways to answer this question and Linden chose to take the low road.

That carnival comment does not sit well with me. Linden was way out of line with what he said and that puts him in the Sean Avery/Chris Chelios/Bryan McCabe category of saying stupid things in the media.
You either need to give more context or you are reading WAY too much into the comment.

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Old
04-11-2007, 02:20 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
I have a different standard than most people, I guess.

I would never retire Linden's number, nor would I retire Alfredsson's or Lowe's. To me, that honor should be reserved for greatness only not goodness. In fact, it kind of bugs me to see a big 3 Hamilton hanging next to Gretzky, Kurri, Coffey, Fuhr and Messier at Rexall Place.
I have to agree with you, I've always thought that a Jersey Retirement is the highest honor, beyond the Hall of Fame. I feel it should be reserved for the true all time greats.

But with the way that retirements have gone, Linden definitely deserves to be enshrined.

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04-11-2007, 02:48 PM
  #39
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Should the Canucks retire Bure instead of Linden? Since Bure was a far better player?

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Old
04-11-2007, 02:49 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cup 2007 Sens Rule! View Post
Should the Canucks retire Bure instead of Linden? Since Bure was a far better player?
No, I don't think Bure had the character.

It should be a combination of the two, IMO.

Just to expand, I like the idea of honoring numbers, it shows the appreciation that an organization has for a players contribution to their team. But the idea of retiring a number, to me anyways, is something that should be saved for the select few who deserve it. In the case of the Canucks, I don't think we've had anyone who has reached that level.


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Old
04-12-2007, 01:36 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cup 2007 Sens Rule! View Post
Should the Canucks retire Bure instead of Linden? Since Bure was a far better player?
Bure is more deserving but, I don't know that he did enough before leaving the Canucks. A few of his great years were with the Panthers.

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Old
04-12-2007, 01:52 PM
  #42
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Stan Smyl and Trevor Linden ARE the Vancouver Canucks in ways Bure isn't.

Likewise, Claude Lemieux is not fully identified with a particular team.

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Old
04-12-2007, 02:06 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post

Most Canuck fans either never saw it or they have forgotten about it. I liked Linden before that comment, I have hated him ever since.
I think you're a bit bi-polar than

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Old
04-12-2007, 02:07 PM
  #44
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Incidently, I think teams should have their own "wall of fame" type of thing. Players get a plaque and ceremony and all that. You save retiring numbers for the TRULY special but you can still honour guys who meant a lot to the team.

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Old
04-13-2007, 05:20 PM
  #45
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Can you hold someone out of the HoF for having political stances that don't work out in the long run?

Can you do that if someone supported the Iraq war or if they support the Palestinians? What if they speak out against the government?

Who decides?

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Old
04-13-2007, 06:40 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by pkd88 View Post
Can you hold someone out of the HoF for having political stances that don't work out in the long run?

Can you do that if someone supported the Iraq war or if they support the Palestinians? What if they speak out against the government?

Who decides?
For sure, They can decide for any reason & you will never know. It is an appointed committee who votes in secret & do not report their reasons. Which is why i consider the HOF a crock.

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Old
04-16-2007, 11:50 AM
  #47
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Funny, I was just thinking about who I would put into the HOF based only upon my personal observations of the NHL since 1991-2. Lemiuex was definitely included. He may not have been among the most talented players in the past decade and a half, but he is surely among the most notorious. Hell, his pestiness alone might have gotten him on my list, but when you add in the fact that the was an elite level playoff performer for at least several playoff runs, I definitely think he is one of those guys who will still be talked about in 20 years. And since I've always thought the HoF should put more stock in the "Fame" part of its name when making selections, that puts Lemieux in the "in" crowd for me.

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Old
04-16-2007, 12:25 PM
  #48
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Not a first or second ballot HOF'ER. But Pepe will get in, at which point Detroit will burn....again...

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