HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

A sad, strange tale is interpreted by an outisder returning home

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-17-2003, 12:25 AM
  #1
mamettt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,053
vCash: 500
A sad, strange tale is interpreted by an outisder returning home

My first night back in Alberta after having been gone for six months. It's odd, so much open space, and only twelve hours ago I was in the hussle and bussle that is manhattan. As I eagerly await to re-acquaint myself with friends and family for the holidays, I feel I need to comment on the comrie situation. Over the last couple of weeks, there's been many strange, bizarre twists, most of which I've stayed silent about. It's been finals the last three weeks, and honeslty, I just haven't been able to make the kind of solid posts I've wanted to. I felt I should just wait until I got home to really get back on the board. Funny how the night I get home, the big shoe drops. I haven't been on the ground in alberta to get a feel for public opinion(I only have the local media to go off of) and I certainly haven't followed every comment and news brief both sides have given since the start of this. I consider myself somewhat of an outsider in this matter, a position that gives me a somewhat different point of view than most posters on the boards. If any of the mods feel this is not worth a thread on it's own, please amalgamate this into another thread. Anyway, here's how I breakdown the entire situation:

The Trade Itself

One can do nothing but conclude that Lowe failed in his endeavour to get value for comrie. Lowe claimed on more than one occasion his desire to get a deal that helps the oilers for both "now" and in the "future". Uhmm, what happened to that whole "now" part? When one has as an asset such as comrie, a 23 year old 33 goal scorer, their is no excuse to get the return lowe got. Don't get me wrong. Jeff W. is a good young defensmen with a solid upside. The first rounder, although very low, still has value, as does the third. But this means nothing to me, or most fans. Woywitka may become something in the long run. But judging how Semenov has been treated this year, he won't see the lineup by the end of the season unless the oilers truly go to pieces. As for 2004, well no defensmen comes in and contributes greatly in their rookie years. So in effect, Woywitka won't have any large scale impact until at least two season from now. If all breaks well, he won't hit his prime for another 4-5 years. And that's best case scenario. Worst case? Well just look at how long it's taken brewer, look at all the many failed "blue chip" d-men in this league, and look at Mac-t's unimpressive track record with young players. You guys get the drift. Meanwhile comrie, who has proven his ability to score, will be sorrounded with a better supporting cast than he had in Edm, will be one out of a number of stars, and will be just coming into his prime. I look at comrie and see a young jeremy ronick. He may even add an edge to his game...in any event, he's a productive, young, cheap scorer, and he'll help the flyers for a long time. The oilers have nothing to show for him but question marks, and that is unnaceptable.

Wowitka is nothing but a name on a depth chart at this point, and the same can be said for the draft picks. Talk all you want about his upside. Talk all you want about how smooth a skater he is, or how he played on the WJ squad. Those comments, those skills...They don't help us now, and they perhaps never will. When one is trading away a 23 year old 60 point center whose willing to sign for less than 2 million dollars, you have to get better return. I am sorry. Say what you will- that my emotions are getting the best of me, that I am failing to appreciate Lowe's tenable situation- but the edmonton oilers hockey team is no better today than they were yesterday. Lowe clearly failed to help the team improve today, and it's dicey if this trade ever will. When Lowe traded Poti, we got an Nhler back. Ditto for weight, guerin, etc. Why was this time different? I don't know, but if Lowe wasn't given NHL players in return, why not just sit comrie? Why not just wait till the dealine and pull another "york"esque trade? Everyone would love to add a 30 goal scorer at the deadline, and I see no reason why Lowe couldn't of waited, especially when all he was getting was prospects. Oh, but you say..."maybe no NHLers were offered to him"....to that I say, so what. Wait if you don't like the deals. But don't trade away a great young asset for questions marks. I like Woywitka. I like our future. But our team is quickly fading from the playoff picture, and in the comrie debacle, lowe had a markatable asset that he could use to get us viable help now. He didn't. Case closed.

What this whole mess means for this organization

Nobody comes way from this looking good. Not Lowe, not Mac-t, not comrie, not winter, and not the city of edmonton. It's been a black cloud that has taken the focus off where it should be(on the ice) and it's clearly distracted this team. I can remember in the summer, when it all began, how innocent it seemed at the time. Comrie is holding out, maybe for a few days, a week, maybe even two...to get more money probably. That was fine I thought. There's been other holdouts, there's been other disputes. We've dealt with them...I would never have imagined that this would get the way it has. I'm not going to recount the debacle blow by blow, other than to say that Lowe and Mac-t carry much of the burden in this. Comrie had diffeciencies in his game. So to did Poti. So to does Hemsky.

In two years, when we get eliminated from the first round of the playoffs because Lowe has failed to assemble a team with as much talent as our rivals, will hemsky bear the brunt of the blame? Will he be called out for his weak defensive play and his lack of physicality, desptie his enormous skill? Fact of the matter is, player's are rarely, if ever, complete. It's the coaching staff's job to make them that way, as well as the player's own innitative. If he shows an unwillingess to learn or improve, than you have to either move on without him or accept him as he is. I don't think comrie was unwilling to work on his Defense, or was not open to improvement. I don't think calling him out for what was in fact a team loss was the right move. I don't think severing ties with him, locking him out, did any good. Lowe wasn't thinking for the best interests of the club; If he was, he'd have realize that he was allienating the team's number one center and blue chip player. He was thinking of the ride comrie took the oilers for in his first contract, and still feeling the bitter sting at losing in the first round again, lowe needed a scape goat. He fou sure found one.

Mact- as he has also shown with poti, isbister, hemsky, and now even semenov- does not deal all that well with young players weaknesses. Every young player has them. Every young player has the responsibility to improve. But a coach can go along way to help that, and alienating potentially impact players because they have flaws in their game is not the best way to go about that. Mac-t has to accept that players need to be dealt with individually, at that tough love is not always the best option. He is not coaching a veteran team, he is coaching the youngest team in the NHL. What scares me about his coaching is that he's show little ability to mold and improve many of our youngsters. A good coach knows what strings to pull and what strings not to touch, and he also realizes that every player is different and unique, in need each of individual treatment. Mac-t has shown very little ability to do this. Seriously, ask yourself, what young player has substantially improved under mac-t that wasn't already a veteran or close to a veteran already? It's a tough question to asnwer, I know. What happens if Brewer continues to struggle like he has been? What happens if Hemsky hits a wall?

These questions are also important to ask of the organization as a whole. Yes, we amass a lot of young talent. But it's one thing to have young talent and it's a whole other matter to utilize it and shape it. How will we ever get past being a pushover in the west if we can't take our prospects and turn them from young and incomplete players to complete(or as complete as they can be) players in their prime? When they hit a wall, when they struggle, when they argue with the coach...which all young players do at some point or another...are we going to just keep on shipping them out of town? Sometimes shipping them out yields good returns(york), sometimes it doesn't(the futures we got for comrie). We failed with poti and comrie. Brewer and Hemsky are up next. The oilers, under Lowe, have yet to take that leap into contender status. One of the reasons why is how poorly we convert young talent into complete players.

Certainly I dont' want to vindicate the players completely. They need to work hard, play hard, and want to learn. But nobody can argue that Poti wasn't improving in his last month here. Nobody can argue that comrie didn't play very well in his year and a half here after being thrust into the number one center role. How many 21 year old's excell and score 33 goals in their first full year, carrying the weight of the offensive load on a team, and in comrie's case, also trying to fit the shoes of a vanquished leader(weight)? Lecavelier couldn't do it in TB. Neither could Kobasew in Cgy, or Thornton in Bos. Comrie did. Yes he was flawed, but he was far from irreperable. Comrie was certainly thin skined in this matter. But as an organization, Lowe and company have to either deal with that and move on, or face the alternative, which has been this fiasco.

On a more depressing note, the oilers trade strategy continues. Lowe had the upper hand in these dealings, offering the cheap 33 goal scorer, just as he had the upper hand when he was trading carter, ninimma, and weight. Like those trades, he has little immediate impact to show for his returns, and he got essentially nothing but questions marks in return. Say what you want about "market dynamics" and "what team's were offering what", Lowe continues to think down the road. That is fine, but at some point you have to look up and say, I need someone now. I am the controller in this trade, I am the aggressor. And if all they are offering you are un-proven nothings, than don't take it. The oilers have a disconnection in their organizational philosophy...they build and build and build, but they havne't shown they can take those young prospects and turn them into complete players. Lowe has yet to back a bonafide trade in which one can look up and say...wow, he really did get good value. He really did well. I doubt we will ever say that, for keving Lowe is just not that good when it comes to trading. He's had his moments(york), but for the most part, he has rarely gotten fair value for what are very valuable assets.

To close, I feel that, from a purely PR standpoint, this scandal has hurt the oilers incredibly. Lowe will now have to face the wrath of Bryan Murray, whatever form that comes in, and every other GM will be all the more leary of dealing with a GM who goes back on a handshaked aggreement. I don't think what Lowe did to Murray was un-ethical, but it certainly didn't make him look good. Lowe's asking comrie to "pay his way" out of edmonton is now the dubious low point(pardon the PUN) in his tenure as GM. Extorting a player because you can't cut it at the trade table is about as underhanded a thing a GM can do, and Lowe should be ashamed that he ever asked for it, and that it got out in the open. It made him- and by extension, the oilers- look petty, amateurish, and vindictive. I wish comrie the best, and I know he will do well. I wish Woywitka the best, and hope he can add an impact down the road, recognizing he is neither a savior nor a perfect, complete player and that he will indeed struggle, as all young players do. But I would be lying if I didn't say that this has been a most distressing incident in the history of our club. Many underlying issues regarding treatment of young players in relation to our organizational philosophy have been revealed because of this, and they need to be discussed and examined.


Last edited by mamettt: 12-17-2003 at 12:38 AM.
mamettt is offline  
Old
12-17-2003, 05:56 AM
  #2
HotToddy
Registered User
 
HotToddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,604
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamettt
My first night back in Alberta after having been gone for six months. It's odd, so much open space, and only twelve hours ago I was in the hussle and bussle that is manhattan. As I eagerly await to re-acquaint myself with friends and family for the holidays, I feel I need to comment on the comrie situation. Over the last couple of weeks, there's been many strange, bizarre twists, most of which I've stayed silent about. It's been finals the last three weeks, and honeslty, I just haven't been able to make the kind of solid posts I've wanted to. I felt I should just wait until I got home to really get back on the board. Funny how the night I get home, the big shoe drops. I haven't been on the ground in alberta to get a feel for public opinion(I only have the local media to go off of) and I certainly haven't followed every comment and news brief both sides have given since the start of this. I consider myself somewhat of an outsider in this matter, a position that gives me a somewhat different point of view than most posters on the boards. If any of the mods feel this is not worth a thread on it's own, please amalgamate this into another thread. Anyway, here's how I breakdown the entire situation:

The Trade Itself

One can do nothing but conclude that Lowe failed in his endeavour to get value for comrie. Lowe claimed on more than one occasion his desire to get a deal that helps the oilers for both "now" and in the "future". Uhmm, what happened to that whole "now" part? When one has as an asset such as comrie, a 23 year old 33 goal scorer, their is no excuse to get the return lowe got. Don't get me wrong. Jeff W. is a good young defensmen with a solid upside. The first rounder, although very low, still has value, as does the third. But this means nothing to me, or most fans. Woywitka may become something in the long run. But judging how Semenov has been treated this year, he won't see the lineup by the end of the season unless the oilers truly go to pieces. As for 2004, well no defensmen comes in and contributes greatly in their rookie years. So in effect, Woywitka won't have any large scale impact until at least two season from now. If all breaks well, he won't hit his prime for another 4-5 years. And that's best case scenario. Worst case? Well just look at how long it's taken brewer, look at all the many failed "blue chip" d-men in this league, and look at Mac-t's unimpressive track record with young players. You guys get the drift. Meanwhile comrie, who has proven his ability to score, will be sorrounded with a better supporting cast than he had in Edm, will be one out of a number of stars, and will be just coming into his prime. I look at comrie and see a young jeremy ronick. He may even add an edge to his game...in any event, he's a productive, young, cheap scorer, and he'll help the flyers for a long time. The oilers have nothing to show for him but question marks, and that is unnaceptable.

Wowitka is nothing but a name on a depth chart at this point, and the same can be said for the draft picks. Talk all you want about his upside. Talk all you want about how smooth a skater he is, or how he played on the WJ squad. Those comments, those skills...They don't help us now, and they perhaps never will. When one is trading away a 23 year old 60 point center whose willing to sign for less than 2 million dollars, you have to get better return. I am sorry. Say what you will- that my emotions are getting the best of me, that I am failing to appreciate Lowe's tenable situation- but the edmonton oilers hockey team is no better today than they were yesterday. Lowe clearly failed to help the team improve today, and it's dicey if this trade ever will. When Lowe traded Poti, we got an Nhler back. Ditto for weight, guerin, etc. Why was this time different? I don't know, but if Lowe wasn't given NHL players in return, why not just sit comrie? Why not just wait till the dealine and pull another "york"esque trade? Everyone would love to add a 30 goal scorer at the deadline, and I see no reason why Lowe couldn't of waited, especially when all he was getting was prospects. Oh, but you say..."maybe no NHLers were offered to him"....to that I say, so what. Wait if you don't like the deals. But don't trade away a great young asset for questions marks. I like Woywitka. I like our future. But our team is quickly fading from the playoff picture, and in the comrie debacle, lowe had a markatable asset that he could use to get us viable help now. He didn't. Case closed.

What this whole mess means for this organization

Nobody comes way from this looking good. Not Lowe, not Mac-t, not comrie, not winter, and not the city of edmonton. It's been a black cloud that has taken the focus off where it should be(on the ice) and it's clearly distracted this team. I can remember in the summer, when it all began, how innocent it seemed at the time. Comrie is holding out, maybe for a few days, a week, maybe even two...to get more money probably. That was fine I thought. There's been other holdouts, there's been other disputes. We've dealt with them...I would never have imagined that this would get the way it has. I'm not going to recount the debacle blow by blow, other than to say that Lowe and Mac-t carry much of the burden in this. Comrie had diffeciencies in his game. So to did Poti. So to does Hemsky.

In two years, when we get eliminated from the first round of the playoffs because Lowe has failed to assemble a team with as much talent as our rivals, will hemsky bear the brunt of the blame? Will he be called out for his weak defensive play and his lack of physicality, desptie his enormous skill? Fact of the matter is, player's are rarely, if ever, complete. It's the coaching staff's job to make them that way, as well as the player's own innitative. If he shows an unwillingess to learn or improve, than you have to either move on without him or accept him as he is. I don't think comrie was unwilling to work on his Defense, or was not open to improvement. I don't think calling him out for what was in fact a team loss was the right move. I don't think severing ties with him, locking him out, did any good. Lowe wasn't thinking for the best interests of the club; If he was, he'd have realize that he was allienating the team's number one center and blue chip player. He was thinking of the ride comrie took the oilers for in his first contract, and still feeling the bitter sting at losing in the first round again, lowe needed a scape goat. He fou sure found one.

Mact- as he has also shown with poti, isbister, hemsky, and now even semenov- does not deal all that well with young players weaknesses. Every young player has them. Every young player has the responsibility to improve. But a coach can go along way to help that, and alienating potentially impact players because they have flaws in their game is not the best way to go about that. Mac-t has to accept that players need to be dealt with individually, at that tough love is not always the best option. He is not coaching a veteran team, he is coaching the youngest team in the NHL. What scares me about his coaching is that he's show little ability to mold and improve many of our youngsters. A good coach knows what strings to pull and what strings not to touch, and he also realizes that every player is different and unique, in need each of individual treatment. Mac-t has shown very little ability to do this. Seriously, ask yourself, what young player has substantially improved under mac-t that wasn't already a veteran or close to a veteran already? It's a tough question to asnwer, I know. What happens if Brewer continues to struggle like he has been? What happens if Hemsky hits a wall?

These questions are also important to ask of the organization as a whole. Yes, we amass a lot of young talent. But it's one thing to have young talent and it's a whole other matter to utilize it and shape it. How will we ever get past being a pushover in the west if we can't take our prospects and turn them from young and incomplete players to complete(or as complete as they can be) players in their prime? When they hit a wall, when they struggle, when they argue with the coach...which all young players do at some point or another...are we going to just keep on shipping them out of town? Sometimes shipping them out yields good returns(york), sometimes it doesn't(the futures we got for comrie). We failed with poti and comrie. Brewer and Hemsky are up next. The oilers, under Lowe, have yet to take that leap into contender status. One of the reasons why is how poorly we convert young talent into complete players.

Certainly I dont' want to vindicate the players completely. They need to work hard, play hard, and want to learn. But nobody can argue that Poti wasn't improving in his last month here. Nobody can argue that comrie didn't play very well in his year and a half here after being thrust into the number one center role. How many 21 year old's excell and score 33 goals in their first full year, carrying the weight of the offensive load on a team, and in comrie's case, also trying to fit the shoes of a vanquished leader(weight)? Lecavelier couldn't do it in TB. Neither could Kobasew in Cgy, or Thornton in Bos. Comrie did. Yes he was flawed, but he was far from irreperable. Comrie was certainly thin skined in this matter. But as an organization, Lowe and company have to either deal with that and move on, or face the alternative, which has been this fiasco.

On a more depressing note, the oilers trade strategy continues. Lowe had the upper hand in these dealings, offering the cheap 33 goal scorer, just as he had the upper hand when he was trading carter, ninimma, and weight. Like those trades, he has little immediate impact to show for his returns, and he got essentially nothing but questions marks in return. Say what you want about "market dynamics" and "what team's were offering what", Lowe continues to think down the road. That is fine, but at some point you have to look up and say, I need someone now. I am the controller in this trade, I am the aggressor. And if all they are offering you are un-proven nothings, than don't take it. The oilers have a disconnection in their organizational philosophy...they build and build and build, but they havne't shown they can take those young prospects and turn them into complete players. Lowe has yet to back a bonafide trade in which one can look up and say...wow, he really did get good value. He really did well. I doubt we will ever say that, for keving Lowe is just not that good when it comes to trading. He's had his moments(york), but for the most part, he has rarely gotten fair value for what are very valuable assets.

To close, I feel that, from a purely PR standpoint, this scandal has hurt the oilers incredibly. Lowe will now have to face the wrath of Bryan Murray, whatever form that comes in, and every other GM will be all the more leary of dealing with a GM who goes back on a handshaked aggreement. I don't think what Lowe did to Murray was un-ethical, but it certainly didn't make him look good. Lowe's asking comrie to "pay his way" out of edmonton is now the dubious low point(pardon the PUN) in his tenure as GM. Extorting a player because you can't cut it at the trade table is about as underhanded a thing a GM can do, and Lowe should be ashamed that he ever asked for it, and that it got out in the open. It made him- and by extension, the oilers- look petty, amateurish, and vindictive. I wish comrie the best, and I know he will do well. I wish Woywitka the best, and hope he can add an impact down the road, recognizing he is neither a savior nor a perfect, complete player and that he will indeed struggle, as all young players do. But I would be lying if I didn't say that this has been a most distressing incident in the history of our club. Many underlying issues regarding treatment of young players in relation to our organizational philosophy have been revealed because of this, and they need to be discussed and examined.
Great Post! It bothers me as well that Lowe and MacT seem to shift away from any talent that is marginally difficult to coach in favour of hard working pluggers. They reward Moreau and Staios which is fine but you have to realize at some point that you need talent on your club as well. While I think Moreau and Staios are fine players I struggle to think of games they've single-handedly won for the Oil. With MC and Poti you can list moments where there talent carried us.

HotToddy is offline  
Old
12-17-2003, 06:55 AM
  #3
xauxi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 382
vCash: 500
This is a great post for long time. The most I agree toward MacT's abilities of helping young players progress into impact players. KL has brought the youth in for the Oilers blood, but MacT badly fails to transform a good youth group into an echelon team. I will shift blame toward MacT at this time. Very poor job, MacT.

xauxi is offline  
Old
12-17-2003, 07:01 AM
  #4
dawgbone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,104
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to dawgbone Send a message via MSN to dawgbone
This is a wonderful thread... minus the glaring holes that are prevelant.

i.e. Tom Poti. I guess we will fail to mention the 16000 fans at skyreach booing Poti everytime he touched the puck, because I guess that by no means had any effect on his bad play.

i.e. Mike Comrie. With the exception of after his injury, was developing quite nicely under Mac-T. This whole squabble aside (as we don't know what happened), Comrie can't be considered a failure by any stretch.

i.e. Ales Hemsky. The guy has improved leaps and bounds since the mid point of last season, and has added a lot of elements to his game.

i.e. Raffie Torres. He has done much better than anyone anticipated, and Mac-T has constantly paired him with players that he can succeed with.

Who are Mac-T's "failed" projects? Hmmm... Cleary, Swanson, Pittis... come on now. Name one young player who is worse off because of Mac-T and why!

dawgbone is offline  
Old
12-17-2003, 07:23 AM
  #5
Hemmer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Ethan Moreau for MVP! NOW! VOTE!
Posts: 675
vCash: 500
Ales Hemsky was on the PK last night for cripes... :p

Great post though. Don't agree with the PR scandal bit.

The "handshake" was between Commie, Winter and Murray. Lowe wasn't even there, or involved. He was OFFERED the deal, suggested the cash and told B.M to wait for the Comrie camp to respond.

If ANYTHING...Bryan Murray should be the one with the egg. He was arguably tampering with a player, whose rights belonged to the Oilers, without appropriate permission.

Hemmer is offline  
Old
12-17-2003, 07:57 AM
  #6
The Rage
Registered User
 
The Rage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Stamford Bridge
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,792
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemmer
Ales Hemsky was on the PK last night for cripes... :p

Great post though. Don't agree with the PR scandal bit.

The "handshake" was between Commie, Winter and Murray. Lowe wasn't even there, or involved. He was OFFERED the deal, suggested the cash and told B.M to wait for the Comrie camp to respond.

If ANYTHING...Bryan Murray should be the one with the egg. He was arguably tampering with a player, whose rights belonged to the Oilers, without appropriate permission.
Comrie was/is a restricted free agent, so he can talk to anyone.

The Rage is offline  
Old
12-17-2003, 08:24 AM
  #7
PineJockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: E-Town
Posts: 616
vCash: 500
Quote:
The Trade Itself

One can do nothing but conclude that Lowe failed in his endeavour to get value for comrie. Lowe claimed on more than one occasion his desire to get a deal that helps the oilers for both "now" and in the "future". Uhmm, what happened to that whole "now" part? When one has as an asset such as comrie, a 23 year old 33 goal scorer, their is no excuse to get the return lowe got.
As I mentioned in another post, there were likley no legit players out there since we were dealing from a position of weakness. It doesn't make sense to bring in someone who will play on the third or fourth line. We have lots of decent *cheap* fourth liners. What top-two liners do you believe were available? Second you need to include the Oates signing in the deal since the money we are using to pay him we saved on Comrie. Lowe did help "now" and in the "future" by getting a second line centre and a stud-d prospect. To expect a top two line player for Comrie is simply unrealistic given the current market.

Quote:
Meanwhile comrie, who has proven his ability to score, will be sorrounded with a better supporting cast than he had in Edm, will be one out of a number of stars, and will be just coming into his prime.
Very true, but he also won't be getting nearly the ice-time that he had in Edmonton and so don't expect that his numbers will be the same. Look at Carter's numbers in Edmonton with all of the top line and power-play time, and his numbers in NY.

Quote:
When one is trading away a 23 year old 60 point center whose willing to sign for less than 2 million dollars, you have to get better return.
And here is the crux of the matter. When you have a 23 year old who is willing to sign for less than 2 million dollars anywhere EXCEPT here, it ties Lowe's hands and makes it impossible to get a better return. Basically Comrie shot himself in the foot and shot Lowe in the foot by saying that. I appreciate your emotions, but realistically, what else could be done? Waiting for the trade-deadline hads no guarantees. Who wants a player at the deadline who hasn't played in a single game in a year?

Quote:
What this whole mess means for this organization

Nobody comes way from this looking good. Not Lowe, not Mac-t, not comrie, not winter, and not the city of edmonton. It's been a black cloud that has taken the focus off where it should be(on the ice) and it's clearly distracted this team.
Yet another reason to get a trade done now rather than wait. The distractions would have only increased.

Quote:
I don't think comrie was unwilling to work on his Defense, or was not open to improvement. I don't think calling him out for what was in fact a team loss was the right move.
First, we don't know if this is why Comrie wanted out - pure speculation. Second, I'm sorry, but when you get paid that much money and play that poorly in playoffs you should be accountable. Lowe didn't single out Comrie anymore than many of the other players.

Quote:
On a more depressing note, the oilers trade strategy continues. Lowe had the upper hand in these dealings, offering the cheap 33 goal scorer, just as he had the upper hand when he was trading carter, ninimma, and weight. Like those trades, he has little immediate impact to show for his returns, and he got essentially nothing but questions marks in return.
Please tell me you are kidding about this. Cross, Dvorak, Torres, Isbister for Carter and Niniimaa? Have you watched any of these players this year. Little to show for his returns? Question marks in return? A simply ridiculous statement.

Quote:
Lowe has yet to back a bonafide trade in which one can look up and say...wow, he really did get good value. He really did well.
See above

PineJockey is offline  
Old
12-17-2003, 08:37 AM
  #8
barto
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 2,465
vCash: 500
Quote:
Lowe had the upper hand in these dealings, offering the cheap 33 goal scorer, just as he had the upper hand when he was trading carter, ninimma, and weight. Like those trades, he has little immediate impact to show for his returns, and he got essentially nothing but questions marks in return.
Lowe had the 33-goal scorer from two years ago, who reduced his own trade value by his poor defensive play last year as well as his reaction to whatever the team supposedly 'did' to him, and by not agreeing to a one-year contract to let him play and show his value on the ice, rather than showing his value through his and his agent's actions OFF the ice. How many GMs want a guy like that? apparently some, but not many, and certainly none that were willing to give up a good player off their roster.

I don't see how Lowe had the upper hand in the other deals, *especially* in the Weight deal where Doug limited Lowe's options to two teams.

As for Carter for Dvorak, you couldn't pay me to take back that trade. You think Carter wasn't a question mark? A floater who disappears for long stretches of games? Dvo hasn't quite regained his 30+ goal form, perhaps, but he's a big upgrade over Carter in my opinion. And Carter was about to get arbitration rights and was going to be a messy re-signing from all indications. Awesome move by Lowe, although I didn't realize what a great guy and player Dvorak was at the time.

Niinimaa? Well, how could you not love what he brought to the team over his last 2-3 years? But again, he was approaching a potentially-difficult contract situation, was quite expensive ($3M), and wasn't all that far away from UFA status. To get a blue-chip prospect in Torres (who has already done more so far than many thought he would over the entire season!) AND a question-mark guy like Isbister (still a question mark) was pretty good, too, and I'd be hard-pressed to take that trade back now as well.

Also look at the Hecht deal - definitely for 'futures', but WHAT futures! Stoll looks like a solid player already, with his best years ahead of him yet. Deslauriers is further away, but addressed a need of the organization's for a good young goalie who's looked VERY impressive at his last two camps. Both for Hecht, who arguably didn't want to be here, but at best didn't do much on the ice most of the time. Another good deal in my books.

Don't let your bad feelings about the Comrie deal being handled poorly cloud your take on some of Lowe's great trades.

I think you have some very valid points in there about the organization "always" looking to the future but also having to make sure that they do have a more specific goal, say, for all the pieces to come together fairly soon. I do feel that Lowe's been pretty good at doing things for now AND the future, although you can see there's a small bias towards the future.

For instance, this season he went out a signed Oates. If that's not a NOW move, I don't know what is. This is likely Oates' last season, and it was refreshing to see the club bring in a vet like him for what'll obviously be a very short time.

Don't get me wrong - I'd much rather have had the Mike Comrie from two years ago on the the team than Woywitka & the picks, but since that wasn't possible with the way things went (full reasons still to come out), this was "OK". I also agree that I'd have rather seen Lowe wait for a better deal closer to the deadline, but if you're a team looking to add a guy who's been out since the previous April, maybe you don't count on him to be able to help your team all that much in the stretch run and into the playoffs...

I'm also not convinced that Lowe's done dealing for this year. I think the slump (which may or may not be over!!) has shown him and the coaching staff some things about guys that they may or may not have liked, and he may still make a move. Many of us have been looking at guys like Rita being stuck in the AHL and wondered if he's either going to be traded away or given a chance, and if he's given a chance, it most likely means a warm body on the roster now is moved to make that room.

I'm still happy with Lowe and his plans to build a team better able to compete at the upper level in a couple of years while still making the playoffs NOW (and getting that *slim* chance of getting further like Anaheim).

BTW, welcome back to Alberta!!

Bart

barto is offline  
Old
12-17-2003, 08:43 AM
  #9
barto
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 2,465
vCash: 500
Quote:
I don't think calling him out for what was in fact a team loss was the right move. I don't think severing ties with him, locking him out, did any good. Lowe wasn't thinking for the best interests of the club; If he was, he'd have realize that he was allienating the team's number one center and blue chip player.
Forgot about this one... MAYBE if Comrie was the only name mentioned by Lowe after the playoffs as having underperformed, I could see your point that he was singled out for criticism unfairly. But when he's only one of several (5-6?) names mentioned, and Comrie was looking at himself as perhaps THE key guy on the team, he should have sucked it up and proved Lowe wrong the next season *on the ice*. There are plenty of coaches and GMs around the league that might have been even harsher on the players who didn't step up their play... sounds to me more like Comrie was far too thin-skinned about the comments and forgot that there were other players who also were mentioned. How did they react? Sulking and demanding trades? Doesn't appear that way.

I want Lowe to be able to call a guy on the carpet and expect more from him instead of the guy whining about unfair treatment.

Bart


Last edited by barto: 12-17-2003 at 09:17 AM.
barto is offline  
Old
12-17-2003, 09:09 AM
  #10
mamettt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,053
vCash: 500
To respond....

Quote:
Please tell me you are kidding about this. Cross, Dvorak, Torres, Isbister for Carter and Niniimaa? Have you watched any of these players this year. Little to show for his returns? Question marks in return? A simply ridiculous statement.
Cross is a 5th d-man tied to a long contract. Dvorak has not produced(certainly the off=ice issues have hurt), Isbister ditto for the most part, and we're paying him a lot of money...only torres has made an impact here. Now Isbister may still turn it around, Dvorak as well. But ninimaa is a #1 defensmen and carter, at the time, was our leading scorer. Given the timing of the transaction(effectively hurting our chances to go farther in the playoffs), and the fact that whether isbister or dvorak will ever produce is up in the air, the value we got seems much mroe than it is. If Isbister and Dvorak can play well, then lowe wins it. If not, again the question marks come out negative.

Quote:
.e. Tom Poti. I guess we will fail to mention the 16000 fans at skyreach booing Poti everytime he touched the puck, because I guess that by no means had any effect on his bad play.
Poti played much better in his last month here, and it's up to management and the coach to make a choice that's best for the team, not to base their decisions on the thoughts and feelings of the drunken rabble. Fans change opinions all the time...look at nedved in new york. Two years ago, the guy was booed to no end. Now, nobody gives him grief and he's looked at as one of the rangers best forwards. The fans did affect poti, but that doesn't mean mac-t and co. should have given up on him. It ended happily, as we got a much better player than york, but again we see an inability to deal with a players flaws.

Quote:
.e. Mike Comrie. With the exception of after his injury, was developing quite nicely under Mac-T. This whole squabble aside (as we don't know what happened), Comrie can't be considered a failure by any stretch.
Exactly my point. Comrie responded very well until he then hit a wall(the injury) and incured the wrath of his GM and perhaps(we can only guess from reports) the coach. Point is, instead of dealing with flaws in comrie's game, we alienated him further and further. That is not the mark of good management or coaching, and because of it, we have let another one slip away, with nothing but a minor leaguer and draft picks to show for it.

Quote:
i.e. Ales Hemsky. The guy has improved leaps and bounds since the mid point of last season, and has added a lot of elements to his game.
What happens when he hits a wall, as all youngsters do? What happens when he struggles, coughs up the puck, doesn't play well down the strecth? It's far to early to call him a complete player yet, and it's far to early to make a judgment on our handling of him, other than to say whether we can take him for a soft, skilled forward to a dominant two way winger is yet to be seen. He has to be wiling to learn, but we have to show him more credit than shown comrie, poti, or Jochen Hecth.

Quote:
i.e. Raffie Torres. He has done much better than anyone anticipated, and Mac-T has constantly paired him with players that he can succeed with.
Torres was given ice time to succeed and he's taken it and ran with it. Let's wait and see what mac-t does when he goes 20 games without scoring a goal, when he has a few bad games, or when he begins to show the wear of playing a full NHL campaign. Torres success is more to do with his abilities and skill than mac-t's coaching, and whether or not we can mold him into a complete player is yet to be seen. Also, unlike comrie, hecth, or poti, torres has an edge to his game that endears him to mac-t. This case is yet to be determined, and just like poti and comrie's initial years, the honeymoon is well underway. What happens in the marriage after this is yet to be seen.

Quote:
Who are Mac-T's "failed" projects? Hmmm... Cleary, Swanson, Pittis... come on now. Name one young player who is worse off because of Mac-T and why!
Comrie's demise lies, in part, at the coach. Poti no doubt. Hecth was jerked around quite a bit as well. Rita has been blatantly and dishoneslty ignored in favor of "harder working" but less skilled players. Brewer's honeymoon is over and we'll see what happens if he doesn't turn his game around. Why Semenov was sitting in favor of Scott Ferguson is a move that baffles the mind, and we'll see if semenov gets sent back to the press box for no reason again, further jerking him around.

The fundamental uncertainty with Mac-t is this: Whether or not he can take skilled, yet flawed players and turn them into something, or let his annoyances get the best of him and play less talented, less skilled players in their place, while GM kevin Lowe shops the ones with real talent around. It's one thing to have talent; It's a whole other thing to know how to use it, somthing mac-t has not shown with poti, hecht, rita, etc. Meanwhile the repacable third liner moreau gets a 4 year deal; Cross and the waste of space laraque sit pretty with three year deals.


Last edited by mamettt: 12-17-2003 at 09:14 AM.
mamettt is offline  
Old
12-17-2003, 09:23 AM
  #11
PineJockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: E-Town
Posts: 616
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamettt
Cross is a 5th d-man tied to a long contract. Dvorak has not produced(certainly the off=ice issues have hurt), Isbister ditto for the most part, and we're paying him a lot of money...only torres has made an impact here. Now Isbister may still turn it around, Dvorak as well. But ninimaa is a #1 defensmen and carter, at the time, was our leading scorer. Given the timing of the transaction(effectively hurting our chances to go farther in the playoffs), and the fact that whether isbister or dvorak will ever produce is up in the air, the value we got seems much mroe than it is. If Isbister and Dvorak can play well, then lowe wins it. If not, again the question marks come out negative.
I'm not sure how many games you have seen this year, but to say that Dvorak has not produced is simply untrue. He is fourth on the team in scoring - and scoring aside he has probably been the Oilers best forward this year. Niniimaa was a top 2 defenseman, but isn't anymore. Carter was our top scorer when given all of the playing time in the world and planted on the faceoff circle for powerplay one-timers, but he couldn't create anything on his own. Dvorak clearly makes his linemates better in a way Carter never did. I think if you put up a poll, the majority of fans would not take either of those trades back.

PineJockey is offline  
Old
12-17-2003, 09:51 AM
  #12
dawgbone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,104
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to dawgbone Send a message via MSN to dawgbone
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamettt
Cross is a 5th d-man tied to a long contract. Dvorak has not produced(certainly the off=ice issues have hurt), Isbister ditto for the most part, and we're paying him a lot of money...only torres has made an impact here. Now Isbister may still turn it around, Dvorak as well. But ninimaa is a #1 defensmen and carter, at the time, was our leading scorer. Given the timing of the transaction(effectively hurting our chances to go farther in the playoffs), and the fact that whether isbister or dvorak will ever produce is up in the air, the value we got seems much mroe than it is. If Isbister and Dvorak can play well, then lowe wins it. If not, again the question marks come out negative.
Carter produced as a top line forward. With the emergence of Hemsky, Carter isn't a top line forward on the Oilers, or any other team. Carter also showed <b>no</b> ability to produce when not on the 1st line. You are seriously misjudging the GMs around the league if you don't think they had that figured out. Also, Dvorak has easily been the best Oilers forward in almost every single game he has played... you are hard pressed to find many games where that applied to Carter. Cross may be a 5th defenceman, but Pisa isn't even in the NHL anymore, and Cross's play certainly makes is $1mil contract pretty easy to move. As it stands right now, Cross, Dvorak, Isbister, Torres is certainly worth Carter and Niinima, especially when you factor things in like contracts, age, and arbitration. It isn't always about swapping equal talent.

Quote:
Poti played much better in his last month here, and it's up to management and the coach to make a choice that's best for the team, not to base their decisions on the thoughts and feelings of the drunken rabble. Fans change opinions all the time...look at nedved in new york. Two years ago, the guy was booed to no end. Now, nobody gives him grief and he's looked at as one of the rangers best forwards. The fans did affect poti, but that doesn't mean mac-t and co. should have given up on him. It ended happily, as we got a much better player than york, but again we see an inability to deal with a players flaws.
What flaws didn't they deal with? The coaching staff completely broke down Poti's game in an effort to correct his flaws. It took him over a year to finally start to turn the corner (thanks to a holdout), but progression was being made. The fans weren't going to change their minds on Poti. Lowe and Mac-T made countless pleas through the media to ease off on Poti, as he was starting to play better and better. This opinion wasn't going to change at the start of the next season either. They dealt him, and got something great for it, so this whole point is moot.

Quote:
Exactly my point. Comrie responded very well until he then hit a wall(the injury) and incured the wrath of his GM and perhaps(we can only guess from reports) the coach. Point is, instead of dealing with flaws in comrie's game, we alienated him further and further. That is not the mark of good management or coaching, and because of it, we have let another one slip away, with nothing but a minor leaguer and draft picks to show for it.
Once again, you are assuming you know the actual story, which you don't. Comrie wasn't singled out, he was grouped in with other individuals. Comrie was a key player who didn't do enough in the playoffs. How do you know that the coaching staff wasn't trying to help Comrie out? Unfortunately, he never played with the Oilers again after the ordeal, meaning it is impossible to tell whether the coaching staff could have helped him. Based on what he said in his radio interview, his wanting to leave had nothing to do with the Oilers organization!

Quote:
What happens when he hits a wall, as all youngsters do? What happens when he struggles, coughs up the puck, doesn't play well down the strecth? It's far to early to call him a complete player yet, and it's far to early to make a judgment on our handling of him, other than to say whether we can take him for a soft, skilled forward to a dominant two way winger is yet to be seen. He has to be wiling to learn, but we have to show him more credit than shown comrie, poti, or Jochen Hecth.
So then why are you even talking about him like he is failing? I think Mac-T's handling of him last season was done to perfection. I have no idea what that last comment meant... I mean, Comrie and Hecht were <b>handed</b> positions on the top 2 lines. Comrie was incredible for 2 seasons, then got hurt. Hecht wanted nothing to do with Edmonton the day he got traded there, and it showed all season long, despite the numerous chances he was given.

Quote:
Torres was given ice time to succeed and he's taken it and ran with it. Let's wait and see what mac-t does when he goes 20 games without scoring a goal, when he has a few bad games, or when he begins to show the wear of playing a full NHL campaign. Torres success is more to do with his abilities and skill than mac-t's coaching, and whether or not we can mold him into a complete player is yet to be seen. Also, unlike comrie, hecth, or poti, torres has an edge to his game that endears him to mac-t. This case is yet to be determined, and just like poti and comrie's initial years, the honeymoon is well underway. What happens in the marriage after this is yet to be seen.
Torres, unlike Poti and Comrie, also knows that when the puck isn't going in, you need to do the little things right. Torres went 12 games without a goal, and not once was there a negative word said about his play. For some players, this is already known, for others (i.e. Comrie), they needed a lesson in it first. It isn't about an edge, it is about a willingness to skate your ass back twice as hard when you miss a scoring chance, or to make sure you are finishing your checks, or to make sure you don't let you man loose in the defensive zone. Some players have that in junior, others need to experience it first hand.

Quote:
Comrie's demise lies, in part, at the coach. Poti no doubt. Hecth was jerked around quite a bit as well. Rita has been blatantly and dishoneslty ignored in favor of "harder working" but less skilled players. Brewer's honeymoon is over and we'll see what happens if he doesn't turn his game around. Why Semenov was sitting in favor of Scott Ferguson is a move that baffles the mind, and we'll see if semenov gets sent back to the press box for no reason again, further jerking him around.
Once again, you are assuming Comrie felt slighted by the organization, which he has denied in his interview. Poti, I won't agree with at all, as that can be attributed to the fans (for reasons I stated above). Hecht never wanted to be an Oiler, and played that way. He was given dozens of opportunities, but rarely showed any effort. You have <b>ZERO</b> clue about Rita. That is a fact, because no one who watched him his first month in Toronto this season would have even remotely considered him someone who could help the Oilers. He was passed over in the first callups of the season because there was a player better than him. As for Semenov, as good as he was last season, in the past few games, he has been much better. He is no longer tentative to use his size and strength, plus he is more willing to initiate contact. All these things were absent in the preseason, and I don't think it is a coincidence that he is doing these things now.

Quote:
The fundamental uncertainty with Mac-t is this: Whether or not he can take skilled, yet flawed players and turn them into something, or let his annoyances get the best of him and play less talented, less skilled players in their place, while GM kevin Lowe shops the ones with real talent around. It's one thing to have talent; It's a whole other thing to know how to use it, somthing mac-t has not shown with poti, hecht, rita, etc. Meanwhile the repacable third liner moreau gets a 4 year deal; Cross and the waste of space laraque sit pretty with three year deals.
Once again... you have not shown anything to the contrary that you can't. Your three main examples are Comrie, who wanted out and it had nothing to do with the organization, Poti, who was completely booed out of town with no sign of any possible change, and Hecht, who didn't want to play for the Oilers before he even joined the team. That's three really clear cut examples.

dawgbone is offline  
Old
12-17-2003, 09:53 AM
  #13
The Rage
Registered User
 
The Rage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Stamford Bridge
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,792
vCash: 500
Mammet, you seem to still be looking at the deadline deals from last year's perspective. The fact is, at the present, Niinimaa and Carter are not very good players. Just because they were good before we traded them does not make the deal bad. It's what happens after the trade that counts. And I agree with Barto, you're way off base with Dvorak. I don't know how many Oiler's games you've seen this year, but he and York have been without a doubt the Oiler's top two forwards.

The Rage is offline  
Old
12-17-2003, 10:27 AM
  #14
barto
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 2,465
vCash: 500
I also disagree with the suggestion that signing Moreau to a long-term deal was a bad move by the Oilers. Sure, he's not a 'sexy' (Gah! banish that mental image!!!) player with dazzling offensive talent, but every team needs a meat & potatoes guy like him who busts his hump every night, takes the body, plays solid D, and can be counted on to step up his play when the team needs it. The fact that he signed a long-term deal for quite a bit less than his initial one-year deal makes it a smart move by Lowe.

Hell, even if Lowe decides he doesn't need a guy like that, having him signed to a long-term deal would make him easier to deal anyway.

There were other guys Lowe signed to longer-term deals (York, Brewer) in previous seasons anyway, so that kind of shoots holes in that theory.

Bart

barto is offline  
Old
12-17-2003, 08:17 PM
  #15
tommyb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 85
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by xauxi
This is a great post for long time. The most I agree toward MacT's abilities of helping young players progress into impact players. KL has brought the youth in for the Oilers blood, but MacT badly fails to transform a good youth group into an echelon team. I will shift blame toward MacT at this time. Very poor job, MacT.
I agree ,great post.I echo everything that was said,except that asking for the money made him look bad.It was really no different that a player asking for a signing bonus.We held his rights and were willing to part with them for 2.5 mil.

tommyb is offline  
Old
12-17-2003, 08:57 PM
  #16
theoil
Registered User
 
theoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 9,155
vCash: 500
Welcome home for the holidays Mammettt. I think you should get yourself to a few games and see if you have the same opinion. The Oilers are having trouble primarily because Tommy has lost his game. End of story. PK? Anybody over midget knows that your best pk player has to be your goalie. We're in a position now where we breathe a sigh of relief knowing that our undrafted rookie backup is starting. Dvorak has been our best forward this year with only York being close.

As for the trade. You give the reason yourself why Lowe could no longer wait. It had become a circus. It is possible that Lowe might have controlled that a little better but it was primarily the Comrie camp and the truth is that if he wasn't traded soon he was going to have to leave town or hire security.

As for MacTavish's 'inability' to develop talent. There are things about MacT's coaching that I don't get. (Ferguson???) But MacT is the head coach. The head coach doesn't develop talent, the assistants do. And I would tell you that the fact that a lot of players being hurt and others going into slumps at the same time is not that uncommon with young teams that are being built from the ground up. When your highest paid player has lost it and your second highest player is playing out of position because of a distracting contract hassle then you have got some bumps in the road. Relax, the only real problem this team has is in goal.

I would also mention that in my opinion Lowe has about a 93% approval rating on what transpired and the only thing that could drive it higher would have been to announce that he was going to let Comrie sit for the next 8 years. If you have any faith in the hockey knowledge of the people in this town you might want to think about that.

theoil is offline  
Old
12-18-2003, 09:23 AM
  #17
Master Lok
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 7,026
vCash: 500
I feel your pain Mammett, I really do. I have been an Oiler faithful for over 20 years and have seen many a star leave the Oilers. Comrie and Poti were the youngest, but I like Comrie much more (as a player). That being said, I think your emotions are clouding your judgement. I know finals were just finished as well so I can understand your emotional distress. Ok, take a breath, step back and analyze logically, coldly, UNEMOTIONALLY. Take another breath. In... out.. in... out.

That being said, I have to disagree with everything in your post and pretty much side with Dawgbone. Why?

Lowe's trades have been excellent. Yes, excellent. He has the balls to make unpopular trades by trading away popular players (Carter, Niiniimaa) in order to make the Oilers better ALWAYS with an eye towards the players' age, contract status and money. We cheer for the Edmonton Oil: a small market team. Money always is a consideration to the bottom line. How close a player is to UFA status is always a consideration to the bottom line.

Lowe was coach from 1999-2000 only becoming GM in June 2000 after Sather left. At the same time, MacT was promoted to Head Coach. Y2000 as it were. Mact's record has 93 pts, 93 pts and 92 pts over his three years of coaching. That's pretty good considering the dearth of top end talent on the Oil.

Ok I'm going to start another thread analyzing Lowe's transaction history but I like what I see.

As for MacT: as Dawgbone said, which young kid has failed under his tenure? Comrie blossomed as a first line centre. So has Hemsky. Brewer has been a great addition considering he was dumped by Milbury. Torres, Stoll, have both done well. Horcoff is developing into a roleplayer. Reasoner WENT ON WAIVERS last year and NOT ONE TEAM wanted him. Since then, he has developed into one of the strongest plus/minus players and an effective checking centres for the Oil. Give credit where its due. MacT has been the ONLY NHL head coach for a majority of these guys' careers.

Who else? Poti. He's not exactly tearing it up for the Rangers. Ranger fans consistently hate Poti for his lack of physical presence and inconsistent play: sound familiar? Pittis is not even in the NHL. Swanson I believe was sent down by the Thrashers. Hecht, showed great promise and was GIVEN top two line time by MacT but was really invisible. I remember being so pissed off at such a lacksadaisacal display (I'm still so mad, I can't even spell) by Hecht. He scored 40 points for EDM in 2001. He scored only 26 points over 49 games for Buffalo last year. This year he's only scored 8 points over 26 games. It does not look like Hecht is ever going to be better than a 40 point man, and he is in Buffalo now. Fact is: MacT got as much out of Hecht as anyone in Buffalo is getting.

Last note on Comrie: Normally, trading a 23 year old 25 goal scorer (he scored 30 in his first season, 23 his second... meh) should be able to garner you a live body back. But I would say that there is extenuating circumstances that affect trade value. First one: Comrie wasn't playing. If Comrie had signed an initial 1.6 million one year contract and asked Lowe to trade him during that year, I can almost guarantee you that the return would have been much much better. But he wasn't, so a GM would probably expect at least 2 weeks to a month before Comrie would be up to speed. It could be even longer since Comrie would be joining a new team and a new system. Secondly, the intangibles. You and I both know that Comrie has an incredible desire to win and he has shown it in the past with clutch goal scoring. But this is overshadowed when media reports that he doesn't want to play in Edmonton because he can't take criticism or handle the pressure of playing in his hometown or whatever any number of reasons. What other gm's do see is a "small" 5'9 centre and hear about a whiny sophomore player. This further reduces his value.


Last edited by Master Lok: 12-18-2003 at 10:05 AM.
Master Lok is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:27 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.