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Is Swedish hockey in trouble?

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Old
12-17-2003, 02:41 PM
  #1
Kugel
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Is Swedish hockey in trouble?

i heard rumours before that swedne's hockey program is in trouble. is this true? Canada went through this thing a few years ago and had a big meeting about it, just wondering if it was the same in sweden?

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12-17-2003, 09:40 PM
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Seiza
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True, we're experiencing some problems in the national team. Not that much in the league but that might be on it's way if something doesn't happen soon. Our biggest problem is called Hardy and he's the head coach for the National team.

No serious, our main problem is getting good young players to earn a regular spot on a team roster. We also need to play the same type of hockey trough out all the national teams, from U16 to Tre Kronor. As it is now the juniors are playing ultra defensive and Tre Kronor is trying, it hasn't been working, to play very offensive.

Changes need to be made here and there, it's all up to the Swedish hockey association...

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01-12-2004, 01:18 PM
  #3
Kugel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seiza
True, we're experiencing some problems in the national team. Not that much in the league but that might be on it's way if something doesn't happen soon. Our biggest problem is called Hardy and he's the head coach for the National team.

No serious, our main problem is getting good young players to earn a regular spot on a team roster. We also need to play the same type of hockey trough out all the national teams, from U16 to Tre Kronor. As it is now the juniors are playing ultra defensive and Tre Kronor is trying, it hasn't been working, to play very offensive.

Changes need to be made here and there, it's all up to the Swedish hockey association...
i think sweden is in trouble, besides steen they dont really have any good prospects, and just in case u guys didnt know forsberg, sundin and naslund cant play forever.

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Old
01-12-2004, 01:28 PM
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Predatore
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So you are saying that after the age group 1984 (Steen's age group) there will be no more hockey players from Sweden?
How deep is your knowledge of Swedish prospects born 1986, 1987, 1988 ?
Steen is a very good prospects but quite possibly 4-5 Swedish players will get drafted this summer that are basically on par or even more talented than Steen.

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01-12-2004, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Predatore
So you are saying that after the age group 1984 (Steen's age group) there will be no more hockey players from Sweden?
How deep is your knowledge of Swedish prospects born 1986, 1987, 1988 ?
Steen is a very good prospects but quite possibly 4-5 Swedish players will get drafted this summer that are basically on par or even more talented than Steen.
i have to agree with Predatore. i don't have the first-hand knowledge you guys have, but this draft year is looking pretty bright in my opinion. last year was rough, but it seems like there will be several 1st/2nd round picks this year.

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01-12-2004, 02:06 PM
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If a league has more than 60 foreigners of which only around 20-25 are of considerable talent and the others are players who easily could've been replaced in one way or another by the teams own junior players then the league has some serious problems. And naturally the native league has everything to do with the national team, new youngsters don't get the chance with the big teams in the Elite league since there are mid-low level foreigners that play in "their" spots. Get foreigner restrictions and more youngsters will get playing time on the big team and as they get promoted more youngsters fit on the junior team so it is really a good profit one would get from it. Also the transfer system makes it too hard for a swedish team to get a swedish player from another swedish team, making it cheaper to get a foreigner, change is sorely needed, if the swedes could easier move from team to team within sweden they could progress faster and it would help the national team right away. Just my thoughts about that... I translated an article about swedish hockey jrs and Hardy Nilsson in the Finland board's official translation thread in case you are interested.

 
Old
01-12-2004, 02:32 PM
  #7
Chevy Cheveldae
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A little related to this "junior" thing

When Djurgården coach Niklas Wikegård dressed 41 year old defenceman and assistant coach Robert Nordmark for one game due to injuries a lot of heads were turned, when he later decided that Nordmark would remain on the squad for rest of the season people got worried wondering why he would play such an old guy instead of a junior

But Wikegård said that he's a right-shooter and has tons of excperience, and if i remember it correctly he said something that no junior could take Nordmarks place...

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01-12-2004, 02:33 PM
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I agree a lot with what you say, but disagree in some parts.

First of all, I try to listen as little as possible to Hardy Nilsson. His latest remarks about Finnish players, which by many are considered very racist, tells us a bit about how he is as a coach/person.

As for the foreigners in the SEL I strongly disagree that there are juniors in the SEL teams that could easily replace half the foreigners in the league.

IMO the following ones are the only ones that could be considered average/below average
Erik Kakko
Veli-Pekka Laitinen
Mikko Kuparinen
Mika Niskanen
Tommi Rajamäki
Mika Strömberg
Jyrki Välivaara
Kimmo Vesa (he doesn't start anyway)
Morten Green
Jan Nemecek
Mike Bales (he shares the job)
Mats Trygg

9 of them are defensemen. So could a SEL team just bring up a young defenseman straight from the junior league and replace them? No.
Why not? Because defensemen take much longer time to develop and one thing they really need is strength, something that most defensemen don't have enough of when they are 17-20.

I agree that less foreigners in the league would get us more Swedish quality players, but it would definitely not make the league stronger as whole. This talk about mediocre foreigners in the SEL does not apply anymore IMO. Sure 2-3 seasons ago when Djurgården went on a rampage and signed Juha Joenväärä and David Longstaff for example.. it would have been a case. But then again Djurgården did not even have a junior team at the top level at that time.

If the juniors are good and talented enough, they will play in the SEL.

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01-12-2004, 10:32 PM
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In general, the significance of the lack of success of the Swedish junior teams in terms of production of talented individuals seems to somewhat exaggerated IMO. They still produce good talent, and the main reason for the lack of success has more to do with how that talent functions as a team. I might be wrong (and might be flamed - bring it on...), but it seems to me that many times the Swedish national teams nowadays seem lack a certain 'feel' of a team with a clear game plan and winning attitude (at the team level, not necessarily on individual). Maybe it has something to do with the way juniors are coached on the mental aspects of the game?
Do you people feel that you can clearly distinguish how 'Swedish hockey' translates itself nowadays? Is there a clear national team-concept that the players can identify and take advantage of?

BTW, Hardy's comments (what ever they actually where) were rather blunt and poorly 'expressed' (funny...), but he does have a point IMO.

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Old
01-13-2004, 12:40 AM
  #10
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The difference between now and 10 years ago is that today we are not producing any superstars. I don't think the 4th line on our WJC teams is worse today than 10 years ago. OK, this year it was but the 84' group is very thin. However, the 1st lines are much worse today than 10 years ago. That's the main difference IMO.

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Old
01-13-2004, 04:23 AM
  #11
aonez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Predatore
IMO the following ones are the only ones that could be considered average/below average
Erik Kakko
Veli-Pekka Laitinen
Mikko Kuparinen
Mika Niskanen
Tommi Rajamäki
Mika Strömberg
Jyrki Välivaara
Kimmo Vesa (he doesn't start anyway)
Morten Green
Jan Nemecek
Mike Bales (he shares the job)
Mats Trygg
IMO Jyrki Välivaara has been Linkopings best defender this year.

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Old
01-13-2004, 05:29 AM
  #12
Predatore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aonez
IMO Jyrki Välivaara has been Linkopings best defender this year.
my point exactly
There aren't any poor foreigners in the league any more.
The names I listed there were basically players that are less known but obviously they could be valuable for their respective teams anyway.

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Old
01-13-2004, 12:53 PM
  #13
aonez
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Of course, sorry, didn´t read your post well the first time, but even if theres many foreign defenders this year haven´t we also, happily,this year seen many young Swedish defender made break through?

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Old
01-13-2004, 01:46 PM
  #14
Predatore
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exactly.
Hedman, Fransson, just recently Lorentzon (I hope he will remain with the team for some while). and many d-guys that are getting shifts from time to time.

What makes it even better is that this draft year Sweden has like 8-10 quality defensemen that could all be drafted (not counting those totally unknown 3rd-tier league players that Håkan Anderson (Detroit) will most likely pick up )

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Old
01-13-2004, 11:09 PM
  #15
Seiza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Predatore
What makes it even better is that this draft year Sweden has like 8-10 quality defensemen that could all be drafted (not counting those totally unknown 3rd-tier league players that Håkan Anderson (Detroit) will most likely pick up )
Hehe, Håkan will probably find someone we never heard of and then next season some SEL team will sign that player. Seems like Håkan is the only one in Sweden that actually scout unknown players with potential.

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Old
01-13-2004, 11:52 PM
  #16
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I hope he doesn't go on a rampage drafting every obscure swedish player there is like he did last year. If this continues, 3 years from now 50% of all drafted prospects will be Red Wings property

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