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Old
04-10-2007, 01:53 PM
  #26
Commander Enigma
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I can't say I'd look all that warmly on keeping Theo around. An experienced backup, good chemistry with Budaj, etc. means very little for the $4 million hole it's burning in the salary cap. Hell it means jack squat. There are going to be veteran backups available at a fraction of the cost that fill those needs. $4 million can get you a very solid player, or a couple of good role players, or it can be part of an offer to a top flight player. It could easily be the difference between landing someone like Hannan, Smyth, Forsberg, Drury... whoever it may be, and not having the resources to outbid other teams. If they're keeping Theo it suggests to me that the organization doesn't intend to be aggressive in building a team that can compete for the Stanley Cup next season.

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04-10-2007, 01:56 PM
  #27
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I am hoping a team like TB goes out 4 straight in the playoffs and ask for Theo.

FREE THEO please


Abby was already told "GOODBYE" by the Habs. He wants to be a #1? He can't even be a backup.

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04-10-2007, 02:00 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkboy View Post
I can't say I'd look all that warmly on keeping Theo around. An experienced backup, good chemistry with Budaj, etc. means very little for the $4 million hole it's burning in the salary cap. Hell it means jack squat. There are going to be veteran backups available at a fraction of the cost that fill those needs. $4 million can get you a very solid player, or a couple of good role players, or it can be part of an offer to a top flight player. It could easily be the difference between landing someone like Hannan, Smyth, Forsberg, Drury... whoever it may be, and not having the resources to outbid other teams. If they're keeping Theo it suggests to me that the organization doesn't intend to be aggressive in building a team that can compete for the Stanley Cup next season.
For the most part, I agree. The Avs don't necessarily have to spend all of their money this offseason. Wouldn't it be nice to have options around the trade deadline? Theodore's work and relationship with Budaj is admirable, but we are in a salary cap world now. You can't afford to have a 5.3 million cap hit for a backup goaltender.

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04-10-2007, 02:02 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by expatriated_texan View Post
1. Theo has been stellar in the locker room and his buyout would hamper the cap situation next year as well (I think...could be wrong on that but I've heard it enough times to get me to reconsider buying him out.)
For me it's simple math... 4 millon>2 million. The $4 million being saved next season will have greater benefit than the $2 million being lost the following season. While there are no guarantees that the cap will go up, that appears to be the trend, and with it salaries go up, so there may be less you could do with $2 million by 08/09 anyway. I'm not saying it's a no brainer and it's certainly something to consider carefully, but for all the nice things you can say about Theo, none of them are worth not freeing up $4 million next year.

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04-10-2007, 02:03 PM
  #30
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But to dump Theo and pick up someone who would save us a couple mil would be putting all our trust in Budaj. What if he isn't up to the challenge next year?

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04-10-2007, 02:13 PM
  #31
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It also should be noted if Theodore peformes even half averge next year, he MIGHT be tradeable at the deadline should the Avs need the cap room for an addition. Even if for nothing more than a bag of pucks.

AFTER next season if Theo is willing to stick around for 900k, all the better.

And after running over the list of UFA, I don't see the Avs spending enough to require buying out Theodore anyways.

Say(just for example) they sign Smyth(5.5-6), Hannan(4-4.5), one depth forward(1) and maybe another D man(1.5). Only parks you around adding 13.5 million at most, which the Avs should have with the cap increase(say 3 million), letting Turgeon and Breazy go(3.75), the bonus's(3.3 after Sakic's base contract increase), letting people walk(Vannenen), Kono off the books(2.2) and possibly trading Skrastins(2.3) (which IMO, they should) . = roughly 14-15 million freed. Factor in another 1-2 million to the players we re-sign for pay increases and you are about at the cap. (thats not accounting for Klee, Svatos, and one or two other players who I don't know what to expect from, may keep them may not, which may negate the need for extra depth forward and/or D man, plus at least one minor leaguer is expected to make the roster based on history)


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04-10-2007, 02:33 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkboy View Post
For me it's simple math... 4 millon>2 million. The $4 million being saved next season will have greater benefit than the $2 million being lost the following season. While there are no guarantees that the cap will go up, that appears to be the trend, and with it salaries go up, so there may be less you could do with $2 million by 08/09 anyway. I'm not saying it's a no brainer and it's certainly something to consider carefully, but for all the nice things you can say about Theo, none of them are worth not freeing up $4 million next year.
But the problem I have with your line of thinking is that it appears you are assuming we are targeting more than one top level talent via FA this summer. I don't happen to believe there is a lot of top level talent available and what little there is is going to come at a price we can already afford (even if we over-pay for it.)

Do you think we need two big splashes? I believe we need a big, tough #1 d-man who plays defense. Outside of that I'm pretty darn happy with our team. Especially if it gets healthy over the summer (i.e., Leo and Svatos.)

If you are suggesting we need to jettison Theo for cash this summer I'd like to hear specifically what players you want replaced. Lappy? Guite? Who? It's one thing to say we need better players but it's a whole other thing to say which players need to go to find room for the new improvements.

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04-10-2007, 02:53 PM
  #33
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agreed, the money is gonna be needed more NEXT offseason than THIS offseason... when the Avs have to come to terms with Clark, Liles, (possibly) Skrastins, Wolski, Bruno, Lappy, and any other players I am missing. That money we have to give Theo that year if we buy him out may be needed to keep the roster at that point.

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04-10-2007, 03:12 PM
  #34
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I think assuming Budaj can come in and play well as a starter over a full season w/o a good backup is a pipe dream. He wasnt that consistent this year and no one knows if he can handle 60-70 games playing at a high level. They need to keep a backup that has the ability to start 5+ games in a row if Budaj craps the bed or gets hurt. This guy also needs to be a good team player and realize he's not gonna steal away the starting job and be happy with his 15-20 games a season. Also being a vet who has been a starter before will help groom Budaj into a better goalie in the long term.

Theodore is an ideal guy if he wasnt so damned expensive, but if you buy him out you still need to bring in a backup who can start quite a few games if need be and will be good in the lockerroom and not cause a stink trying to steal the show from Budaj. I dont think there are many guys who fit that bill and any of them that do would likely cost in the 1.5 million dollar range.

Keeping Theodore wont hurt the team that much.

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04-10-2007, 03:15 PM
  #35
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Would anybody here want to resign Theo (Im just asking with all the comments here which indicate that people wouldnt mind him here staying, if he cost 4 times less)?

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04-10-2007, 03:42 PM
  #36
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I think the buyout option is the best but, then again, I understand why management/ownership would be unwilling to do it. It is, from a financial standpoint, giving someone a lot of money to NOT play for you. The insane amount of money Detroit, for example, paid Hatcher, Whitney, and McCarty to get under the cap could have bankrupted other franchises.

I am confident that Budaj has come into his own and is ready to handle the #1 role. But it can never hurt to have a strong back-up or someone who is established and can challenge Budaj for the top spot. Theodore simply makes too much to be a back-up. I appreciate his attitude and his accountability for his demotion but, at the same time, the Avs could still use the cap savings.

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04-10-2007, 03:54 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jori View Post
For the most part, I agree. The Avs don't necessarily have to spend all of their money this offseason. Wouldn't it be nice to have options around the trade deadline? Theodore's work and relationship with Budaj is admirable, but we are in a salary cap world now. You can't afford to have a 5.3 million cap hit for a backup goaltender.
Jori, I'm not surprised the Avs have seriously considered keeping Theo. There might not be a better option, at backup, from the UFAs available. This issue of keeping Theo has recently crept into my mind as I feel he still has the potential to succeed...which is important since Budaj might still falter. I also think we can now afford Jose's salary for a season.

It looks like we're going to have between 12 - 13 M in cap room anyway (assuming the rest of our roster signs for a similar amount of money and that the cap goes to 50 M as anticipated). I'm fine with that. It's enough to land a couple of coveted UFAs. If Theo needs to be bought out, it can be done later on. I also don't think getting rid of Theodore is that pressing an issue now that Budaj appears to have solidified our goaltending.

Finally, the Avs will finally rid themselves of Theodore's salary when it matters most...during next off-season when some better UFAs are potentially available.

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04-10-2007, 04:07 PM
  #38
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I'm not advocating buying out Theodore and having Tyler Weiman backup Budaj next season. Obviously, they'll need to bring in a veteran backup and those types of players will be available in the summer.

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04-10-2007, 04:12 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drury_Sakic View Post
agreed, the money is gonna be needed more NEXT offseason than THIS offseason... when the Avs have to come to terms with Clark, Liles, (possibly) Skrastins, Wolski, Bruno, Lappy, and any other players I am missing. That money we have to give Theo that year if we buy him out may be needed to keep the roster at that point.
Skrastins is under contract through 08-09. I wont be crying if Brett Clark is let go next summer. Eventually guys like Lappy and Bruno will be replaced by younger and cheaper guys. With the cap going up, I doubt that two million dollars will hinder the Avs next offseason, but I'll certainly be happy to admit that I'm wrong.

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04-10-2007, 04:13 PM
  #40
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I think there is always the potential that other options could present themselves.

Maybe the 'given' of Peter Budaj is not necessarily a 'given'.

I don't think it's wise for any GM to take themselves out of the market for anything.

Maybe Colorado will continue the pursuit of a proven number 1.

Just some food for thought.

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04-10-2007, 04:18 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman Tanner View Post
I think there is always the potential that other options could present themselves.

Maybe the 'given' of Peter Budaj is not necessarily a 'given'.

I don't think it's wise for any GM to take themselves out of the market for anything.

Maybe Colorado will continue the pursuit of a proven number 1.

Just some food for thought.
Great points. If the Avs don't think Budaj is a number one goaltender, then they definately wont keep Theodore as they'll need the cap space to bring in somebody else. There are all kinds of directions in which they can go.

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04-10-2007, 04:18 PM
  #42
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I'm not advocating buying out Theodore and having Tyler Weiman backup Budaj next season. Obviously, they'll need to bring in a veteran backup and those types of players will be available in the summer.
I don't know if there's a veteran backup who's capable, or young enough, to lead a team if Budaj falters. That doesn't mean that Theodore can do it, but he's probably got more potential than any veteran (exckuding starters) out there. In an ideal world, I'd like Backstrom. But, what are the chances?

I'm also beginning to have doubts about Kroenke willing to spend as much considering the diminished income from the Avalanche this year. I don't think he'd be keen on buying out Theodore and then usuing the available cap space to get another player (potentially). It might be cheaper for him to just keep Theodore.


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04-10-2007, 04:22 PM
  #43
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We would all love to be in the position of Anaheim or San Jose, but that's not the position the Avs are in. It's clear that Theodore isn't the answer. There are no guarantees anybody the Avs bring in will be able to handle the work load if Budaj falters. What we do know is that Theodore can't do it. IMO, they should cut the cord, but it wouldn't surprise me to see them keep him.

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04-10-2007, 04:26 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Roman Tanner View Post
I think there is always the potential that other options could present themselves.

Maybe the 'given' of Peter Budaj is not necessarily a 'given'.

I don't think it's wise for any GM to take themselves out of the market for anything.

Maybe Colorado will continue the pursuit of a proven number 1.

Just some food for thought.
There's not many quality goalies available. The bidding war for them could be quite high. I also think that because you can buy out Theodore later in the off-season, the options are still open. If JS Giguere wants to sign with us, then first buy-out Theodore.

If we can trade for an elite goalie, it'll most likely happen at the draft when Theodore can be bought out. With the cap going up, the Avs should have enough flexibility to make some trades. But, it would be nice to have Theodore's cap space available should the Avs decide to make a mid-season trade as the Sharks did with Thornton.

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04-10-2007, 04:31 PM
  #45
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But the problem I have with your line of thinking is that it appears you are assuming we are targeting more than one top level talent via FA this summer. I don't happen to believe there is a lot of top level talent available and what little there is is going to come at a price we can already afford (even if we over-pay for it.)

Do you think we need two big splashes? I believe we need a big, tough #1 d-man who plays defense. Outside of that I'm pretty darn happy with our team. Especially if it gets healthy over the summer (i.e., Leo and Svatos.)

If you are suggesting we need to jettison Theo for cash this summer I'd like to hear specifically what players you want replaced. Lappy? Guite? Who? It's one thing to say we need better players but it's a whole other thing to say which players need to go to find room for the new improvements.
I want the $4 million available to make improvements, nothing more. I don't think I need to have a master plan as to exactly how that money is spent and who on to have that opinion. I agree that adding a shut down defensemen is a top priority, and maybe a face-off specialist and defense-minded forwards, but I don't necessarily think that alone guarantees the Avs would be a team ready to contend for the Cup. It's about options. I realize having the $4 million available does not guarantee improvements and I probably overstated the cost of having Theodore around. But having Theodore around does nothing. And this is not an endorsement that Budaj is definitely ready to take on the #1 role as others seem to think it is. It is an expression that having Theodore on the roster does nothing to provide an insurance policy or saftey net. I think the Avs can get what Theodore would provide next season at a fraction of the cost, and more significantly, have the opportunity to do something better with the money than keeping Theo with it.

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04-10-2007, 04:39 PM
  #46
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We would all love to be in the position of Anaheim or San Jose, but that's not the position the Avs are in. It's clear that Theodore isn't the answer. There are no guarantees anybody the Avs bring in will be able to handle the work load if Budaj falters. What we do know is that Theodore can't do it. IMO, they should cut the cord, but it wouldn't surprise me to see them keep him.
I think the Avs (as do I) believe that Theodore can still get it done. He's mentally fragile and small. It's not likely that he can succeed. But, I've watched him during practices and have been impressed with his abilities down low. He also had one successful playoff series with the Avs.

However, I also don't think that Giguere will lay out his cards, regarding Theodore, just yet. Part of what he says has to be GM-talk because you wouldn't want other teams to realize that Colorado could want a goalie (starter or backup). It might influence how they make decisions about their goalies. For instance, I think that the Wild would be less inclined to let Backstrom go if they think he's got a good chance of going to the Avalanche. There's no rush to get rid of Theodore just yet. Let's see how the off-season unfolds. Then we can more seriously contemplate buying out Theodore.


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04-10-2007, 05:45 PM
  #47
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He's small.
See Jeff Lerg
http://nmsn.foxsports.com/nhl/story/6650334

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04-10-2007, 05:59 PM
  #48
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You guys want Aebischer back? Don't blame Theo, he was at his prime a few seasons back, hopefully for you guys he'll get back into his groove

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04-10-2007, 06:10 PM
  #49
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One good thing about keeping Theodore is he will give us 8 solid games against the Nucks at least...

If we do dump Theodore, who do we pick up via UFA or Trade? UFA market is a crap shoot of goalies that I would not trust defending a 1x1 box outside of Giggy and is there a goalie that could be had in a trade thats worth getting that will not cost the farm in a trade?


Speaking of Giguere, could the Avs try to swipe him from the Ducks? (in which case they DO buy out Theodore) Not saying I am in favor of it, but is it in the relm of possibility?

He had great numbers this year and has shown he can take a team on a run, but he also played behind what was one of the best d cores in the NHL this year(Pronger, Nieds, Beauchemin, O'Donnell, and a smattering of others)

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04-10-2007, 08:58 PM
  #50
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Nice email CHF

Listening to the Avs recap show on AM 950 The Fan right now. Frei finally got the buyout cap numbers correct for Theodore. Kudos to you Terry, but Frei doesn't think Theodore will be bought out. He feels the Avs are happy with his attitude and work ethic. He wouldn't be surprised if the Avs go either way, but his feeling is that he'll be kept and those were my feelings after listening to Giguere the last couple of days. I hope a credible backup becomes available in the summer and the Avs cut the cord, but it looks as if we'll be stuck for one more season.

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