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Old
04-11-2007, 09:50 AM
  #76
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This whole situation is so similar to the Cutler/Plummer situation it's not funny.

Maybe Theo will retire to go join the Peace Corps or something

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04-11-2007, 10:03 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Paul755 View Post
This whole situation is so similar to the Cutler/Plummer situation it's not funny.

Maybe Theo will retire to go join the Peace Corps or something
Or the Propecia Corps.

It's hard to believe that as much a potential albatross as Theo's acquisition was, it's actually worse than I thought. There doesn't appear to be an easy way out, and while I respect the kind of teammate Theodore has been, I still don't know if I trust his skills, especially when he doesn't figure to get much playing time to keep him sharp. I'm almost positive he'd be a lot better if he played more.

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04-11-2007, 11:09 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by avalanchuck View Post
I think it'll come down to what costs Stan Kroenke the least... cap numbers aside... remember he was unwilling to pay the luxury tax after the Allen Iverson trade with the Nuggets. What makes anyone think that he'd be willing to payoff Theo and then pay for another back up?
The Nuggets will be deep into the luxury tax by next season (when Melo's max extension kicks in), but at least part of the motivation for trading Boykins was to stay under the LT limit this year... yet there were plenty of other reasons for that trade as well. Kroenke is willing to spend... the AI deal wouldn't have gone down if he wasn't... but he wants to spend somewhat responsibly, I suppose (as opposed to spending like the Knicks). And he's shown he's been willing to spend on the Avs in the past. They've spent up to the cap limit the two years of the cap era.

But your point is valid, even though it saves cap space Kroenke will wind up paying more. He's hands off with the Avs and will pretty much leave things up to management. I suppose the FO would have to convince him that buying Theo out is an important move in helping the Avs return to the playoffs and get all that revenue from playoff ticket sales. If he were to question why Theo was acquired in the first place, I would suggest they clear their throats and make it sound like "Kenyon Martin".

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04-11-2007, 11:35 AM
  #79
12# Peter Bondra
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Originally Posted by jaisen73 View Post
I think the buyout option is the best but, then again, I understand why management/ownership would be unwilling to do it. It is, from a financial standpoint, giving someone a lot of money to NOT play for you. The insane amount of money Detroit, for example, paid Hatcher, Whitney, and McCarty to get under the cap could have bankrupted other franchises.

I am confident that Budaj has come into his own and is ready to handle the #1 role. But it can never hurt to have a strong back-up or someone who is established and can challenge Budaj for the top spot. Theodore simply makes too much to be a back-up. I appreciate his attitude and his accountability for his demotion but, at the same time, the Avs could still use the cap savings.
It didnt, but those buy outs didnt count against the cap.

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04-11-2007, 12:00 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jori View Post
For the most part, I agree. The Avs don't necessarily have to spend all of their money this offseason.
This is a key sentence right here, and it shouldn't be understated WRT free agency in general. Just because we have the money, we should not go and overspend just for the sake of it. FG was very shrewd in his acquisitions last season, and I'd hate to see that change this summer (unless he gets the 'stud' we're all after)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drury_Sakic View Post
It also should be noted if Theodore peformes even half averge next year, he MIGHT be tradeable at the deadline should the Avs need the cap room for an addition. Even if for nothing more than a bag of pucks.
Excellent point. He'd be a very attractive trade option for some teams if he plays well in a backup role, because he would be a rent-a-player.


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Originally Posted by 12# Peter Bondra View Post
Would anybody here want to resign Theo (Im just asking with all the comments here which indicate that people wouldnt mind him here staying, if he cost 4 times less)?
Absolutely. If, at the end of his current deal, we could get him for around $1.5mil I'd do it in a heartbeat. Assuming the situation (locker room, performance etc) remains the same as it has been in 2007, it makes goaltending a non-issue, for a change.
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Originally Posted by Jori View Post
I'm not advocating buying out Theodore and having Tyler Weiman backup Budaj next season. Obviously, they'll need to bring in a veteran backup and those types of players will be available in the summer.
And here's the thing: We're already paying Theo $4million if we buy him out. If we go out and get one of these "veteran backups" next season we're paying at LEAST the difference between the buyout price and his cap hit if we kept him. So from a cap standpoint, we're no better off. I'd also argue that talent-wise, we're probably worse off, as I don't see too many backups with Theo's experience floating around. Right now we know what we have with theo as a backup and it seems to be a good thing. Why change it for a negligible financial benefit?

The real area where this will be felt is the season following, when we still have $2mil of Theo going to the cap. Remember, you'd still have this backup that we sign this summer making approx $1.5 mil, but in reality if you factor in the $2 million buyout hit, we're paying $3.5 million for a backup. Then we look like fools because we next offseason we could have either re-signed Theo at a much better price, or just gone out and gotten a backup without taking that $2million hit.

I just don't think it's wise to tie up that money when it's unnecessary. $2 million is enough to get that role player that can put your team over the top. IMO the Avs with the right moves this offseason will certainly get back to the playoffs next season (and when you're in, anything can happen), and then with the right moves again we are bona-fide contenders the season after. The other reality of the salary cap world is that it invites the 'quick fix', which I do not believe is the right move for this team.

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Old
04-11-2007, 12:43 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by xalcyx View Post
And here's the thing: We're already paying Theo $4million if we buy him out. If we go out and get one of these "veteran backups" next season we're paying at LEAST the difference between the buyout price and his cap hit if we kept him. So from a cap standpoint, we're no better off.
I don't understand this part of your post. For next year, under a buyout scenario, his cap hit would be $1.33M. If we sign a veteran backup for, say, $1.5M, that's $2.83M total cap hit, far less than the $5.33M hit next year if we keep him ($2.5M less). For next year specifically, how are we no better off from a cap standpoint?


Quote:
Originally Posted by xalcyx View Post
The real area where this will be felt is the season following, when we still have $2mil of Theo going to the cap.
Here I agree with you. The $2M in dead space the following year (2008-09) is the real sticking point for the buyout scenario. And that's the tradeoff that they have to decide on. It basically boils down to a choice between losing some extra cap space next year (probably a couple million, give or take a bit) or the year after ($2M).

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04-11-2007, 03:58 PM
  #82
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I wonder what the NHL is projecting for revenue growth a year from now(i.e. will the cap go up by another 3-4 million) If the answer is yes, it makes it a bit easier to buy out Theodore now and not worry too much about that 2 million next year..... but if the cap is projected to stay close to the same(growing or shrinking by 1 mill or less, you gotta keep Theo...

I wonder how much cash the NHL is expecting the new Uni's to bring in?

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Old
04-11-2007, 08:55 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoradoHockeyFan View Post
I don't understand this part of your post. For next year, under a buyout scenario, his cap hit would be $1.33M. If we sign a veteran backup for, say, $1.5M, that's $2.83M total cap hit, far less than the $5.33M hit next year if we keep him ($2.5M less). For next year specifically, how are we no better off from a cap standpoint?
I guess I was under the false impression (from posts in this thread) that the hit on a Theo buyout was $4mil next season, hence the basis of my argument.

If your numbers are the correct numbers then, it changes things slightly, but IMO we know what we have right now with theo and Budaj. I see the only motivation for buying him out being if the money we save gets us THE player that can put us over the hump. With the amount of cap room we have, I see that as being unlikely. I still say the major impact with the buyout would be felt in 08/09, whether positive or negative. I still say I'd rather have the money to spend then, knowing that after one more season this team will likely be primed for a deep playoff run, and I'd rather have the extra money for some wiggle room then.

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Old
04-11-2007, 09:17 PM
  #84
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I know it was discussed at length at one point, but don't we avoid the cap hit altogether on Theo if we send him down?

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04-11-2007, 09:22 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
I know it was discussed at length at one point, but don't we avoid the cap hit altogether on Theo if we send him down?
Yes

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04-11-2007, 10:06 PM
  #86
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They could send him down but you really don't want to do that unless you feel you absolutely have to. It sends a terrible message to free agents that might sign with your club.

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04-11-2007, 10:10 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by xalcyx View Post
I guess I was under the false impression (from posts in this thread) that the hit on a Theo buyout was $4mil next season, hence the basis of my argument.

Yeah, Pori(Jori) has been working hard to correct that notion...


its split over two seasons 1.33 then 2million cap hit (right Pori ?)


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Old
04-11-2007, 10:15 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Drury_Sakic View Post
Yeah, Pori(Jori) has been working hard to correct that notion...


its split over two seasons 1.33 then 2million cap hit (right Pori ?)

Keep laughing funny man

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Old
04-11-2007, 11:03 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by xalcyx View Post
I guess I was under the false impression (from posts in this thread) that the hit on a Theo buyout was $4mil next season, hence the basis of my argument.
Given the number of times this has been corrected recently (mostly by Jori), I'm surprised that was even still possible.

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04-11-2007, 11:18 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by ColoradoHockeyFan View Post
Given the number of times this has been corrected recently (mostly by Jori), I'm surprised that was even still possible.
In all honesty I usually just skim through a lot of that stuff, and I don't participate in too many of these sorts of discussions. My point stands

We may want to edit the original post in this thread then.

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04-11-2007, 11:39 PM
  #91
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So who else would like it if we could sign Backstrom (and buy out Theo)? Watching him in this game... wow.

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04-11-2007, 11:45 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaisen73 View Post
They could send him down but you really don't want to do that unless you feel you absolutely have to. It sends a terrible message to free agents that might sign with your club.
i dont know about that, it didnt stop ufas from signing in bos, nj, pitts etc.

players go for the money, the teams chances, city etc. i dont think they worry about previous players not living up to potential and getting the boot to the minors. they just worry whats best for them at that particular moment.

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04-11-2007, 11:48 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by ColoradoHockeyFan View Post
So who else would like it if we could sign Backstrom (and buy out Theo)? Watching him in this game... wow.
IMO signing Backstrom would just lead to another goalie controversy.

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04-12-2007, 12:30 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by hekic42 View Post
IMO signing Backstrom would just lead to another goalie controversy.
But this time it could be with two good goaltenders.

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04-12-2007, 12:43 AM
  #95
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But this time it could be with two good goaltenders.
Touche

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Old
04-12-2007, 10:32 AM
  #96
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Theodore must go...any reasonable minded GM would not take a cap hit on a backup of close to 6 million for 2 seasons. He will never start on this team again and all the cap space he is taking up is dead space too.

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04-12-2007, 11:33 AM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose'sMullet View Post
Theodore must go...any reasonable minded GM would not take a cap hit on a backup of close to 6 million for 2 seasons. He will never start on this team again and all the cap space he is taking up is dead space too.
Well just as well we don't have to take it for two more seasons then isn't it.

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04-12-2007, 12:57 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Melrose'sMullet View Post
Theodore must go...any reasonable minded GM would not take a cap hit on a backup of close to 6 million for 2 seasons. He will never start on this team again and all the cap space he is taking up is dead space too.
If we are looking for short-team help, definately. But I'm bit worried, that those 2 million per season would be too much long-term. We will need all the cap-space possible going to 2008-09 season. Liles, Leopold, Svatos etc.. We'll need to sign all those guys.

after one season we can get rid of him for FREE.

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04-12-2007, 12:59 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Colorado Avalanche View Post
If we are looking for short-team help, definately. But I'm bit worried, that those 2 million per season would be too much long-term. We will need all the cap-space possible going to 2008-09 season. Liles, Leopold, Svatos etc.. We'll need to sign all those guys.

after one season we can get rid of him for FREE.

Not to mention the cap COULD go down or stay the same.... bigger risk in buying him out than keeping him IMO.

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Old
04-12-2007, 01:03 PM
  #100
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Good point. I think we should just keep him. He's still at least decent backup if nothing more. In best case Theodore plays decently and we can trade him for something at trade deadline, who knows.

And if you look at other teams, we are not paying much more to our goalies than they are. 5,33 million for theo and 0,7 budaj. Check out other teams, they are paying about the same to their goalies overall. We just have #1 making less money

Whoever gave Budaj 3 year extension is an genious.

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