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Old
12-17-2003, 04:36 PM
  #1
coyote
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Flames game

Watched the game and was very impressed with the way they all work. Josh Green gets called up and he gets 18 minutes of ice time plus time on special teams. Looking at the game sheet almost every player got some time on the specialty teams and they beat Philly. They all feel part of the team and are contributing and it shows. They are a team not like some others where they bag skate 8 to 10 guys and let the rest of the team; I mean individuals; play ping pong. Where was the captain and alternates who allowed this. If they are true leaders they should have skated with them and the rest of the individuals should have also. Further more I am told that these 8 to 10 players are not part of the special teams that are losing the games for them. As soon as the team in question learns the definition of " TEAM " they will probably do better.

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12-18-2003, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coyote
Watched the game and was very impressed with the way they all work. Josh Green gets called up and he gets 18 minutes of ice time plus time on special teams. Looking at the game sheet almost every player got some time on the specialty teams and they beat Philly. They all feel part of the team and are contributing and it shows. They are a team not like some others where they bag skate 8 to 10 guys and let the rest of the team; I mean individuals; play ping pong. Where was the captain and alternates who allowed this. If they are true leaders they should have skated with them and the rest of the individuals should have also. Further more I am told that these 8 to 10 players are not part of the special teams that are losing the games for them. As soon as the team in question learns the definition of " TEAM " they will probably do better.
it really is amazing what a GOOD coach can do for a team... even one with very little talent.

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Old
12-18-2003, 07:49 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnDemon
it really is amazing what a GOOD coach can do for a team... even one with very little talent.
Agreed-look at Minnesota last year, or conversely, the Rangers over the last few seasons. Coaching could be more important than roster strength...

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Old
12-18-2003, 08:13 AM
  #4
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Too bad for the Oilers players and the Oilers Fans that MacT is still the coach for loooooooong time..... So long.......What can KL do? He tied himself up.
Don Cherry must have been drinking when he said MacT would be a good coach someday.....

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12-18-2003, 08:16 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnDemon
it really is amazing what a GOOD coach can do for a team... even one with very little talent.
It's amazing what the trap can do for a team with very little talent.

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Old
12-18-2003, 08:36 AM
  #6
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It's amazing what the trap can do for a team with very little talent.
Couldn't agree more. If Oilers ever played trap there would be an outcry in the brick sports section. McButterpants started whining last year when Oilers shutout Chicago 1-0 and Chicago only had 11 shots, and they didn't play the trap. Fact is, more tha half the fans and media in this city would rather see a 6-5 loss than a 1-0 or 2-1 win, and thats sad.

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12-18-2003, 08:46 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SerbianEagle
Couldn't agree more. If Oilers ever played trap there would be an outcry in the brick sports section. McButterpants started whining last year when Oilers shutout Chicago 1-0 and Chicago only had 11 shots, and they didn't play the trap. Fact is, more tha half the fans and media in this city would rather see a 6-5 loss than a 1-0 or 2-1 win, and thats sad.
How is it sad?

Do you pay money to see a win, or do you pay money to see entertainment?

I used to be an NHL-*****... I'd watch any game, it didn't matter who. Let my tell you this, I have watched maybe 4 NHL games this year that didn't involve the Oilers, and the reason is I can't stand to watch a lot of the other teams.

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Old
12-18-2003, 09:35 AM
  #8
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I watch the game to see the Oil win, don't care about style or by how many they win or how many they score. its all about winning for me. If it isn't about winning then why play or watch ?

My opinion on this subject may be different due to the fact that i came here from europe where soccer and winning is big. Overthere it doesn't matter how attractive or unattractive a style teams play as long as they win.

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Old
12-18-2003, 09:39 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SerbianEagle
I watch the game to see the Oil win, don't care about style or by how many they win or how many they score. its all about winning for me. If it isn't about winning then why play or watch ?

My opinion on this subject may be different due to the fact that i came here from europe where soccer and winning is big. Overthere it doesn't matter how attractive or unattractive a style teams play as long as they win.
If it was all about winning NJ Devils would get more than 13 000 a game. It is just as much about entertainment as winning. Not every team can win every year. Not every team can be good every year.

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12-18-2003, 09:42 AM
  #10
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The thing is if the Oilers did play the trap they would be one of the most successful teams in hockey. That speed would be lethal if that was the type of system they played.
That being said. Trap and Oiler hockey aren't a part of what this franchise is about.

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Old
12-18-2003, 09:46 AM
  #11
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Originally Posted by Oiltalk
The thing is if the Oilers did play the trap they would be one of the most successful teams in hockey. That speed would be lethal if that was the type of system they played.
That being said. Trap and Oiler hockey aren't a part of what this franchise is about.
One of the best? LOL.

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12-18-2003, 09:47 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CupBound
One of the best? LOL.
If the Flames can do it, anyone can.

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Old
12-18-2003, 09:50 AM
  #13
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Originally Posted by CupBound
One of the best? LOL.
Minnesota was one of the best last year were they not? The Oilers have more natural talent on their roster than that of the Wild. Piece it all together and yes they would be one of the best. Any more rhetorical questions?

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Old
12-18-2003, 10:08 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SerbianEagle
I watch the game to see the Oil win, don't care about style or by how many they win or how many they score. its all about winning for me. If it isn't about winning then why play or watch ?

My opinion on this subject may be different due to the fact that i came here from europe where soccer and winning is big. Overthere it doesn't matter how attractive or unattractive a style teams play as long as they win.
actually the game has a lot to do with style of play in Europe. Notice the difference between the German, English, Italian and Spanish leagues, all have a different style of play yet the fans in those countries enjoy that style of play. It is a very important aspect, besides from a business POV if ur not winning cups/championships it is very assuring if you get a good ROI (return on investment) if you can have the stands full, making profit just because of style of play alone.

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Old
12-18-2003, 10:47 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
It's amazing what the trap can do for a team with very little talent.
Calgary ranks 18th in the league for goals for... and thats with Iginla not producing as expected.

I don't think its fair to say the team has very little talent; granted they arn't up to par with teams like Vancouver or Colorado, but Ottawa doesn't seem to get critisized dispite their lack of guns. Players like Iginla, Saprykin, Gelinas, Conroy, Reinprecht and Saprykin are reasonable top 2 line players.

Regarding speed (in the other thread) Calgary is not a slow team (this season). Donovan is what Marchat was to the Oilers last season. Iginla, Conroy, Gelinas, McAmmond and Saprykin are all known for their speed. The rest of the team isn't bad either. One of the Flames players yesterday called it an "aggressive trap" where they play the trap, but guys like Donovan who are fast put heavy pressure on the opposing teams D, so that they cannot start an effetive breakout, and instead screw up the pass.

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Old
12-18-2003, 10:50 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oiltalk
Minnesota was one of the best last year were they not? The Oilers have more natural talent on their roster than that of the Wild. Piece it all together and yes they would be one of the best. Any more rhetorical questions?
Uhh... thats an awfully interesting way of twisting it. Now if thats the case, imagine how teams like Colorado and Detroit would do if they played the Minnasota trap? Using your own logic against you, that would still mean there would be alot of teams ahead of Edmonton if they all played the trap, since the Oilers arn't exactly the top in terms of natural talent.


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Old
12-18-2003, 10:54 AM
  #17
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thats true the Oilers are not near the top in terms of talent but hopefully 2-3 years later after the CBA war we will be much nearer than we are now. As for the Flames they have made huge strides in the past year and its very encouraging, it would be great for hockey in alberta and western canada if they can make the playoffs with the oilers.

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Old
12-18-2003, 11:25 AM
  #18
Oiltalk
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Originally Posted by Splatman Phanutier
Uhh... thats an awfully interesting way of twisting it. Now if thats the case, imagine how teams like Colorado and Detroit would do if they played the Minnasota trap? Using your own logic against you, that would still mean there would be alot of teams ahead of Edmonton if they all played the trap, since the Oilers arn't exactly the top in terms of natural talent.

Detroit does play a version of the trap. Same can be said about Dallas. The only highly skilled teams that don't use the trap right now are Colorado and Vancouver.

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Old
12-18-2003, 12:40 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oiltalk
Detroit does play a version of the trap. Same can be said about Dallas. The only highly skilled teams that don't use the trap right now are Colorado and Vancouver.
Dallas was definitely trapping when they beat Vancouver 3 - 1 last night! The last game Edmonton lost to Minny 1 - 0 had great entertainment value period. For the Minny fans winning made it and exceptional game to watch because they won!!!

Winning matters in professional sports. Ask bar owners, when the hometeam wins people spend more money! Lossing with style is still losing and losing can make fans feel like losers and after a while the loser association becomes a really big loser turn-off.

Now winning has the opposite effect. I could get stuck right in that winning trap and as long as the winning continued for a while I'd be happy. They don't get good game attendance at New Jersey games because of what the Yankee/Nets decision to screw the Devils unless a local gov't will pick up the cost of a new arena.

Revenues from Cable where hockey fans are forced to buy Yankee and Nets games earn the profits and Steinbenner and the boys get the Devils operational writeoffs. Hockey is a business and this business model must include winning at least half of the time. You look at the real win loss record of the Oilers since they brought in the OT extra point and the Oilers have been net Losers made to appear like Winners.

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Old
12-18-2003, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OYLer
You look at the real win loss record of the Oilers since they brought in the OT extra point and the Oilers have been net Losers made to appear like Winners.
I dunno about that... here are their records by putting the OT losses in the loss column

1999/00 - 32W 34L 16T - 26 RT losses + 8 OT losses
2000/01 - 39W 31L 12T - 28 RT losses + 3 OT losses
2001/02 - 38W 32L 12T - 28 RT losses + 4 OT losses
2002/03 - 36W 35L 11T - 26 RT losses + 9 OT losses

In all that is 145W - 132L - 51T.

Hardly net losers.

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12-18-2003, 07:13 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by dawgbone
How is it sad?

Do you pay money to see a win, or do you pay money to see entertainment?

I used to be an NHL-*****... I'd watch any game, it didn't matter who. Let my tell you this, I have watched maybe 4 NHL games this year that didn't involve the Oilers, and the reason is I can't stand to watch a lot of the other teams.
I was the same way as I would watch almost any game. Now both teams have to play a decent entertaining style or I pass on the non Oilers games. I would rather have a sub par 500 team then a team thats goal is to win 1-0.

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Old
12-18-2003, 07:18 PM
  #22
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you cant possibly tell me right now the oilers are actually playing exciting hockey. i find the canucks and flames(shoot me please) more exciting to watch than this sorry bunch.

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Old
12-18-2003, 07:19 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
It's amazing what the trap can do for a team with very little talent.
You guys make the hockey that the flames play out to be boring.

Uninformed? I think so. The flames play a high energy, up tempo, hard forecheck game. Lately they've been scoring in bunches as well. That does not sound like boring hockey to me.

At least its better than 'Oilers Hockey'.

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Old
12-18-2003, 07:26 PM
  #24
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alright go back to your board. i understand defending your position but let bygones be bygones. i gave the flames credit so just let it go.

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Old
12-18-2003, 07:50 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by SerbianEagle
Couldn't agree more. If Oilers ever played trap there would be an outcry in the brick sports section. McButterpants started whining last year when Oilers shutout Chicago 1-0 and Chicago only had 11 shots, and they didn't play the trap. Fact is, more tha half the fans and media in this city would rather see a 6-5 loss than a 1-0 or 2-1 win, and thats sad.
The one thing that bothers me is the arguments on the Oilers style....I mean I think its crystal clear they have to be better defensively. I was looking at some old stats...check this out.

Okay first off, the 80s Oilers, most talented offensive machine ever right? Of course. Played 'run and gun'? So to speak yes, but lets look at their GA in comparison to the other NHL teams during the 80s.

79-80 19th out of 21 teams in GA
80-81 14th/21
81-82 7th/21
82-83 11th/21
83-84 10th/21
84-85 8th/21
85-86 12th/21
86-87 10th/21
87-88 8th/21
88-89 11th/21
89-90 9th/21

So what does this tell us? IMO it says that even the most offensive team of all-time had to be in the top half in GA compared to the rest of the league to be considered contendors.

So now scoring is down....league wide....its rising and falling is another topic, but with it down right now, lets look at the top 15 defensive GAA teams right now.

NJ - 1.66
Philly - 1.94
StL - 2.11
Minny - 2.13
Calgary - 2.17
TB - 2.18
Ottawa - 2.24
Vancouver - 2.25
Colorado - 2.27
Montreal - 2.28
Dallas - 2.31
Toronto - 2.31
LA - 2.32
SJ - 2.35
Carolina & Detroit - 2.37

Okay so this are the best defensive teams in the league....now check out how many of the score more than 2.75 GPG (pretty good nowadays): Philly, StL, Ottawa, Vancouver, Colorado, LA, Toronto and Detroit.

Now check who the best teams in the league are and teams with the best cup chances, other than NJ (whose forwards DO have chances to score, but really can't finish IMO). Right now Edmonton is tied for 26th in the league with a GAA or 3.00.

Okay so what does this mean?
IMO anyway, this is saying that to be a legit contender or even decent you MUST have a GAA in the top half in the league. That just has proven itself throughout history. Also check out what teams in the league are the most exciting. They are almost all on this list, proving that a low GAA DOES NOT equal boring hockey, it equals WINNING.

Therefore the Oilers need to crack down defensively, I know they can't score lately, but they still get 2.68 per and will start to score again.

I agree Serbian Eagle, saying losing 6-5 is more exciting than winning 2-1 is crap, first off 6-5 means alotta mistakes I'd rather see talent than mistakes. Second WHO LIKES TO SEE THEIR TEAM SCORED ON? Seriously, I'd like a show of hands on this one.


Last edited by kruezer: 12-18-2003 at 07:55 PM.
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