HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Washington Capitals
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Tarik says 07-08 Playoffs or Bust

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-11-2007, 12:31 AM
  #1
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 40,472
vCash: 500
Tarik says 07-08 Playoffs or Bust

The bust being that McPhee gets fired if the Caps fail to make the playoffs this next season and the franchise takes a major hit. Tarik said that a repeatedly in his last online chat session.

Who thinks that is accurate and who thinks its expecting too much?

Personally, my attitude is that if they miss the playoffs next season that I have better things to do with my time. If they don't make significant roster additions this offseason, I may not be buying center ice and may not spend on hockey til I see the Caps winning again. So, I agree with Tarik.

txpd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-11-2007, 12:40 AM
  #2
Chimaera
same ol' Caps
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: La Plata, Maryland
Country: United States
Posts: 21,864
vCash: 600
McPhee himself said that he probably should get fired if they're tanking by January. He labeled this offseason as the most important in his tenure here.




I've said this before, I intend on buying Season tickets, but if they don't make a few significant moves, I doubt I will. This year is make or break. They need to make a push and not be in the basement anymore. I'm ok if they're competitive and in the hunt the whole year, but I don't want any of this AHL plus 3-4 guys who are good crap any longer. Putting Ovechkin next to Kris Freaking Beech and Alexandre Giroux is a crime. If that happens this year, I wouldn't blame him if he wanted to get the heck out of Dodge.

Chimaera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-11-2007, 02:00 AM
  #3
CapitalsCupFantasy
HFBoards Sponsor
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 27,694
vCash: 500
Well....Leonsis is certainly painting himself into a corner. The chances of them making the playoffs is pretty slim unless we see some drastic imports of talent on the blueline and the top-6 forwards (Center/RW). Many here swear that the Caps won't spend on quality players, but that's the only way I see them being able to get the team into contention next season.

If McPhee does get fired, he will likely be able to point at ownership (rightly so), and contend that they didn't want to spend wisely when the time was right and when they did spend it was foolishly on players he never wanted in the first place.

What was Parcell's line about cooking dinner and letting the cook buy the ingredients?

At this time I intend on getting tickets again (the wife and I have too much fun at the games), but if they don't make several impact offseason moves, I will reconsider. I enjoy watching at home almost as much, especially when the on-ice product is below par and I'm not spending $250 a night for tickets, dinner and drinks.

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-11-2007, 03:11 AM
  #4
LadyIce
Registered User
 
LadyIce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: DC
Country: United States
Posts: 3,551
vCash: 500
On WPL, Frank Hanrahan of 980 said the clock is ticking on GMGM and GH and the organization needs to make a big splash to keep the fans around otherwise they could be gone at the end of the season.

TEB said his timeline is, if by January the team isn't playing well/winning, that GMGM and/or Hanlon could be gone.

LadyIce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-11-2007, 07:36 AM
  #5
strungout
Professional Killer
 
strungout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 29,077
vCash: 500
I'll go on record...

If the Caps fail to make the playoffs next season....Mafki will be outta here. Possibly Hanlon as well.

Im a Mafki supporter...but there comes a time when you have to produce after rebuilding. Well...next season is that time.

strungout is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-11-2007, 07:51 AM
  #6
Drake1588
UNATCO
 
Drake1588's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 27,847
vCash: 500
I like McPhee and hope they make the playoffs... but I hope they move heaven and earth to do it without dealing their pick. My faith is dwindling on that score.

Drake1588 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-11-2007, 08:22 AM
  #7
Mothra
Registered User
 
Mothra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 7,365
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
The bust being that McPhee gets fired if the Caps fail to make the playoffs this next season and the franchise takes a major hit. Tarik said that a repeatedly in his last online chat session.

Who thinks that is accurate and who thinks its expecting too much?

Personally, my attitude is that if they miss the playoffs next season that I have better things to do with my time. If they don't make significant roster additions this offseason, I may not be buying center ice and may not spend on hockey til I see the Caps winning again. So, I agree with Tarik.

I agree with both of you

Mothra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-11-2007, 08:33 AM
  #8
The Viking Fury
Registered User
 
The Viking Fury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 12,644
vCash: 500
Keep the pick, sign good free agents, make the playoffs, or GMGM is done.

Trade Klepis for something more useful. The caps don't have time for him anymore.

The Viking Fury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-11-2007, 08:50 AM
  #9
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 40,472
vCash: 500
I am waiting for the "let the young guys develope" section to comment. The Capitals are not going to win without the injection of significant amounts of both ability and experience.

The team has no offensive center(backstrom is not signed, yet), they have a hole at offensive RW, they have a hole for an dominant defensive defenseman and a hole for a defenseman that can provide offense.

The teams lacks experience on offense at every position with the exception of Chris Clark and we all know there are many here that would not want him on the primary offensive units 30 goals or not. The team lacks experience on defense AND in defense in general as their defensive forwards are all young with the exception again of Clark.

For the proper mix of ability and experience to be mixed on the roster, young players currently on the roster will either be demoted or removed from the roster. For instance Gordon, Sutherby, Steckel, Pettinger, & Laich can not all be on the team at the same time and have a defensive forward unit that has the experience to be successful.

The defense corp can not be successful in the short term if they have Morrisonn, Eminger, Schultz, Green, and Jurcina all on the ice together. The lack of experience in and of itself makes that a loser.

Some of these guys need to go and be replaced by players with enough experience that they can make plays when a play is needed and can avoid the game killing young player mistakes.

To win they need to add two quality defenseman with the proper skill sets and with the right experience. Add those two players to Morrisonn, Jurcina plus Erskine at a league minimum role player and you have one roster spot for Schultz, Green and Eminger. With more defensemen in the pipeline and limited space in the system, I could see the team trading two of those three this offseason and keeping one.

Eminger may be a tarnished asset, but Green and Schultz are certainly not. The Caps can package Pettinger, Green, & a draft pick and get a top half of the roster player. Same could be said of Eminger, Laich, & a prospect.

txpd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-11-2007, 09:39 AM
  #10
strungout
Professional Killer
 
strungout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 29,077
vCash: 500
Mafki has the assets (as pointed out by txpd) to make the moves he needs to make to get this team into the playoffs...

He just has to do it.

This is going to be the most important offseason in Capitals history...I honestly believe that.

strungout is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-11-2007, 10:17 AM
  #11
Jasper17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,309
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
I like McPhee and hope they make the playoffs... but I hope they move heaven and earth to do it without dealing their pick. My faith is dwindling on that score.
I don't understand what you think the Caps have to offer teams if they don't move the pick.

The Caps are not trading any of their key young players (Green, Schultz, Fehr, Backstrom). And guys like Sutherby, Laich, Gordon, and other young players who have already solidified spots in the lineup prob won't be moved and even if they were wouldn't get much if anything back.

What else do the Caps have that they will/could move that would get any kind of return?

Jasper17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-11-2007, 10:29 AM
  #12
HSHS
Losing is a disease
 
HSHS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Redondo Beach, Ca
Country: United States
Posts: 17,639
vCash: 500
I don't see it as playoffs or bust. I see it as competing seriously, as in Atl last year. I see nothing from this organization that makes me think that Shultz or Green would be moved. I do not see this organization moving the pick unless its for severe overpayment. I'd see them actually move one of the above dmen before that. #5 will still be top end talent while the above aren't.

I however do agree with the Suts, Petty, Gordon, Laich, Steckel comment from txpd.

I see only one Dman, Backstrom, a vet center, and maybe a vet RW at most added to this team. Either the Dman or center will be a trade. Two UFA including a Nolan type RW and the other non-traded for position.

HSHS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-11-2007, 10:38 AM
  #13
BrooklynCapsFan
Waiting on the Isles
 
BrooklynCapsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 14,571
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by strungout View Post
This is going to be the most important offseason in Capitals history...I honestly believe that.
It's true. The entire point of this exercise has been to build a team that can compete for the Stanley Cup. Something we've never done in our existence. This is the offseason in which we add players from outside the organization to push us to that goal and, more importantly, shed the pieces we don't think will help us to that goal.

If we mess up on either (acquisition or dispossession), what was the point of those 3 years of heartache?

BrooklynCapsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-11-2007, 10:52 AM
  #14
Langway
Moderator
Intangibles
 
Langway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,729
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
The Caps are not trading any of their key young players (Green, Schultz, Fehr, Backstrom). And guys like Sutherby, Laich, Gordon, and other young players who have already solidified spots in the lineup prob won't be moved and even if they were wouldn't get much if anything back.

What else do the Caps have that they will/could move that would get any kind of return?
I don't get why you're so certain on that front. I wouldn't be suprised if one of Green or Schultz was moved, or Fehr if the right situation presented itself. (I'd prefer it was Eminger on his way out but his value is in the crapper right now compared to those two defensemen.) Backstrom I'll give you, for all of the obvious reasons, but I wouldn't be so certain on the other guys. They would bring back more than their first due to them being closer to NHL ready and we all agree that the Caps are too young to win with the current roster anyway. Dealing them makes more sense from a simple numbers (and upside) perspective than their first.

What else do the Caps have to offer? Buffalo's 1st, their 2nd, NYI's 2nd, Chris Bourque, Tomas Fleischmann, Joe Finley, John Erskine, Steve Eminger, Keith Seabrook, Sami Lepisto, Patrick McNeil, Jiri Novotny, Jakub Klepis, Luke Lynes, Matt Stefanishion, Andrew Gordon, Andrew Joudrey, Travis Morin, Oskar Osala, Mathieu Perreault, Francois Bouchard, Michal Neuvirth.

Granted, their first rounder has more value than any of those guys I've listed (as it should, rightfully) but I fear that GMGM will lose net value in dealing the pick for immediate help. That type of deal would help in them in the short-term, no doubt, but could come back to bite them in the ass in the long-run. That's been a temptation they've stayed away from normally but that could very well change this year.

As for playoffs or bust, I don't think it's quite that clear-cut. So long as the offseason moves significantly help improve the team and they are close to making the playoffs then GMGM is probably safe. If the right moves look to have been made in the offseason then Hanlon will be on shakier ground than GMGM. If the Caps then go on to flop out of the gate early in the year then Hanlon could very well get the axe. Significant talent upgrades will likewise up the expectations for Hanlon and if he fails to deliver then he's gone. I'm skeptical of his ability to oversee and devise a consistent winner to be honest.

Langway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-11-2007, 11:10 AM
  #15
HockeyCritter
Registered User
 
HockeyCritter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,656
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimaera View Post
McPhee himself said that he probably should get fired if they're tanking by January. He labeled this offseason as the most important in his tenure here.




I've said this before, I intend on buying Season tickets, but if they don't make a few significant moves, I doubt I will. This year is make or break. They need to make a push and not be in the basement anymore. I'm ok if they're competitive and in the hunt the whole year, but I don't want any of this AHL plus 3-4 guys who are good crap any longer. Putting Ovechkin next to Kris Freaking Beech and Alexandre Giroux is a crime. If that happens this year, I wouldn't blame him if he wanted to get the heck out of Dodge.
Tanking or losing??

If McPhee doesn't significantly upgrade this team this summer, I don’t think he makes it to training camp.

Playoffs or bust --- that's a bit too black and white. What if the team misses the playoffs by one point? Does McPhee get fired then?

HockeyCritter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-11-2007, 11:14 AM
  #16
HockeyCritter
Registered User
 
HockeyCritter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,656
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
I don't understand what you think the Caps have to offer teams if they don't move the pick.

The Caps are not trading any of their key young players (Green, Schultz, Fehr, Backstrom). And guys like Sutherby, Laich, Gordon, and other young players who have already solidified spots in the lineup prob won't be moved and even if they were wouldn't get much if anything back.

What else do the Caps have that they will/could move that would get any kind of return?
I quite disagree with that … I think it very, very likely that the Caps will be trading one of their young prospects/players and that does include the likes of Green, Eminger, Fehr, Fleischmann, Gordon, or Laich.

I think unless you're named Alex or Olie or Backstrom (and maybe Clark) you might want to keep a bag packed, just in case.

HockeyCritter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-11-2007, 11:15 AM
  #17
HSHS
Losing is a disease
 
HSHS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Redondo Beach, Ca
Country: United States
Posts: 17,639
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ididitlangway View Post
I don't get why you're so certain on that front. I wouldn't be suprised if one of Green or Schultz was moved, or Fehr if the right situation presented itself. (I'd prefer it was Eminger on his way out but his value is in the crapper right now compared to those two defensemen.) Backstrom I'll give you, for all of the obvious reasons, but I wouldn't be so certain on the other guys. They would bring back more than their first due to them being closer to NHL ready and we all agree that the Caps are too young to win with the current roster anyway. Dealing them makes more sense from a simple numbers (and upside) perspective than their first.

What else do the Caps have to offer? Buffalo's 1st, their 2nd, NYI's 2nd, Chris Bourque, Tomas Fleischmann, Joe Finley, John Erskine, Steve Eminger, Keith Seabrook, Sami Lepisto, Patrick McNeil, Jiri Novotny, Jakub Klepis, Luke Lynes, Matt Stefanishion, Andrew Gordon, Andrew Joudrey, Travis Morin, Oskar Osala, Mathieu Perreault, Francois Bouchard, Michal Neuvirth.

Granted, their first rounder has more value than any of those guys I've listed (as it should, rightfully) but I fear that GMGM will lose net value in dealing the pick for immediate help. That type of deal would help in them in the short-term, no doubt, but could come back to bite them in the ass in the long-run. That's been a temptation they've stayed away from normally but that could very well change this year.

As for playoffs or bust, I don't think it's quite that clear-cut. So long as the offseason moves significantly help improve the team and they are close to making the playoffs then GMGM is probably safe. If the right moves look to have been made in the offseason then Hanlon will be on shakier ground than GMGM. If the Caps then go on to flop out of the gate early in the year then Hanlon could very well get the axe. Significant talent upgrades will likewise up the expectations for Hanlon and if he fails to deliver then he's gone. I'm skeptical of his ability to oversee and devise a consistent winner to be honest.

Okay I normally don't do this and it does annoy me when others do it but .....

I'm glad that Idit has the time and writing ability to push the point that I've been trying to add in peicemeal in this and the other threads.

HSHS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-11-2007, 11:15 AM
  #18
Chimaera
same ol' Caps
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: La Plata, Maryland
Country: United States
Posts: 21,864
vCash: 600
If the team gets the talent they're talking about, then I think Hanlon's more under the gun than McPhee.


Apologist or otherwise, he has added some ok talent in the system and been relatively successful with piecing together an AHL team to play in the NHL. Last year until injuries and the flu bug took its toll, the team was in a playoff spot. Money and the lack of spending it on a veteran for the room was probably one of the main reasons the wheels started coming off.

We know that McPhee has gotten an ultimatum to keep payroll down. Hanlon's been told to try and build a system and foster the development of young players and on the blue line or up front, has that happened? A few are ready to play in the NHL on a regular basis (Gordon, Laich, Pettinger, Morrisonn) but what else? I'm not saying it is all Hanlon, but I have serious issues with his lack of playing time for players the team is trying to evaluate.

Chimaera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-11-2007, 11:17 AM
  #19
Chimaera
same ol' Caps
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: La Plata, Maryland
Country: United States
Posts: 21,864
vCash: 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyCritter View Post
Tanking or losing??

If McPhee doesn't significantly upgrade this team this summer, I don’t think he makes it to training camp.

Playoffs or bust --- that's a bit too black and white. What if the team misses the playoffs by one point? Does McPhee get fired then?
By tanking, i mean everything going into the tank, going down hill, basically the team playing poorly. (Which you could equate to losing)


If the team is in contention up until the last few weeks, I think McPhee keeps his job. If the team is out of it by January/February, he is gone before that point.

Chimaera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-11-2007, 11:19 AM
  #20
HockeyCritter
Registered User
 
HockeyCritter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,656
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimaera View Post
If the team gets the talent they're talking about, then I think Hanlon's more under the gun than McPhee.


Apologist or otherwise, he has added some ok talent in the system and been relatively successful with piecing together an AHL team to play in the NHL. Last year until injuries and the flu bug took its toll, the team was in a playoff spot. Money and the lack of spending it on a veteran for the room was probably one of the main reasons the wheels started coming off.

We know that McPhee has gotten an ultimatum to keep payroll down. Hanlon's been told to try and build a system and foster the development of young players and on the blue line or up front, has that happened? A few are ready to play in the NHL on a regular basis (Gordon, Laich, Pettinger, Morrisonn) but what else? I'm not saying it is all Hanlon, but I have serious issues with his lack of playing time for players the team is trying to evaluate.
Is that true for this off-season as well?

Everything I've read/heard seems to indicate that the Capitals will be increasing payroll. I mean the Caps aren not going to approach the ceiling, however I think they'll be a lot closer to the middle than the floor.

HockeyCritter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-11-2007, 11:21 AM
  #21
Chimaera
same ol' Caps
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: La Plata, Maryland
Country: United States
Posts: 21,864
vCash: 600
Oh, and they definitely are going to have to move some prospects sooner rather than later.


Why accumulate the stock of players and warm bodies if they're not going to use them to build the Caps? I like Hershey as much as the next guy, but I'm not stupid enough to think that McPhee is stocking his system full of talent to put AHL trophies on his wall. It is a sheer numbers game. They have more players who they think will make it to the NHL and contribute in the pipeline in certain positions (defenseman is one, top 6 LW is stocked with Flash/Semin/Ovechkin and whoever else comes down the road, 3rd-4th line forward/energy guy is another, goalie might be another) At some time the team has to clear out some of their stash or chance losing it to free agency or just sheer neglect.

Chimaera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-11-2007, 11:23 AM
  #22
Chimaera
same ol' Caps
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: La Plata, Maryland
Country: United States
Posts: 21,864
vCash: 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyCritter View Post
Is that true for this off-season as well?

Everything I've read/heard seems to indicate that the Capitals will be increasing payroll. I mean the Caps aren not going to approach the ceiling, however I think they'll be a lot closer to the middle than the floor.
I don't know how much they're looking to spend. I think I'll jump on the magic 8-10 million dollar number, plus whatever else it takes to resign/replace those who left.


As far as referencing the ultimatum to keep payroll down, I was specifically referencing until this year. However, even this year, I highly doubt Leonsis says, here George, go out and spend whatever you want. Though that would be nice to see.

Chimaera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-11-2007, 11:23 AM
  #23
HSHS
Losing is a disease
 
HSHS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Redondo Beach, Ca
Country: United States
Posts: 17,639
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimaera View Post
If the team gets the talent they're talking about, then I think Hanlon's more under the gun than McPhee.


Apologist or otherwise, he has added some ok talent in the system and been relatively successful with piecing together an AHL team to play in the NHL. Last year until injuries and the flu bug took its toll, the team was in a playoff spot. Money and the lack of spending it on a veteran for the room was probably one of the main reasons the wheels started coming off.

We know that McPhee has gotten an ultimatum to keep payroll down. Hanlon's been told to try and build a system and foster the development of young players and on the blue line or up front, has that happened? A few are ready to play in the NHL on a regular basis (Gordon, Laich, Pettinger, Morrisonn) but what else? I'm not saying it is all Hanlon, but I have serious issues with his lack of playing time for players the team is trying to evaluate.
Feels good to say that.... kind of like saying well last year Semin had Beech as his center.

I agree with you a lot about GMGM's and Hanlon's development of players. Hanlon can only coach the players he has.

These I look to GH: Klepis should have gotten more time on the wing including with AO. Flash should have had more time on Semin's left. Heward shouldn't have been the PP pointman leading up to the deadline. Beech should have been 4th line or scratch by Dec.

But GMGM kept Fehr in the minors a little too long to get some development this year. Obviously the injury is no one's fault. Then you add Steckel not coming up til 3-4 games. Hanlon played him exceptionally over the last 3 games.

Still A LOT of positive from LAST season though as far as Semin, Jurcina, Shultz, and Gordon.

HSHS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-11-2007, 11:26 AM
  #24
HockeyCritter
Registered User
 
HockeyCritter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,656
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimaera View Post
I don't know how much they're looking to spend. I think I'll jump on the magic 8-10 million dollar number, plus whatever else it takes to resign/replace those who left.


As far as referencing the ultimatum to keep payroll down, I was specifically referencing until this year. However, even this year, I highly doubt Leonsis says, here George, go out and spend whatever you want. Though that would be nice to see.
Oh I agree, McPhee doesn't have a blank check - yet - however, I do think he'll have more to work with this season when compared to the last few seasons.

HockeyCritter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-11-2007, 11:40 AM
  #25
usiel
HFBoards Sponsor
 
usiel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Malaz City
Country: San Marino
Posts: 9,929
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to usiel
GMGM is on the record for saying that this next season his job is basically on the line...there it is straight from the horses mouth, heh.

Though I don't think missing the playoffs instantly means that GM will get canned. A near miss would probably be enough for him to keep his job a bit longer

Green/Schultz are still on the entry deals so they can spend all next season at Hershey if need be (and that isn't necessarily a bad thing for their dev). I agree with txpd that the capitals can't have all these young players on the team next year and expect to win a ton more games...well I mean it isn't very likely, heh, but stranger things have happened .

__________________
True Story™®©
usiel is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:45 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.