HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Washington Capitals
Notices

Tarik says 07-08 Playoffs or Bust

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-13-2007, 10:34 AM
  #76
Langway
Moderator
Intangibles
 
Langway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,660
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
Well you are right that other defensman hold more value, and that is the exact reason why they won't be moved.

And there is a big difference in the type of players he's looking for, and the type of players your looking for. I don't think McPhee has any intention of bringing in mulitple star players. I think if he can add on major impact player he would be very happy. And the Caps should be able to get a very good player for a package of the 5th overall pick, Eminger, and a player like Flash or a pick.
I'm not quite sure how you can say exactly what type of players McPhee is looking for, that Schultz or Green definitively won't be moved or what certain Caps players are and aren't worth. I'm not saying that I expect All-Star-calibre players back in deals, just more than other teams' castoffs. They might be able to land a second-line center or a capable top 4 defenseman for the package you've listed but why give away those sorts of young assets in a top 5 pick and young, cheap players if you're a couple of years away from being a real competitor? It's a lateral move, at best, contrary to their emphasis of building their core players from within. Note that the only people talking about moving the pick are Tarik and Vogel, while the front office hasn't said one word about the potential of dealing the pick when talking about the draft. I'm not saying it's out of the question (it's on the table) but I think it's being exaggerated that the Caps won't be going up to the podium when the fifth pick rolls around. If the right deal comes along, dealing the pick in a package should be seriously considered, but if not it would behoove them to take the BPA and move forward. With talk that Chicago, Philadelphia and even Columbus may also be looking to shop their pick, that can only diminish the market for the Caps' pick (meaning that the rest of the package will have to be sweetened).

If you move the pick it's because you want to win now and acquire that immediate talent while giving away potentially larger long-term talent. If that's the offseason plan then that should be followed up elsewhere in the offseason's moves. If you give up a top 5 talent and prospects for immediate help then you have to make the other moves necessary to put this club on the fast track for the playoffs next year. Otherwise, it doesn't make any strategic sense.
Quote:
The vet leadership guys he is looking to add prob can be added for picks / mid-level prospects. If he does add a vet winger, than someone will get bumped out of that lineup. But like I said I am not going to hold my breath. If they can add a good defensman and a quality top 6 center this offseason I would be very happy.

Just because McPhee said he wants to add players through trades, doesn't mean he wants to make 2 or 3 big trades. Even if he does want to add a couple vet's to the lineup those guys are not going to cost much in a trade. I would expect the plan to add the vet guys would be more of the Clark/Friesen type moves than anything big.
I don't expect that many big trades but if you're really committed to adding talent via trade rather than free agency this summer then it's not out of the question that two fairly substantial moves are made to land the top priorities of scoring-line center and stabilizer on defense. It's either trade or free agency and GMGM's comments make it clear that trades are preferred. They certainly need it to become a playoff team next year. Half-measures of bringing in other teams' castoffs is just more of the same and unlikely to breed success. GMGM can bring in a castoff for the veteran winger addition but not for the other two positions (unless we're talking about a contract-related castoff like, say, Fedorov). Otherwise, he's toast.


Last edited by Langway: 04-13-2007 at 10:39 AM.
Langway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 10:35 AM
  #77
Jasper17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,309
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by C-A-P-S View Post
Well the thing is there are only so many spots. If they want to add some 2-3 new forwards, whether that be via FA/Trade/Prospect - someone has to go.

If Laich and Suts have no real trade value - or at least a low market value - imagine how much value one will be able to get for Bradley or Clymer.

The bottom line is the team has managed to collect too many prospects that have only turned into 3/4 line guys. Some have to go in order for this team to improve.

That why I point to players like Laich, Suts and Novotny.
And this is where I am confused. Why do you expect them to bring in 2-3 new forwards? I am only expecting 1 maybe 2 forwards from outside the org.

I mean I guess you could say the team will bring in 2-3 new forwards next season if you count Backstrom as one of the new forwards?

Jasper17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 10:49 AM
  #78
Jasper17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,309
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ididitlangway View Post
If you move the pick it's because you want to win now and acquire that immediate talent while giving away potentially larger long-term talent.
Well that is exactly what it has been reported they are trying to do. They want a guy who can come in right away and help this team. And if that is what they are trying to do, than it makes all the sense in the world to deal the 5th pick rather than an NHL ready prospect.

But just because they want a guy that can come in now instead of waiting 2 or 3 years for a draft pick doesn't mean they are switching to win now at all cost's mode. The Caps want to be a better team next year, and certainly want to be a playoff team within the next year or two. And a draft pick isn't going to help that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ididitlangway View Post
I don't expect that many big trades but if you're really committed to adding talent via trade rather than free agency this summer then it's not out of the question that two fairly substantial moves are made to land the top priorities of scoring-line center and stabilizer on defense. It's either trade or free agency and GMGM's comments make it clear that trades are preferred. They certainly need it to become a playoff team next year. Half-measures of bringing in other teams' castoffs is just more of the same and unlikely to breed success. GMGM can bring in a castoff for the veteran winger addition but not for the other two positions (unless we're talking about a contract-related castoff like, say, Fedorov). Otherwise, he's toast.
Well it all depends on how you interpret what McPhee said. He said he would look to free agency first, and then look to trades. I don't think he ever actually said that he favors trades over free agency (maybe this is where I am wrong though).

Now maybe that is what he meant? Or maybe it means he will look to make the best deal he can for the best player he can (defensman or forward) first and then look to get the other need in free agency.

But I think people are getting way ahead of themselves if they expect the 07/08 Washington Capitals to be the finished product of the rebuild.

And carefull when you critize for going along with what Tarik and Vogel are saying. Because so far its only been writers and reporters who are saying its playoffs or bust for the Capitals next season. Because all McPhee and Ted have been saying is that "our goal is to make the playoffs" or "we think we can make the playoffs" or if they are feeling really bold something like "we think we will be a playoff team next season". Which is exactly the same thing they were saying last summer, and the same things just about every owner and GM of a non playoff team say's the summer before any season.

And I should also point out that both McPhee and Ted also put fill team needs from within even before making trades. Ted specifically said he "prefers to promote from within". Which once again leaves me wondering why they would trade guys like Fehr, Green, or Schultz.


Last edited by Jasper17: 04-13-2007 at 10:55 AM.
Jasper17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 11:19 AM
  #79
Langway
Moderator
Intangibles
 
Langway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,660
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
Well that is exactly what it has been reported they are trying to do. They want a guy who can come in right away and help this team. And if that is what they are trying to do, than it makes all the sense in the world to deal the 5th pick rather than an NHL ready prospect.

But just because they want a guy that can come in now instead of waiting 2 or 3 years for a draft pick doesn't mean they are switching to win now at all cost's mode. The Caps want to be a better team next year, and certainly want to be a playoff team within the next year or two. And a draft pick isn't going to help that.
Again, these comments regarding the draft pick have never been made by the front office.

Ted on the draft, in his latest Owner's Corner:
Quote:
Certainly our attention is on the NHL Entry Draft, to be held in Columbus, Ohio, June 22-23. We hold two first-round choices, including the fifth pick overall, and two second-round selections. Many of our recent drafts are beginning to bear fruit, and we’re hoping the Class of ’07 will also be making significant contributions here in Washington in the not-so-distant future.
Quote:
Well it all depends on how you interpret what McPhee said. He said he would look to free agency first, and then look to trades. I don't think he ever actually said that he favors trades over free agency (maybe this is where I am wrong though).
Ted mentions it in his latest Owner's Corner, echoing what GMGM said on WaPo Live a few weeks ago:
Quote:
We are focusing on the free-agency season, which begins July 1. If we are unable to address team needs from within the organization or via the trade route, we will look to fill them with smart free-agent signings. Our preference always will be to promote from within, but if we are unable to do so, we will utilize our collective assets to bring back needed pieces via trades as well as explore the free-agent market. We’ll do our homework and ensure such players fit and contribute to our team chemistry, a key intangible that can’t be underestimated. We’ll also be signing a few of our draft choices and making decisions on some of our own restricted and unrestricted free agents.
Quote:
But I think people are getting way ahead of themselves if they expect the 07/08 Washington Capitals to be the finished product of the rebuild.
That's not my impression (far from it) and that's why dealing a top 5 pick doesn't make a whole lot of sense because they're just not that close to being competitors.
Quote:
And carefull when you critize for going along with what Tarik and Vogel are saying. Because so far its only been writers and reporters who are saying its playoffs or bust for the Capitals next season.
Earlier in this thread, I said I disagreed with the playoffs or bust sentiment as well. (Though I believe Vogel's expectations haven't been nearly as cut-and-dry as Tarik's.) Reaching the playoffs is the goal for next year but GMGM's future won't be determined solely based on whether or not the team reaches the playoffs. If he's fired, it's because the team hasn't progressed sufficiently from both a wins & losses standpoint and a developmental standpoint.
Quote:
Because all McPhee and Ted have been saying is that "our goal is to make the playoffs" or "we think we can make the playoffs" or if they are feeling really bold something like "we think we will be a playoff team next season". Which is exactly the same thing they were saying last summer, and the same things just about every owner and GM of a non playoff team say's the summer before any season.

And I should also point out that both McPhee and Ted also put fill team needs from within even before making trades. Ted specifically said he "prefers to promote from within". Which once again leaves me wondering why they would trade guys like Fehr, Green, or Schultz.
It likewise makes me wonder why they'd deal a top 5 pick when the player selected there is going to have higher upside than Fehr, Green or Schultz and, depending on the player selected, could jump in immediately or in a year or two.

The differences in statements between this year and last is that there's a much greater realization that the team has big holes (in a much more specific sense than was diagnosed last year) which aren't all going to be filled from within the organization.

Langway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 11:33 AM
  #80
Jasper17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,309
vCash: 500
Expecting a draft pick, especially from this years group, to come in anytime within the next 2 or 3 years and make a meaningfull contribution is really hopefull. Most draft picks take around 2 years to even make the NHL, let alone do much when they are their.

I don't think the Caps can compete next season, i don't even expect them to make the playoffs (give them 50/50 shot). But I do think they can make the playoffs in 08/09, and I do think they can compete no later than 09/10. And a draft pick is more than likely not going to help this club that soon. And that is why they are considering moving it.

And both Ted and McPhee said the exact same thing. That they will look to make trades before they look at free agents. They never said that is what they prefer, they never even said why they will look to make a trade or two before they look into free agency. And they certainly never said that making trades is the only think they are going to do.

We don't know why they are going to look into the trade market first. If anything it would make a lot more sense for them or any team to look to add players for free rather than give up assets to add players. But to me the fact that they are looking to make a trade or two tells me that they don't think they can afford/attract multiple quality additions.

But you can't tell me that any org would actually prefer to trade valuable assets to aquire talent rather than just sign someone. There is a reason why they are looking to fill needs through the trade market before looking into the UFA market, and no one knows for sure except for them.

Jasper17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 11:46 AM
  #81
HSHS
Losing is a disease
 
HSHS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Redondo Beach, Ca
Country: United States
Posts: 17,639
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
Well it all depends on how you interpret what McPhee said. He said he would look to free agency first, and then look to trades. I don't think he ever actually said that he favors trades over free agency (maybe this is where I am wrong though).

Now maybe that is what he meant? Or maybe it means he will look to make the best deal he can for the best player he can (defensman or forward) first and then look to get the other need in free agency.
You're confusing me. I thought you pounded the table that Trades were first, then FA cause that's what GMGM values most.

Then I came back with my breakfast before lunch comment.... and yada yada yada.

Maybe you mispoke. Not sure. I can't follow your points, though I'm enjoying you and IditLW's conversation.

HSHS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 11:58 AM
  #82
TempusFugit
 
TempusFugit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,338
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
But you can't tell me that any org would actually prefer to trade valuable assets to aquire talent rather than just sign someone. There is a reason why they are looking to fill needs through the trade market before looking into the UFA market, and no one knows for sure except for them.

Salary cap might be one of those reasons. When you trade assets you're also subtracting their salary, making room for the added salary of the player coming back, whereas signing a UFA just adds more to your cap limit. History also shows that every recent Stanley Cup winner has added key players via trade, but every team that went crazy in the FA market has tanked. I believe them when they say they'll be looking for trades before UFAs.

And please don't point out that the Caps tradeable assets make relatively low salaries. I believe that any trades that the Caps make in this offseason will also be for affordable contracts

TempusFugit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 11:58 AM
  #83
HSHS
Losing is a disease
 
HSHS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Redondo Beach, Ca
Country: United States
Posts: 17,639
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
Expecting a draft pick, especially from this years group, to come in anytime within the next 2 or 3 years and make a meaningfull contribution is really hopefull. Most draft picks take around 2 years to even make the NHL, let alone do much when they are their.
I expect we'll see a handful making meaningful contributions... they just might not be any of the top 5.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
I don't think the Caps can compete next season, i don't even expect them to make the playoffs (give them 50/50 shot). But I do think they can make the playoffs in 08/09, and I do think they can compete no later than 09/10. And a draft pick is more than likely not going to help this club that soon. And that is why they are considering moving it.
I'm not sure how you can make this assumption before training camp. Maybe its based on your expectations for the roster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
And both Ted and McPhee said the exact same thing. That they will look to make trades before they look at free agents. They never said that is what they prefer, they never even said why they will look to make a trade or two before they look into free agency. And they certainly never said that making trades is the only think they are going to do.
Confusing me again... see above post and quote below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Japser17 post 550 from draft thread View Post
And I am not talking about what McPhee told Tarik, i am talking about what McPhee said during an interview on Washingtonpost live. He said that the team would look to make trades first, and then look to free agency. If you havn't heard him put a prioity on either its because you didn't see that interview (it was about a week ago) or you are ignoring it because it doesn't go along with what you want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
We don't know why they are going to look into the trade market first. If anything it would make a lot more sense for them or any team to look to add players for free rather than give up assets to add players. But to me the fact that they are looking to make a trade or two tells me that they don't think they can afford/attract multiple quality additions.
You answered your own question and I agree with you on that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
But you can't tell me that any org would actually prefer to trade valuable assets to aquire talent rather than just sign someone. There is a reason why they are looking to fill needs through the trade market before looking into the UFA market, and no one knows for sure except for them.
I think you can infer, as you did, because of the dollar cost of acquring someone via trade is cheaper. Also, if there's no no-trade clause, the person can't say no to you.

IMHO, I think they will target specific individuals that they think may be available via UFA, RFA, and trades, make a list, and do the best that they can to get those at the top within their budget and trade abilities (obvious I know)


Last edited by HSHS: 04-13-2007 at 12:07 PM.
HSHS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 12:02 PM
  #84
Monty
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 419
vCash: 500
In regard to Novotny, some suggest that the Caps are thinking of using him as a top-6 forward. The Caps haven't given me that impression. When they acquired him, GM very specifically said that they now have their third-line checking center, although his play in the last third of the season may have led them to reconsider that appraisal of Novotny. I remember that well because some suggested that GM must not think much of the other potential third-line centers - Sutherby, Gordon, Laich - that we have.

In regard to Novotny's actual play, I don't think he overly impressed anyone in any role he played. When he played on a checking line, he did not stand out. When he played with Ovechkin or on a so-called scoring line - which I think was only because Zubrus was traded and they needed to play someone there - he did not impress and did not stay long there, and never impressed enough scoring-wise to even garner any second-unit PP time.

Due to GM's penchant to keep a young player he traded for at least one full season to try to vainly prove that his scouting evaluation was the right one, I think there is a good chance that Novotny will be here next year. At the very least, I don't think that GM will not re-up him or definitely look to trade him, although he may end up part of a trade if necessary.

If he stays, I see him strictly in a third-line or fourth-line role, most likely as center. As Gordon has done well and Hanlon loves his play, Novotny looks destined for the fourth-line center role, or that is the odds-on most likely position he will find himself in next season. I don't see him on a scoring line unless this summer the Caps fail to acquire a legit second or first line center.

Monty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 12:36 PM
  #85
Langway
Moderator
Intangibles
 
Langway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,660
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
Expecting a draft pick, especially from this years group, to come in anytime within the next 2 or 3 years and make a meaningfull contribution is really hopefull. Most draft picks take around 2 years to even make the NHL, let alone do much when they are their.
Most draft picks, yes, but typically not top 5 picks (even in what is widely considered a weaker than normal draft at the top it's still not a terrible draft). Backstrom will be expected to make a meaningful contribution this year and depending on the player selected, it's not unreasonable to expect the same thing from their top '07 pick in '08-'09 (particularly if they select who they feel is the most NHL-ready player at five).
Quote:
And both Ted and McPhee said the exact same thing. That they will look to make trades before they look at free agents. They never said that is what they prefer, they never even said why they will look to make a trade or two before they look into free agency. And they certainly never said that making trades is the only think they are going to do.
If you read between the lines, trades are cleary the preferred route to go. Why else would they look to trades before free agency? That seems pretty obvious and GMGM stated that preference more clearly a few weeks ago on WaPo Live. I never said it would be the only means of addition but, according to their statements, it would be their preference that it is.
Quote:
We don't know why they are going to look into the trade market first. If anything it would make a lot more sense for them or any team to look to add players for free rather than give up assets to add players. But to me the fact that they are looking to make a trade or two tells me that they don't think they can afford/attract multiple quality additions.
Yes, it would make sense to add via free agency first...but we're talking about a front office still smarting from throwing so much cash at Jagr and generally hesitant to aggressively go after free agents and get burned by large contracts & long-term deals. The way that GMGM said he'd approach free agency, by having a set limit of what he'd offer certain players after which he would simply move on if it's not good enough, makes me skeptical that the Caps add anyone in free agency that's highly sought after.
Quote:
But you can't tell me that any org would actually prefer to trade valuable assets to aquire talent rather than just sign someone. There is a reason why they are looking to fill needs through the trade market before looking into the UFA market, and no one knows for sure except for them.
If you look at other comments made, the answer is right there in front of you...plain as day (you even partially answered it yourself). They don't want to sign players to what they feel are inflated contracts (assuming a free agent is interested) where they would be on the hook if that player turns out to be a bust. That makes some sense considering all of the younger players that'll need new contracts after next season but their sense of value is probably the most conservative in the entire league. If not, it's close. I mean, Ted said that Zubrus's $3M / year contract demand was first-line center money. You're not going to find many $3M / year first-line centers around the league.

Langway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 12:53 PM
  #86
Jasper17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,309
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ididitlangway View Post
Most draft picks, yes, but typically not top 5 picks (even in what is widely considered a weaker than normal draft at the top it's still not a terrible draft). Backstrom will be expected to make a meaningful contribution this year and depending on the player selected, it's not unreasonable to expect the same thing from their top '07 pick in '08-'09 (particularly if they select who they feel is the most NHL-ready player at five)..
There is a long list of top 5 picks who do nothing in the NHL. And from everything I have read about every player in this draft. Not a single one is expected to be able to contribute at the NHL level right away.

Everyone is expected to take at least a year or two before they make the NHL. And you can never project/expect a rookie to make a big impact his rookie year.

So expecting anyone the Caps could draft with that pick to be a quality top 6 player within the next 2 to 3 years is just wishfull thinking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ididitlangway View Post
If you read between the lines, trades are cleary the preferred route to go. Why else would they look to trades before free agency? That seems pretty obvious and GMGM stated that preference more clearly a few weeks ago on WaPo Live. I never said it would be the only means of addition but, according to their statements, it would be their preference that it is..
No, that is the plan. Why that is the plan is not known. If you want to pretend it is their personal preference to trade assets to aquire players instead of signing them for free than go ahead. But there is cleary a reason for going that route, and its not because they like the idea of giving up quality talent rather than keeping it.

And I watched WaPo live, McPhee did not make anything clearer. He said the exact same thing as Ted just wrote. The one thing those two are great at is keeping the company line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ididitlangway View Post
Yes, it would make sense to add via free agency first...but we're talking about a front office still smarting from throwing so much cash at Jagr and generally hesitant to aggressively go after free agents and get burned by large contracts & long-term deals. The way that GMGM said he'd approach free agency, by having a set limit of what he'd offer certain players after which he would simply move on if it's not good enough, makes me skeptical that the Caps add anyone in free agency that's highly sought after..
And this is the reason, how you can say they prefer to add through trades and then say this is very strange to me. As you just admitted the reason why they have to look to add through trades.

If they could add through free agency they would. But they don't think they can, and that is why they are looking to make trades. Its not because they prefer to make trades, its because its the only choice they have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ididitlangway View Post
If you look at other comments made, the answer is right there in front of you...plain as day (you even partially answered it yourself). They don't want to sign players to what they feel are inflated contracts (assuming a free agent is interested) where they would be on the hook if that player turns out to be a bust. That makes some sense considering all of the younger players that'll need new contracts after next season but their sense of value is probably the most conservative in the entire league. If not, it's close. I mean, Ted said that Zubrus's $3M / year contract demand was first-line center money. You're not going to find many $3M / year first-line centers around the league.
I don't know why you even wrote this?

The bottom line is so far this team has done/said nothing to imply that more than a few new faces would be brought in this summer. So why anyone expects multiple big trades is something I just don't understand.

Jasper17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 02:23 PM
  #87
usiel
HFBoards Sponsor
 
usiel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Malaz City
Country: San Marino
Posts: 9,807
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to usiel
Japser I agree with your sentiment on next year being 50/50 to make the playoffs. Even a near miss of the playoff would likely be considered growth so I don't agree with the playoffs or bust. I believe its more the organization trying to set more aggressive tone and expectations for everyone..players/coaches, etc..

IMO GMGM is not going to pull go crazy and pull some Mad Mike type trades. He could surprise me but I don't think so. Didn't see a ton of points improvement this past year but IMO it will pay dividends in the long run with the young players so I think GMGM is going to be more agressive and get some veterans but isn't going to break the bank or be dumb about getting into an obvious cap problem a couple of years down the road.

__________________
True Story™®©
usiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 02:57 PM
  #88
Chimaera
same ol' Caps
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: La Plata, Maryland
Country: United States
Posts: 21,513
vCash: 500
I have one bone to pick on most of this. The main thing I have a problem with is the opinion that the Caps might be in line to break the bank soon. They're not going to run up to the Cap anytime soon, and even if they sink in 15 million in premium contracts this summer, they're still going to have room. In 3-4 years time, when Semin, Ovechkin and Backstrom all start to want some money, sure, they might have a quandry. But that also depends on the team winning. If they're winning, there's money to be had, if they're not, they probably need to ship some pieces out to get there. Not only that, if a player wants more than what he is worth to the team, deal him, replace him from within or sign a cheaper replacement.


That is what you get out of having a deep farm system. They could ship out some players for replacements, they could move draft picks for cheap alternatives, they could build around their centerpieces. Honestly, they're not going to be in a finnancialy logjam, unless Teddy closes the purse.

But, that is also a chicken and the egg type of a situation. If they're spending money on good players, they're going to be winning, so hopefully there will be butts in the seats, so they will be making more money. Making the playoffs eases a lot of burden, because that's pure profit right there. A 2 round run in the playoffs could help out financially immensely.

Obviously, paying Semin, Ovechkin, Backstrom and a few others is not going to be cheap. But if it really comes down to be a significant issue, you deal Semin and replace him with 2-3 players who make 1/3rd of what he'll make down the road. You add quality picks in this years draft and keep drafting well, and you'll have talent to bring in when you have to move some players to keep under the Cap. But when the Cap is expanding 3-5 million a year, you shouldn't run into any problems unless the team gets locked into a contract with a player not reaching his potential. If you pay Ovechkin the 6.5-7 million dollar contract, he better put up numbers to sustain the payment. If Morrisonn wants a big contract (I doubt it at this point) he better put up solid defensive numbers and production. IF they go out and get a Gomez (and I think they should) he better produce at a rate that is relatively equal to his cost. I'm not sure the exact finanncial number right now, but I'm sure they've got at least 15-20 million they could spend this coming year before getting up to the cap limit, and if the league continues to go on the pace it is now, 3-4 million more each year will be tacked on for teams to spend. Obviously, I don't expect Ted to spend the maximum. But if the team is in the playoffs, winning, people are buying tickets, and they have a solid core of talent, they darn well better sink down the coin to keep their stars on board (or if not, get a significant return to replace them).

Chimaera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 03:50 PM
  #89
usiel
HFBoards Sponsor
 
usiel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Malaz City
Country: San Marino
Posts: 9,807
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to usiel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimaera View Post
But if the team is in the playoffs, winning, people are buying tickets, and they have a solid core of talent, they darn well better sink down the coin to keep their stars on board (or if not, get a significant return to replace them).
Playoffs will help a bit with season ticket holders and overall gate but it isn't like this team is going to be selling out the arena on any consistent basis considering they are at least third on the depth chart in the DC area in pro sports.

Not saying what you propose couldn't happen (breaking the bank) just in my opinion I don't think it is likely to happen considering how the club has stuck to their guns on this rebuild. Seeing who they target this off season will, of course, let everyone to know if they are sticking to their stated plan or if it is changing mid-stream (which would scare me...me no like desperate GMs as they tend to make more mistakes).

usiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 04:05 PM
  #90
Chimaera
same ol' Caps
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: La Plata, Maryland
Country: United States
Posts: 21,513
vCash: 500
I don't think they break the bank, but I think the option is there to do it. Getting a 5-6 million dollar player would be out of character, but not entirely unwarranted. The team needs talent at significant places on their roster. Sometimes a team has to bite the bullet and pay for it, if they ever intend on getting better.

waiting around for a diamond in the rough or someone to develop down the road might or might not happen.

Obviously, it isn't my money, but if it is me, I offer A.Markov 4.5-5 per for a few years, and if that isn't enough to get it done, go up a decent bit. I don't think he hits the market, but if he does, and I'm GMGM, I have Ovechkin sleeping on his doorstep till he considers coming. Why you say? Because this team doesn't have what he brings in the pipeline. They have no defensemen with significant experience who can play a key role, and help foster the development of the young guys. Schultz, Green, Eminger and to an extent Morrisonn will never pick up the type of nuances Markov could teach from the likes of Jamie Heward or Bryan freakin Muir. Not to mention, while Green or Morrisonn might eventually be a #2, they'll be hard pressed to find it out without experience and talent surrounding them.

If Markov won't come, I'm doing a similar move for Gomez. Why? The team has one top 6 center in the pipeline of any note. Sure, Bouchard/Perrault and a few others might be able to play that role at some point, but when and if? Backstrom is still a big if. Sure, you could fill it with a Handzus or a Josef Stumpel, but lets be serious, those are just placeholders for the next 2 years until someone (Who knows who, and that's the issue) could take the spot away. The problem is, the players set to take those spots are not in the pipeline.

If the Caps had 2 of Backstrom (and maybe a selection this year in the top 5 could do that) signing a secondary free agent for the center spot would make sense. But they don't. Semin and Ovechkin (plus Kolzig and some others) are going to be ready to compete soon. the team needs to make the playoffs in the next year or two, or it might be too late. If you're waiting around for a Gagner, or a Turris or a player like that (no matter how talented) you're setting the rebuild further back.

Spending money just to spend it is foolish. Just like if a trade can be worked out to bring either of those two options on board (a top 2 center, a top 2 defenseman) then I'd do it. But at some point, you have to look at what you have and pay what it takes to fill in those spots. Markov, Drury, Gomez, Briere, Rafalski and a few other choice players are going to be VERY expensive. However, if the team went after one, they would instantly fill a hole for at least 3-4 years time. That's what the team needs to do. Find a hole in the lineup, and fill it. If they're serious about taking steps towards the playoffs, they can't fill it with a prospect 3-4 years away. They need talent that can be here for those 3-4 years. Not giving up more time of Ovechkin's sentence here in DC. If they squander his time here, and don't make a serious effort to make the playoffs as soon as possible, I won't blame him when he leaves.

Chimaera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 04:14 PM
  #91
C-A-P-S
Registered User
 
C-A-P-S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 2,031
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
And this is where I am confused. Why do you expect them to bring in 2-3 new forwards? I am only expecting 1 maybe 2 forwards from outside the org.

I mean I guess you could say the team will bring in 2-3 new forwards next season if you count Backstrom as one of the new forwards?
Yes. Backstrom is who I am counting.

Look Here's are guys who will be taking regular spots from last year's roster.

1. Backstrom
2. A New Center
3. Fehr/Flash will take a regular spot next year
4. Possibly a veteran RW.

Thats 4 out of 12 regular spots among the forwards. So who are the other 8? The following are all under contract:

1. Ovy
2. Semin
3. Clark
4. Gordon
5. Pettinger
6. Bradley
7. Clymer
8. Brashear

Who is not under contract but was with the team at the end of the year?

9. Suts
10. Laich
11. Novotny
12. Beech

There is not enough room for all of these guys RFA guys. On the conservative side you could say that they won't sign another right wing, but that only opens up one more spot.

I say three of those last four guys i mentioned will be gone.

C-A-P-S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 04:26 PM
  #92
Jasper17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,309
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by C-A-P-S View Post
Yes. Backstrom is who I am counting.

Look Here's are guys who will be taking regular spots from last year's roster.

1. Backstrom
2. A New Center
3. Fehr/Flash will take a regular spot next year
4. Possibly a veteran RW.

Thats 4 out of 12 regular spots among the forwards. So who are the other 8? The following are all under contract:

1. Ovy
2. Semin
3. Clark
4. Gordon
5. Pettinger
6. Bradley
7. Clymer
8. Brashear

Who is not under contract but was with the team at the end of the year?

9. Suts
10. Laich
11. Novotny
12. Beech

There is not enough room for all of these guys RFA guys. On the conservative side you could say that they won't sign another right wing, but that only opens up one more spot.

I say three of those last four guys i mentioned will be gone.
Well considering it takes 14 forwards to fill out a roster, not just the 12 you play than night. I doubt 3 of those last 4 are gone. In fact I think there is a chance all 4 of those guys are with the org in some capacity next year (Beech in Hershey).

If the Caps do bring in a top 6 RW, than someone will have to go. But I am going to wait and see if that actually happens. Because I am not 100% sold it will.

Jasper17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 04:34 PM
  #93
Langway
Moderator
Intangibles
 
Langway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,660
vCash: 500
Penciling in their top pick in the lineup in two years isn't wishful thinking if you select the player you feel is the most NHL ready at five. Sure, there have been top 5 busts but if you are strong at scouting then, even in this draft, you should be in a position at five to add a piece that can help out in two years.
Quote:
And I watched WaPo live, McPhee did not make anything clearer. He said the exact same thing as Ted just wrote. The one thing those two are great at is keeping the company line.
McPhee stated in much more specific terms a few weeks ago (not the recent interview) just how conservative their free agent plans were. Much moreso than Ted did in his Owner's Corner.
Quote:
And this is the reason, how you can say they prefer to add through trades and then say this is very strange to me. As you just admitted the reason why they have to look to add through trades.

If they could add through free agency they would. But they don't think they can, and that is why they are looking to make trades. Its not because they prefer to make trades, its because its the only choice they have.
No, I admitted the reason they think they have to look to add through trades rather than free agency. Their line of thinking is very much a conscious choice that they've made.

They have a choice whether or not they are conservative in free agency and whether or not they think they can sign someone or not. They don't have to forego exploration of free agency at all, which is what they've said they will do. That is 100% their choice. How does thinking that you can't land a free agent help turn that tide around so that you will? It's self-defeating. They've already effectively painted themselves into a corner so that since they believe that they can't seriously add a free agent, they'll forego it by adding by other means whenever possible.

If they really want to land a free agent, they wouldn't make all of these statements about pursuing trades instead. They'd flatly go out and do their best to sign some help via free agency. Period. If that were to fail, then they'd explore trades. Foregoing the pursuit of free agents for trades and building from within is not forced upon them by forces beyond their control. To say that is absurd.
Quote:
The bottom line is so far this team has done/said nothing to imply that more than a few new faces would be brought in this summer. So why anyone expects multiple big trades is something I just don't understand.
Maybe not multiple big trades, per se, but multiple significant additions. If you haven't gotten that impression then I don't know what to say. Maybe you just don't listen to the front office anymore but rather deconstruct their comments so that you aren't disappointed once again (not altogether a bad idea). I don't know.

Langway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 04:36 PM
  #94
Chimaera
same ol' Caps
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: La Plata, Maryland
Country: United States
Posts: 21,513
vCash: 500
I wouldn't be shocked to see a Laich/Sutherby or a Novotny go out in a package.

Chimaera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 08:51 PM
  #95
Jasper17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,309
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ididitlangway View Post
Maybe not multiple big trades, per se, but multiple significant additions. If you haven't gotten that impression then I don't know what to say. Maybe you just don't listen to the front office anymore but rather deconstruct their comments so that you aren't disappointed once again (not altogether a bad idea). I don't know.
I think its much more of a case that I actually do listen to what the org says, and not just to what I want to hear.

Its kinda funny how when the org says they want to upgrade the center position, everyone starts talking about how the team is going to go after Briere, Drury, Gomez and Datsyuk.

And now that they say they want to add through trades, people think this team is going to make multiple big moves and go from rebuild to win now mode.

Jasper17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 09:51 PM
  #96
Chimaera
same ol' Caps
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: La Plata, Maryland
Country: United States
Posts: 21,513
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
I think its much more of a case that I actually do listen to what the org says, and not just to what I want to hear.

Its kinda funny how when the org says they want to upgrade the center position, everyone starts talking about how the team is going to go after Briere, Drury, Gomez and Datsyuk.

And now that they say they want to add through trades, people think this team is going to make multiple big moves and go from rebuild to win now mode.

There is potentially a middle ground. Adding a Briere/Drury/Gomez or whatever the case might be could be possible. There doesn't have to be a, "lets just go with a fill in", when potentially they could get a guy who could be a part of a winning team down the road.

Why get a stop gap measure when you could get a player that could make a difference?

Money is the issue, but lets not act like just standing pat or a Stumpel move is going to get the team into the playoffs. The team has serious holes that 33 year old castoff centermen aren't going to fix. Getting a defenseman who is a step up from Jamie Heward doesn't make the team better. The team needs to make a few dynamic moves, or its to the lottery again.

Chimaera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 09:53 PM
  #97
Langway
Moderator
Intangibles
 
Langway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,660
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
I think its much more of a case that I actually do listen to what the org says, and not just to what I want to hear.

Its kinda funny how when the org says they want to upgrade the center position, everyone starts talking about how the team is going to go after Briere, Drury, Gomez and Datsyuk.
Ah, yes, everyone is mistaken but the wise Japser, right? Including me and my non-existent lofty expectations of the likes of Gomez? No, I've consistently doubted (for all of the reasons elaborated on previously) that they sign a big name free agent. It would be staggeringly out of character. But there is a middle ground between castoffs and All-Stars, between rebuilding for the long-term and mortgaging the future for short-term success. Based on the current state of things, I'd guess that they don't simply go the castoffs route this summer. That time has passed, that card has been played, they know how that story ends. Pissing away the offseason by making minimal additions (along the lines of the Friesens and Muirs) not only wastes a year of Kolzig's career but makes progress next year less likely and fans less on board with the direction of the franchise, both of which are bad for the franchise.
Quote:
And now that they say they want to add through trades, people think this team is going to make multiple big moves and go from rebuild to win now mode.
Well, you can see why certain fans could come to that conclusion based on certain statements coming from Ted. For instance, during the telecast of the final game vs. Buffalo Leonsis said, in effect, that the time for rebuilding is over. So, you can either blow that off as just empty words meant to please impatient fans or take that to mean that there will be a change, albeit not a stark departure, in the organization's offseason approach in adding talent.

While I agree that the organization isn't going to go from night (rebuilding) to day (win now at all costs), as I mentioned earlier, there is a middle ground. What I take from the front office's recent comments is a greater acknowledgement of operating in that middle ground as the way to go.

What I would expect, moreso than them dealing their top pick (which seems much too win-now mode), is for the front office to make judgement calls on their existing young players (seeing as how this year was supposed to be a year for their youngsters to be scrutinized) and then attempt to move those they feel aren't necessary for success going forward (or that they have a surplus of). That's assuredly not likely to bring back a ton in deals unless one of the bigger name young players has failed to impress them but it fits with their stated priorities moreso than dealing a top pick and the top-end potential it could provide a couple of years down the line. Though you may think that relying on inexperienced young players to contribute a few years down the road is pure folly, it's precisely what this franchise has relied on to progress as a whole over the past three years and that'll continue to be the case for the next few years.

Langway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 10:36 PM
  #98
CapitalsCupFantasy
HFBoards Sponsor
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 27,606
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
I think its much more of a case that I actually do listen to what the org says, and not just to what I want to hear.

Its kinda funny how when the org says they want to upgrade the center position, everyone starts talking about how the team is going to go after Briere, Drury, Gomez and Datsyuk.

And now that they say they want to add through trades, people think this team is going to make multiple big moves and go from rebuild to win now mode.

Well...as usual when you get in a long debate you get condiscending at some point.


I somewhat agree with what you are trying to say. I think many of us (myself included) are taking what has been said by ownership,by Ovechkin, Kolzig, etc...about bringing in experienced players to mean we'll get an impact player or two. It's more likely that we won't quite honestly. Not necessarily because the Caps don't want to spend, but because star UFAs have to want to come to DC. They aren't just coming because Leonsis is willing to spend finally.

I prefer to think the Caps realize that the fans are fed up, that Ovechkin is fed up, that the other players are fed up with management fielding a team that's at the bottom of the league in salary, that Kolzig only has probably 3 good season left in him if they think he can carry the load on a Cup run. Harsh reality is that those of us believe the Caps will sign a Gomez, Drury, Briere, etc...may indeed be in for some heartbreak, but I prefer to think positively at this point until Leonsis once again disappoints.

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2007, 11:02 AM
  #99
Jasper17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,309
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanwon View Post
Well...as usual when you get in a long debate you get condiscending at some point. .
now i'm not even aloud to defend myself?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shanwon View Post
I somewhat agree with what you are trying to say. I think many of us (myself included) are taking what has been said by ownership,by Ovechkin, Kolzig, etc...about bringing in experienced players to mean we'll get an impact player or two. It's more likely that we won't quite honestly. Not necessarily because the Caps don't want to spend, but because star UFAs have to want to come to DC. They aren't just coming because Leonsis is willing to spend finally.

I prefer to think the Caps realize that the fans are fed up, that Ovechkin is fed up, that the other players are fed up with management fielding a team that's at the bottom of the league in salary, that Kolzig only has probably 3 good season left in him if they think he can carry the load on a Cup run. Harsh reality is that those of us believe the Caps will sign a Gomez, Drury, Briere, etc...may indeed be in for some heartbreak, but I prefer to think positively at this point until Leonsis once again disappoints.
I expect the Caps to get am impact player or 2. But impact player does not always mean elite player. And for this team, it almost never does.

Jasper17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2007, 11:03 AM
  #100
Jasper17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,309
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ididitlangway View Post
Ah, yes, everyone is mistaken but the wise Japser, right? Including me and my non-existent lofty expectations of the likes of Gomez?
It honestly seems that way.

But lets just wait and see what happens, hopefully I am wrong. Because I would love to see Hannon, and Gomez and a salary close to the Cap limit.

Jasper17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:09 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.