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Kirill Kolsov offers

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Old
05-24-2007, 10:37 AM
  #51
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Krispy Kremes will give you Pavel Brendl for Kiril Kolsov, then they will change their name to 'Krispy Kiril Kolsov of Kremes'.

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05-24-2007, 02:19 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
No, I know that Koltsov is getting a much better deal in Russia then he currently would in North America. There's no doubting that.

My point, that you've missed, is that if Koltsov comes over to the NHL, has a great season or two and proves himself, he could then earn a better contract and possibly make more than he would in Russia.

The chances of him leaving Russia to take a chance at making it big in the NHL are probably slim, but it all comes down to how much Koltsov wants to play in the best league in the world.
I didn't miss your point. I just don't know why he would take such a risk. This is also a player who does not speak English and had a bad experience the first time around by being sent to Manitoba. He has just been signed for lots of tax free dough by a team owned by an oil rich industrialist.

I don't know the details but I understand there is a way to pay him additional money in the NHL as an entry level bonus that does not count against the cap. If the ownership group was prepared to make up some of the difference that might make it work.

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05-24-2007, 02:36 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannoabram View Post
grebeshkov didnt do much in his nhl time he should be handed every opportunity with the oil next year though. and no im not going off a stat sheet,
a) that's still more than Koltsov has accomplished
b) you didn't answer the question at hand, what are you basing the claim that Koltsov was better than Grebs "hands down?"

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05-24-2007, 02:48 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junius View Post
I didn't miss your point. I just don't know why he would take such a risk. This is also a player who does not speak English and had a bad experience the first time around by being sent to Manitoba. He has just been signed for lots of tax free dough by a team owned by an oil rich industrialist.
It all comes down to whether or not he has the desire to be the best he can be and play in the NHL. If he plays well in the NHL, he can likely make more money long term than he would by staying in Russia. If he has no desire to play in North America, then obviously he's not going to take less to come here. It's all up to KK really.

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05-24-2007, 04:03 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seph View Post
a) that's still more than Koltsov has accomplished
b) you didn't answer the question at hand, what are you basing the claim that Koltsov was better than Grebs "hands down?"
I think by saying he is not going off a stats sheet he is indicating that he has seen them both play.

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05-24-2007, 04:32 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jin View Post
I think by saying he is not going off a stats sheet he is indicating that he has seen them both play.
I'll admit that I've never been to Saskatoon, but I'm really curious how someone living there would be able to see enough RSL hockey to be able to tell who was hands down the best defenseman in the league. It was a pretty straight forward question, and will let me know how much validity to give his opinion on the subject.

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05-24-2007, 04:36 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannoabram View Post
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...id%5B%5D=59066

24 year old defenseman with a ton of offensive potential. excellant skater, and during the last 2 years has improved his defensive game to the point where he is the best d-man in the RSL. with bieksa mitchell ohlund salo as a top 4 and krajicek and sopel as 5,6 and rory as 7 with edler rahimi bourdon coming up we can deal him.
former 2nd round pick.
what vancouver needs is RW's with a RHS
fire away
Kolsov to the Rangers for Hugh Jessiman and Bryce Lampman

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05-24-2007, 06:00 PM
  #58
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In some oddly karmic twist that actually sees both players work out enough differences in their quite similar problems enough that they PLAY in the NHL....


Kirill Koltsov to Tampa Bay for Evgeni Artyukin


I think the value for both players, currently making more than they're worth here on contracts in Russia, is pretty much non-existent in the trade market until they come and toe the line in the NHL awhile.

As a side note I think the deal above, if it saw them play, would benefit both teams. But if they could get them to be a part of the their own teams it'd probably be just as good. Tough to begrudge them passing up less money to go live half a world away but it'd be nice to see what they're made of noe the less.

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Old
05-25-2007, 02:26 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seph View Post
Based on what exactly? Did you watch them both play at all or are you just going off of a stat sheet?
I did. And i have to tell you that dannoabram is right. Koltsov was the best defenseman in RSL, while Grebeshkov wasn't even in the top 10. Koltsov made a great impact on his team's play, while Grebeshkov was only 'one of'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marksman View Post
Montreal already has Korneev, who, I believe, is very much like Koltsov, just a year younger and season behind him in development.
They are totally different. Koltsov is an offensive power, with lack of defensive play. Like Sourey on your team. Korneev would look like Kalinin, for example. Reliable puck moving defenseman with average offensive and defensive skills.

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05-25-2007, 03:20 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Russian Rocket View Post
He said that he WOULD be playing the NHL this following season. He also said that the contract the Canucks offered him for this year "wasn't bad" and that the only reason he didn't come over was because he made a promise to his coach to play one more year.

So, if you take Koltsov's word, he is coming over. Personally I do, but some don't.
That was before he signed a deal with his new team for $1.7 million. To come to North America you would need to double that salary. Not much chance of anyone gambling $3.5 million on Koltsov.

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05-25-2007, 03:26 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junius View Post
I didn't miss your point. I just don't know why he would take such a risk. This is also a player who does not speak English and had a bad experience the first time around by being sent to Manitoba. He has just been signed for lots of tax free dough by a team owned by an oil rich industrialist.

I don't know the details but I understand there is a way to pay him additional money in the NHL as an entry level bonus that does not count against the cap. If the ownership group was prepared to make up some of the difference that might make it work.
No there is not. He has already signed his entry level deal so no bonuses are available per the new CBA.

Vancouver apparently offered him a $1.25 million one way contract last year but he rejected it. Since then he has signed on in Russia for $1.7 million (equivalent to about $3.5 million in the NHL).

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05-25-2007, 04:23 AM
  #62
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When I watched him in the AHL it now boggles my mind why he's still developing as a Defensemen. The guy dips and dangles more than Afinogenov and Connolly, and he was pretty effective at it at the AHL level. I've never seen an offensive defensemen just flat out become a forward at any cost on the ice before. Even "offensive" "defensemen" that sucked at defense like Elmore don't even come close to the mind set of Koltsov.

Work ethic and attitude is all that would stop him from being a fairly effective 20/30 forward at the NHL level.

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05-25-2007, 09:22 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sivert View Post
I did. And i have to tell you that dannoabram is right. Koltsov was the best defenseman in RSL, while Grebeshkov wasn't even in the top 10. Koltsov made a great impact on his team's play, while Grebeshkov was only 'one of'


They are totally different. Koltsov is an offensive power, with lack of defensive play.
I don't get how these two things can be said together. Maybe it's different over here, but I can't imagine a defenseman who lacks defensive play could be considered the best defenseman in the league. Is it a difference in the leagues or do you just consider his offensive skill to be that much better than everyone else's?

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05-25-2007, 10:57 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Seph View Post
I don't get how these two things can be said together. Maybe it's different over here, but I can't imagine a defenseman who lacks defensive play could be considered the best defenseman in the league. Is it a difference in the leagues or do you just consider his offensive skill to be that much better than everyone else's?
Apparently not. Koltsov was cut from the Russian national team because of his defensive shortcomings.

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05-25-2007, 12:15 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sivert View Post
They are totally different. Koltsov is an offensive power, with lack of defensive play. Like Sourey on your team. Korneev would look like Kalinin, for example. Reliable puck moving defenseman with average offensive and defensive skills.
Really? I remember Korneev used to play forward when he was younger. Has his offensive game really gone down that much? He seems to have had pretty good numbers for CSKA this season for a 22 yo defenceman. I've been hoping he would be poor mans version of Andrei Markov - I'm afraid he doenst have enough size having Kalinin type of game in NHL.

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05-27-2007, 03:00 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sivert View Post
I did. And i have to tell you that dannoabram is right. Koltsov was the best defenseman in RSL, while Grebeshkov wasn't even in the top 10 Koltsov made a great impact on his team's play, while Grebeshkov was only 'one of'.
It really depends on what you want from you defenseman, you can build an arguement for the superiority of either one over the other, as for example Bykov did by choosing Grebeshkov, among other RSL defencemen, over Koltsov. Which Lokomotiv blueliner was better than Grebs though? I personally thought he edged out Vasiliev quite comfortably.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sivert View Post
They are totally different. Koltsov is an offensive power, with lack of defensive play. Like Sourey on your team. Korneev would look like Kalinin, for example. Reliable puck moving defenseman with average offensive and defensive skills.
I think Souray is a poor comparisson, the styles of the two players contrast quite starkly. Koltsov's offensive prowess is largely a result of his skating ability and creativity, quite unlike Souray's trademark of a heavy shot.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Seph View Post
I don't get how these two things can be said together. Maybe it's different over here, but I can't imagine a defenseman who lacks defensive play could be considered the best defenseman in the league. Is it a difference in the leagues or do you just consider his offensive skill to be that much better than everyone else's?
The same way that say Paul Coffey was considered an elite defenseman in the NHL - if a star has gamebreaking talent in a particular facet of the game, people (coaches included) tend to be willing to overlook the said star's shortcommings. Its not like Kolstov is absolutely horrid defensively, his problems lie more in the amount of attention he diverts to defensive play rather than actual defensive ability - which, on occassion, he has demonstrated in critical games. Overall, Kolstov's defense is passable at the RSL level as long as he gets a solid stay at home partner like he did with Avangard in Nikita Nikitin to back him up. In such a situation it is generally worth it to let Kolstov "do his thing" offensively so to say and accept the resultant risks.

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