HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

Crazy Idea #2 : trade up and draft Kane and Gagner

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-13-2007, 02:02 PM
  #26
ChuckyToGally
Former Carey Roy
 
ChuckyToGally's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,720
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
I'd do it.

Also, I'm not all that sold on Gagner, but again, I'm not sold on any of the players we can draft at #12. So I think that #12 + 2nd round for a player who is underrated is a good deal.

PS I love trailer park boys too!
The Hawks wouldn't.

They want to play for a playoff spot next year. They will probably try to trade Khabibulin. I know it's a long shot but:

To CHI: Brad Richards and Marc Denis

To TB: Nikolai Khabibulin and Cam Barker

Then:

To CHI: Cristobal Huet, Kyle Chipchura and SJ 1st round pick

To MTL: 1st overall

Then:

To ???: Alexander Perezhogin and 12th overall

To MTL: 7th overall

I think we should go that way. I know that Gainey will not do it but I think that's what it would take to have a contender team for years to come.

I wouldn't care to see the team loose since I would know that they finally did all they can to give us a great team in a couple years.

Let's not forget that we would have a shot at John Tavares for the 2008 draft.

ChuckyToGally is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 02:09 PM
  #27
MM425
Registered User
 
MM425's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,586
vCash: 500
Simply put: attempting to obtain the 1st overall pick this year isn't worth sacrificing the future.

Sure, Kane, Ganger, Turris, ect. could turn out to be terrific players... but they'res just as good of a chance that the player we draft at 12 could turn out to be better than the one drafted at #1. It's one of those drafts.

All this talk of trading Price, Ryder, Chipchura, and Huet plus picks to move up is foolish.

MM425 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 02:15 PM
  #28
FF de Mars
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: 42 rue Fontaine
Country: Martinique
Posts: 5,918
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by perezhogin_19 View Post
The Hawks wouldn't.

They want to play for a playoff spot next year. They will probably try to trade Khabibulin. I know it's a long shot but:

To CHI: Brad Richards and Marc Denis

To TB: Nikolai Khabibulin and Cam Barker

Then:

To CHI: Cristobal Huet, Kyle Chipchura and SJ 1st round pick

To MTL: 1st overall

Then:

To ???: Alexander Perezhogin and 12th overall

To MTL: 7th overall

I think we should go that way. I know that Gainey will not do it but I think that's what it would take to have a contender team for years to come.

I wouldn't care to see the team loose since I would know that they finally did all they can to give us a great team in a couple years.

Let's not forget that we would have a shot at John Tavares for the 2008 draft.
I don't think the Hawks would bite, because the #1 overall pick is always overvalued (unless there is a Sidney Crosby). There is no concencus as who will be picked at #1, so I'd try to grab a top five pick instead to pick Kane or Cherepanov. But, if the Hawks bite, I'd do your trade(s) in a heartbeat. Perezhogin + #12 is interesting, although I'd rather trade a second than Perez, who is our Afinogenov.

FF de Mars is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 02:16 PM
  #29
FF de Mars
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: 42 rue Fontaine
Country: Martinique
Posts: 5,918
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mackattack View Post
Simply put: attempting to obtain the 1st overall pick this year isn't worth sacrificing the future.

Sure, Kane, Ganger, Turris, ect. could turn out to be terrific players... but they'res just as good of a chance that the player we draft at 12 could turn out to be better than the one drafted at #1. It's one of those drafts.

All this talk of trading Price, Ryder, Chipchura, and Huet plus picks to move up is foolish.
I never said I wanted the Hawks pick...

FF de Mars is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 02:16 PM
  #30
ChuckyToGally
Former Carey Roy
 
ChuckyToGally's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,720
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mackattack View Post
Simply put: attempting to obtain the 1st overall pick this year isn't worth sacrificing the future.

Sure, Kane, Ganger, Turris, ect. could turn out to be terrific players... but they'res just as good of a chance that the player we draft at 12 could turn out to be better than the one drafted at #1. It's one of those drafts.

All this talk of trading Price, Ryder, Chipchura, and Huet plus picks to move up is foolish.
Price is the future. Not Ryder, Chipchura and Huet. I would for sure include them in any deal just to have the chance to draft someone who could become the franchise player we need.

ChuckyToGally is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 02:19 PM
  #31
ChuckyToGally
Former Carey Roy
 
ChuckyToGally's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,720
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
I don't think the Hawks would bite, because the #1 overall pick is always overvalued (unless there is a Sidney Crosby). There is no concencus as who will be picked at #1, so I'd try to grab a top five pick instead to pick Kane or Cherepanov. But, if the Hawks bite, I'd do your trade(s) in a heartbeat. Perezhogin + #12 is interesting, although I'd rather trade a second than Perez, who is our Afinogenov.
Kane has a lot of chances to be the 1st overall pick. If we really want him, that's the pick we have to target.

If he's still there when the Flyers pick, they will take him for sure, no doubt about that.

Getting Kane is interesting but let be honest. To do so, we need to get the 1st overall.

ChuckyToGally is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 02:30 PM
  #32
FF de Mars
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: 42 rue Fontaine
Country: Martinique
Posts: 5,918
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by perezhogin_19 View Post
Kane has a lot of chances to be the 1st overall pick. If we really want him, that's the pick we have to target.

If he's still there when the Flyers pick, they will take him for sure, no doubt about that.

Getting Kane is interesting but let be honest. To do so, we need to get the 1st overall.
If Kane is gone, there are Cherepanov or Turris. I think the top 3 of the draft is a wash, Kane, Turris and Cherepanov are as good, IMO. As a matter of fact, my first choice, if I was drafting, would be Cherepanov, not Kane. And plz, don't give me that crap about russians, take a look at what Montreal, the moderator, wrote about the topic... Russian players are as good as NA players.


Last edited by FF de Mars: 04-13-2007 at 02:33 PM. Reason: Cherepanov...
FF de Mars is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 02:35 PM
  #33
FF de Mars
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: 42 rue Fontaine
Country: Martinique
Posts: 5,918
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by perezhogin_19 View Post
Price is the future. Not Ryder, Chipchura and Huet. I would for sure include them in any deal just to have the chance to draft someone who could become the franchise player we need.
+1, even if I think that Kane or Cherepanov = future like Price = future.

BTW, Turris is a speed monster and a sniper. Imagine him on a line with Koivu (or Brière, for that matter)... it'd be sick. Reports tell that he already has NHL speed. I also think that he has a good close to NHL or NHL shot. If I drafted him, I'd promote him to the NHL andf play him with Koivu and Higgins. It'd be a hell of a speedy and scoring line complimented by Higgins "grittiness", even if it's not the word I'm looking for.


Last edited by FF de Mars: 04-13-2007 at 02:39 PM. Reason: Turris
FF de Mars is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 02:41 PM
  #34
habsprospects
Irresponsible User
 
habsprospects's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Sherbrooke, Québec
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,626
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
I'd rather have good rookies than Bonk, Johnson, Kovalev, Sammy, Bouillon, Begin, Dandy and their deadweight salary. My plan is to get rid of the deadwood and replace it with rookies and our own UFAs + Timmonen, which is a good acquisition. As I explained, I think that the team I've put on paper is better, has a better defence and is more explosive than the team we had this year (which didn't even make the playoffs). It's not even rebuilding because we keep our core.
there is also a minimum cap hit that team must be at...

__________________

Habs Prospects website

Last edited by habsprospects: 04-13-2007 at 02:44 PM. Reason: typo
habsprospects is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 02:42 PM
  #35
ChuckyToGally
Former Carey Roy
 
ChuckyToGally's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,720
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
If Kane is gone, there are Cherepanov or Turris. I think the top 3 of the draft is a wash, Kane, Turris and Cherepanov are as good, IMO. As a matter of fact, my first choice, if I was drafting, would be Cherepanov, not Kane. And plz, don't give me that crap about russians, take a look at what Montreal, the moderator, wrote about the topic... Russian players are as good as NA players.
But then, we wouldn' have the Kost-Gagner-Kane line...

Seriously, I think that Cherepanov is the only one in the draft to have a superstar potential. That said, I would probably take Kane before him.

ChuckyToGally is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 02:44 PM
  #36
ChuckyToGally
Former Carey Roy
 
ChuckyToGally's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,720
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thief50 View Post
there is also a minimum cap hit thet team must be at...
Koivu + Souray + Markov + Timonen...

I'm not saying we would be able to to sign Timonen but I think that FF idea is pretty good. Gainey will never go that way but I would REALLY like it.

ChuckyToGally is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 02:45 PM
  #37
Drive425
Registered User
 
Drive425's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: St Louis Du Haha
Country: Malta
Posts: 1,933
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drive425 View Post
Habs 1st + SJ 1st + Wash 3rd + Chipchura

for 1st overall??
Quote:
Originally Posted by perezhogin_19 View Post
The Hawks wouldn't.

They want to play for a playoff spot next year. They will probably try to trade Khabibulin. I know it's a long shot but:
Chicago isn't giving up any immediate future in the package I'd offer. Plus they have get a potential future NHL captain who is NHL ready.

Drive425 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 02:49 PM
  #38
ChuckyToGally
Former Carey Roy
 
ChuckyToGally's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,720
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drive425 View Post
Chicago isn't giving up any immediate future in the package I'd offer. Plus they have get a potential future NHL captain who is NHL ready.
I know what you're saying. But i talked with a few Blackhawks fans and they want established players. They're tired to loose. They want to be in the playoffs.

ChuckyToGally is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 02:52 PM
  #39
Drive425
Registered User
 
Drive425's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: St Louis Du Haha
Country: Malta
Posts: 1,933
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by perezhogin_19 View Post
I know what you're saying. But i talked with a few Blackhawks fans and they want established players. They're tired to loose. They want to be in the playoffs.
Ya, it must really suck to be a Hawks fan!!

Drive425 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 03:00 PM
  #40
FF de Mars
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: 42 rue Fontaine
Country: Martinique
Posts: 5,918
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by perezhogin_19 View Post
But then, we wouldn' have the Kost-Gagner-Kane line...

Seriously, I think that Cherepanov is the only one in the draft to have a superstar potential. That said, I would probably take Kane before him.
I know, it kills me too! IU'd love to see that line... But, again, there are many things that we can do with out team this summer, many directions to decide taking.

FF de Mars is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 03:05 PM
  #41
FF de Mars
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: 42 rue Fontaine
Country: Martinique
Posts: 5,918
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by perezhogin_19 View Post
I know what you're saying. But i talked with a few Blackhawks fans and they want established players. They're tired to loose. They want to be in the playoffs.
Just like that, if we decide to rebuild :

Koivu, maybe Chipchura and SJ 1st for #1 overall. (or we can ante up to get one of their young D-man that they have in excess)
Then #12 + 2nd rounder for Gagner
And...
We have a S. Kost-Gagner-Kane line

With the money we have, we can sign Souray and Markov, and either retain Kovalev or try to bid on Timmonen or\and Brière...

FF de Mars is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 03:06 PM
  #42
MM425
Registered User
 
MM425's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,586
vCash: 500
Kane, Ganger, Turris, Voracek... all should turn out to be fine NHLers.

Franchise players though? Not so much... I highly doubt anybody in this draft year will be playing in the league next year... barring a suprise.

I understand people's logic here. They want to draft the next offensive superstar that can be a Hab for years to come. Unfortunately this isn't the year to do it. Coveting a high pick this year is foolish because they'res a darn good chance that the best player that comes out of this draft could be out of the top 5 ( a la' 2000 where the Sens stole Havlat in the late 1st round).

Stick with our picks. If there's a move to be made that benefits the current roster (trading Samsonov or Kovalev) then by all means, do it. But moving up and sacrificing current valueable assets like Ryder, Perezhogin, and Huet? Silly IMO

MM425 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 03:11 PM
  #43
FF de Mars
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: 42 rue Fontaine
Country: Martinique
Posts: 5,918
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mackattack View Post
Kane, Ganger, Turris, Voracek... all should turn out to be fine NHLers.

Franchise players though? Not so much... I highly doubt anybody in this draft year will be playing in the league next year... barring a suprise.

I understand people's logic here. They want to draft the next offensive superstar that can be a Hab for years to come. Unfortunately this isn't the year to do it. Coveting a high pick this year is foolish because they'res a darn good chance that the best player that comes out of this draft could be out of the top 5 ( a la' 2000 where the Sens stole Havlat in the late 1st round).

Stick with our picks. If there's a move to be made that benefits the current roster (trading Samsonov or Kovalev) then by all means, do it. But moving up and sacrificing current valueable assets like Ryder, Perezhogin, and Huet? Silly IMO
Kane can become a star. His only issue is his size, and in the new NHL, it's not that much of an issue anymore, depending on what type of game you play, and we don't play a big boys game anyways.

Cherepanov can become a star as well, he has all it takes... the only thing is that he is a little slow, but again, considering his game, what counts are instincs, passing skills and shooting skills. He has it all except speed.

I agree with you, none of these will be "superstars", but because of that, some teams will be tempted top trade them... which is good for us because there won't be king's ransom kind of trades like there would have been with Crosby, Ovenchkin or Kovalchuk. Kane and Cherepanov will become Spezza type of players, so I expect a Spezza kind of trade : something valuable, but not too much.

FF de Mars is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 03:27 PM
  #44
Habs 4 Life
No Excuses
 
Habs 4 Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Italy
Posts: 32,862
vCash: 500
There were some rumours that the Hawks really wanted Samsonov,maybe they would trade us their 1st overall

Habs 4 Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 03:49 PM
  #45
FF de Mars
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: 42 rue Fontaine
Country: Martinique
Posts: 5,918
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
There were some rumours that the Hawks really wanted Samsonov,maybe they would trade us their 1st overall
Hehehehe...

FF de Mars is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 03:55 PM
  #46
le_sean
Registered User
 
le_sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ottawa
Country: Vatican City State
Posts: 14,976
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
Just like that, if we decide to rebuild :

Koivu, maybe Chipchura and SJ 1st for #1 overall. (or we can ante up to get one of their young D-man that they have in excess)
Then #12 + 2nd rounder for Gagner
And...
We have a S. Kost-Gagner-Kane line

With the money we have, we can sign Souray and Markov, and either retain Kovalev or try to bid on Timmonen or\and Brière...
That line might work in the OHL, but they are a little undersized for the NHL.

If you want a star player in our system, trade for next year's first rounders, get a chance to go for players like Stamkos or Doughty.

le_sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 04:07 PM
  #47
FF de Mars
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: 42 rue Fontaine
Country: Martinique
Posts: 5,918
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
That line might work in the OHL, but they are a little undersized for the NHL.

If you want a star player in our system, trade for next year's first rounders, get a chance to go for players like Stamkos or Doughty.
I don't believe size is an issue in the new NHL. I believe that the habs facilities and coaching staff are better than in the junior leagues. Finally, I believe that having talented young players on your team (if they play) develops your rookies faster and saves up a lot of cash.

FF de Mars is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 04:26 PM
  #48
ChuckyToGally
Former Carey Roy
 
ChuckyToGally's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,720
vCash: 500
The guy we need is John Tavares. I don't care about what Gainey does to get him but we need him. (next year of course)

A TRUE SUPERSTAR!

ChuckyToGally is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 04:47 PM
  #49
le_sean
Registered User
 
le_sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ottawa
Country: Vatican City State
Posts: 14,976
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
I don't believe size is an issue in the new NHL. I believe that the habs facilities and coaching staff are better than in the junior leagues. Finally, I believe that having talented young players on your team (if they play) develops your rookies faster and saves up a lot of cash.
Size is an issue if the whole line is under 6 feet tall and 180 lbs. If you dispersed them among other lines with bigger players then no, it's not that big of an issue.

You also mention saving cap space. For what? The only players in your roster that would make more than $4 million are Koivu, Markov, Souray and Timmonen. Where does the rest of the money go to? Saved cap space does not translate to the next season. You have $48 million (more than likely next year's cap) then you have to spend it, there's no point in saving it.

le_sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-13-2007, 04:50 PM
  #50
FF de Mars
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: 42 rue Fontaine
Country: Martinique
Posts: 5,918
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Size is an issue if the whole line is under 6 feet tall and 180 lbs. If you dispersed them among other lines with bigger players then no, it's not that big of an issue.

You also mention saving cap space. For what? The only players in your roster that would make more than $4 million are Koivu, Markov, Souray and Timmonen. Where does the rest of the money go to? Saved cap space does not translate to the next season. You have $48 million (more than likely next year's cap) then you have to spend it, there's no point in saving it.
Talent, skills and speed are more important than size. If they play against bigger players, especially since no one will use it's best line against a rookie line unless they play too well, they will skate in circles around them.

FF de Mars is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:06 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.