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Crazy Idea #2 : trade up and draft Kane and Gagner

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Old
04-13-2007, 04:56 PM
  #51
le_sean
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Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
Talent, skills and speed are more important than size. If they play against bigger players, especially since no one will use it's best line against a rookie line unless they play too well, they will skate in circles around them.
The perfect example is the Kid line, Higgins - Plekanec - Kostitsyn. Yeah they were good for a few games, but then they disappeared, and that's exactly what you'd get with your team, a lot of inconsitency. That line was supposed to be fast and didn't play the other team's best line, yet they never skated circles around anyone.

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Old
04-13-2007, 05:01 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by perezhogin_19 View Post
The guy we need is John Tavares. I don't care about what Gainey does to get him but we need him. (next year of course)

A TRUE SUPERSTAR!
I'm crossing my fingers. If I were a GM, I'd try to trade up every year until I have a potential contender.

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04-13-2007, 05:09 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
The perfect example is the Kid line, Higgins - Plekanec - Kostitsyn. Yeah they were good for a few games, but then they disappeared, and that's exactly what you'd get with your team, a lot of inconsitency. That line was supposed to be fast and didn't play the other team's best line, yet they never skated circles around anyone.
The Higgins-Pleks-Kost line is the prime example of what I would like to do with the S. Kost-Gagner-Kane line. I think they played well and I kind of thinkl that togheter, they are our first line. Of course, Koivu is better than Pleks, but his line was not better than the Higgins-Pleks-Kost line.

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04-13-2007, 05:12 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
The Higgins-Pleks-Kost line is the prime example of what I would like to do with the S. Kost-Gagner-Kane line. I think they played well and I kind of thinkl that togheter, they are our first line. Of course, Koivu is better than Pleks, but his line was not better than the Higgins-Pleks-Kost line.
There's the new ideology.

I'm with you on that one.

That said, Gainey is not that kind of GM and I can understand why some people don't like this idea.

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Old
04-13-2007, 05:27 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by perezhogin_19 View Post
There's the new ideology.

I'm with you on that one.

That said, Gainey is not that kind of GM and I can understand why some people don't like this idea.
Thanks, I'm also with you man. I like your posts and I always find them interesting. I'm tired of the deadwood, and unlike others, I am for taking drastic measures to get rid of the deadweight and build a contender... because if you don't take drastic measures (Lou Lamoriello with Mogilny and Malakhov is the best exemple), you stay a middle of the pack team.

About Gainey, if he is intelligent, he will adapt to the new NHL. But, he will loose his job if he can't adapt, if he can't evolve, if he continues wasting his money on UFA marginal players (Bonk, Dandy, Begin, Bouillon, Johnson, Murray, Downey, Rivet, and who's next?), if he continues to let the talented rot in the minors (Kost, Grabovski, Beauchemin, Hainsey, Hossa, you have to take a chance, one of them would have broken out and you dump the rest when they ask for real money or when they become 25) and if he doesn't give a proper chance to the players he drafts (He didn't try to sign Emelin last year, and one of O'Bryne, Coté or Fischer have to be NHL ready next year...). Heck, Gainey would rather have Murray and Downey instead of Lapierre or Ferland... he even sent Lapierre to the minors when he was red hot... He would rather waste big money on Dandy and Bouillon instead of playing cheap young and full of potential defencemen like Emelin and O'Bryne... Like if overpaid, small and fringe defencemen who are not good at offence or at defence are beter than rookies who could become top 4 Dman or at worse exactly what Bouillon and Dandy are, but without the high salary.

Anyways, I like Gainey and I don't want him out. I like the fact that he doesn't do stupid trades (except the Niiniimerde for Ribeiro, I would have kept Ribs for the 3rd line and I would not have signed Bonk), I like the fact that he looks like a hard negociator, I like the fact that he won the cup as a player and as a GM, and I think that he is intelligent, but he needs to adapt...

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04-13-2007, 05:33 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
The perfect example is the Kid line, Higgins - Plekanec - Kostitsyn. Yeah they were good for a few games, but then they disappeared, and that's exactly what you'd get with your team, a lot of inconsitency. That line was supposed to be fast and didn't play the other team's best line, yet they never skated circles around anyone.
Hey, but just a friendly question, because you know, who cares if we have opposite views : Why do you not like the Higgins-Pleks-Kost line?

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04-13-2007, 06:04 PM
  #57
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The Habs could draft Clark Kent, Peter Parker, and Bruce Wayne, and then play them together to have a superhero line, too.

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Old
04-13-2007, 06:09 PM
  #58
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The Habs could draft Clark Kent, Peter Parker, and Bruce Wayne, and then play them together to have a superhero line, too.
I'd like that

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Old
04-13-2007, 06:11 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
Thanks, I'm also with you man. I like your posts and I always find them interesting. I'm tired of the deadwood, and unlike others, I am for taking drastic measures to get rid of the deadweight and build a contender... because if you don't take drastic measures (Lou Lamoriello with Mogilny and Malakhov is the best exemple), you stay a middle of the pack team.

About Gainey, if he is intelligent, he will adapt to the new NHL. But, he will loose his job if he can't adapt, if he can't evolve, if he continues wasting his money on UFA marginal players (Bonk, Dandy, Begin, Bouillon, Johnson, Murray, Downey, Rivet, and who's next?), if he continues to let the talented rot in the minors (Kost, Grabovski, Beauchemin, Hainsey, Hossa, you have to take a chance, one of them would have broken out and you dump the rest when they ask for real money or when they become 25) and if he doesn't give a proper chance to the players he drafts (He didn't try to sign Emelin last year, and one of O'Bryne, Coté or Fischer have to be NHL ready next year...). Heck, Gainey would rather have Murray and Downey instead of Lapierre or Ferland... he even sent Lapierre to the minors when he was red hot... He would rather waste big money on Dandy and Bouillon instead of playing cheap young and full of potential defencemen like Emelin and O'Bryne... Like if overpaid, small and fringe defencemen who are not good at offence or at defence are beter than rookies who could become top 4 Dman or at worse exactly what Bouillon and Dandy are, but without the high salary.

Anyways, I like Gainey and I don't want him out. I like the fact that he doesn't do stupid trades (except the Niiniimerde for Ribeiro, I would have kept Ribs for the 3rd line and I would not have signed Bonk), I like the fact that he looks like a hard negociator, I like the fact that he won the cup as a player and as a GM, and I think that he is intelligent, but he needs to adapt...

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Old
04-13-2007, 06:38 PM
  #60
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...

And we have to stop thinking like Montreal fans from 1994 to 2007... We need a new era, a better era, an era with ambition.

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04-13-2007, 06:46 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
Hey, but just a friendly question, because you know, who cares if we have opposite views : Why do you not like the Higgins-Pleks-Kost line?
No, I like it, I think they compliment each other pretty well. But you have to admit that they are inconsistent being young and all, it happens with everyone (except for players like Crosby and Ovechkin). There are growing pains with all young players, thats why it hurts if you become too dependent on them for production.

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Old
04-13-2007, 07:17 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
No, I like it, I think they compliment each other pretty well. But you have to admit that they are inconsistent being young and all, it happens with everyone (except for players like Crosby and Ovechkin). There are growing pains with all young players, thats why it hurts if you become too dependent on them for production.
I agree, that's why I want the kids line to be the 4th line. Next year, the Higgins-Pleks-Kost line should be able to play like a second line. But, would you rather have a kids line as a 4th line or a line filled with nobodies that suck and that are challenged offencively? With a cap world, the only way to build a team which constantly run 4 offencive line is to have a kids line every year. Well, at least, it's my conclusion. But here is the question, would you rather play Bonk, Johnson and Begin? I think that the three above are worse than S Kost-Gagner-Kane : they cost more, have do not generate offence and have no upside. They are warm bodies stealing development time.

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04-13-2007, 07:39 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
I agree, that's why I want the kids line to be the 4th line. Next year, the Higgins-Pleks-Kost line should be able to play like a second line. But, would you rather have a kids line as a 4th line or a line filled with nobodies that suck and that are challenged offencively? With a cap world, the only way to build a team which constantly run 4 offencive line is to have a kids line every year. Well, at least, it's my conclusion. But here is the question, would you rather play Bonk, Johnson and Begin? I think that the three above are worse than S Kost-Gagner-Kane : they cost more, have do not generate offence and have no upside. They are warm bodies stealing development time.
I rather have a vets playing 10 mintues per game than a rookie that's for sure, it just going to hurt there development if not. you can't bring a rookie type offensive player who is used to playing 18-20 minutes per night and put them on the 4 th line getting 10 minutes per game and not expect it to hurt there development.

besides all that all we would hear in here is a bunch of whining as to why they are on the 4th line playing 10 minutes per game or why they aren't out there in the last 5 mintues of the game. why do you think Kost Sr. didn't get a permanent spot until Sammy was removed from the lineup? because there wasn't enough top line minutes for him to be effective until then.

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Old
04-14-2007, 12:44 AM
  #64
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I rather have a vets playing 10 mintues per game than a rookie that's for sure, it just going to hurt there development if not. you can't bring a rookie type offensive player who is used to playing 18-20 minutes per night and put them on the 4 th line getting 10 minutes per game and not expect it to hurt there development.

besides all that all we would hear in here is a bunch of whining as to why they are on the 4th line playing 10 minutes per game or why they aren't out there in the last 5 mintues of the game. why do you think Kost Sr. didn't get a permanent spot until Sammy was removed from the lineup? because there wasn't enough top line minutes for him to be effective until then.
There are 60 minutes to be played and there are 4 good lines, which means that each line should play 15 minutes.

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Old
04-14-2007, 02:11 PM
  #65
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Why would you even WANT both players? How often does it happen that two teammates in junior become superstars? I can see if the Habs' scouting staff are very high on both, sure...but odds are if they want two highly touted picks, it would be one of either Kane or Gagner.
Sedins? Lecavalier and Richards? and I'm sure there are others...

I'd go for Kane... and maybe Gagner will fall late enough in the draft that we can get him with SJ's pick... who knows

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