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Old
06-15-2007, 10:19 AM
  #101
CapitalsCupFantasy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
So a Vet = someone over 30

I don't care how old the player is, i just want someone who can play.

Exactly....I would prefer a guy who was younger than 30, has produced for a handful of years. Wait....a name is coming to me.....G O M E Z!

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06-15-2007, 10:24 AM
  #102
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Hmm....I see all this Kubina talk. Would McCabe make more sense? Doesn't he have a shorter contract? I know he makes more, but wouldn't he help the PP better than Kubina?

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06-15-2007, 10:33 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by shanwon View Post
Hmm....I see all this Kubina talk. Would McCabe make more sense? Doesn't he have a shorter contract? I know he makes more, but wouldn't he help the PP better than Kubina?

I don't think they would give McCabe up.

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06-15-2007, 10:35 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Backstrom #19 View Post
I don't think they would give McCabe up.
Priceless.

We'd give up McCabe in a heartbeat. BTW, Wellwood and Kaberle are OFF LIMITS!

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06-15-2007, 10:36 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by HockeyisGodsSport View Post


Priceless.

We'd give up McCabe in a heartbeat.

That's what I thought. He's taken a ton of heat lately.


Anyone know how many years he has left on his deal?

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06-15-2007, 10:38 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by HockeyisGodsSport View Post
Priceless.

We'd give up McCabe in a heartbeat. BTW, Wellwood and Kaberle are OFF LIMITS!

i was thinking of Kaberle, my bad. McCabe would be good but Kubina is a better all-around guy right.

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06-15-2007, 10:42 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by shanwon View Post
That's what I thought. He's taken a ton of heat lately.


Anyone know how many years he has left on his deal?
5.75 million per/year for the next 4 years with a no movement clause.


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06-15-2007, 10:44 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Backstrom #19 View Post
i was thinking of Kaberle, my bad. McCabe would be good but Kubina is a better all-around guy right.
Agreed, good observation. Kaberle is definetly off limits, he's our superstar here in Toronto.

As for Kubina / McCabe, Kubina would make more sense. He makes 750, 000 less, doesn't have a NTC, 3 years left in his contract and is better defensively than McCabe.

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06-15-2007, 10:47 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by HockeyisGodsSport View Post
5.75 million per/year for the next 4 years with a no movement clause.


Hmm....NHLPA.COM shows his salary as $7.150 mill.

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06-15-2007, 10:50 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shanwon View Post
Hmm....NHLPA.COM shows his salary as $7.150 mill.
That's how much he is making. The actual salary cap hit is 5.75 million, which is what matters.

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06-15-2007, 10:54 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyisGodsSport View Post
Agreed, good observation. Kaberle is definetly off limits, he's our superstar here in Toronto.

As for Kubina / McCabe, Kubina would make more sense. He makes 750, 000 less, doesn't have a NTC, 3 years left in his contract and is better defensively than McCabe.
If it's really only $750k it makes little to no difference honestly. Kubina might be better defensively, but McCabe is light years ahead offensively. We need both types of skill sets injected into our D corp right now. If I had my way, I would prefer McCabe to give Mike Green someone to emulate so he develops into that type of offensive player.

I would rather add McCabe and a cheap vet defensive defender personally.


Mo McCabe
Pothier Jurcina
Green Vet defensive defender

Schultz

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06-15-2007, 10:54 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by shanwon View Post
Hmm....NHLPA.COM shows his salary as $7.150 mill.
It is not about the one season salary, which is all NHLPA reports, it is about the cap hit, which is what the poster included; McCabe's salary is not constant over the length of the contract...it starts at 7.15 and then drops to 4.15M in later seasons and has a 'no movement clause'.

I have heard plenty of conflicting reports about whether Kubina has a NTC or not, some have said he has a conditional NTC (i.e., a list of teams) and others have said he does not have one.) Kaberle has a NTC and is the least likely to be moved even if he did not.

Any of the Leafs fans chiming in care to offer any insights into Kubina's NTC status?

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06-15-2007, 10:59 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyisGodsSport View Post
That's how much he is making. The actual salary cap hit is 5.75 million, which is what matters.

OK 5 yrs, $28.75 mill deal....I guess heavily frontloaded? And no....the salary and cap hit matter to our ownership.

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06-15-2007, 11:00 AM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shanwon View Post
If it's really only $750k it makes little to no difference honestly. Kubina might be better defensively, but McCabe is light years ahead offensively. We need both types of skill sets injected into our D corp right now. If I had my way, I would prefer McCabe to give Mike Green someone to emulate so he develops into that type of offensive player.

I would rather add McCabe and a cheap vet defensive defender personally.


Mo McCabe
Pothier Jurcina
Green Vet defensive defender

Schultz
McCabe really isn't that great offensively though, you'll need a Tomas Kaberle type player to feed him the puck perfectly on the PP if you expect the same kind of results he's getting here in Toronto.

But really, It's unrealistic McCabe would go to Washington. The only team I see him waiving his NMC to is the Islanders.

Kubina would be the only logical defenseman from the Leafs I see going to the Capitals.

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06-15-2007, 11:00 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by sk84fun_dc View Post
It is not about the one season salary, which is all NHLPA reports, it is about the cap hit, which is what the poster included; McCabe's salary is not constant over the length of the contract...it starts at 7.15 and then drops to 4.15M in later seasons and has a 'no movement clause'.

I have heard plenty of conflicting reports about whether Kubina has a NTC or not, some have said he has a conditional NTC (i.e., a list of teams) and others have said he does not have one.) Kaberle has a NTC and is the least likely to be moved even if he did not.

Any of the Leafs fans chiming in care to offer any insights into Kubina's NTC status?

Jesus....relax you two...I realize the cap # matters....but not really to us who can't even see the cap ceiling.

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06-15-2007, 11:03 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shanwon View Post
OK 5 yrs, $28.75 mill deal....I guess heavily frontloaded? And no....the salary and cap hit matter to our ownership.
Salary and cap hit matter for all teams/ownership/players for different reasons and to different extents. There are reasons some contracts are frontloaded or backloaded while others are even across the life of the contract. For an owner like Leonsis the dollars due are important along with the cap hit.

For the Leafs fans in this discussion looking at making cap room, the cap hit figure is what matters to them more than the salary per season.

and seeing your latest post, just offering clarification based on your post...I responded at the same time as the other poster, not on top of the other post; there are plenty of misconceptions still out there about salary vs cap hit; simple advice, I wouldn't rely on the NHLPA site when discussing contracts.


Last edited by sk84fun_dc: 06-15-2007 at 11:05 AM. Reason: update to respond to additional post
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06-15-2007, 11:07 AM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyisGodsSport View Post
McCabe really isn't that great offensively though, you'll need a Tomas Kaberle type player to feed him the puck perfectly on the PP if you expect the same kind of results he's getting here in Toronto.

For not that great...he's got pretty solid #'s.

Averaging 14+ goals over the past 5 yrs and 57 and 68 pts respectively the past two season is about the entire sum of the Caps offensive output from the blueline.

I feel pretty good about Backstrom, Semin, Ovechkin and whoever our FA center aquisition is, feeding him.

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06-15-2007, 11:10 AM
  #118
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btw...

Bryan was traded on February 6 with Todd Bertuzzi and a third-round draft pick to the Vancouver Canucks for Trevor Linden.

This looks like one of the worst trades ever in retrospect.

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06-15-2007, 11:29 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by HockeyisGodsSport View Post
Kubina would be the only logical defenseman from the Leafs I see going to the Capitals.
Doesn't he have a NTC as well? That's what TU said on the Leafs board, anyway. Perhaps Kubina would waive it since he'd be guaranteed more ice-time and a bigger role? Hard to say.

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06-15-2007, 11:32 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by ididitlangway View Post
Doesn't he have a NTC as well? That's what TU said on the Leafs board, anyway. Perhaps Kubina would waive it since he'd be guaranteed more ice-time and a bigger role? Hard to say.
I'm pretty sure Kaberle and McCabe are the only Leaf defenseman who have NTC''s, not Kubina.

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06-15-2007, 11:49 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by ididitlangway View Post
Doesn't he have a NTC as well? That's what TU said on the Leafs board, anyway. Perhaps Kubina would waive it since he'd be guaranteed more ice-time and a bigger role? Hard to say.
Yeah, I asked about that in my earlier post since there appears to be a lot of confusion on message boards about whether Kubina has a NTC and whether it is a 'full NTC' or a conditional NTC even if there is one.

regarding Toronto and NTC/NMC:
McCabe, NMC
Kaberle, NTC
Sundin, NTC in new contract if I heard correctly
Tucker, NTC for first 3 years of contract

Kubina???

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06-15-2007, 12:22 PM
  #122
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My impression was that only Kaberle and McCabe had NTC's - not Kubina.

McCabe was bad last year, real bad, and traditionally I've been a big fan. Kaberle carried his azz all year, at both ends of the ice. McCabe has always been a little bit dangerous defensively but last year he just fought the puck and gave it away time and time again - and on top of that what I loved him for in prior seasons, the warrior mentality of a guy that will block pucks with his teeth, just wasn't there this season.

Muddles up what I think about the McCabe to DC idea, if he plays like he did last season without Kaberle to move the puck out of the zone for him then the deal could be a catastrophic failure for the Caps. McCabe was a turnover machine last year, I can't stress enough how much he owes Kaberle for keeping his season looking respectable on the surface.

2 years ago I'd have given the farm for McCabe, now he scares me a little esp considering the corps as it exists in DC. Plus he's a difficult player to mix in for an offensive guy (much like Souray) because he's not actually very good skating or moving the puck when he's not already on the offensive zone blueline so you can;t just saddle him up with a defensive type guy and expect things to work out. He'd have to play with someone like Pothier (not Morrisson or Erskine or whomever else) and it's not easy to find a puck moving d-man that's as slick in his own zone as Kaberle was for McCabe, or Markov was for Souray.

Can't believe I'm saying this but I'd prefer Kubina.

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06-15-2007, 12:28 PM
  #123
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Based on the games I watched, I agree about Kaberle, but I can't say I watched all that many Leafs games last season.

It would be nice if there was a reliable list of NTC and NMCs....but I am not aware of one...in most cases, we have to rely on info from the media/interviews, etc., for the info. I have been trying to put together a list in the trades section in a thread titled No Movement Clause...I asked the question about Kubina there, as well, same confusion.

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06-15-2007, 12:58 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by HockeyisGodsSport View Post
That's how much he is making. The actual salary cap hit is 5.75 million, which is what matters.
Actually, here in DC, the amount of money the guy makes is more important than his cap hit, due to our owner's notorious frugality. In Toronto the money doesn't matter, you've got a golden goose there. Not here. 7 mill is far more than Leonsis will pay a defenseman

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06-15-2007, 01:01 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by shanwon View Post
Jesus....relax you two...I realize the cap # matters....but not really to us who can't even see the cap ceiling.
There's a cap ceiling in DC: it's what Leonsis is willing to spend on the team. It'll almost certainly be around $40 mill this year, depending on how much the cap actually is.

I'm firmly in the Kubina corner. He'd bring a lot to this team and if Toronto is willing to take some salary going the other way, it could get done in real life, not just message board fantasizing

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