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Analysis of Lowe's GM history

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Old
12-18-2003, 03:43 PM
  #1
Master Lok
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Analysis of Lowe's GM history

Lowe has been under fire in the media and from some posters for his handling of Comrie.

I'd just like to post one person's opinion of Lowe's tenure so far. Please agree or disagree as you wish.

June 2000 - Lowe is hired as GM as Sather runs away to the Rangers.

2000
June - The Oilers leave Devereaux unprotected in the expansion draft as medical advice seems to indicate that his concussion history has finished his career. Jim Dowd and Bert Robertsson gets picked up by Minnesota. Devereaux eventually signs with Detroit as he is not qualified by the Oil.

Rating - C: While losing Dowd as a solid veteran 4th line centre hurt, it did free up room on the roster for a young Horcoff. Losing Devereaux hurt as he was our first round pick, but in the end, he never developed into a scoring centre and has continued to be a role player for Detroit. And according to the medical opinion, he was badly hurt by the concussion.

June - Drafted Alex Mihknov, Brad Winchester, and Alex Ljubinov

Rating - D: While still young, none of the three have showed any real possibility of joining the NHL club anytime soon. Mikhnov is apparently doing well in Russia, but has never come over to North America.

June - traded Roman Hamrlik for Eric Brewer, 2nd round pick (Winchester) and winger Josh Green.

Rating - B-: Trading away a proven asset for unproven assets are always risky. Winchester and Green has not panned out. Brewer has and is still developing. So in essence we traded an older top 2 defenseman who whose contract we couldn't afford for a younger top 2 defenseman whose contract we could afford. Unfortunately the other throw-ins didn't develop but we needed to trade away Hamrlik. Lowe tied on this trade (neither win or lost).

July - signed Scott Ferguson as a FA.

Rating B: For the amount of money that the Oil signed him for, Ferguson has proven to be a solid 6th/7th defenseman providing toughness, and a never-complain attitude. Well-suited to that role.

November - Trade Guerin to Boston for Anson Carter, 2001 2nd round pick, a choice of flipping 2001 or 2002 1st round pick and future considerations.

Rating B+: A straight Guerin for Carter trade ? Yuck. But consider that Guerin was going to be UFA at the end of next season and who the Oil picked with their draft, this was a great trade by Lowe. Also consider that Boston was unable to re-sign Guerin and he left Boston as a UFA, Boston really got reamed in this deal. Lowe won this trade.

December - signed Comrie to a $1 million rookie salary cap contract for three years with incentives to boost it up to $9 million.

Rating B: What? B? why on earth... because if Comrie wasn't signed by July 2001, he would have become a UFA due to the Van Ryn collegiate loophole. Lowe had to get Comrie to sign in order to retain ANY rights to Comrie. What was not foreseen was how quickly Comrie was able to adapt to the NHL game and earn his incentives. I remember the intense fan pressure at the time to get the deal done and to sign this hometown hero. It was INTENSE! The fans wanted it, Edmonton wanted it, the Oil wanted it, so Lowe got the job done.

2001
March - Oil trade Dan Lacouture for Sven Boutenshon.

Rating C: Who cares. A journeyman-to-be winger for journey-man-to-be defenseman.

May - Oil sign Marc Andre Bergeron

Rating A: not bad. signing an undrafted prospect out of the blue who eventually makes the NHL club. Can't say anything wrong about that.

June - Oilers draft Ales Hemsky, Doug Lynch and Jussi Maarkanen

Rating A: fantastic pickup at #13 for Hemsky. Lynch looks like he's developing well with the Roadrunners and Maarkenen steps in to play right away as a backup netminder. Thank you Boston for the draft picks.

July - Oilers trade Doug Weight and Michel Reisen for Marty Reasoner, Jan Horacek and Jochen Hecht.

Rating C: Horrible trade ... unless you consider the fact that Weight was going to be a pending UFA and there was no way in hell that Oil would be able to sign him. Still not a great trade since Reasoner did not pan out to be a top two centre, neither did Hecht. The only saving grace is that Reasoner is developing into a strong two way 3rd line centre with still a possibility for more while Hecht netted two great draft picks. Lowe lost this trade.

July - Oilers did not re-sign Ulanov, a UFA, who signs with the Rangers for $6 million for 3 years.

Rating B+: Wow. In hindsight, thank god Lowe did not sign this dude for anywhere near that money. whew! While he played great for us, he played absolutely lousy for the Rags. Maybe it was the Rangers team, or the coaches, or the money, or his age, or injuries, but he just sucked bigtime when he left the Oil.

July - Oil sign Steve Staois for a three year $2.85 million contract.

Rating A+++: My god. This was so fantastic a FA signing at that price that it defies description. Why can't all players drop like this into our lap?


2002
March - Oilers trade Sean Brown to Boston for prospect Bobby Allen.

Rating D: I never understood this trade. Brown never panned out as a top 4 defenseman, always on the bubble as the sixth defenseman but I really liked how he always stepped up to protect smaller teammates. Ok, so we traded him. For Allen? A 23 year old prospect? Wierd. Why not a draft pick or something a little bit more useful?


March - Oilers trade Tom Poti and Rem Murray to Rangers for Mike York and 4th round 2002 draft pick.

Rating B: As much as I liked Poti's talents, his several contract holdouts and lack of defensive consistency pissed me off. Too bad we had to lose Murray in the trade, but he was a journeyman centre who was never going to develop farther along the line. Free up a roster spot for Horcoff or someone further down the line. York is an incredible talent, hardworking, has some decent hands, can play PP, PK all for a reasonable contract. Lowe won this trade hands down.


June - Oilers acquire Jiri Dopita from the Flyers for 2003 3rd round pick.

Rating D-: I'll give Kevin Lowe points for trying something to shore up the 2nd line centre position. But man Dopita was soooo not the answer. At least we didn't give up much, only a 3rd round pick. Lowe lost on this trade.

June - Oilers trade Hecht for two second round draft picks in the upcoming draft.

Rating B-: two second round draft choices for a second line winger that doesn't seem to be panning out? heck why not?

June - Oilers draft Niiniimaki, Deslauriers and Stoll

Rating B: Looks like a very promising draft. Stoll has made it onto the NHL club. Deslauriers looks good enough to be considered for WJC - Canada. Niiniimaki is very much an unknown. Forsberg of the future?

July - Oilers re-sign Todd Marchant a one year contract at below the league average. Meaning he becomes a UFA at the end of the year.

Rating F: I believe that Lowe wanted to improve the centres on the club by getting bigger but with as few assets as the Oilers have, couldn't he have at least traded Marchant away than let him go?


October - Oilers trade Mike Grier to Washington for a 2nd round and 3rd round 2003 draft picks.

Rating C: Grier was simply making too much money for an every other year injured 3rd line RW. His place was opened up for Pisani as a cheaper, younger replacement. Getting two draft picks for a solid veteran banger... good return.

2003

March - Oilers trade Anson Carter and Ales Pisa for Radek Dvorak and Corey Cross.

Rating A: Just what the Oilers needed. Carter was due for another pay raise next season, but he was extremely streaky. Pisa was a young defender who finally seemed to turn the corner to make the bigs. Result: Dvorak has far outplayed Carter showing strong two way play as the second line RW and playing a consistently strong game. Cross has become the reliable and 4th/5th steady defenseman who's smart enough to pot the odd goal. Carter is rumored to be trade bait in NYR as he has only 11 pts in 28 games and is showing inconsistent play. Pisa left the NHL to play in Europe. He won this trade bigtime, how did Lowe know?

March - Oilers trade Janne Niiniimaa and 2003 2nd round to NYI for Raffi Torres and Brad Isbister.

Rating B: While the loss of Niiniimaa has hurt the Oiler defense, Torres has exploded onto the second line. Isbister is inconsistent being extremely unlucky with fluke injuries. Niiniimaa by comparison, is now the 4th defense for NYI playing weaker than expected, probably due to his injury history. So far, the trade is fairly even but Torres is extremely promising.

I noted that very few of the transactions did Lowe lose out on. The big poor decisions include Marchant's below average deal, Dopita experiment. The poor return on Doug Weights deal was alleviated by the Hecht's subsequent trade and excellent drafting of Deslauriers and Stoll. He has brought in Torres, Hemsky, Oates, York, Brewer, Dvorak, Isbister, Cross, Staios, Bergeron through drafting and trading away Hamrlik, Carter, Guerin, Niiniimaa. Not bad.

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Old
12-18-2003, 03:52 PM
  #2
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Your ratings and reasoning on some seem kinda shady...

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12-18-2003, 03:53 PM
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Marchant: The problem with Marchant is that he was coming off one of his worst seasons in his career. The only reason he had 60 points was because of injury. If York, Comrie, Smyth hadn't been injured, Marchant would never have been on the first line. That's the only reason he had so many points.

Hecht: I like the Hecht trade. The problem with Hecht was that he didn't really want to be in Edmonton. Th at's why he signed with a club team in Germany. I think KL wasn't too impressed with that tactic.

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12-18-2003, 03:56 PM
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Nice analysis. The only one I have issue with is the Marchant stuff. Ya, we might have been able to trade him away, but I'm not sure we would have got much in return. By keeping him we give ourselves a chance for playoffs - he did play great that year remember - and we provide one more year for our younger centres to develop before we throw them in. It's nice to think we could have got a d-man back for him, but realistically if we lose him that year we would have had to get a centre back and I don't know if there were any centre's worth getting. Tough call I guess.

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12-18-2003, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky83
Hecht: I like the Hecht trade. The problem with Hecht was that he didn't really want to be in Edmonton. Th at's why he signed with a club team in Germany. I think KL wasn't too impressed with that tactic.
I thought he was close to signing with a club team before he reached a 3-year deal with the Oilers.

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12-18-2003, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by York16
I thought he was close to signing with a club team before he reached a 3-year deal with the Oilers.
If I can find the article of Hecht I'll post it. Hecht had signed with a club team in Germany. Then he came to terms with Edmonton.

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12-18-2003, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PineJockey
Nice analysis. The only one I have issue with is the Marchant stuff. Ya, we might have been able to trade him away, but I'm not sure we would have got much in return. By keeping him we give ourselves a chance for playoffs - he did play great that year remember - and we provide one more year for our younger centres to develop before we throw them in. It's nice to think we could have got a d-man back for him, but realistically if we lose him that year we would have had to get a centre back and I don't know if there were any centre's worth getting. Tough call I guess.
Oh I agree. I was wondering why Lowe didn't sign him for $500,000 more and retain his rights for another year (i.e. MORE than the league average) and just trade him at the start of the 2003 season for a prospect, draft pick, bag of pucks...

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12-18-2003, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky83
If I can find the article of Hecht I'll post it. Hecht had signed with a club team in Germany. Then he came to terms with Edmonton.
You're right:

Quote:
Oilers sign center JOCHEN HECHT to a three-year, $3.2 million contract. The signing comes after Hecht had signed a deal to play for the Mannheim Eagles in the German Elite League, but that contract had an out clause if he reached an agreement with the Oilers. Hecht, who was acquired from St. Louis in the Doug Weight trade, signed for $825,000 this season, $1.075 million for the second year and $1.3 million for the final season.
http://members.shaw.ca/stevesoilerss...uneToSept.html

About half-way down the page.


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12-18-2003, 04:20 PM
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Note when he was hired and the first draft

Quote:
Originally Posted by neogeo69
Lowe has been under fire in the media and from some posters for his handling of Comrie.

I'd just like to post one person's opinion of Lowe's tenure so far. Please agree or disagree as you wish.

June 2000 - Lowe is hired as GM as Sather runs away to the Rangers.

2000
June - The Oilers leave Devereaux unprotected in the expansion draft as medical advice seems to indicate that his concussion history has finished his career. Jim Dowd and Bert Robertsson gets picked up by Minnesota. Devereaux eventually signs with Detroit as he is not qualified by the Oil.

Rating - C: While losing Dowd as a solid veteran 4th line centre hurt, it did free up room on the roster for a young Horcoff. Losing Devereaux hurt as he was our first round pick, but in the end, he never developed into a scoring centre and has continued to be a role player for Detroit. And according to the medical opinion, he was badly hurt by the concussion.

June - Drafted Alex Mihknov, Brad Winchester, and Alex Ljubinov

Rating - D: While still young, none of the three have showed any real possibility of joining the NHL club anytime soon. Mikhnov is apparently doing well in Russia, but has never come over to North America.

June - traded Roman Hamrlik for Eric Brewer, 2nd round pick (Winchester) and winger Josh Green.

Rating - B-: Trading away a proven asset for unproven assets are always risky. Winchester and Green has not panned out. Brewer has and is still developing. So in essence we traded an older top 2 defenseman who whose contract we couldn't afford for a younger top 2 defenseman whose contract we could afford. Unfortunately the other throw-ins didn't develop but we needed to trade away Hamrlik. Lowe tied on this trade (neither win or lost).

July - signed Scott Ferguson as a FA.

Rating B: For the amount of money that the Oil signed him for, Ferguson has proven to be a solid 6th/7th defenseman providing toughness, and a never-complain attitude. Well-suited to that role.

November - Trade Guerin to Boston for Anson Carter, 2001 2nd round pick, a choice of flipping 2001 or 2002 1st round pick and future considerations.

Rating B+: A straight Guerin for Carter trade ? Yuck. But consider that Guerin was going to be UFA at the end of next season and who the Oil picked with their draft, this was a great trade by Lowe. Also consider that Boston was unable to re-sign Guerin and he left Boston as a UFA, Boston really got reamed in this deal. Lowe won this trade.

December - signed Comrie to a $1 million rookie salary cap contract for three years with incentives to boost it up to $9 million.

Rating B: What? B? why on earth... because if Comrie wasn't signed by July 2001, he would have become a UFA due to the Van Ryn collegiate loophole. Lowe had to get Comrie to sign in order to retain ANY rights to Comrie. What was not foreseen was how quickly Comrie was able to adapt to the NHL game and earn his incentives. I remember the intense fan pressure at the time to get the deal done and to sign this hometown hero. It was INTENSE! The fans wanted it, Edmonton wanted it, the Oil wanted it, so Lowe got the job done.

2001
March - Oil trade Dan Lacouture for Sven Boutenshon.

Rating C: Who cares. A journeyman-to-be winger for journey-man-to-be defenseman.

May - Oil sign Marc Andre Bergeron

Rating A: not bad. signing an undrafted prospect out of the blue who eventually makes the NHL club. Can't say anything wrong about that.

June - Oilers draft Ales Hemsky, Doug Lynch and Jussi Maarkanen

Rating A: fantastic pickup at #13 for Hemsky. Lynch looks like he's developing well with the Roadrunners and Maarkenen steps in to play right away as a backup netminder. Thank you Boston for the draft picks.

July - Oilers trade Doug Weight and Michel Reisen for Marty Reasoner, Jan Horacek and Jochen Hecht.

Rating C: Horrible trade ... unless you consider the fact that Weight was going to be a pending UFA and there was no way in hell that Oil would be able to sign him. Still not a great trade since Reasoner did not pan out to be a top two centre, neither did Hecht. The only saving grace is that Reasoner is developing into a strong two way 3rd line centre with still a possibility for more while Hecht netted two great draft picks. Lowe lost this trade.

July - Oilers did not re-sign Ulanov, a UFA, who signs with the Rangers for $6 million for 3 years.

Rating B+: Wow. In hindsight, thank god Lowe did not sign this dude for anywhere near that money. whew! While he played great for us, he played absolutely lousy for the Rags. Maybe it was the Rangers team, or the coaches, or the money, or his age, or injuries, but he just sucked bigtime when he left the Oil.

July - Oil sign Steve Staois for a three year $2.85 million contract.

Rating A+++: My god. This was so fantastic a FA signing at that price that it defies description. Why can't all players drop like this into our lap?


2002
March - Oilers trade Sean Brown to Boston for prospect Bobby Allen.

Rating D: I never understood this trade. Brown never panned out as a top 4 defenseman, always on the bubble as the sixth defenseman but I really liked how he always stepped up to protect smaller teammates. Ok, so we traded him. For Allen? A 23 year old prospect? Wierd. Why not a draft pick or something a little bit more useful?


March - Oilers trade Tom Poti and Rem Murray to Rangers for Mike York and 4th round 2002 draft pick.

Rating B: As much as I liked Poti's talents, his several contract holdouts and lack of defensive consistency pissed me off. Too bad we had to lose Murray in the trade, but he was a journeyman centre who was never going to develop farther along the line. Free up a roster spot for Horcoff or someone further down the line. York is an incredible talent, hardworking, has some decent hands, can play PP, PK all for a reasonable contract. Lowe won this trade hands down.


June - Oilers acquire Jiri Dopita from the Flyers for 2003 3rd round pick.

Rating D-: I'll give Kevin Lowe points for trying something to shore up the 2nd line centre position. But man Dopita was soooo not the answer. At least we didn't give up much, only a 3rd round pick. Lowe lost on this trade.

June - Oilers trade Hecht for two second round draft picks in the upcoming draft.

Rating B-: two second round draft choices for a second line winger that doesn't seem to be panning out? heck why not?

June - Oilers draft Niiniimaki, Deslauriers and Stoll

Rating B: Looks like a very promising draft. Stoll has made it onto the NHL club. Deslauriers looks good enough to be considered for WJC - Canada. Niiniimaki is very much an unknown. Forsberg of the future?

July - Oilers re-sign Todd Marchant a one year contract at below the league average. Meaning he becomes a UFA at the end of the year.

Rating F: I believe that Lowe wanted to improve the centres on the club by getting bigger but with as few assets as the Oilers have, couldn't he have at least traded Marchant away than let him go?


October - Oilers trade Mike Grier to Washington for a 2nd round and 3rd round 2003 draft picks.

Rating C: Grier was simply making too much money for an every other year injured 3rd line RW. His place was opened up for Pisani as a cheaper, younger replacement. Getting two draft picks for a solid veteran banger... good return.

2003

March - Oilers trade Anson Carter and Ales Pisa for Radek Dvorak and Corey Cross.

Rating A: Just what the Oilers needed. Carter was due for another pay raise next season, but he was extremely streaky. Pisa was a young defender who finally seemed to turn the corner to make the bigs. Result: Dvorak has far outplayed Carter showing strong two way play as the second line RW and playing a consistently strong game. Cross has become the reliable and 4th/5th steady defenseman who's smart enough to pot the odd goal. Carter is rumored to be trade bait in NYR as he has only 11 pts in 28 games and is showing inconsistent play. Pisa left the NHL to play in Europe. He won this trade bigtime, how did Lowe know?

March - Oilers trade Janne Niiniimaa and 2003 2nd round to NYI for Raffi Torres and Brad Isbister.

Rating B: While the loss of Niiniimaa has hurt the Oiler defense, Torres has exploded onto the second line. Isbister is inconsistent being extremely unlucky with fluke injuries. Niiniimaa by comparison, is now the 4th defense for NYI playing weaker than expected, probably due to his injury history. So far, the trade is fairly even but Torres is extremely promising.

I noted that very few of the transactions did Lowe lose out on. The big poor decisions include Marchant's below average deal, Dopita experiment. The poor return on Doug Weights deal was alleviated by the Hecht's subsequent trade and excellent drafting of Deslauriers and Stoll. He has brought in Torres, Hemsky, Oates, York, Brewer, Dvorak, Isbister, Cross, Staios, Bergeron through drafting and trading away Hamrlik, Carter, Guerin, Niiniimaa. Not bad.
Kevin had nothing to do with the first draft so that should still be under the Sather and Fraser regime.

The only other thing I disagree with the Sean Brown trade. Sean Brown was in our pressbox at the time of the trade which people have seem to forgot and Sean Brown is not in the NHL showing that he obviously had some things missing in his game. I would rate the trade a C, according to your grading system.

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Old
12-18-2003, 04:46 PM
  #10
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although Lowe lost on the Weight trade let's be honest it was never a trade he was going to win in the first place, so the way i see it is at least we got something back as opposed for nothing.

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12-18-2003, 05:45 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neogeo69
Oh I agree. I was wondering why Lowe didn't sign him for $500,000 more and retain his rights for another year (i.e. MORE than the league average) and just trade him at the start of the 2003 season for a prospect, draft pick, bag of pucks...
Marchant never would have signed for that little. He agreed to sign for less so that he would be free to go out and sell himself to the highest bidder, but if it wasn't below the league average he would have fought Lowe tooth and nail for as high a contract as possible. Likely he would have held out reducing his trade value even more. Plus, as someone else mentioned, he was coming off a bad season and I doubt Lowe would have been willing (even if he had been able) to give him a big increase.

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12-18-2003, 06:07 PM
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ok, lets go through this one last time

doug weight for hecht + reasoner.

it was ONE year of doug weight. STOP, digest that. It was ONE year of doug weight for hecht and reasoner.



In that year, doug outscored hecht by 6 points, had a worse +/-, and cost an extra 8 million dollars. 6 frickin points for 8 million dollars. That year, the Blues lost over 20 million dollars. After that year, dougie would have been ufa and he was gone.

The only way Lowe lost that trade is if your are playing nhl2000 video game. In the real world, that 8 mill works out to an extra 12 dollars a ticket. Doug weight makes absolutely zero sense in today's NHL and the Blues would gladly trade him straight across right now for Reasoner. If any GM offered the Blues a great young checking centre who is cheap and is the best +/- guy on his team plus stoll plus JDD, the Blues would be all over that.

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12-19-2003, 08:02 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by York16
Your ratings and reasoning on some seem kinda shady...
Why? Can you explain that comment? Which ones don't you agree with?

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12-19-2003, 08:04 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich
ok, lets go through this one last time

doug weight for hecht + reasoner.

it was ONE year of doug weight. STOP, digest that. It was ONE year of doug weight for hecht and reasoner.



In that year, doug outscored hecht by 6 points, had a worse +/-, and cost an extra 8 million dollars. 6 frickin points for 8 million dollars. That year, the Blues lost over 20 million dollars. After that year, dougie would have been ufa and he was gone.

The only way Lowe lost that trade is if your are playing nhl2000 video game. In the real world, that 8 mill works out to an extra 12 dollars a ticket. Doug weight makes absolutely zero sense in today's NHL and the Blues would gladly trade him straight across right now for Reasoner. If any GM offered the Blues a great young checking centre who is cheap and is the best +/- guy on his team plus stoll plus JDD, the Blues would be all over that.
Great point on the "one year of Weight" business - didn't realize he had 6 more points than Hecht that year, but wasn't that with some injuries?

In any case, Doug Weight does NOT making absolutely zero sense in today's NHL, but Weight at $8 million...well, that's probably what you meant. I'd love to have Weight back here again, but obviously not for anywhere near $8M.

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12-19-2003, 08:54 AM
  #15
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doug weight is the perfect example of what is wrong with the nhl. 8 mill for one player who isn't one of the four best players on your team is absolutely ridiculous. If I had to pick guys off the STL roster, I would have pronger, maciinis, demitra, and tkachuk before dougie any day yet 12$ of every ticket goes to the injury prone 2nd assist specialist.

The thing that really irritates me is that people say the trade was weight for hecht + reasoner when it was one year of doug for those two guys. That year doug had 15 goals, 34 ass for 49 points. hecht had 16 g, 24 ass for 40 points. Reasoner had 6 g, 5 a for 11 p.

The important thing is that reasoner and hecht's combined salary was 6 mill less than doug. Last year, marty was our best +/- guy while doug was the blue's 2nd worst. Marty had something like 6 fewer es points than doug while costing 8 mill less. We can now see how important he is to our team, especially our PK which has gone into the toilet at the same time as his injury.

If the trade was a 20 year old weight for a 20 year old hecht and reasoner, than I would give lowe an F, but it wasn't.

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12-19-2003, 10:13 AM
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I was just thinking how cool it would be if I had a toonie right now, I would walk over to the Seven-Eleven and get a slush and a Corn Dog. Just a toonie, not 8 million dollars in toonies, just one toonie.

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12-19-2003, 10:57 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich
ok, lets go through this one last time

doug weight for hecht + reasoner.

it was ONE year of doug weight. STOP, digest that. It was ONE year of doug weight for hecht and reasoner.



In that year, doug outscored hecht by 6 points, had a worse +/-, and cost an extra 8 million dollars. 6 frickin points for 8 million dollars. That year, the Blues lost over 20 million dollars. After that year, dougie would have been ufa and he was gone.
I agree, that's why I rated the Trade a C rating. It certainly wasn't value for value and we know that Dougie wasn't going to re-sign here. The reason why I gave Lowe a failing grade for that trade, is that Hecht and Reasoner didn't help the Oilers that much. It took Reasoner a very long time to develop into the 3rd line centre of today and Hecht never panned out beyond the 40 point range. We did do extremely well in trading Hecht away for two 2nd round picks and then drafted excellently for Deslauriers and Stoll so that in the end, it seemed to work out to an acceptable level.

what if however, those two picks never panned out. And what if someone picked up Reasoner last year in the waiver draft. Then we would have been left with pretty much nothing from the Weight trade.

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12-19-2003, 11:13 AM
  #18
Mr Sakich
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Originally Posted by neogeo69
I agree, that's why I rated the Trade a C rating. It certainly wasn't value for value and we know that Dougie wasn't going to re-sign here. The reason why I gave Lowe a failing grade for that trade, is that Hecht and Reasoner didn't help the Oilers that much. It took Reasoner a very long time to develop into the 3rd line centre of today and Hecht never panned out beyond the 40 point range. We did do extremely well in trading Hecht away for two 2nd round picks and then drafted excellently for Deslauriers and Stoll so that in the end, it seemed to work out to an acceptable level.

what if however, those two picks never panned out. And what if someone picked up Reasoner last year in the waiver draft. Then we would have been left with pretty much nothing from the Weight trade.
these are very good points. It has worked out very well but I certainly see your points. The funny thing about most lowe trades is that he is a beleiver in buy low and sell high. With an unlimited budget, you can take on big money proven players but lowe obviously can't do that. His foresight in getting york, reasoner, salo, devo, staios is pretty decent. None of those guys had much market value and Lowe was criticized for trading for them. Right now, that is 2/3 of our core.

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12-19-2003, 11:34 AM
  #19
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Originally Posted by Mr Sakich
doug weight is the perfect example of what is wrong with the nhl. 8 mill for one player who isn't one of the four best players on your team is absolutely ridiculous. If I had to pick guys off the STL roster, I would have pronger, maciinis, demitra, and tkachuk before dougie any day yet 12$ of every ticket goes to the injury prone 2nd assist specialist.

The thing that really irritates me is that people say the trade was weight for hecht + reasoner when it was one year of doug for those two guys. That year doug had 15 goals, 34 ass for 49 points. hecht had 16 g, 24 ass for 40 points. Reasoner had 6 g, 5 a for 11 p.

The important thing is that reasoner and hecht's combined salary was 6 mill less than doug. Last year, marty was our best +/- guy while doug was the blue's 2nd worst. Marty had something like 6 fewer es points than doug while costing 8 mill less. We can now see how important he is to our team, especially our PK which has gone into the toilet at the same time as his injury.

If the trade was a 20 year old weight for a 20 year old hecht and reasoner, than I would give lowe an F, but it wasn't.
Just to pick a nit - I don't think the PK was all that great before Reasoner's injury, although it likely wasn't any *worse*! <sigh>

Still, looking forward to his return. Looks like some setbacks with fluid building up on his knee again. Damn!

Bart

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12-19-2003, 11:59 AM
  #20
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I have always liked Lowe so I probably have a bit of a rose coloured view of things (I figure I should admit to it early).

As far as his dealings I've always found his moves to be a little uneventful when they are stood up on an individual basis.

There have been no real great thrills for me when he has announced a deal but at the same time I have never really thrown my hands up in the air in disgust either.

If I was to name a highlight deal and low light move then I would say that for;

Highlight - I really liked Lowe bringing in Torres. I was sorry to see Niiniimaa go but as mentioned about the Weight trade, he was not long for here either. I had higher expectations for Isbister (although there is still time) but over the last few years I spent time monitoring some Islander boards and everyone seemed to be completely sold on Torres. No one I read could fathom the idea of him being dealt. Based on that I thought Lowe did very well.

Lowlight - It's not the trade for that confuses me but the long term signing of Cross. I can't say I really understand the move. To me he is an overpaid version of Ferguson and although there is a place on every team for those types of defencemen, it seems strange to me that they would commit to another one when they already had a cheaper one in the system. As far as I am concerned he is simply take up a spot that one of the prospects could be filling.

As for the Weight trade - Under the light that it has been rationed in I don't think he did too bad. I also don't mind admitting that I thought at the time and still think that based on what he did in St Louis, Hecht is not abad pick up when faced with that type of trade. It's just too bad that he didn't want to be here.

More to my point, by themselves the trades are kinda here nor there but when I look at how the culmination of all of his moves have tallied, I think he has done very well.

He has assembled (or is close to assembling) a team that has good talent, is in an age group where they should be able to grow and gel as a unit and I think is in real good shape for 1 or 2 years down the road. And that is the big picture, no matter how restless us natives may get when watching the team today.

I also think that it's not a bad move to have no real top end stars (as nice as it would be to watch) because in the end a team can always beat out a star.

I would give him a B

Some mistakes but I think overall he has a good vision for the team and is slowly developing that vision. And that includes the decisions to let certain players walk and the trading of some guys simply for picks.

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12-19-2003, 12:03 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by mowzie
I was just thinking how cool it would be if I had a toonie right now, I would walk over to the Seven-Eleven and get a slush and a Corn Dog. Just a toonie, not 8 million dollars in toonies, just one toonie.
You wouldn't happen to be a student, would you?

If so I feel your pain.

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12-19-2003, 01:06 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barto
Why? Can you explain that comment? Which ones don't you agree with?

Bart
Yep:

Quote:
July - signed Scott Ferguson as a FA.

Rating B: For the amount of money that the Oil signed him for, Ferguson has proven to be a solid 6th/7th defenseman providing toughness, and a never-complain attitude. Well-suited to that role.
Ferguson is not a sold 6th/7th defenseman in my mind. He takes stupid penalties, is slow, and doesn't know the difference between the net and the corner.

I can't wait until the day he is gone.

Quote:
...because if Comrie wasn't signed by July 2001, he would have become a UFA
I'm pretty sure Lowe had until 11:59 PM of December 31, 2000 to sign MC or else he would be available in the 2001 draft.

Quote:
July - Oilers trade Doug Weight and Michel Reisen for Marty Reasoner, Jan Horacek and Jochen Hecht.

Rating C: Horrible trade ... unless you consider the fact that Weight was going to be a pending UFA and there was no way in hell that Oil would be able to sign him. Still not a great trade since Reasoner did not pan out to be a top two centre, neither did Hecht. The only saving grace is that Reasoner is developing into a strong two way 3rd line centre with still a possibility for more while Hecht netted two great draft picks. Lowe lost this trade.
Horrible? Hecht finished just nine points behind Weight in 2002. Sure Jochen played 82 games to Doug's 61, but was the nine-point spread really worth the difference of the two contracts?

Reasoner did an excellent job taking over the third line centre role after Marchant was put in the middle on the top line last season. Without Todd now, the Oilers still have a dependable checking centre in Reasoner that does his job and can also play on the PP and PK.

Quote:
2002
March - Oilers trade Sean Brown to Boston for prospect Bobby Allen.

Rating D: I never understood this trade. Brown never panned out as a top 4 defenseman, always on the bubble as the sixth defenseman but I really liked how he always stepped up to protect smaller teammates. Ok, so we traded him. For Allen? A 23 year old prospect? Wierd. Why not a draft pick or something a little bit more useful?
D?

Quote:
October - Oilers trade Mike Grier to Washington for a 2nd round and 3rd round 2003 draft picks.

Rating C: Grier was simply making too much money for an every other year injured 3rd line RW. His place was opened up for Pisani as a cheaper, younger replacement. Getting two draft picks for a solid veteran banger... good return.
I don't understand the rating on this one. Lowe did good on this trade considering that Grier stopped hitting and was invisible in his final season with the Oilers.


Last edited by Vomiting Kermit*: 12-19-2003 at 01:10 PM.
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12-19-2003, 04:38 PM
  #23
Bohologo
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Originally Posted by York16
I'm pretty sure Lowe had until 11:59 PM of December 31, 2000 to sign MC or else he would be available in the 2001 draft.
No, he would have been an Unrestricted Free Agent, not a draft re-entry. That's why he got such a lucrative rookie contract. Comrie was exercising his right to UFA status under the Van Ryn loophole, by jumping from his college team to a Jr. team. It's fairly well documented.

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12-19-2003, 05:01 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohologo
No, he would have been an Unrestricted Free Agent, not a draft re-entry. That's why he got such a lucrative rookie contract. Comrie was exercising his right to UFA status under the Van Ryn loophole, by jumping from his college team to a Jr. team. It's fairly well documented.
Comrie had to be signed by December 31 of that year or he would have had to remain with the Kootenay Ice for the remainder of the season.

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12-19-2003, 08:21 PM
  #25
Mr Sakich
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Originally Posted by Hemsky83
Comrie had to be signed by December 31 of that year or he would have had to remain with the Kootenay Ice for the remainder of the season.
and then he would have been ufa at the end of the season.

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