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Old
04-16-2007, 01:23 PM
  #26
Langway
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perezhogin_19 View Post
Here's an offer:

To WAS: Kyle Chipchura and ???

To MTL: Steve Eminger and ???
The Caps have enough young bottom six forwards.

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04-16-2007, 01:59 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ididitlangway View Post
The Caps have enough young bottom six forwards.
Name me a few just to see you realize that Chipchura is better than all of them.

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04-16-2007, 02:02 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perezhogin_19 View Post
Name me a few just to see you realize that Chipchura is better than all of them.

Sutherby, Gordon, Brashear, Pettinger, Laich, Clymer, Bradley.


I guess the point is....we need top 6 players, not bottom 6. If he's not good enough to be a top-6'er, then he's not a need for the Caps, no matter if he's an upgrade over any of our bottom-6 or not.

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04-16-2007, 02:03 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by perezhogin_19 View Post
Name me a few just to see you realize that Chipchura is better than all of them.
Boyd Gordon, Matt Pettinger, Brian Sutherby, Donald Brashear, Matt Bradley, Brooks Laich, Dave Steckel. Chipchura could very well be better than some of them but I just doubt they'd be that interested in dealing Eminger for that type of player at this point.

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04-16-2007, 02:34 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perezhogin_19 View Post
Here's an offer:

To WAS: Kyle Chipchura and ???

To MTL: Steve Eminger and ???
I actually think that is very fair value. however like others have said young checking line forwards are not what this team needs. And because of that I don't see that as a deal the Caps would be interested in.

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04-16-2007, 02:38 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by shanwon View Post
Sutherby, Gordon, Brashear, Pettinger, Laich, Clymer, Bradley.


I guess the point is....we need top 6 players, not bottom 6. If he's not good enough to be a top-6'er, then he's not a need for the Caps, no matter if he's an upgrade over any of our bottom-6 or not.
I wouldn't mind adding a vet bottom 6 guy who can score, especially if the Caps continue to play Clark in a top 6 role.

But I agree that I don't see Chipchura as an upgrade over Gordon, Pettinger or Laich at all. And even though he may be a slight upgrade over guys like Sutherby and Clymer, those guys are leaders of this team and I can't see them being replaced for another young player like Chupchura.

I would take all 5 of those guys over Chipchura. And obviously Chipchura couldn't replace Brash and what he brings to the table.

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04-16-2007, 02:50 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
I wouldn't mind adding a vet bottom 6 guy who can score, especially if the Caps continue to play Clark in a top 6 role.
Who wouldn't?


I honestly don't know enough about Chipchura's game to speak much beyond what he's been described as, but if Eminger is moved at all, I think he's moved in a deal for a Vet top 6 RW/C or D.

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04-16-2007, 03:51 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
Why anyone would want to move him is crazy to me. The kid struggled in his first full year in the NHL, so do about 90% of rookies/first year players.
If Green had merely struggled I would be less willing to move him, but he went beyond that. He was awful, and he actually got worse as the season went on. He clearly isn't in the same class as Mo, Sgt. or MJ at this point, but he's still a valuable commodity on the trade market.

I'd much rather move Emminger, but Emmy probably doesn't have nearly as much value right now.

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04-16-2007, 04:05 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Devil Dancer View Post
If Green had merely struggled I would be less willing to move him, but he went beyond that. He was awful, and he actually got worse as the season went on. He clearly isn't in the same class as Mo, Sgt. or MJ at this point, but he's still a valuable commodity on the trade market.

I'd much rather move Emminger, but Emmy probably doesn't have nearly as much value right now.
He didn't play awful, he played like a 21 year old kid playing his first season in the NHL. Your right about him not being in the same class as Mo and MJ. However Mo and MJ were not the players they are now until this year. Mo is 3 years older than Green and was in his 2nd full NHL season. MJ is 2 years older and in his 2nd full NHL season.

I promise you when Green is 23/24 he will be just as good if not better than either Mo or MJ.

Lets wait and see how Green does next season before anyone starts to even think about pressing the panic button. Like I said, most NHL players struggle in their first full season in the NHL.

I can't believe we are even talking about moving Green.

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04-16-2007, 04:10 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devil Dancer View Post
If Green had merely struggled I would be less willing to move him, but he went beyond that. He was awful, and he actually got worse as the season went on. He clearly isn't in the same class as Mo, Sgt. or MJ at this point, but he's still a valuable commodity on the trade market.

I'd much rather move Emminger, but Emmy probably doesn't have nearly as much value right now.
Talk about over reaction.

I thought I was bad with the Jakub's.

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Old
04-16-2007, 04:10 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
I promise you when Green is 23/24 he will be just as good if not better than either Mo or MJ.
I hope that's how it works out, but I'm not too optimistic. Right now he's a turnover machine.

IRT Strung

I'm kind of shocked that I'm the only one who feels this way. Green was one of the worst defensemen on maybe the worst defensive team in the league. He is supposed to be an offensive defensemen, but he was useless on offense 5 on 5 and on the PP. I might give him the benefit of the doubt as a young player except that he got worse as the season went along.

Meanwhile, the Caps (hopefully) need to make room for a veteran d-man. Why not consider trading one of their worst players? I'd package Green and a 2nd for a second line RFA C in a heartbeat.


Last edited by Devil Dancer: 04-16-2007 at 04:17 PM.
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04-16-2007, 04:37 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Devil Dancer View Post
Meanwhile, the Caps (hopefully) need to make room for a veteran d-man. Why not consider trading one of their worst players? I'd package Green and a 2nd for a second line RFA C in a heartbeat.
I know this is going to come off as me being a dick, and I am really trying hard not to get into arguments anymore. But this is now becoming one of the most idiotic things I have ever read on these boards.

There is a reason why this kid took part in the NHL's young stars game and there is a reason why this kid is the only Caps prospect ever to be named to the AHL's all rookie team. That is because he is a hell of a young prospect.

The main reason why the Caps want to add a vet or two is to help guys like Green become the players they can be, which is an excellent top 4 defensman. So how is it smart to trade one of those NHL ready young players to aquire that vet.

I guess i missed something, when did the Caps go from a team rebuilding to a team trying to win now?

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04-16-2007, 04:43 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devil Dancer View Post
I hope that's how it works out, but I'm not too optimistic. Right now he's a turnover machine.

IRT Strung

I'm kind of shocked that I'm the only one who feels this way. Green was one of the worst defensemen on maybe the worst defensive team in the league. He is supposed to be an offensive defensemen, but he was useless on offense 5 on 5 and on the PP. I might give him the benefit of the doubt as a young player except that he got worse as the season went along.

Meanwhile, the Caps (hopefully) need to make room for a veteran d-man. Why not consider trading one of their worst players? I'd package Green and a 2nd for a second line RFA C in a heartbeat.
I think you're over reacting to one half of a first full season of NHL duty. Not sure how else to put it. If you want to tade Mike Green because he had a bad half of a season as a 21 year old...man...I dunno what to say to that.

You have your opinion so I guess thats that.

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04-16-2007, 04:58 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devil Dancer View Post
If Green had merely struggled I would be less willing to move him, but he went beyond that. He was awful, and he actually got worse as the season went on. He clearly isn't in the same class as Mo, Sgt. or MJ at this point, but he's still a valuable commodity on the trade market.

I'd much rather move Emminger, but Emmy probably doesn't have nearly as much value right now.
I don't agree at all. Eminger was terrible at times....Mike simply looked "Green".

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04-16-2007, 06:15 PM
  #40
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I am sure Eminger wasnt happy riding the pine so we could showcase HEWARD but at least he didn't complain. I like some thought for sure he was going to be traded near the deadline. With Green basically showing no signs of improvement this year - that has solidified a job for Emmy next year and I think he will thrive if paired with Erskine again.

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04-16-2007, 09:19 PM
  #41
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"Originally Posted by Japser17
Why anyone would want to move him is crazy to me. The kid struggled in his first full year in the NHL, so do about 90% of rookies/first year players."

Why is simple. It goes back to Drake's point about 5 24 years of age and under defensemen on the roster with more coming and the plain fact that you can't optimize the developement of these players by playing them together in the NHL AND you can't win with that incredible lack of experience either.

At somepoint you have to cut back to your choice of three, the mix them with quality veterans and then let them play with a chance to win.

Eminger is still young for a defenseman and there is plenty of time for him to grow. That would be true if he were part of a developed team and the one young defenseman on the crew. Here he is fighting for a roster spot with several young defensemen when there will be fewer roster spots for them next season.

Either Schultz and Green both go to the AHL next season and no other drafted Caps defense asset makes the team OR Eminger has to be moved. Unless you would prefer to see Morrisonn or Jurcina moved.

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04-16-2007, 09:23 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devil Dancer View Post
I hope that's how it works out, but I'm not too optimistic. Right now he's a turnover machine.

IRT Strung

I'm kind of shocked that I'm the only one who feels this way. Green was one of the worst defensemen on maybe the worst defensive team in the league. He is supposed to be an offensive defensemen, but he was useless on offense 5 on 5 and on the PP. I might give him the benefit of the doubt as a young player except that he got worse as the season went along.

Meanwhile, the Caps (hopefully) need to make room for a veteran d-man. Why not consider trading one of their worst players? I'd package Green and a 2nd for a second line RFA C in a heartbeat.
Man, I don't know. You compare Green to Eminger at Green's stage and it would be hard to say that Eminger is/was any better, yet you say keep one because he is still young and ditch the other because......

Are we forgetting that Eminger was to be an offensive defenseman and he has offered next to nothing.

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04-17-2007, 10:22 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
I know this is going to come off as me being a dick, and I am really trying hard not to get into arguments anymore. But this is now becoming one of the most idiotic things I have ever read on these boards.
It would have been easy to avoid being a dick here. All you had to do was substitute "I strongly disagree" or something like that for "this is now becoming one of the most idiotic things I have ever read on these boards." It really isn't that hard to stay civil.

IRT Green

I guess I'm alone on this, and that's OK. I hope I'm wrong! But so far all I have seen from Green are brief flashes of competence, horrible decisions with the puck, very little physical play, and incompetence in the offensive zone.

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04-17-2007, 10:54 AM
  #44
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If either Green nor Schultz are not traded this off season they are still on their entry deal so they could pay their dues down in Hershey this next season. Eminger is likely traded or he's the 7th D.

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04-17-2007, 11:04 AM
  #45
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If there is one young Capitals defenseman I would like top see paired with whatever defensive specialist veteran defenseman the team acquires this summer, it's Green. He needs NHL-caliber mentoring. With that under his belt for one to two seasons, he's going to be a really good one.

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04-17-2007, 12:21 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
If there is one young Capitals defenseman I would like top see paired with whatever defensive specialist veteran defenseman the team acquires this summer, it's Green. He needs NHL-caliber mentoring. With that under his belt for one to two seasons, he's going to be a really good one.

I agree...same could be said for Eminger too which makes me hesitant to give up any of these guys (packaged) unless it's for a guy coming back who is a star in his prime.

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04-17-2007, 12:44 PM
  #47
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I agree...same could be said for Eminger too which makes me hesitant to give up any of these guys (packaged) unless it's for a guy coming back who is a star in his prime.
I'm extremely hesitant to give up Eminger too, but it's a number's crunch. There's no way around it unless you stash Green and Schultz both in Hershey.

Pothier is realy f-ing up the rotation.

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Pothier is making too much money to carry as our 7.

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04-17-2007, 01:55 PM
  #48
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I would not be entirely surprised to see Pothier traded. His played to the level of his salary, but he didn't succede in filling either of the Caps hole in skill set. They need a defenseman that on the PP and at even strenth can put up numbers and command respect and attention from the opposition. Pothier didn't do that. They need a defenseman that can command respect and have a level of control in the defensive zone. Pothier doesn't do that either.

He was basically a fairly mistake free Eminger. Morrisonn, but smaller. Schultz but way smaller and more experienced. He was steady and reliable and a good middle of the lineup defenseman, but he is not a playmaker at either end of the ice.

The Caps are down to needing experience and playmakers. I could see the Caps trading Pothier and using his salary to take another crack at finding a playmaker in his price range.

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04-17-2007, 02:03 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devil Dancer View Post
It would have been easy to avoid being a dick here. All you had to do was substitute "I strongly disagree" or something like that for "this is now becoming one of the most idiotic things I have ever read on these boards." It really isn't that hard to stay civil.

IRT Green

I guess I'm alone on this, and that's OK. I hope I'm wrong! But so far all I have seen from Green are brief flashes of competence, horrible decisions with the puck, very little physical play, and incompetence in the offensive zone.
I agree in part. As others have said, yes, Green is green, and so like them I am willing to wait a couple of years. However, like you, Green's first year out of the gate in the NHL was not a memorable one. In particular, I expected to see more in his offensive game. When it came to the offense side, he was a one-trick pony with the occasional end-to-end rush, but only one of those translated into a goal (by anyone - him in that case), and once the rush ended he didn't seem to know what to do with it. From an offensive perspective, I rarely saw a quality pass that set up a nice play. There was nothing remarkable about his slap shot or its accuracy. On the defense side, well he has quite a ways to go.

Overall, two things stand out in my mind. One, the "glimpses" of Green becoming a solid defender and/or offensive defenseman were few and far in between. Yes, he is a rookie, but generally a rookie who is a top prospect is going to show glimpses from time to time of what he can be, mixed in with mostly rookie play. I saw little that qualified as a "glimpse" other than the occasional end-to-end rush that seemed to mesmerize many other people. Two, Hanlon had certainly seen enough. Throughout the season, Hanlon rarely put Green on the PP, despite the lack of even an average PP point man in the team. Moreover, as the season wore on, Hanlon hardly put Green out there at all, particularly in any situation where Hanlon was hoping to get a little D. Sure, he is a rookie, but so was Schultz and as time went on, Hanlon was ramping up his minutes, particularly in key times in the games.

Like most everyone else, I agree that Green needs a few more years of seasoning and playing with a reliable vet D would help him develop a lot. Like you, I agree that his first full season in the NHL was underwhelming.

One last note. Someone made a reference to Green playing in the Young Stars Games. I do not know why some people make such a big deal out of this, or out of some young player lighting it up in the Young Stars Game. Every year the NHL needs to fill the young stars roster with young players who have not played in the Young Stars game before. That's a lot of new young players needed every year to fill the rosters for that game. And from what I have seen of the rosters, sure there are some young stars in that game every year, like Malkin this year, but many of the players are simply players drafted in the first round with some potential to be NHL regulars. Fans of the Caps should be the least likely fans to make a big deal out of the Young Stars game, as they see Sutherby - a former Young Star MVP - who is turning into nothing more than a fourth-line player before our eyes.

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04-17-2007, 02:10 PM
  #50
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I don't see Pothier being dealt for two reasons:
* He has three years left at $2.5M / year and hasn't been able to solidify himself on one of the worst bluelines in the league. I'm not a Pothier hater but it's true. He needs to be used in a more limited role to excel and I wouldn't be suprised if that happens next year.
* When the front office seems to be trying to lure free agents to sign in DC, you don't want to set the bad precedent of dealing a free agent a year after their signing.

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