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Old
04-17-2007, 09:42 PM
  #1
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Bob Hartley

Watching some of Hartley's decisions in ATL vs NYR I always thought Hartley is an overrated coach. Hartley had worldclass material to work with in Colorado and should have won the cup more than once. Forsberg, Sakic, Bourque, Hejduk, Tanguay, Drury, Foote, Roy, Blake, Deadmarsh; hell the list goes on and on. I am disappointed in some playoff series during his reign, because we blew a lot of Game7 matches under Hartley.

Anyone else agree?

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04-17-2007, 09:54 PM
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I feel that we definitely should have one at least one more cup if not two the first tens years the Avs were here.

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04-17-2007, 10:02 PM
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He made a ridiculously stupid move in benching Lehtonen for Hedberg, and then switching back. You don't do that in a playoff series.

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04-17-2007, 10:15 PM
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I don't get the Rangers games...but benching Lehtonen was just plain stupid.

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04-17-2007, 11:00 PM
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I don't get the Rangers games...but benching Lehtonen was just plain stupid.
that wasn't stupid. However going back to Lehtonen was stupid.

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04-17-2007, 11:05 PM
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He made a ridiculously stupid move in benching Lehtonen for Hedberg, and then switching back. You don't do that in a playoff series.
Not that I'm defending Hartley's decision, but it seemed to work okay for Carolina last year.

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04-17-2007, 11:05 PM
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Avs fans,

Care to share any insight into Hartley?

Why do you think he was overrated? Any issues with players? What was the reaction to his firing?

In a nutshell, the Thrashers are a hot mess right now. I've not been thrilled with Hartley as coach, but especially during this series. We've had the same issues all season, they're just really glaring right now. IMO, he deserves a big chunk of the blame and I just want to see him gone.

As inconsistent as the team has been, and the lack of heart at times, it makes me wonder what the hell is going on in that locker room.

Thanks


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04-17-2007, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
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that wasn't stupid. However going back to Lehtonen was stupid.

True that

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04-17-2007, 11:11 PM
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overrated because he won a lot of games in colorodo but never really did much in the playoffs, and as already stated he had an allstar team.

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04-17-2007, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by DetroitThrasher View Post
Avs fans,

Care to share any insight into Hartley?

Why do you think he was overrated? Any issues with players? What was the reaction to his firing?

In a nutshell, the Thrashers are a hot mess right now. I've not been thrilled with Hartley as coach, but especially during this series. We've had the same issues all season, they're just really glaring right now. IMO, he deserves a big chunk of the blame and I just want to see him gone.

As inconsistent as the team has been, and the lack of heart at times, it makes me wonder what the hell is going on in that locker room.

Thanks



I watched hartley coach a lot during his years in Denver. He had worldclass material from start, but he isn't the big mans game imo. As I said, Colorado folded under pressure a few times, and Hartley had a habit of sending out the goons when he thought it was lost.

He also had a few hiccups with Forsberg and Roy. He demoted Forsberg once to the 3rd line and Peter was furious. I am pretty sure Forsberg was happy to see him gone.

It might have been some more lockeroom problems as well I don't know of.

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04-17-2007, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by tucker3434 View Post
overrated because he won a lot of games in colorodo but never really did much in the playoffs, and as already stated he had an allstar team.
Yeah, I know that much. I had heard awhile ago that Colorado players had issues with him and/or his coaching style. Is that true?

Update: Just saw the additional responses. Thanks for the info!

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04-17-2007, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitThrasher View Post
Avs fans,

Care to share any insight into Hartley?

Why do you think he was overrated? Any issues with players? What was the reaction to his firing?
I think a good coach brings out the best in his players. I don't know that Hartley ever really did that in Colorado. Honestly, it seemed like the presence of Ray Bourque brought out the best in the Avs in Bob's years here, but there's no way to know for certain.

I will say that Greg de Vries probably played the best hockey of his career under Hartely in 2001

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04-17-2007, 11:44 PM
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I loved Hartley in terms of how he was in public, but he clearly rubbed some of the players the wrong way. Somebody brought up Forsberg, Tanguay was another who was probably happy that Hartley was let go. He's a good coach, not a great coach and it's fair to say he benefitted from the talent of Colorado. People say the Avs should have won two more Cups. The only year I'd agree would have been in 2000. There is a reason this is the hardest championship to win, so in some ways I'm willing to lay off Hartley for only winning one Cup, but 2000 is the year that probably got away. That's why there was so much pressure on Hartley in 2001. There is no doubt in my mind he would have been fired after 2001 if the Avs had not won the Cup.

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04-17-2007, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Jori View Post
I loved Hartley in terms of how he was in public, but he clearly rubbed some of the players the wrong way. Somebody brought up Forsberg, Tanguay was another who was probably happy that Hartley was let go. He's a good coach, not a great coach and it's fair to say he benefitted from the talent of Colorado. People say the Avs should have won two more Cups. The only year I'd agree would have been in 2000. There is a reason this is the hardest championship to win, so in some ways I'm willing to lay off Hartley for only winning one Cup, but 2000 is the year that probably got away. That's why there was so much pressure on Hartley in 2001. There is no doubt in my mind he would have been fired after 2001 if the Avs had not won the Cup.

I forgot. Tanguay was in his doghouse for a long time.


I also think they should had won 2002. They were 3-2 up on red wings and totally blew it.

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04-17-2007, 11:55 PM
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I felt Detroit was the better team in 2002. The Avs had played two seven game series prior to facing Detroit. If anything they blew it being extended by the LA Kings.

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04-18-2007, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sune07 View Post
that wasn't stupid. However going back to Lehtonen was stupid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitThrasher View Post
True that
Really? Hmm, I profess my ignorance then. I just think it's an odd move when Lehtonen is your franchise goalie. Sure, he had a bad game, but it was his first playoff start, wasn't it? I don't see the Rangers though, so I'll defer to you guys... I just saw the box scores, thought about the situation and reached that conclusion, which is apparently wrong.

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04-18-2007, 12:05 AM
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Really? Hmm, I profess my ignorance then. I just think it's an odd move when Lehtonen is your franchise goalie. Sure, he had a bad game, but it was his first playoff start, wasn't it? I don't see the Rangers though, so I'll defer to you guys... I just saw the box scores, thought about the situation and reached that conclusion, which is apparently wrong.
hedberg kept trashers in game 2.

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04-18-2007, 12:10 AM
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I can understand wanting to have Lehtonen play, he is the goaltender of the future. The problem is when you invest so much in Cementhead, you have to win now. After a shaky start from the youngster, he went to Hedberg. The mistake Bob made was going back to Lehtonen. Hedberg wasn't the reason Atlanta lost game two.

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04-18-2007, 12:23 AM
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He was better than Crawford.

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04-18-2007, 12:35 AM
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He was better than Crawford.
how so? Crawford got them a cup in far less seasons than Hartley did.

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04-18-2007, 01:11 AM
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Originally Posted by sune07 View Post
hedberg kept trashers in game 2.
Yeah, I know. I was thinking about the long term but Jori makes sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jori View Post
I can understand wanting to have Lehtonen play, he is the goaltender of the future. The problem is when you invest so much in Cementhead, you have to win now. After a shaky start from the youngster, he went to Hedberg. The mistake Bob made was going back to Lehtonen. Hedberg wasn't the reason Atlanta lost game two.
Thanks, Jori. I forget Atlanta is in a win now situation, especially the price they paid this season to ensure a run...guess I was guilty of thinking too much prospectively and not enough business wise.

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04-18-2007, 01:15 AM
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ah they were about equal, both coached super talented teams, hartley always made it to the final 4, crawford coached two that lost in the 1st round. the 200 team was the best team that never won for the avs, before dallas they had like 4-5 losses in the 25+ games after acquiring bourque. they just couldnt beat the eagle and lost a tough one. in 02 that avs team was too beat up and injured to fend off a hungry wings team, there own fault for letting the kings back in the series for the 2nd straight yr.

hartley always had players question him because he never played pro, but he was a decent coach, the only thing ill ever question him on, is his inability to get his team to close out series quick, the avs played way too many 7 gamers from 99-02.

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04-18-2007, 01:49 AM
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I'll always remember the morning after Hartley was fired he was on 950 the fan and the first thing outta Mike Evans was..."So Bob, I guess you won't be naming your next son Alex or Martin"

He was notoriously hard on the young guys. Skoula and Tangs in particular.

I still think we should have had 1 or 2 more cups in his reign...at which point he'd probably still be our coach. In fact we should have won the Cup in 00, 01 (which we did win) and 02.

Measuring Hasek's stick in 02 I think was the tipping point...not Patty's statue of liberty

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04-18-2007, 02:36 AM
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i dont know why everyone frowns on the stick measurement attempt, it was a bold move but the team needed some risk as they were clearly losing steam, the SOL play hurt the team, but injuries finished them off, games 20 and 21 in less than 2 months was too much for the team.

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04-18-2007, 02:53 AM
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Hartly is a great coach IMO to get a team over the edge(i.e. the Avs in 2000-2001)

When you have a team of All-Stars you need a gruff workhorse coach, see Hartley and Sutter. They force that team to be 100% accountable and put presure on the roster and grill players for every mistake. This works great for a while and can result in winning a chapionship, but eventually angers the star players and can harm young talent. Hartley had all-star quality talent most of his time in Denver. Avs have 3 cups in a row if they don't run into Belfour IMO.

on the flip side...

A team of All-Stars will NOT perform for long under a "players coach", the Avs All-Star roster is just one example of this under Granato. The previous year Granato was part of a huge turn around as a result of his soft touch with the younger players on the roster(whom Hartley had broken so it seemed), but that also can turn a club soft over time which they saw the next year.




Neither are great coaches or have perfect coaching styles, but both have their merits.

Then you have the guys like Phill Jackson and Scotty Bowman who find a perfect mix of both and manage to turn any team into a contender. Both a teacher and a task master in one.



Not sure yet where Q stands, outside of the fact he cannot stick with a goalie long enough to actually see if they are any good. He has always been known as a defense first coach, which usually means more gruff, but he seems to be a nice guy in the media.



Outside having a GOD of a coach, the best setup is to have the hard noised head coach(see Herb Brooks) paired with a players assistant coach whom the players relate to IMO, that way both messages get across. You go 4-5 years under the head coach, fire him, let the assistant take over for a year or two to rebuild, then bring in a new task master to take the raw talent grown by the softy and mold them into a championship club.


Last edited by Drury_Sakic: 04-18-2007 at 02:59 AM.
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