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Old
12-19-2003, 06:59 AM
  #1
execwrite
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Sign Coach Q Now

I'm convinced. Joel Quenneville has proven he has improved his coaching skills by the way he's handled the team this year. He's been tougher on the players and has them producing. The whole team learned a lot last year.

Sign him now to a two-year extension. He's right up there with the best coaches the Blues have ever had and his record proves it. He shouldn't be a lame duck going into the playoffs this year. That won't help anyone.

This Blues management team can deliver a Cup. They signed Pleau earlier and now it's time to lock in Quenneville.

Next - get Pronger and Demitra into long-term deals before the new CBA, although that's going to be tough.

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12-19-2003, 07:00 AM
  #2
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I don't think you'll see Demitra in a Blues uniform beyond this year.

 
Old
12-19-2003, 07:13 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonwyck
I don't think you'll see Demitra in a Blues uniform beyond this year.
I sincerely hope you are wrong. That would be the biggest mistake this team could make. I would get rid of any other forward on the team before him. Lets hope he doesnt ever make it to be a UFA, before being locked up long term.

As far as Quenville, Im one of his biggest supporters. I agree this is his team. Lock him up.

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12-20-2003, 04:40 AM
  #4
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I hope I'm wrong too, but if looking at the current structure of the team I don't see how they will retain him.

In all likelihood they'll be trimming salary to meet the requirements of the new CBA.

Both Weight and Tkachuk have no trade-clauses.

Pronger is an obvious keeper.

That leaves Demitra as the only high dollar option left to cut and when you take into consideration that Cajanek is developing nicely and would be a suitable (and much cheaper) replacement for Demitra on one of the top two lines it just seems likely that he's going to be leaving.

 
Old
12-20-2003, 05:30 AM
  #5
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I don't see the point in locking Q up right now; the Blues have been a consistently strong regular season team under him and that's not even a question at all at this point. The questions about this team and Q lay in playoff performance and I, for one, don't want to see Q back until the Blues have a good all-around showing in the playoffs. It seems like a reasonable thing to ask for.

I also don't see Cajanek replacing what Demitra brings and that's no knock on Cajanek. He just isn't going to be an offensive star like Demitra IMO. Demitra has better skills and uses them very effectively (most of the time), especially along the boards. Cajanek doesn't have the same size as Demitra (that's the way it plays out anyway; maybe their sizes are the same, but Cajanek can't hold a candle to Demitra along the boards) and loses battles along the boards that Demitra wouldn't. Demitra also has consistently carried lines offensively and Cajanek has not shown that he can make scorers out of every grinder he plays with. Again, nothing against Cajanek whatsoever, but I will be disappointed if he's expected to carry a scoring line in place of Demitra. It's that kind of thinking that got a lot of us in trouble with our expectations of Sejna.

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12-20-2003, 06:07 AM
  #6
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I never said that Cajanek would replace what Demitra brings to the game. I said that Cajanek is a suitable replacement.. meaning that given the circumstances, we do have a center that could play on the top two lines if the Blues do have to part ways with Demitra.

That said, Cajanek is MUCH more of a physical player than Demitra and has no problem with battles along the boards.


Last edited by dragonwyck: 12-20-2003 at 06:58 AM.
 
Old
12-20-2003, 08:40 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonwyck
I never said that Cajanek would replace what Demitra brings to the game. I said that Cajanek is a suitable replacement.. meaning that given the circumstances, we do have a center that could play on the top two lines if the Blues do have to part ways with Demitra.

That said, Cajanek is MUCH more of a physical player than Demitra and has no problem with battles along the boards.
I understand that, but I don't agree that Cajanek is a suitable replacement for Demitra. He's a replacement yes, but capable or suitable? I don't think so. He hasn't shown the ability to take over a game or even really legitimize a scoring line by just being on it. I don't see Cajanek being an ideal top line center and as it stands now, he would have numerous questions if he were to be a 2nd line center. Not that Cajanek can't do the job; just that nobody knows if he can. It's a very risky proposition to just let a proven player walk and stick a strong two-way player in a more pure offensive role without knowing how he will handle a new role. Plus there is the obvious chemistry question that can't be answered.

As for battles along the boards, I'm talking about offensive zone and the resulting cycling of the puck. Demitra wins more of those offensive zone battles than Cajanek (defensively is clearly in Cajanek's favor though) and that's where Demitra is really at his best. Cajanek is more of a three zone player while Demitra is stronger in the offensive zone. And when he's playing with guys like Tkachuk and Mellanby, cycling and winning offensive zone battles is extremely important.

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12-20-2003, 08:48 AM
  #8
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Does any of us really know what the new CBA is going to bring? we arent the only high payroll team. Could they possibly allow teams to defer money on contracts or re-structure them all together to allow teams to keep key players?

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12-20-2003, 12:28 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laperriere22
I understand that, but I don't agree that Cajanek is a suitable replacement for Demitra. He's a replacement yes, but capable or suitable? I don't think so. He hasn't shown the ability to take over a game or even really legitimize a scoring line by just being on it. I don't see Cajanek being an ideal top line center and as it stands now, he would have numerous questions if he were to be a 2nd line center. Not that Cajanek can't do the job; just that nobody knows if he can. It's a very risky proposition to just let a proven player walk and stick a strong two-way player in a more pure offensive role without knowing how he will handle a new role. Plus there is the obvious chemistry question that can't be answered.

As for battles along the boards, I'm talking about offensive zone and the resulting cycling of the puck. Demitra wins more of those offensive zone battles than Cajanek (defensively is clearly in Cajanek's favor though) and that's where Demitra is really at his best. Cajanek is more of a three zone player while Demitra is stronger in the offensive zone. And when he's playing with guys like Tkachuk and Mellanby, cycling and winning offensive zone battles is extremely important.
:: shakes heads ::

Why are you nitpicking at the wording that I use?

The reality is that in all likelihood the Blues will have to cut salary after this season. Even if the CBA doesn't require it, there's a very good chance that the Blues will do so themselves since the Laurie's have been pretty clear from the get-go that they were willing to lose money for a few years before the new CBA is installed that would allow the team to be competitive with a lower payroll.

So, since Cajanek obviously isn't a 'suitable' or 'capable' replacement for Demitra then what is your plan? Going to get rid of Pronger? Going to trade Weight to Detroit (the only place he'd go)? Going to find someone to take Tkachuk... assuming he'd waive his no trade clause (Boston probably wouldn't be willing to take him)?

The reason why Cajanek IS a suitable replacement for Demitra is because he is cheap, he is already on the roster, and because center is the position in which the Blues have the depth to lose one of their high dollar players if it comes to the point where they HAVE to get rid of someone. Additionally, the Blues already have a 1st line center in Doug Weight so they wouldn't need Cajanek to fill that roll.

Very few teams have two centers as good as Weight and Demitra and Weight and Cajanek would still be a pretty damn good top 2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by c-carp
Does any of us really know what the new CBA is going to bring? we arent the only high payroll team. Could they possibly allow teams to defer money on contracts or re-structure them all together to allow teams to keep key players?
What I really think is going to happen is that the current contracts are going to be grandfathered in where only a portion of the salaries count towards a cap or luxury tax threshold. But, as I said above, I think the Blues are going to cut payroll regardless of what the CBA forces them to do.

 
Old
12-20-2003, 12:50 PM
  #10
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I agree that the new CBA will probably grandfather in existing contracts.

Don't Weight and Tkachuk's contracts go down in value starting next year? If the new agreement lowers salaries overall, Pronger might be re-signed for less. Then maybe there's a way to keep Demitra.

If the Blues are successful this year, I wouldn't be shocked if Laurie carried a relatively big budget again. It's not like he can't afford to - it's just whether he wants to.

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12-20-2003, 12:59 PM
  #11
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Neither Tkachuk or Weight's contracts drop significantly except for Tkachuk's (team) option year at the end of his contract which is for $5M.

Pronger's contract negotiations certainly will be interesting. It sure would be nice if the Blues could get him locked up long term for $6-$7M per season.

The budget has nothing to do with whether or not BL can afford it. If he can't start making a profit out of this team soon we're going to lose what might be the best owner in the NHL.

 
Old
12-20-2003, 08:26 PM
  #12
topshelf331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonwyck
I never said that Cajanek would replace what Demitra brings to the game. I said that Cajanek is a suitable replacement.. meaning that given the circumstances, we do have a center that could play on the top two lines if the Blues do have to part ways with Demitra.

That said, Cajanek is MUCH more of a physical player than Demitra and has no problem with battles along the boards.
I think LP realizes that pavol is the most consistent producer on the blues. And the only way i think he leaves (next season) is through a UFA age lowering, which goes hand in hand with a salary drop of the whole league.

Dont forget that Mac and Mel wont be around after next season also. So that lowers the payroll abit.

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12-20-2003, 10:22 PM
  #13
execwrite
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topshelf331
I think LP realizes that pavol is the most consistent producer on the blues. And the only way i think he leaves (next season) is through a UFA age lowering, which goes hand in hand with a salary drop of the whole league.

Dont forget that Mac and Mel wont be around after next season also. So that lowers the payroll abit.
Good point about MacInnis and Mellanby's salary off the books next year. If they need to in order to keep Demitra, they can also find cheaper defensemen to replace Finley and Khavanov.

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12-21-2003, 12:32 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by execwrite
Good point about MacInnis and Mellanby's salary off the books next year. If they need to in order to keep Demitra, they can also find cheaper defensemen to replace Finley and Khavanov.
The way Backman is playing he will replace one of them. Also if Matt Walker gets healthy he is an option.

Also I know it wouldnt cut much Salary, but If Steve McLaren does a good job as the enforcer while Low is out, you could move McLaren in next year because Low makes 700k which is pretty substantial for an enforcer.

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12-21-2003, 12:40 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by execwrite
Good point about MacInnis and Mellanby's salary off the books next year. If they need to in order to keep Demitra, they can also find cheaper defensemen to replace Finley and Khavanov.
I don't see why Blues can't resign Demitra when they could free up to 8 mil with Mac and Mel out.
Besides, I agree that letting Demitra walk away coyld be the biggist mistake ever. And i'm sure people here understand reasons...

I'm not sure but it seems to me that management decided to keep this team (high-paid players) untill their contracts expire and then decide if to lock them or not... During that time they hope their kids could grow up and replace some of them...

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12-21-2003, 05:01 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix
I don't see why Blues can't resign Demitra when they could free up to 8 mil with Mac and Mel out.
Besides, I agree that letting Demitra walk away coyld be the biggist mistake ever. And i'm sure people here understand reasons...

I'm not sure but it seems to me that management decided to keep this team (high-paid players) untill their contracts expire and then decide if to lock them or not... During that time they hope their kids could grow up and replace some of them...
That's a very good point Felix. The Blues bought themselves five years to develop their own players when they signed Weight and Tkachuk. Now the young guys have to gain experience and take over. I think there's a lot of talent in the pipeline.

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12-21-2003, 10:41 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonwyck
:: shakes heads ::

Why are you nitpicking at the wording that I use?
Nitpicking? I don't see it that way. What I'm saying is I understand your point and I don't agree with it. Cajanek can't replace Demitra's production based on what I've seen. He can be used as a replacement, but I don't consider Cajanek in any way an ideal replacement for Demitra.

Quote:
The reality is that in all likelihood the Blues will have to cut salary after this season. Even if the CBA doesn't require it, there's a very good chance that the Blues will do so themselves since the Laurie's have been pretty clear from the get-go that they were willing to lose money for a few years before the new CBA is installed that would allow the team to be competitive with a lower payroll.

So, since Cajanek obviously isn't a 'suitable' or 'capable' replacement for Demitra then what is your plan? Going to get rid of Pronger? Going to trade Weight to Detroit (the only place he'd go)? Going to find someone to take Tkachuk... assuming he'd waive his no trade clause (Boston probably wouldn't be willing to take him)?
Pure speculation on your part; you don't know any better than anyone else how the CBA is going to play out or how long it's going to take to get done. As such, I have no interest in playing a guessing game with the Blues roster with such a murky future ahead. I don't at all agree that the Blues have to dump someone looking at it from this far away and I don't see the point in arguing about it. The only thing I'm interested in debating is how suitable a replacement Cajanek would be for Demitra and personally, I think you somewhat overvalue Cajanek based on the comments I've read.

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12-21-2003, 03:20 PM
  #18
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I don't overvalue Cajanek at all. I just happen to live in reality where teams don't always have a Weight and a Demitra or a Sakic and a Forsberg as their top two centers.

 
Old
12-21-2003, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by dragonwyck
I don't overvalue Cajanek at all. I just happen to live in reality where teams don't always have a Weight and a Demitra or a Sakic and a Forsberg as their top two centers.
How exactly is it living in reality when you're talking exclusively about some future fantasy situation that you think will happen?

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12-21-2003, 08:26 PM
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It's comments like these that make me ask myself why I waste my time trying to have an intelligent conversation online. There is simply way too many people like you that when they have no response to something they decide to try to turn it around into an insult.

If you want to call my opinion that the Blues won't be able to afford Demitra a 'fantasy land' then so be it. I certainly could care less.

However, that is COMPLETELY irrlevent to the 'conversation' that is going on right now about Cajanek.

So, once again:

I don't overvalue Cajanek at all. I just happen to live in reality where teams can't and don't always have a Weight and a Demitra or a Sakic and a Forsberg as their top two centers.

 
Old
12-22-2003, 10:45 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laperriere22
How exactly is it living in reality when you're talking exclusively about some future fantasy situation that you think will happen?
Where's the insult?

Just my own 2 cents, whether Demitra is released/not resigned we don't know, but making that decision now without a CBA in place, and with no possible foresight into what the CBA may be, is way premature. Also, as far as Cajanek replacing Demitra, I think Demitra is one of the top 10 forwards in the league(at his best, not on a nightly basis). Cajanek couldn't hold his jock, just my opinion.

Now let's go get some oranges from mum and aunt sylvia and enjoy the day.

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12-22-2003, 10:52 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonwyck
I don't overvalue Cajanek at all. I just happen to live in reality where teams don't always have a Weight and a Demitra or a Sakic and a Forsberg as their top two centers.
The reality is that the elite teams DO have forwards like Sakic and Forsberg, Modano and Arnott, Datsyuk and Yzerman, not to mention the wingers that compliment these centers. If the Blues choose to be an elite team, they'll need to retain Demitra, like it or not. Cajanek certainly has the potential to be a good 2nd line center, but does he compare well to the other no. 2 centers in the league, perhaps not.

Basically, reality dictates that the Blues retain Demitra, unless you're content with regular season success and playoff failure.

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12-22-2003, 11:12 AM
  #23
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Someone should notify the New Jersey Devils that you must have 2 elite centers to win the Stanley Cup.

 
Old
12-22-2003, 11:54 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonwyck
Someone should notify the New Jersey Devils that you must have 2 elite centers to win the Stanley Cup.
Hmmmm... What does Jersey have that could possibly help them win the cup??? Jeez... This is a really hard one... Somebody let me know if you figure out the reason why no one scores of NJ... it's really puzzling.

I know it rhymes with.... Larpin Growtoor....
I think someone was saying something about a shutout record this year.... whatever that means.

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12-22-2003, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by blueblood1617
Hmmmm... What does Jersey have that could possibly help them win the cup??? Jeez... This is a really hard one... Somebody let me know if you figure out the reason why no one scores of NJ... it's really puzzling.

I know it rhymes with.... Larpin Growtoor....
I think someone was saying something about a shutout record this year.... whatever that means.
So you're saying it's impossible to win the Stanley Cup without either two elite centers or Martin Brodeur?

 
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