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another Poile playoff?

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04-19-2007, 10:54 AM
  #1
Mothra
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another Poile playoff?

I realize the Sharks are a good team but still.....Nashville were higher in the standings, a popular pre-season pick, and are now facing elimination down 3-1 in the first round. I applaud his aggressiveness in getting Forsberg but it looks like another playoff disappointment for a Poile run team.....something we know all to well

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04-19-2007, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mothra View Post
I realize the Sharks are a good team but still.....Nashville were higher in the standings, a popular pre-season pick, and are now facing elimination down 3-1 in the first round. I applaud his aggressiveness in getting Forsberg but it looks like another playoff disappointment for a Poile run team.....something we know all to well
It's the same refrain too. A veteran team with a great D, balanced scoring and a goalie with 6 games NHL playoff experience.

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04-19-2007, 11:05 AM
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Heh, I was wondering if Poile was going to be mentioned on the eve of Nashville getting booted.

San Jose is just pounding Nashville's seemingly smaller dmen with their big forwards. It looks like the next round in the western conference will be awesome with Detroit, Anaheim, Vancouver, San Jose.

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04-19-2007, 11:41 AM
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This doesn't reflect as much on Poile to me. Maybe he does need to add some bigger guys, but Buffalo isn't necessarily a big team either. Both Nashville and San Jose are winners in their own right. Some teams hold the right cards for beating others. And it's a mental thing too. When you're both good, it's about who rises to the occasion. Kind of like Tampa Bay vs the Devils. I called TB and San Jose to win both of their series, but neither are sure things as this point.

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04-19-2007, 12:53 PM
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Lose in the first round. Get a crappy draft pick. Lose in the first round. Get a crappy draft pick. Rinse. Repeat.

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04-19-2007, 12:58 PM
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I think its a shame this is a 1st rd match-up and not the conference finals. Because I think these are the two best teams in the west (sorry detroit and anaheim). This is really a perfect example of how the current playoff format and point system sucks IMO.

Both these teams finished with more points than Vancouver who got the #3 seed, and both these teams finished tied for most wins in the western conference (more than Detroit and Anaheim).

However because the division champ gets a top 2 seed and the current point system doesn't award teams enough for winning in regulation they get the 4th and 5th seeds and play in the opening round.

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04-19-2007, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by usiel View Post
Heh, I was wondering if Poile was going to be mentioned on the eve of Nashville getting booted.

San Jose is just pounding Nashville's seemingly smaller dmen with their big forwards. It looks like the next round in the western conference will be awesome with Detroit, Anaheim, Vancouver, San Jose.
It's strange, but Poile used to love those big D like Hatcher, Tinordi, Iafrate, Stevens, Gonchar, Witt, Langway etc. So why the switch to smaller guys? Different approach, same result. I feel bad for him.

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04-19-2007, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Gas House Gorilla View Post
It's strange, but Poile used to love those big D like Hatcher, Tinordi, Iafrate, Stevens, Gonchar, Witt, Langway etc. So why the switch to smaller guys? Different approach, same result. I feel bad for him.
well you would have to be a fool to think you can use guys like Hatcher, Tinordi, and Iafrate and have success in the NHL today. Maybe you can get away with having one, maybe 2 of them on your D core but not any more.

I think Nashville is an excellent team, but so is San Jose and only one team can win.

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04-19-2007, 01:11 PM
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But hey... that guy sure does know how to build a team from the net on out.

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04-19-2007, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
I think its a shame this is a 1st rd match-up and not the conference finals. Because I think these are the two best teams in the west (sorry detroit and anaheim). This is really a perfect example of how the current playoff format and point system sucks IMO.

Both these teams finished with more points than Vancouver who got the #3 seed, and both these teams finished tied for most wins in the western conference (more than Detroit and Anaheim).

However because the division champ gets a top 2 seed and the current point system doesn't award teams enough for winning in regulation they get the 4th and 5th seeds and play in the opening round.
nonsense......after seeing countless divisional playoff series before the conference standings was put in place I would say this is a much better way. I am going to assume that what you are suggesting is seed teams 1-8 on points regarless of division winners. Only way that works is if you just get rid of divisions altogether....which I wouldnt be against really, but it wont happen. You certainly cant have it that way while teams play an unbalanced schedule (and let me stop you there....no, you didnt say that, I am just making a point)....so all teams would have to play the same amount against each other.


EDIT: Forgot to add this.....the West has one team in the playoffs under 100 points, Calgary with 96....The 7th seeded Wild have 104 points. Point is....first round is going to be hard no matter who you play. The fact they had 2 more wins and 5 more points than 3rd seeded Vancouver (105 points) doesnt mean a thing


Last edited by Mothra: 04-19-2007 at 01:32 PM.
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04-19-2007, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gas House Gorilla View Post
It's strange, but Poile used to love those big D like Hatcher, Tinordi, Iafrate, Stevens, Gonchar, Witt, Langway etc. So why the switch to smaller guys? Different approach, same result. I feel bad for him.
Well, if he wants a bigger D, Poile could always call up Yonkman from the minors.

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04-19-2007, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
well you would have to be a fool to think you can use guys like Hatcher, Tinordi, and Iafrate and have success in the NHL today. Maybe you can get away with having one, maybe 2 of them on your D core but not any more.

I think Nashville is an excellent team, but so is San Jose and only one team can win.
call me a fool then because those 3 guys, on the same team, would rock...even today. Seriously.....Hatcher and Iafrate had serious wheels/skill and Tinordi would be a fine phyical player

I guess its possible you are talking about the cap hit it would cause....that makes sense

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04-19-2007, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Mothra View Post
nonsense......after seeing countless divisional playoff series before the conference standings was put in place I would say this is a much better way. I am going to assume that what you are suggesting is seed teams 1-8 on points regarless of division winners. Only way that works is if you just get rid of divisions altogether....which I wouldnt be against really, but it wont happen. You certainly cant have it that way while teams play an unbalanced schedule (and let me stop you there....no, you didnt say that, I am just making a point)....so all teams would have to play the same amount against each other.
I am all for going back to divisional playoffs, that is when hockey actually had true rivalries. Because teams in the same division played in the playoffs every year. I am not saying they should seed 1-8 at all, But I would love to go back to divisional playoffs like in the old days.

As for the point structure, it will always bother me that a win in regualation is just as valuable as a win in a shootout. But maybe thats just me.

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Originally Posted by Mothra View Post
call me a fool then because those 3 guys, on the same team, would rock...even today. Seriously.....Hatcher and Iafrate had serious wheels/skill and Tinordi would be a fine phyical player

I guess its possible you are talking about the cap hit it would cause....that makes sense
Well you said it not me .

I don't think a guy like Tinordi would be anything more than a 4th/5th guy in today's NHL with the style he played. I really don't think a guy like him would be very successful anymore.

I never liked Hatcher, so my problem with him is def more personal than anything else. And I have and will always say he was a horrible choice as captain.

As for Iafrate, i will admit I jumped the gun on that one. He did have a couple good season's in a Caps sweater. Although he was not the same player twords the end of his career as he was in the beginning.

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04-19-2007, 01:41 PM
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Iafrate is one of my all time favs for sure. Too bad the knee injuries caught up with him.

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04-19-2007, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
well you would have to be a fool to think you can use guys like Hatcher, Tinordi, and Iafrate and have success in the NHL today. Maybe you can get away with having one, maybe 2 of them on your D core but not any more.

I think Nashville is an excellent team, but so is San Jose and only one team can win.

Ummmm, you couldn't use Iafrate in today's game????? That guy could skate very well. He'd be a prototype for today's defenseman.

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04-19-2007, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Gas House Gorilla View Post
Ummmm, you couldn't use Iafrate in today's game????? That guy could skate very well. He'd be a prototype for today's defenseman.
I was thinking of the Iafrate twords the end of his career when I wrote that (the one with bad knees), i already said I jumped the gun.

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04-19-2007, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post

I am all for going back to divisional playoffs, that is when hockey actually had true rivalries. Because teams in the same division played in the playoffs every year. I am not saying they should seed 1-8 at all, But I would love to go back to divisional playoffs like in the old days.

As for the point structure, it will always bother me that a win in regualation is just as valuable as a win in a shootout. But maybe thats just me.
actually I would be all for that too.....when I said it was better this way I meant more in terms of "fairness" for lack of a better term. There were plenty of seasons back in the day where sub .500 teams made the playoffs while better teams missed them in the same conference. I say bring back the old division names and play your way out of the division in the playoffs too...those were battles

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Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
I don't think a guy like Tinordi would be anything more than a 4th/5th guy in today's NHL with the style he played. I really don't think a guy like him would be very successful anymore.

I never liked Hatcher, so my problem with him is def more personal than anything else. And I have and will always say he was a horrible choice as captain.

As for Iafrate, i will admit I jumped the gun on that one. He did have a couple good season's in a Caps sweater. Although he was not the same player twords the end of his career as he was in the beginning.
I agree with you on Tinordi....that he would be a 4th/5th guy....but one that brings toughness and leadership. In short...he would be able to play in the NHL. No question in my mind about that

I was never a big Hatcher fan but that doesnt take away from the fact his style of play, mixed with his great size and high end skill would do very well in todays game...and agreed, horrible choice for the C

Iafrate was a beast.....a healthy Iafrate would be a star right now

EDIT: so yea, I have no problems seeing all 3 on the same NHL team in this era....and among all the things that make me a fool, I really dont think this is one of them

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04-19-2007, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
I was thinking of the Iafrate twords the end of his career when I wrote that (the one with bad knees), i already said I jumped the gun.

What you typed was a loaded statement. I was simply referring to the fact that Poile always liked big defensemen, and it's strange that he built his Nashville team around smaller D. I never made any reference to the late career Iafrate or the late career Hatcher or whatever. It's impossible to put any of those players into a time machine and have them dress for the Preds, so any debate about having the 3 of them on any one team now is useless.

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04-19-2007, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Gas House Gorilla View Post
What you typed was a loaded statement. I was simply referring to the fact that Poile always liked big defensemen, and it's strange that he built his Nashville team around smaller D. I never made any reference to the late career Iafrate or the late career Hatcher or whatever. It's impossible to put any of those players into a time machine and have them dress for the Preds, so any debate about having the 3 of them on any one team now is useless.
Well the point I was trying to make is that it seems all the elite teams in the NHL, and yes I do consider Nashville one of the elite teams in the NHL, seem to be going to more mobile defensman. And obviously most mobile defensman tend to be smaller than the physical D (i know there are exceptions, but very rarely do you see a 6'4 figure skater or a 5'10 punisher).

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04-19-2007, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
Well the point I was trying to make is that it seems all the elite teams in the NHL, and yes I do consider Nashville one of the elite teams in the NHL, seem to be going to more mobile defensman. And obviously most mobile defensman tend to be smaller than the physical D (i know there are exceptions, but very rarely do you see a 6'4 figure skater or a 5'10 punisher).

The truly elite teams, as in the ones who will not only dominate in the regular season, but win a few playoff series, will be the ones who can be both big and mobile on the blueline, such as San Jose. It seems like Poile sacrificed size for mobility, and it's not working for him yet again. Too bad for him.

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04-19-2007, 02:50 PM
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It's not that Nashville is not elite. It's just that the Sharks may have the answer. Had it been Nashville vs most of the other teams in the playoffs (either conference), it might be a different story.

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04-19-2007, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Gas House Gorilla View Post
The truly elite teams, as in the ones who will not only dominate in the regular season, but win a few playoff series, will be the ones who can be both big and mobile on the blueline, such as San Jose. It seems like Poile sacrificed size for mobility, and it's not working for him yet again. Too bad for him.
Its not like the Preds have no size on their blueline. They have a couple defensman who are 6'2+, and Suter at 6'1 is no dwarf.

I don't think the Preds lack of size on the blueline is their problem. Its a lack of Arnott, Kariya, Erat, and Sullivan. Those are 4 guys they rely on. Sullivan is out of the lineup, while the other 3 have combined for 1 goal.

Anyway we will have to continue this convo later, I have to go pick my parents up from at the airport. They go to Tuscany for 15 days while I get to watch their dog. I wish I was retired.

But hey, maybe I will get a t-shirt

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04-19-2007, 04:22 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Gas House Gorilla View Post
It's strange, but Poile used to love those big D like Hatcher, Tinordi, Iafrate, Stevens, Gonchar, Witt, Langway etc. So why the switch to smaller guys? Different approach, same result. I feel bad for him.
Maybe they switched for the same reason we thought Pothier would be good. We thought small defenseman wont get pounded in the new NHL and they would thrive with "all the room". Pothier was out for an extended time with a severe concussion and had a crappy season; Nashville is about to crumble. It's no secret that people are bigger these days (mmm growth hormones) and I hope we move Pots up to forward so he can survive next season.

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04-19-2007, 10:14 PM
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It's the same refrain too. A veteran team with a great D, balanced scoring and a goalie with 6 games NHL playoff experience.


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04-24-2007, 07:50 AM
  #25
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Divisional playoff format has one SERIOUS pothole and its easy to forget after a number years away from it. That is playing the same team in the playoffs every season. Same 4 teams make the playoffs out of the division and the matchups are almost always the same and after a while...who cares.

Particularly when the Caps are losing to the Islanders every season. Now, there are more teams in the league and so the divisions are larger, but I think it would end up the same. Unless you can get to the conference finals a team plays the same couple of teams in the playoffs every season for a decade and its hard to keep the excitement.

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