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Ortmeyer and Prucha

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Old
06-04-2007, 03:12 AM
  #1
danroy33
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Ortmeyer and Prucha

It seems as if they may be the odd men out. Hossa may be re-signed since he played on the top line which makes Prucha's spot on the bottom two lines. Also, Prucha has been rumored as part of many trade deals over the past year and has yet to sign. When Orr and Hollweg were given contracts, Ortmeyer was not. Anyone heard anything? I would hope to keep both given the fact that they are heart and soul guys, even though there are rookies waiting in the wings.

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06-04-2007, 03:40 AM
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there is already an ortmeyer thread.
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=378678

prucha is scattered about many others. such as the rumored trade threads.
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=378942

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06-04-2007, 03:53 AM
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my apologies, I have just heard some rumblings on XM Home Ice about Ortmeyer and Prucha so I thought I would inquire. For example, one caller said an Arizona report had Prucha being packaged with Montoya for the No. 3 pick in this year's draft and a defenseman. Also, a St. Louis paper (from another caller) claimed that the Blues had interest in Ortmeyer (I guess a Davidson connection).

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06-04-2007, 09:35 AM
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Orty is probably gone, we know this.

Prucha has been the subject to many rumors, but for the sake of long term building it would be a disaster if he's traded for anyone who's older unless it's like a Lecavalier (which isn't happening).

I think a big question will be if
1. Hossa gets put back on line #1 and
2. Who or if the Rangers sign a 2nd line center.

If Hossa gets knocked back to #4 again with Straka at #1 then I'm sure you'll be seeing Prucha on #3 with Callahan and Cullen. If Hossa gets put back at #1, then you could either see Prucha on #4 or traded. Just my take on it.

I can't see Avery playing #2 center again. I think we'll see either

Hossa - Nylander - Jagr
Straka - UFA/Farm - Shanny
Avery - Cullen - Callahan
Prucha? - Etc.

or

Straka - Nylander - Jagr
Avery - UFA/Farm - Shanny
Prucha - Cullen - Callahan
Hossa - Etc.

Now if Shanny doesn't come back, then everything changes again. So who knows at this point. I don't see the Rangers trying to move Prucha before the season especially if they still aren't sure about Shanny. Prucha can play right wing and had done so in his rookie year. Putting a righty on the right wing is the most natural even though for a player like Prucha you'd prefer to have him on left.

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06-04-2007, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danroy33 View Post
It seems as if they may be the odd men out. Hossa may be re-signed since he played on the top line which makes Prucha's spot on the bottom two lines. Also, Prucha has been rumored as part of many trade deals over the past year and has yet to sign. When Orr and Hollweg were given contracts, Ortmeyer was not. Anyone heard anything? I would hope to keep both given the fact that they are heart and soul guys, even though there are rookies waiting in the wings.
Hollweg and Orr were RFAs. Ortmeyer is an UFA. I think he tests the market (like he should) and for the right price, I can see the Rangers bringing him back.

Prucha is a guy that has value on the trade market. He is also a guy whom the Rangers don't seem infatuated with maybe even go so far as to say that they feel he might be easily replaceable by what's in the system.

The biggest question is whether or not these two guys are really replaceable. IMO, I think Ortmeyer is not sure about Prucha. That said, if they are not going to give Prucha a legit chance to play on one of the top two lines, I might very prefer to trade him in the right situation.

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06-04-2007, 09:54 AM
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The problem I have with trading Prucha, besides the fact that he's my favorite player at the moment, is who replaces him?

Sure next year and maybe the following year you have
Shanny(maybe), Jagr, Nylander, and Straka. However, once Jagr's contract's done, that's it. Now you're down 4 players on your top two lines. Besides Prucha, who do we have that's proven he can score 20 goals?

We can hope that Avery's end to last year wasn't a fluke and that he continues what he did (he finished with 18 goals, but scored at a rate from when he came to NYR to hit a year average of 23). So we have two guys who can score over 20 at this point.

Callahan hasn't proven that he can do it over a full season and he only had 4 goals in 14 games (which is also an average of 23). So we can't say he's ready to be our #1 young guy yet.

Plus we're going to need more than one player who can score 20 goals. Especially since at this point we have no one who's going to hit 40 or 50 goals.

Dawes has shown me nothing at this point. Of course he hasn't had too much of a chance, but he's had some chances.

So then who's going to score 20+ goals once Jagr & Co are gone?

IMO we're not all that strong at forward in our system. Very strong on D, but not as much on forward. Sure we have some good players, but no one fantastic. I'd rather wait on trading someone like Prucha who's proven he can play in the NHL.

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06-04-2007, 09:54 AM
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I still fear that Ortmeyer will end up either a Flyer or a Devil. For the Devs he would fit in perfectly in that system. He's be a cheap date for them also.

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06-04-2007, 10:44 AM
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Ortmeyer definitely has a place in this league. Even if it's just as a depth guy, you could do a hell of alot worse than a defense concious, dogged penalty killer who gives you everything he's got every shift and blocks shots like no tomorrow. I think the Rangers make a big mistake if they let him walk. I don't think it's a coincidence that the team had a signifigant turn around after he came back from his injury. Some guys bring intangibles, and they are just that. You can't touch them, you don't see them in stats. Jed is one of those guys. His type of effort and hustle keeps the rest of the team honest. You can't dog it with guys like this around. Either they're going to outwork you and force their way into the lineup, or they're going to force the other guys to keep working hard enough that it doesn't happen. Either way, guys like Ortmeyer are the ones who show coaches who wants it most. You can't have too many guys like this around. Maybe he doesn't play every day, but he's a great guy to have around for depth in case of injuries and an even better guy to have around to instill good work habits in the new kids coming up. I really don't want to see him go. It's one thing if he gets a great offer and we decide that we have someone who can do his job for a more reasonable price. But to not even offer the kid a contract is a flat out mistake

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06-04-2007, 11:02 AM
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The return for Prucha better be nice and worth it. Get Prucha a real play-making, or rather not even play-making but a solid top 2 line center and the kid will net you 30 goals again. Whether its Drury, Horton, Richards or Lecavalier- Playing w/ Prucha would inflate his numbers again. Not Rucchin and Cullen for christ sakes. Get him a center, preferably sign Drury and keep Prucha.


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06-04-2007, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Lion Hound View Post
I still fear that Ortmeyer will end up either a Flyer or a Devil. For the Devs he would fit in perfectly in that system. He's be a cheap date for them also.
JD is creaming his pants over the idea of Ortmeyer being a UFA.

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06-04-2007, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by SML View Post
Ortmeyer definitely has a place in this league. Even if it's just as a depth guy, you could do a hell of alot worse than a defense concious, dogged penalty killer who gives you everything he's got every shift and blocks shots like no tomorrow. I think the Rangers make a big mistake if they let him walk. I don't think it's a coincidence that the team had a signifigant turn around after he came back from his injury. Some guys bring intangibles, and they are just that. You can't touch them, you don't see them in stats. Jed is one of those guys. His type of effort and hustle keeps the rest of the team honest. You can't dog it with guys like this around. Either they're going to outwork you and force their way into the lineup, or they're going to force the other guys to keep working hard enough that it doesn't happen. Either way, guys like Ortmeyer are the ones who show coaches who wants it most. You can't have too many guys like this around. Maybe he doesn't play every day, but he's a great guy to have around for depth in case of injuries and an even better guy to have around to instill good work habits in the new kids coming up. I really don't want to see him go. It's one thing if he gets a great offer and we decide that we have someone who can do his job for a more reasonable price. But to not even offer the kid a contract is a flat out mistake
The problem is we do have alot of players like Ortmeyer who can actually score too. Jed Ortmeyer was awesome, just a class act for us. But we got similar players waiting in hartford who actually have more of a scoring touch too.

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06-04-2007, 11:09 AM
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JD is creaming his pants over the idea of Ortmeyer being a UFA.
You could probably say the same about Maloney in Pheonix right now. He will definately get some interest from other teams.

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06-04-2007, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 51tyutin51 View Post
The problem is we do have alot of players like Ortmeyer who can actually score too. Jed Ortmeyer was awesome, just a class act for us. But we got similar players waiting in hartford who actually have more of a scoring touch too.
i would not mind seeing Hollweg dealt so Orts can be back next year, we got byers who can replace Hollweg.


Byers/Korpikoski Betts Orts not a bad 4th line.

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06-04-2007, 11:13 AM
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You could probably say the same about Maloney in Pheonix right now. He will definately get some interest from other teams.
do we have another hard worker like Orts who blocks shots and does the little things in Hartford?? Greg Moore, Byers, Korpikoski, Helminen??

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06-04-2007, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by 51tyutin51 View Post
The problem is we do have alot of players like Ortmeyer who can actually score too. Jed Ortmeyer was awesome, just a class act for us. But we got similar players waiting in hartford who actually have more of a scoring touch too.
No, people here THINK we have alot of guys in Hartford who can do what Orts does and score, too. The problem I have is that until that player comes to NY and proves he can do it on a night in night out basis, then it doesn't mean jack to me. Ortmeyer is a known commodity. Everyone else is unknown until they prove it. I have no problem with one of these young guys coming up and knocking Ortmeyer out of the lineup. I just want them to actually have to do it before we give up on him. Even if we sign him, and one of these kids does knock him out, you don't think he'd be easy enough to trade for a late round pick?

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06-04-2007, 11:22 AM
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do we have another hard worker like Orts who blocks shots and does the little things in Hartford?? Greg Moore, Byers, Korpikoski, Helminen??
Greg Moore is my Ortmeyer replacement. Let me tell you he wont dissapoint you.

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06-04-2007, 11:25 AM
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No, people here THINK we have alot of guys in Hartford who can do what Orts does and score, too. The problem I have is that until that player comes to NY and proves he can do it on a night in night out basis, then it doesn't mean jack to me. Ortmeyer is a known commodity. Everyone else is unknown until they prove it. I have no problem with one of these young guys coming up and knocking Ortmeyer out of the lineup. I just want them to actually have to do it before we give up on him. Even if we sign him, and one of these kids does knock him out, you don't think he'd be easy enough to trade for a late round pick?
If we look at it that way Ortmeyer shouldn't have made the sqaud out of training camp last season. There where about 3-4 players(Moore,Dubinsky,Korpikoski) who outplayed him. But I'm sure out of respect to a veteran who shows all out hussle his spot was a lock.

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06-04-2007, 11:26 AM
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Greg Moore is my Ortmeyer replacement. Let me tell you he wont dissapoint you.
He's already disappointed me with his lack of production in Hartford.

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06-04-2007, 11:29 AM
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He's already disappointed me with his lack of production in Hartford.
That's because he took this season, along the help of the coaches who are praising him because of it- for refiing his defensive game.

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06-04-2007, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 51tyutin51 View Post
If we look at it that way Ortmeyer shouldn't have made the sqaud out of training camp last season. There where about 3-4 players(Moore,Dubinsky,Korpikoski) who outplayed him. But I'm sure out of respect to a veteran who shows all out hussle his spot was a lock.
It's easy to outplay a player who isn't in training camp. Orts missed half the year with the pulmonary embolism. Moore, Dubi, and Korpi were all outplayed by Dawes.

Quote:
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That's because he took this season, along the help of the coaches who are praising him because of it- for refiing his defensive game.
So his lack of production was due to his focus on defense. Then how is he going to play a defensive role in the NHL and produce more than Ortmeyer?

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06-04-2007, 11:34 AM
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How does looking at it that way mean he shouldn't have made the team? He was unable to play. How exactly does that mean he was beaten out if he couldn't participate? Didn't he start the season with the embolism, or at least it was found early in the preseason so it clearly was affecting his performance. I fail to see how that means he shouldn't have made the team, especially since he actually wasn't playing and none of the 3 guys you mention actually started the season with the team.

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06-04-2007, 11:52 AM
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How does looking at it that way mean he shouldn't have made the team? He was unable to play. How exactly does that mean he was beaten out if he couldn't participate? Didn't he start the season with the embolism, or at least it was found early in the preseason so it clearly was affecting his performance. I fail to see how that means he shouldn't have made the team, especially since he actually wasn't playing and none of the 3 guys you mention actually started the season with the team.
Point being even if he was there his spot was a lock, deserving or not all because of him being a veteran for the Rangers.

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06-04-2007, 11:56 AM
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It's easy to outplay a player who isn't in training camp. Orts missed half the year with the pulmonary embolism. Moore, Dubi, and Korpi were all outplayed by Dawes.



So his lack of production was due to his focus on defense. Then how is he going to play a defensive role in the NHL and produce more than Ortmeyer?
It's not hard at all to be a fierce forechecker and produce more then Ortmeyer. In fact, it's so easy a caveman can do it. All considering how Orty just can't find the net. Seriously though, read shoeny's remarks on Moore and how he has put the package together and tightened the gap.

Plus, Moore is a Renney player A safe player.

Quote:
"He's gotten into the lineup and has acquitted (himself) well," said Hartford Coach and General Manager Jim Schoenfeld. "(He's one) of the players we have that we're comfortable with (that) we feel gives us the best chance of winning."


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06-04-2007, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 51tyutin51 View Post
It's not hard at all to be a fierce forechecker and produce more then Ortmeyer. In fact, it's so easy a caveman can do it. All considering how Orty just can't find the net. Seriously though, read shoeny's remarks on Moore and how he has put the package together and tightened the gap.
If you want to argue that a player is going to produce at the NHL level, you have to be able to point to success in the AHL (or Europe). Moore scored 8 goals in 79 games last year. Ortmeyer probably scores 5 goals in a full year. If Moore makes the Rangers, he will have less ice time and absolutely no PP time. Even if Moore can somehow match his AHL production, how much of a difference does 3 goals make? You'd have to find someone that can score 10-15 goals before I think we'd have a significant upgrade over Ortmeyer.

EDIT: I'm not arguing that Moore is not a safe player or a Renney type. I'm arguing that Moore has a lot to prove before his offensive prowess makes him an upgrade over Ortmeyer.

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06-04-2007, 12:14 PM
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If you want to argue that a player is going to produce at the NHL level, you have to be able to point to success in the AHL (or Europe). Moore scored 8 goals in 79 games last year. Ortmeyer probably scores 5 goals in a full year. If Moore makes the Rangers, he will have less ice time and absolutely no PP time. Even if Moore can somehow match his AHL production, how much of a difference does 3 goals make? You'd have to find someone that can score 10-15 goals before I think we'd have a significant upgrade over Ortmeyer.

EDIT: I'm not arguing that Moore is not a safe player or a Renney type. I'm arguing that Moore has a lot to prove before his offensive prowess makes him an upgrade over Ortmeyer.
IMO Moore can get 10-15 goals. I see him in the Hossa mold except more of a power forward. Sometimes these power forwards translate their game differently at the nhl level. He was really good during pre-season, all over the ice.

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