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05-01-2007, 01:44 PM
  #1
vladdy16
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Hasek

Throw as many stats and cliches at me as you want, go ahead and quote the media, tell me how many times he's saved our butts. But the last 4 goals(maybe not the cheechoo goal) have been HORRIBLE. No NHL goalie should be beat short side from the point by a wrist shot, no playoff goalie should make such a lazy giveaway behind his net and not do everything he can to get back in the net, and a team cannot afford to expell all their energy two nights earlier scratching out of a two zip hole, only to have their goalie give up and early lead the next game on a puck that was sliding along the ice at about 10 mph.

Look, I HATE it when fans always blame the goalie, and I'm not at all saying it's all dom's fault we are down 2-1, but the fact remains, the last string of goals have been awful, and Dom has not bounced back from the bad goals/performances like usual, and just because the media refuses to acknowledge it, doesn't mean it's not a problem.


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05-01-2007, 02:42 PM
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Chomped
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What about all the incredible and unlikely saves that he makes? Should he make all of those as well? Nobody is perfect. Sometimes there is just a good bounce for the other team. Goalies can't win games on their own, they need help from the guys in front of them.

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05-01-2007, 02:58 PM
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vladdy16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chomped View Post
What about all the incredible and unlikely saves that he makes? Should he make all of those as well? Nobody is perfect. Sometimes there is just a good bounce for the other team. Goalies can't win games on their own, they need help from the guys in front of them.
With maybe the exception of the Phaneuf save, I haven't seen any incredible or unlikely saves.

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05-01-2007, 03:12 PM
  #4
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I'd much rather have Dom in the net than Legace. What else is there to say? You'd prefer Belfour perhaps? Or a rookie?

Dom's been fine.

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05-01-2007, 04:03 PM
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That blueline short-side goal was actually tipped by Cheechoo, which it why it went in.

That 10mph along-the-ice goal by Clowe was about 3 inches outside of his reach. If you watch you'll see him stretched out as far as possible to reach it. I'd focus more on why Lidstrom was left as the only man in front of the net to defend Clowe and Thornton alone. Where was Lilja or Zetterberg helping to cover? You don't get caught 2-on-1 down low like that and Clowe's stick is never free to even take the shot. That goal isn't on Dom, it was a defensive breakdown.

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05-01-2007, 04:22 PM
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Dom has his moments but has by and large been terrific... meanwhile the team in front of him has scored 4 goals in 3 games. I realize goalies are an easy target in Detroit, and Hasek especially with his "no style" technique, but give me a break...

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05-01-2007, 04:37 PM
  #7
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He can't stop everything by himself....I can't blame him for last night....

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05-01-2007, 05:06 PM
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redwingsdude
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Sure he's played great most of the time, but what is the point of making those spectacular saves to keep us in the game only to allow bad goals? People keep talking about Hasek needing to "steal" a game for us, but the Hasek I have seen lately can't do that. When he was winning Vezina's back in Buffalo people weren't making up excuses for bad goals - because he rarely allowed them.

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05-01-2007, 05:11 PM
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Higgy4
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Originally Posted by redwingsdude View Post
Sure he's played great most of the time, but what is the point of making those spectacular saves to keep us in the game only to allow bad goals? People keep talking about Hasek needing to "steal" a game for us, but the Hasek I have seen lately can't do that. When he was winning Vezina's back in Buffalo people weren't making up excuses for bad goals - because he rarely allowed them.
Only in Buffalo? Wow, I guess you have a terrible memory. Remember the Hasek who had 6 shutouts in the Final 3 rounds of the 2002 playoffs? He was pretty f'ing good then too.

Look, the goals he has given up havent been great. But he has made great saves too. He made a number of fantastic saves last night when the entire Red Wings team was running around in their own zone delivering perfect passes to the San Jose players.

He has YET to give up more than 2 goals a game in this series. A team that gives up 2 or less goals normally has a good chance of winning. That is, if they score more than 1 goal.

Hockey fans are the most cliche of any of the major sports. If the team loses its either the refs or the goaltending that was the problem.

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05-01-2007, 05:12 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgy4 View Post
Hockey fans are the most cliche of any of the major sports. If the team loses its either the refs or the goaltending that was the problem.
Put the coach in that same breath.

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05-01-2007, 05:33 PM
  #11
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the Wings are not even in this series without Hasek.

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05-01-2007, 05:51 PM
  #12
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I think Nabby and Dom have played pretty evenly this series. If you agree with that, then the fault/credit for victory and failures goes to someone other than the goal position.

Specifically as it relates to the latter, if you would have said in training camp Hasek would give the Wings the kind of statistical production he has for his contract price, I'd say 100% of those polled would have said that the results would have been worth the cost. Hindsight is great, but even in hindsight to me, Hasek is not the reason the Wings are down 2-1 in the series.

Is Hasek the top net-minder in the League? Is he better than Luongo? Of course not. But he has done a good job and kept it close. The last game was one shot off the pipe from being tied.

For my part, I'd really love to see him sit and bring in one of the alternatives.

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05-01-2007, 06:54 PM
  #13
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This is funny. Stupid topic, but well .....

Hasek is 1-1 in this series. The team is 1-2. The team did not score a goal in game 1, so obviously the team lost that game not Hasek.

The lone game the team won is when they scored 3 goals. Other 2 games whcih they lost, they scored 1 goal combined. This should be obvious that the team not scoring is losing the games.

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05-01-2007, 08:31 PM
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redwingsdude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgy4 View Post
Only in Buffalo? Wow, I guess you have a terrible memory. Remember the Hasek who had 6 shutouts in the Final 3 rounds of the 2002 playoffs? He was pretty f'ing good then too.

Look, the goals he has given up havent been great. But he has made great saves too. He made a number of fantastic saves last night when the entire Red Wings team was running around in their own zone delivering perfect passes to the San Jose players.

He has YET to give up more than 2 goals a game in this series. A team that gives up 2 or less goals normally has a good chance of winning. That is, if they score more than 1 goal.

Hockey fans are the most cliche of any of the major sports. If the team loses its either the refs or the goaltending that was the problem.
1. When did I ever say only in Buffalo? That was just an example, obviously he was in his prime then. Yes, he was damn good on '02, no question, the point I'm making is that he isn't the goalie he once was. Hasek was still in top form during that run, but we are talking about the PRESENT, no need to defend how great he USED to be.

2. You're proving my point, he has made some GREAT saves, and also some crap goals, which makes those great saves negligable. If he can make those great saves, he needs to make the easy ones too, that is what I consider "stealing" a game.

3. No one is denying the lack of scoring, but that is not the issue of the thread, the point is Hasek isn't playing up to his abilities. I don't care how much you love him or how big a homer you are, it's the truth, he's lost a step.


But I guess with all the early exits in recent playoffs, everyone has to make up excuses for our beloved Wings.

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05-01-2007, 09:17 PM
  #15
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No one is making up excuses. The cycle is over. They have to rebuild and given that there's a cap and no 1st overall picks in the team's future... what did you expect? It's amazing that they can ice a team as good as we've had. These aren't excuses, but the reality of how to build a winner in this league. A lot of teams will never be able to do it. Some haven't won in 40 or more years, like 1962 I think!

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05-01-2007, 09:37 PM
  #16
Higgy4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redwingsdude View Post
But I guess with all the early exits in recent playoffs, everyone has to make up excuses for our beloved Wings.
The Red Wings have 4 goals in 3 games. Lets point the finger there.

Hasek has played well. Game 3 is a 6-1 score without him. After a bad start in Game 2 he played very well and allowed the team to come back. And the whole team stunk up the joint in Game 1.

The "blame the goalie" theory only works when there is actual evidence to back it up.


Last edited by Higgy4: 05-01-2007 at 09:59 PM.
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05-01-2007, 09:48 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redwingsdude View Post
3. No one is denying the lack of scoring, but that is not the issue of the thread, the point is Hasek isn't playing up to his abilities. I don't care how much you love him or how big a homer you are, it's the truth, he's lost a step.
and he's still better than any other realistic option the Wings had for bringing in a starting goalie this year. He's going out and giving the team a chance to win nearly every game and that's all you should ask of any goalie. If they steal a couple, that's gravy.

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05-01-2007, 11:10 PM
  #18
vladdy16
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I believe I specifically stated that I do not blame Dom for losing(the thread is titled "hasek", not "the reason we are losing, all I wanted to do was open a discussion about something that is a concern of mine), 2 goals a game is fine, but the fact is, both series, the other teams offense has been average at best(with the exception of a few spurts here and there) and cheap goals are hurting us right now. I firmly believe that Dom has been the weaker goalie in each series, and I believe that the video backs that up. Dom has been slow to react and out of position many times, and I resent the fact that it's been implied that simply because I have a critique of a certain position that I of course am only using it as a scape goat. I don't just watch the replays of goals and say "Oh, that should've been stopped." It's not just the goals he's let in. In game 2, there were two different instances where a Shark had a chance to score from the goaline while dom was lying flat on his back.

Look, I'm all for giving a guy with a good reputation the benefeit of the doubt, but that doesn't change the fact that Dom was in awful position for the first goal in game 2, that he was careless and lazy on the second goal, and in game three, he was laying down on the ice, and still couldn't take away the bottom half of the net. If someone would like to give me a time so I can go back and watch one of these spectacular saves that has kept us in the series.



BTW, Ray Emery is the only goalie left in the playoffs with a lower sv. % than Dom.

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05-01-2007, 11:22 PM
  #19
redwingsdude
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No one is making up excuses. The cycle is over. They have to rebuild and given that there's a cap and no 1st overall picks in the team's future... what did you expect? It's amazing that they can ice a team as good as we've had. These aren't excuses, but the reality of how to build a winner in this league. A lot of teams will never be able to do it. Some haven't won in 40 or more years, like 1962 I think!
I'm happy as the hell the Wings have iced a team this good considering this was supposed to be rebuilding, don't get me wrong. But what I am saying is that Hasek can and should be better! He isn't losing the games for us, but he could do more IMO. People are making excuses for him.

"Sure he allowed some God-awful goals, but did you see that save he made after giving the puck away?"

Thats the kind of stuff that pisses me off. It's an exaggeration, but people are a little too accepting of this type of play. Hasek is supposed to be an elite goalie, elite goalies make flashy saves and easy ones!

Are all of you people really ok with his play so far? Maybe it's just me, but I expect him to make these saves, and keep us in the games that we can't find our offense. I'd rather see him miss that chance at an unbelievable save, and not allow two bad goals later. That and STAY IN THE NET!

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05-01-2007, 11:24 PM
  #20
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The guy is over 40. He's retired once. His last two seasons have been ended early by injury.
He's playing for a bargain basement price.

The Red Wings are getting MORE than they are paying for.

Focusing on Hasek's downside is pointless.

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05-01-2007, 11:41 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by vladdy16 View Post
Throw as many stats and cliches at me as you want, go ahead and quote the media, tell me how many times he's saved our butts. But the last 4 goals(maybe not the cheechoo goal) have been HORRIBLE. No NHL goalie should be beat short side from the point by a wrist shot, no playoff goalie should make such a lazy giveaway behind his net and not do everything he can to get back in the net, and a team cannot afford to expell all their energy two nights earlier scratching out of a two zip hole, only to have their goalie give up and early lead the next game on a puck that was sliding along the ice at about 10 mph.

Look, I HATE it when fans always blame the goalie, and I'm not at all saying it's all dom's fault we are down 2-1, but the fact remains, the last string of goals have been awful, and Dom has not bounced back from the bad goals/performances like usual, and just because the media refuses to acknowledge it, doesn't mean it's not a problem.
Okay, I'm not thrilled about the go ahead goal in last nights game, where he went down way to early and left half the net open, or some other goals previously, but he was good enough get the Wings through the first round, including some spectacular saves. Did I mention the Wings made it through the first round for only the second time since 2003?

Sure, it'd have been nice to get an even better goalie, but for the price the Wings are paying, he's far superior than any alternative I can think of.Frankly, the way the Wings have played this series, they deserve to be down 2-1, and I suspect very few goalies could have changed that.

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05-02-2007, 12:18 AM
  #22
vladdy16
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Why does it matter how much we are paying him, or what his role on this team was supposed to be? It's the playoffs and I think it's fair to say that Hasek could play better, and probably needs to play better for us to be sucessful.

Nobody brings up contracts or age as an excuse when evaluating other players on the team, I see no reason why it should enter into this specific discussion. Did anyone ever defend Lilja using his contract as ammunition?

Nowhere did I say that somebody else should be playing, or that we should've signed freakin Ed Belfour, or kept Manny Legace. All I am saying is that, for me, the making a save you shouldn't make, and letting in a goal you shouldn't let in ratio isn't where I'd like it to be.

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05-02-2007, 04:40 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Higgy4 View Post
The Red Wings have 4 goals in 3 games. Lets point the finger there.

Hasek has played well. Game 3 is a 6-1 score without him. After a bad start in Game 2 he played very well and allowed the team to come back. And the whole team stunk up the joint in Game 1.

The "blame the goalie" theory only works when there is actual evidence to back it up.

I completely agree. I was at the game and if not for Hasek, the Sharks would have won by a much larger score. He robbed Cheecho and Guerin a couple of times. The fundamental problem is that the Wings (and the Sharks for that matter) are not scoring. So far, this series has been a bust in terms of offensive excitement. Maybe with Holmstrom back and Joe Thorton double shifting, we might see some more offensive fireworks.

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05-02-2007, 06:19 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Chomped View Post
What about all the incredible and unlikely saves that he makes? Should he make all of those as well?
Hasek put the 'un' in unorthodox.

When goals go in he looks like a fool, when they stay out he looks like a genius.

He has been like that his whole career.

Note to Wings skaters: grab the dang rebounds!

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05-02-2007, 07:33 AM
  #25
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don't go blaming hasek please...he's 45 for god sakes and hes playing amazing for a 45 year old goalie..i want to see u play when ur 45 in nets tell me how hard that would be? He only has let ine 2 goals each game which is amazing against the sharks..trust me without him this series would be out of reach for the red wings

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