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Russia expect to sign NHL-IIHF transfer agreement.

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05-01-2007, 06:31 PM
  #1
iceman42
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Russia expect to sign NHL-IIHF transfer agreement.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/s...e=NHLHeadlines

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05-01-2007, 08:31 PM
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does this make cherapanov more attractive to the flyers????

i have been waivering all year between kane & cherapanov...i was leaning toward kane because of trouble signing cherapanov...

when i hear homer saying that cherapanov is inconsistent i wonder if he is trying not to show his hand especially if they are considering moving down

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05-01-2007, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jrosselli View Post
does this make cherapanov more attractive to the flyers????

i have been waivering all year between kane & cherapanov...i was leaning toward kane because of trouble signing cherapanov...

when i hear homer saying that cherapanov is inconsistent i wonder if he is trying not to show his hand especially if they are considering moving down
I think he's still off the radar for the #2 pick. Homer seems to like a few guys more than him.

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05-02-2007, 07:20 AM
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However it might be easier to get our Russian picks over when the time comes.

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05-02-2007, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrosselli View Post
does this make cherapanov more attractive to the flyers????

i have been waivering all year between kane & cherapanov...i was leaning toward kane because of trouble signing cherapanov...

when i hear homer saying that cherapanov is inconsistent i wonder if he is trying not to show his hand especially if they are considering moving down
Voracek doesn't play in Russia, so (I hope to God) this makes no difference to us at #2. Let someone else take Samsonov Jr. in the top 5.

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05-09-2007, 03:07 PM
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http://msn.foxsports.com/nhl/story/6786384

Russia isn't signing any transfer agreement with the NHL in the forseeable future. This reminds of the first agreement where Russia was supposed to sign but never did. Looks like they are still trying to exempt the hockey players from traditional Russian labor law but they've been trying that for 2 years.

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05-09-2007, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyers_01 View Post
http://msn.foxsports.com/nhl/story/6786384

Russia isn't signing any transfer agreement with the NHL in the forseeable future. This reminds of the first agreement where Russia was supposed to sign but never did. Looks like they are still trying to exempt the hockey players from traditional Russian labor law but they've been trying that for 2 years.
thing is... i agree with the Russian position on this.. and i also think you're eventually going to see the other leagues come around to the same position. the biggest factor against the NHL in this debate is that they have a very similar process for Football players over here and transfer fees are negotiated... they have that model right next to them as they're watching the young kids they developed go and be the product of another league.

personally, i think the NHL needs to seriously negotiate with everyone over there and come to a system of compensation that everyone agrees to and stop acting like they have some god-given right to all the best talent in the world without paying the teams that groomed it.

the Russians want a deal, because they're getting the shaft the way it is right now... but NHL needs to help them save face a bit.

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05-09-2007, 09:40 PM
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I agree that the Russians are getting the shaft. $200,000 for a potential star like Ovechkin/Malkin is a joke. Now, I can't see the NHL cave and give the Russians the "millions" they are seeking, but have a neutral committee determine who the top 5-10 European players are, and place a price tag on them of $500,000-$1,000,000, and leave the rest at $200,000. Not sure this could/would work, but it would be much more fair. $10,000,000-$12,000,000 per year for all the incoming European players just seems like chump change when you consider the amount of players' clubs that have to share that.

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05-09-2007, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by bobbyboucher24 View Post
I agree that the Russians are getting the shaft. $200,000 for a potential star like Ovechkin/Malkin is a joke. Now, I can't see the NHL cave and give the Russians the "millions" they are seeking, but have a neutral committee determine who the top 5-10 European players are, and place a price tag on them of $500,000-$1,000,000, and leave the rest at $200,000. Not sure this could/would work, but it would be much more fair. $10,000,000-$12,000,000 per year for all the incoming European players just seems like chump change when you consider the amount of players' clubs that have to share that.
i'm telling you, the issue here is the way FIFA works... and i think the NHL has displayed a complete ignorance of how that works in how they've handled this. for most of the countries over there this isn't a huge deal... but for a couple of them Russia and Sweden in particular, they really should play much harder with the NHL concerning these kids coming over.

I would suggest that they do a couple of things:

1) work out a deal similar to the CHL where European born players would go back and play for their old club teams in Europe rather than go to the AHL before they turn 20. i'm not sure how many players this would effect, but I'm sure some would be going back... i realize the majority of European players who aren't ready get left in Europe until they're 20. however, if they could figure out a way to maintain NHL "rights" while allowing players to continue to play in Europe that would be a bone i'm sure the SEL and RSL would like to have as it would improve the quality of player over there.

2) create a system where players are negotiated a bit more than just being on the set ladder... since not all players are created equal. cuz the real problem is that NHL, RSL, SEL... they're 'products.' those guys over there have just as much right to the hockey talent they need to build their 'product' as anyone in the NHL. if the next Gretzky is playing in the RSL... you really telling me he isn't worth more than 1 million to a NHL club?

the real problem here is that if this gets out of control, teams without the high financial standing in the NHL are going to have a problem drafting super talented european players, so you're going to get the big boys drafting and paying for the rights to these guys.

it's a big issue and i think the NHL has taken it far too lightly and they act like they "deserve" these guys without really considering the value of the players to each team... how much does Crosby equate to in revenue for the Penguins? how much does Ovechkin amount to? it's a lot of cash.

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05-09-2007, 10:13 PM
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Actually I think they should write the agreement such that any Russian player (or player under contract to another pro team) gets 1 mil, 500k for 2nd rnd, 250k for 3rd and 150k for any other rnd. Any player who went undrafted there is no compensation. If you want a bigger named star, pony up bigger bucks.

The only down side to this is that (as far as I know) none of the junior teams get compensation from players drafted by the NHL. At least they dont get say 1 mil for soemone like Crosby. Do the Russian teams actually do more to develope their young players who come over than any of the Canadian junior teams??? What abotu their bantom and peewee teams??? Where do we draw the line??? I think THIS is the main reason the NHL doesn't want to pay just the Russians for their players. Teams in the "O" for instance are just as deserving of compensation as the Russian teams.

It's probably not right the way it currently is but you're going to open up a whole can of worms if you start paying them "finders fees."

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05-10-2007, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyboucher24 View Post
I agree that the Russians are getting the shaft. $200,000 for a potential star like Ovechkin/Malkin is a joke. Now, I can't see the NHL cave and give the Russians the "millions" they are seeking, but have a neutral committee determine who the top 5-10 European players are, and place a price tag on them of $500,000-$1,000,000, and leave the rest at $200,000. Not sure this could/would work, but it would be much more fair. $10,000,000-$12,000,000 per year for all the incoming European players just seems like chump change when you consider the amount of players' clubs that have to share that.
Russia is getting the shaft because they cant afford to pay these players. If you cant afford it then thats end of story. No other league comps other countries on the money lost when players leave. and as far as Russia deserving millions they wouldnt earn that so they sholdnt be getting that. They arent playing those guys here they are obviouly bringing in less there so they shouldnt get the amount that the player is getting here. And after what Malkin did they better take whatever they can get.

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05-10-2007, 08:00 AM
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Russia is getting the shaft because they cant afford to pay these players. If you cant afford it then thats end of story. No other league comps other countries on the money lost when players leave. and as far as Russia deserving millions they wouldnt earn that so they sholdnt be getting that. They arent playing those guys here they are obviouly bringing in less there so they shouldnt get the amount that the player is getting here. And after what Malkin did they better take whatever they can get.
Russia is paying these players, or capable of, a lot more than what they're getting on their entry level contracts. There is also no income tax over there and a lot of perks.

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05-10-2007, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Russia is paying these players, or capable of, a lot more than what they're getting on their entry level contracts. There is also no income tax over there and a lot of perks.
I think this is the first time I've ever heard the word "perks" in reference to living in Russia.

The fact is, there is no system that works for both parties. Introducing a transfer fee system will totally wipe out any parity the NHL created by introducing the salary cap. The richer teams will be able to afford better players because teams without the revenue won't be able to compete.

The NHL is the best hockey league in the world, regardless of its flaws. Paying an average of $200K per player drafted out of Europe is more than fair, considering the miniscule percentage of drafted players even contributing at the NHL level in their careers. How many players like Crosby, Ovechkin or Malkin do we expect to come out of Russia or Europe in general? We're talking about special players with superstar qualities that are supposed to come along every 10-15 years. It just so happens there's 3-4 of them within a 5 year span. Paying $200K just to draft a guy who MIGHT have a slim chance of playing as a 4th line plumber seems a little ridiculous. It averages out with the small ratio of players that actually develop into star players.

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05-10-2007, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Blindside9711 View Post
I think this is the first time I've ever heard the word "perks" in reference to living in Russia.

The fact is, there is no system that works for both parties. Introducing a transfer fee system will totally wipe out any parity the NHL created by introducing the salary cap. The richer teams will be able to afford better players because teams without the revenue won't be able to compete.

The NHL is the best hockey league in the world, regardless of its flaws. Paying an average of $200K per player drafted out of Europe is more than fair, considering the miniscule percentage of drafted players even contributing at the NHL level in their careers. How many players like Crosby, Ovechkin or Malkin do we expect to come out of Russia or Europe in general? We're talking about special players with superstar qualities that are supposed to come along every 10-15 years. It just so happens there's 3-4 of them within a 5 year span. Paying $200K just to draft a guy who MIGHT have a slim chance of playing as a 4th line plumber seems a little ridiculous. It averages out with the small ratio of players that actually develop into star players.
When you're getting free luxury cars and free living... to go with a couple million in salary and no income tax, yeah, there are some perks to playing over there. Obviously I wouldn't expect too many NA players to be making that decision, but there are reasons to play in Russia if you're a middling player... you can make more.

We're not talking about the lower level draft picks... those guys don't care about them at all. What they want is the ability to negotiate transfer fees for the high-profile picks who are expected to be very good... the Ovechkin's, Malkin's, etc. The value of the other guys -- the ones that don't make it -- aren't an aspect of this at all... it's the guys who have a ton of value to the NHL (notice all the Ovechkin ads?) that they feel they're getting ripped off on. And they're right... they are.

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05-10-2007, 09:29 AM
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I really think the FIFA comparison is an overused and flawed one. When they sell players, which is what they do, the player has no option. They are sold to another team and the player is obligated to play out his contract for his new team. When the NHL drafts a player the player has no such obligation. The player can ignore the draft and continue playing in russia, play in sweden, whatever. The player still decides what's best for him. Malkin could've ignored the NHL and stayed in Russia and made a good living with no consequences.

Now look at Perezhogin (a montreal player) from Rotoworld :

Alexander Perezhogin inked a deal with Salavat Yulayev Ufa in the Russian Super League, according to the Montreal Gazette.

Don Meehan, Perezhogin's agent, said that the contract will net his client $1.7 million U.S., which is a significant pay increase from the $627,000 he made last season playing for the Canadiens. "That works out to about $3.4 million gross in the NHL and it's unlikely the Montreal Canadiens could match that," said Meehan.


Does the NHL get any compensation for a player ditching the NHL to go back to Russia because he thinks he can make more money? No.

I really don't see where the cries of "we need to send Russia more money" when they can pay players the equivalent of 3.4 million US to play over there and the players are free to choose where they want to play.

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05-10-2007, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyers_01 View Post
I really think the FIFA comparison is an overused and flawed one. When they sell players, which is what they do, the player has no option. They are sold to another team and the player is obligated to play out his contract for his new team. When the NHL drafts a player the player has no such obligation. The player can ignore the draft and continue playing in russia, play in sweden, whatever. The player still decides what's best for him. Malkin could've ignored the NHL and stayed in Russia and made a good living with no consequences.
This is quite wrong, soccer players aren't sold without their own permission. Normally one club asks the other if they are allowed to talk to a player and how much it would cost to buy him. Then they talk to the player and prepare a contract. The player either agrees to the contract or he stays with his old club.

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05-10-2007, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
We're not talking about the lower level draft picks... those guys don't care about them at all. What they want is the ability to negotiate transfer fees for the high-profile picks who are expected to be very good... the Ovechkin's, Malkin's, etc. The value of the other guys -- the ones that don't make it -- aren't an aspect of this at all... it's the guys who have a ton of value to the NHL (notice all the Ovechkin ads?) that they feel they're getting ripped off on. And they're right... they are.
I realize they're getting jipped on the superstar guys like AO and Malkin... But the proposed agreement (as I understand it) pays an average of about $200K per player drafted (and signed?), regardless of whether they make it to the NHL or not.
The Russians could have at least got some kind of compensation for AO or Malkin, but they didn't sign the agreement, therefore nothing was legally binding and every time they tried in a court, it got thrown out (rightfully so). They have no one but themselves to blame for losing out on their cash cows thus far, but I just don't see any kind of agreement that gives both sides what they want.

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05-10-2007, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Rick Deckard View Post
This is quite wrong, soccer players aren't sold without their own permission. Normally one club asks the other if they are allowed to talk to a player and how much it would cost to buy him. Then they talk to the player and prepare a contract. The player either agrees to the contract or he stays with his old club.
Player also gets a cut of the transfer fees.

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05-10-2007, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Rick Deckard View Post
This is quite wrong, soccer players aren't sold without their own permission. Normally one club asks the other if they are allowed to talk to a player and how much it would cost to buy him. Then they talk to the player and prepare a contract. The player either agrees to the contract or he stays with his old club.
Sorry, I got that wrong then. I still don't like the comparison though.

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05-10-2007, 09:52 AM
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Does the NHL get any compensation for a player ditching the NHL to go back to Russia because he thinks he can make more money? No.
you're missing the point... these guys are UNDER contract in the RSL, SEL, etc. when they come over... which is why a transfer fee is necessary. if they didn't have a contract with a club over there then, yes, they could just sign.

if a NHL player doesn't have a contract with his team (TB player did this last year) he has every right to sign wherever the hell he wants. if a team in Europe wanted a player under contract to a NHL club they would have to pay the NHL team to get the player out of that deal.

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05-10-2007, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Blindside9711 View Post
I realize they're getting jipped on the superstar guys like AO and Malkin... But the proposed agreement (as I understand it) pays an average of about $200K per player drafted (and signed?), regardless of whether they make it to the NHL or not.
The Russians could have at least got some kind of compensation for AO or Malkin, but they didn't sign the agreement, therefore nothing was legally binding and every time they tried in a court, it got thrown out (rightfully so). They have no one but themselves to blame for losing out on their cash cows thus far, but I just don't see any kind of agreement that gives both sides what they want.
The Russians don't want THAT IIHF deal... that's the entire thing. They want to be able to negotiate a fee between their club and the NHL club, not deal with some set fee.

I agree, the Russians are getting screwed, which is why they should want some kind of deal to get done... however, i'm just pointing out WHY the view over there is different from what you see in NA and why they feel the way they do... the NHL, IMO, has put very little effort into understanding why clubs feel the way they do over there... and over here fans tend to operate under the belief that the NHL has the god-given right to all the players they want (not saying you do, just see it in a lot that i read).

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05-10-2007, 09:55 AM
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Sorry, I got that wrong then. I still don't like the comparison though.
maybe not, but my point isn't about making a comparison to it... it's about pointing to the fact that the European model of how player contracts work in sports is completely different from NA... which is a big part of the problem here.

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05-10-2007, 10:20 AM
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you're missing the point... these guys are UNDER contract in the RSL, SEL, etc. when they come over... which is why a transfer fee is necessary. if they didn't have a contract with a club over there then, yes, they could just sign.

if a NHL player doesn't have a contract with his team (TB player did this last year) he has every right to sign wherever the hell he wants. if a team in Europe wanted a player under contract to a NHL club they would have to pay the NHL team to get the player out of that deal.
I have never heard of that. Are there any examples of another league paying the NHL for their players?

What you are saying though is if the player's contract runs out with his current Russian team, then the Russians should get no compensation? Didn't Malkin have to extend his contract BEFORE they let him have his passport back to leave the country? He also legally terminated his RUS contract (even though his 2 week notice was ignored by the Russians) before playing for the Penguins so the Russians don't deserve anything for him since he wasn't under RUS contract at that point?

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05-10-2007, 10:29 AM
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jester why doesn't the nhl get the rights to whatever player they want? players come over here for a reason and that's to play in the best league in the world. therefore, the best league in the world has the right to the best players in the world. I don't see why the nhl owes russia anything at all.

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05-10-2007, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyers_01 View Post
I have never heard of that. Are there any examples of another league paying the NHL for their players?

What you are saying though is if the player's contract runs out with his current Russian team, then the Russians should get no compensation? Didn't Malkin have to extend his contract BEFORE they let him have his passport back to leave the country? He also legally terminated his RUS contract (even though his 2 week notice was ignored by the Russians) before playing for the Penguins so the Russians don't deserve anything for him since he wasn't under RUS contract at that point?
Malkin had two years on his contract, then Velichkin forced him to sign a new contract with better salary and only one year duration. After he signed that contract he travelled with Metallurg to Finland and ran away. He was under contract than he left, in any case.

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