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TB's pursuit of Hamrlik

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12-21-2003, 03:30 AM
  #1
CREW99AW
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TB's pursuit of Hamrlik

a day or so ago it was reported that MM had scouted TB.

Lisa on mania posted this today:
Sunday, December 21st Column
QUOTE
The Lightning has renewed talks with the Isles about D Roman Hamrlik. Just one problem: GM Jay Feaster doesn't want to give up anybody in return ...
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

that quote reminds me of a comment from a Toronto Sun article a few weeks ago, when the Leafs were pursuing Peca.The Sun reported how Ferguson bristled when MM asked for the rookie Stajan.

We better hope that Wang doesn't pull the rug out from under MM,telling him to dump salary and get back whatever he can.Isles paid a hefty price for Hamrlik(and Peca).I'd hate seeing them get crap back.

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12-21-2003, 05:10 AM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW
We better hope that Wang doesn't pull the rug out from under MM,telling him to dump salary and get back whatever he can.Isles paid a hefty price for Hamrlik(and Peca).I'd hate seeing them get crap back.
Unfortunately I really doubt our ability to get anything close to equal return for either of these guys. Stajan, for example, is having a nice little year going for himself, but he is not really a top tier prospect, and almost no one other than die hard Leaf fans think he will be much more than a decent third liner. Not to mention, Toronto wasn't willing to give him up, so presumably we would be getting *less* than Stajan. If I don't consider Stajan enough I get dizzy thinking of what we'll actually get back.

As for Hammer, the talk has been Tampa wanting to center a deal around Frederic Isbis--, uh, Modin. Modin is a decent second liner, but is not really the answer for what we need unless as a left-handed shot somehow he miraculously clicks with Yashin, but that's just hoping for the best against the odds. You look at Modin's makeup and scratch your head trying to figure out why he's not a perennial 30 goal scorer, but at this stage in his career you just have to accept that he's not going to finally hit that potential and that his one foray into the 30-goal territory is the exception in his career, not the rule. Not that he's an old fogie or anything, but at 28 pretty much what you see is what you get from him. Besides, if playing with Lecavillier and Richards under the demanding coach Tortorella doesn't get consistent effort and more goals out of him, why would lining him up with constant underachievers like Yashin and Kvasha under "The Man with No Answers" and un-motivator Stirling bring out Modin's best?

The other Tampa rumor has us asking either for Svitov or Alexeev as the centerpiece in a Hammer swap. I like both these prospects, but I don't see either Svitov or Alexeev + spare parts making us much better. Maybe in a few years it might if the main cog (Svitov or Alexeev) that we get really blossoms, but the problem I have with this trade is that neither of these guys really is a sure-thing to turn into a scorer, and a scorer is what we need.

Don't get me wrong, no prospect is a sure-thing, especially when it is scoring you are forecasting, but I see these two guys as bigger risks than most when it comes to developing offense. The high-end of what Svitov could develop into is projected to be a Bobby Holik (the New Jersey Devils version, not the New York Ranger$ Millionaires' Lounge Club version). Taking the safe bet that he won't actually reach the peak of what people think he could be (how few prospects do???), the more likely curve he will follow is he will become a good, defensively reliable third liner who can play with an edge and chip in 10-20 goals depending on how his year is going. That's not enough for Hammer.

Alexeev is another guy that people forecast as having good scoring potential because he happens to be big and skates well and can stickhandle well. However, he's never been a big scorer in his career and in fact started out his hockey life as a defenseman. He reminds me way too much of Oleg Kvasha -- a guy people thought *should have* been able to blossom into a scorer but who base that projection not on demonstrated scoring ability as a junior but instead simply because you like his physical attributes. Unfortunately, as is said again and again and as Kvashuck ably demonstrates, you can't teach scoring.

So, if we are going to move a Peca or Hammer for prospects, rather than for players who are meant to make us better now, it had better be for either a prospect who is a can't miss physical defenseman or a forward with a track record of having a scoring touch, and not just another guy who Milbury falls in love with just because he's big and can skate.

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12-21-2003, 06:07 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe C.
Unfortunately I really doubt our ability to get anything close to equal return for either of these guys. Stajan, for example, is having a nice little year going for himself, but he is not really a top tier prospect, and almost no one other than die hard Leaf fans think he will be much more than a decent third liner. Not to mention, Toronto wasn't willing to give him up, so presumably we would be getting *less* than Stajan. If I don't consider Stajan enough I get dizzy thinking of what we'll actually get back.

As for Hammer, the talk has been Tampa wanting to center a deal around Frederic Isbis--, uh, Modin. Modin is a decent second liner, but is not really the answer for what we need unless as a left-handed shot somehow he miraculously clicks with Yashin, but that's just hoping for the best against the odds. You look at Modin's makeup and scratch your head trying to figure out why he's not a perennial 30 goal scorer, but at this stage in his career you just have to accept that he's not going to finally hit that potential and that his one foray into the 30-goal territory is the exception in his career, not the rule. Not that he's an old fogie or anything, but at 28 pretty much what you see is what you get from him. Besides, if playing with Lecavillier and Richards under the demanding coach Tortorella doesn't get consistent effort and more goals out of him, why would lining him up with constant underachievers like Yashin and Kvasha under "The Man with No Answers" and un-motivator Stirling bring out Modin's best?

The other Tampa rumor has us asking either for Svitov or Alexeev as the centerpiece in a Hammer swap. I like both these prospects, but I don't see either Svitov or Alexeev + spare parts making us much better. Maybe in a few years it might if the main cog (Svitov or Alexeev) that we get really blossoms, but the problem I have with this trade is that neither of these guys really is a sure-thing to turn into a scorer, and a scorer is what we need.

Don't get me wrong, no prospect is a sure-thing, especially when it is scoring you are forecasting, but I see these two guys as bigger risks than most when it comes to developing offense. The high-end of what Svitov could develop into is projected to be a Bobby Holik (the New Jersey Devils version, not the New York Ranger$ Millionaires' Lounge Club version). Taking the safe bet that he won't actually reach the peak of what people think he could be (how few prospects do???), the more likely curve he will follow is he will become a good, defensively reliable third liner who can play with an edge and chip in 10-20 goals depending on how his year is going. That's not enough for Hammer.

Alexeev is another guy that people forecast as having good scoring potential because he happens to be big and skates well and can stickhandle well. However, he's never been a big scorer in his career and in fact started out his hockey life as a defenseman. He reminds me way too much of Oleg Kvasha -- a guy people thought *should have* been able to blossom into a scorer but who base that projection not on demonstrated scoring ability as a junior but instead simply because you like his physical attributes. Unfortunately, as is said again and again and as Kvashuck ably demonstrates, you can't teach scoring.

So, if we are going to move a Peca or Hammer for prospects, rather than for players who are meant to make us better now, it had better be for either a prospect who is a can't miss physical defenseman or a forward with a track record of having a scoring touch, and not just another guy who Milbury falls in love with just because he's big and can skate.
They are playing like crap. If they start removing players, they better bring in guys to help the team. Mike Milbury keeps saying, "I'm always looking for ways to improve the team". Well, Modin, Alexeev, or Svitov makes the team worse.

The only TB players he should be interested in is Brad Richard or Khabibulin. If Feaster says no, Milbury should hang up the phone.

TB doesn't have many assets to trade for a d-man like Hamrlik, and the Isles paid a high price to acquire him. They better not give him away for crap.

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12-21-2003, 06:11 AM
  #4
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ok

Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW
a day or so ago it was reported that MM had scouted TB.

Lisa on mania posted this today:
Sunday, December 21st Column
QUOTE
The Lightning has renewed talks with the Isles about D Roman Hamrlik. Just one problem: GM Jay Feaster doesn't want to give up anybody in return ...
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

that quote reminds me of a comment from a Toronto Sun article a few weeks ago, when the Leafs were pursuing Peca.The Sun reported how Ferguson bristled when MM asked for the rookie Stajan.

We better hope that Wang doesn't pull the rug out from under MM,telling him to dump salary and get back whatever he can.Isles paid a hefty price for Hamrlik(and Peca).I'd hate seeing them get crap back.
Bruce Garroich said that in his column.

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Old
12-21-2003, 07:43 AM
  #5
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Isn't there another Milbury we can make a deal with?

Thats the only way Milbury will be able to get any fair value, heck maybe win the deal for once.

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Old
12-21-2003, 07:53 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozbad
Isn't there another Milbury we can make a deal with?

Thats the only way Milbury will be able to get any fair value, heck maybe win the deal for once.
I'm hoping if a major deal is made, it'll be made at the trade deadline,when the teams who consider themselves to be serious contenders will be looking for 1-2 missing pieces to their cup run.

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Old
12-21-2003, 09:46 AM
  #7
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k

Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW
I'm hoping if a major deal is made, it'll be made at the trade deadline,when the teams who consider themselves to be serious contenders will be looking for 1-2 missing pieces to their cup run.
Well, we're expected to have a playoff spot or be contending for a playoff spot, so if we're making a cup run we won't make a major deal like that at that time. I'd expect MM to try and shake things up now to improve this team, help our playoff shots and to lose some salary.

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Old
12-21-2003, 09:55 AM
  #8
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Isles should explore the possibility of aquiring Khabibulin for Hamrlik ,Snow

isles would probably have to take on one of Tampa's stiffs though (Keefe)to make the salaries jive .

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Old
12-21-2003, 11:10 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isles72
Isles should explore the possibility of aquiring Khabibulin for Hamrlik ,Snow

isles would probably have to take on one of Tampa's stiffs though (Keefe)to make the salaries jive .
I cannot see the Bolts trading Kkabibulin, he is a stopper and that's what the Isles need. Grahame and Snow are career backups who struggle when overworked.

There is no rush on Hamrlik unless it's to acquire some real speed, skill and scoring for Yashin now. After what happened with Wiemer teams are only going to try and rob Milbury in a Hamrlk trade, which is why he should go nowhere.

He is not unrestricted this summer, he is not getting a huge raise based on how he has produced in arbitration.

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