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Old
05-07-2007, 04:02 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
When have the Flyers ever cared about PR?
He was talking about Lightning and/or Sharks in this case

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05-07-2007, 04:45 PM
  #52
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I'd say they will trade Nabokov 1st.
Nabby for St. Louis.

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Old
05-07-2007, 04:49 PM
  #53
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Nabby for St. Louis.
St. Louis has a NTC...

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05-07-2007, 05:12 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
St. Louis has a NTC...
Didn't stop Roenick and Forsberg from being dealt. Although, if you look at Tampa's depth at wing, they'd be making a huge mistake in dealing St. Louis.

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05-07-2007, 05:39 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Roger's Pancreas View Post
Didn't stop Roenick and Forsberg from being dealt. Although, if you look at Tampa's depth at wing, they'd be making a huge mistake in dealing St. Louis.
right, but there are reasons for both... Roenick, for example, has some ideas for life after hockey and thus he agreed as long as they would send him to a very small list.

Forsberg was on a dreadful team and with uncertain career ahead of him.

St. Louis is on a good team, in a good location, making good money, riding a NTC he just got this past summer. Any trade they make should make the team a bit deeper and free up some cash to help them out... theoretically, keeping it a good team.

Obviously NTCs can not be a problem, but that's entirely up to the player. Come up with a plausible reason for St. Louis to waive his NTC, and i'm on board with him being a truly tradeable commodity this offseason.

Note - This same logic can be applied to Brad Richards as soon as his NTC kicks in, which is why it is rather important that Feaster do that deal quickly if he's going to do it... Once you give a player a NTC, you're stuck with them unless they have a good reason to leave. You cannot negotiate a contract to give a player more money in the NHL (which is what happens in MLB normally) and so forth... no reason to waive a NTC if you like TB.

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05-07-2007, 08:12 PM
  #56
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I don't know why some on here think Vinny Lecavalier is a top 5 centerman in the league. He's had one, ONE, very good season. Personally, I think Vinny is the most overrated player in the game today. He's not top five by any stretch at all. Let him start making the players around him better and then maybe Vinny would warrant some consideration. Right now, I'd say that the top five in the league in no particular order are Thornton, Crosby, Jokinen, Spezza, and Datsyuk would be ahead of Lecavalier. Even Lecavalier's teammate Brad Richards I'd mark ahead of him.

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05-07-2007, 08:37 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I don't know why some on here think Vinny Lecavalier is a top 5 centerman in the league. He's had one, ONE, very good season.
LeCavalier isn't only a top five center in the game, he's in the top two. After facing Primeau in 2004, LeCavalier changed his game to include a more physical element. The end result was two excellent playoff runs, and one very good season. It finally looks like he put everything together. Could he have another relapse? Sure. But as it stands right now, LeCavalier is brilliant offensively, willing to backcheck, hardhitting, and willing to drop the gloves.
Quote:
Personally, I think Vinny is the most overrated player in the game today. He's not top five by any stretch at all. Let him start making the players around him better and then maybe Vinny would warrant some consideration.
He's been carrying Prospal around for years.
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Right now, I'd say that the top five in the league in no particular order are Thornton, Crosby, Jokinen, Spezza, and Datsyuk would be ahead of Lecavalier. Even Lecavalier's teammate Brad Richards I'd mark ahead of him.
Go for it. We all have our opinions, but I for one disagree.

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05-08-2007, 01:22 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Roger's Pancreas View Post
Didn't stop Roenick and Forsberg from being dealt. Although, if you look at Tampa's depth at wing, they'd be making a huge mistake in dealing St. Louis.
yup they would be. If your going to deal him deal him for some more forwards, maybe gain some depth in that organization there, because if you look down in Springfield there is NOTHING down there for NHL ready talent.

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05-08-2007, 02:03 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I don't know why some on here think Vinny Lecavalier is a top 5 centerman in the league. He's had one, ONE, very good season. Personally, I think Vinny is the most overrated player in the game today. He's not top five by any stretch at all. Let him start making the players around him better and then maybe Vinny would warrant some consideration. Right now, I'd say that the top five in the league in no particular order are Thornton, Crosby, Jokinen, Spezza, and Datsyuk would be ahead of Lecavalier. Even Lecavalier's teammate Brad Richards I'd mark ahead of him.
Theres no way datsyuk or jokinen are ahead of Lecavalier, let alone top 5 in the NHL

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05-08-2007, 02:09 PM
  #60
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NHL centers.
1. Crosby
2. Big Joe and Vinny
3. Spezza

Everyone else..

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05-08-2007, 03:30 PM
  #61
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TSN.CA: also reported on potential changes for the Sharks in the wake of yet another early playoff exit. Darren Dreger doesn't believe head coach Ron Wilson could lose his job due to the lack of available coaching experience, but does expect GM Wilson could shake up his roster, starting by possibly shopping team captain Patrick Marleau, who had a disappointing 2007 post-season. Bob McKenzie also suggested the Sharks need to solidify their goaltending by deciding if Evgeni Nabokov or Vesa Toskala is their starter and trading the other, and also noted Scott Hannan is eligible for UFA status this summer.

Spector's Note: I concur with Dreger and McKenzie. I doubt Ron Wilson gets fired, but this team needs a vocal, experienced, heart-and-soul leader, and Marleau ain't it. The Sharks will have a tough time out-bidding other teams for someone like Chris Drury, but if, say, Marleau were shopped or packaged with Toskala, that could be enticing bait to bring in that vocal leader.

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05-08-2007, 04:06 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by markzab View Post
Spector's Note: I concur with Dreger and McKenzie. I doubt Ron Wilson gets fired, but this team needs a vocal, experienced, heart-and-soul leader, and Marleau ain't it. The Sharks will have a tough time out-bidding other teams for someone like Chris Drury, but if, say, Marleau were shopped or packaged with Toskala, that could be enticing bait to bring in that vocal leader.
that would be dumb.

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05-08-2007, 08:20 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
that would be dumb.
I SMELL A THREE WAY...god i miss college...anyway...

tb: sj goalie (sj choice), umberger & NSH 1st

sj: richards (playoff proven leader), potulny & nitty (solid backup)

phl: marleau (#1 center) & sj 1st

flyers give up NSH 1ST, umberger, potulny & nitty

starting pt for a trade????

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05-08-2007, 08:24 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by jrosselli View Post
I SMELL A THREE WAY...god i miss college...anyway...

tb: sj goalie (sj choice), umberger & NSH 1st

sj: richards (playoff proven leader), potulny & nitty (solid backup)

phl: marleau (#1 center) & sj 1st

flyers give up NSH 1ST, umberger, potulny & nitty

starting pt for a trade????
don't think SJ can take on Richards when they're going to be paying Joe T in a couple of years as well.

SJ has a nice piece to trade at goalie, i don't see the need to move Marleau. If they feel they need to add grit and intangibles, there are other ways to get it than trading down with Marleau and bringing in someone else to replace him on the roster.

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05-08-2007, 10:03 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Roger's Pancreas View Post
LeCavalier isn't only a top five center in the game, he's in the top two. After facing Primeau in 2004, LeCavalier changed his game to include a more physical element. The end result was two excellent playoff runs, and one very good season. It finally looks like he put everything together. Could he have another relapse? Sure. But as it stands right now, LeCavalier is brilliant offensively, willing to backcheck, hardhitting, and willing to drop the gloves.He's been carrying Prospal around for years.Go for it. We all have our opinions, but I for one disagree.
I agree with both you and BCF16. On one hand, I agree with BCF16 in that Lecavlier has had only one really good season in the league, and has not been consistent over his career. I for one, dont judge someone on one season. Here is the problem with that.

Lets say last year we were asked to put together the top 5 centers in the league. I would bet that more often then not people would have Zetterberg (when he was playing center, and where he is most effective IMO) and Staal in there since they had big seasons last year. This year, most people would think what have you done for me lately and probably would not put either of them in the top 5, but would put Vinny in there.

If I was asked to put together a top 5 list, I would consider how they have played over their career, consistently, and all factors of play.

On the other hand, IMO, I think it is possible that Vinny is top 5 as you think (definitely not top 2), but if so, he is number 5.

I feel that the top 4, in no particular order are Thornton, Crosby, Richards, Spezza. If Zetterberg were playing center full time, he would round out my top 5, but he is playing wing these days.

That number 5 spot I think is arguable between Jokinen, Datsyuk, Briere, Marleau and Vinny.

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Old
05-09-2007, 05:14 AM
  #66
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Well, I'll take Marleau over Richards in a heartbeat.

He has a better overall game then Richards and to tell you the truth I would like to see him a FLyer uni over every other FA center we have mentioned in the last couple of months. The only problem is how much would we have to give up to get him.
Pitkanen for starters.

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Old
05-09-2007, 06:03 AM
  #67
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this is not a ONE YEAR FIX!!!!

Trading anything for an expensive UFA to be? Especially when you can just buy one?

I'd love to have marleau, but not going to trade anything more than a 2nd or a midlevel prospect like rosie for him when hes going to be a UFA next yr.

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05-09-2007, 07:53 AM
  #68
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this is not a ONE YEAR FIX!!!!

Trading anything for an expensive UFA to be? Especially when you can just buy one?

I'd love to have marleau, but not going to trade anything more than a 2nd or a midlevel prospect like rosie for him when hes going to be a UFA next yr.
you could get him and negotiate a deal for him next year over the season... i don't think it's going to happen, but you gotta give to get.

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05-09-2007, 08:29 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
you could get him and negotiate a deal for him next year over the season... i don't think it's going to happen, but you gotta give to get.

Actually, in truth you do NOT have to give to recieve, you just have to go out and spend the money on a UFA to get them for "free."

I think we can all agree that IF (and that's a big IF) we can fill our holes through FA's without having to give up any of our assets then that is our best option. However, in the off chance that we miss out on the UFA's that we REALLY need to help fix this team then we need to have a back-up plan. Maybe that "back-up" plan consists of making a trade before July 1st so we aren't left holding the bag after all the top UFA's are gone.

At some point you have to decide how much of your assets you would need to trade away to cover the holes left after FA for what is essentially just a bandaide patch over a gaping wound. One or 2 players here for just 2-3 years aren't going to make us a playoff team let alone a cup contender. The key to our long term success is the development of the youth we currently have. The team will go as their progression goes. They make up such a huge portion of our team that if they falter, the team will falter.

We won't be ready to make any cup run until the 09/10 season at the earliest if we are lucky. Eager, Upshall and Pitkanene will be 26, Carter, Richards, Potulny, Ruzicka and Coburn will be 25. THAT is the age when they SHOULD be ready to make their run. That's a solid core that will have the experience necessary. Before then these players will be too young and will ultimately hold us back from winning a cup. Any trades we make should be to have the player brought in to be here through the 10/11 season otherwise we are simply throuwing away valuable future assets to simply make us a little better now when there is no real hope of ultimate success. Is it our goal just to be above .500 for the next 3 years or would you rather take another year or 2 at sub .500 if it means we could raise the cup in 2010 or 2011???

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05-09-2007, 09:10 AM
  #70
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Sorry Jester, that last post wasn't really intended toward you (I know you were only trying to tell others that to get Marleau we'd have to give up fair market value) I was just saying that there is another way and that we should really keep in mind where we are going and be realistic about the future. I too want to avoid another season like this past one but not at the cost of the future when I probably have a better chance of winning the lottery then those changes would have of bringing us the cup.

The reality is that barring scrapping the entire team and starting over any real hope of winning a cup doesn't begin until October of 09. Be honest guys.

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05-09-2007, 09:23 AM
  #71
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Sorry Jester, that last post wasn't really intended toward you (I know you were only trying to tell others that to get Marleau we'd have to give up fair market value) I was just saying that there is another way and that we should really keep in mind where we are going and be realistic about the future. I too want to avoid another season like this past one but not at the cost of the future when I probably have a better chance of winning the lottery then those changes would have of bringing us the cup.

The reality is that barring scrapping the entire team and starting over any real hope of winning a cup doesn't begin until October of 09. Be honest guys.
depends on Richards and Carter... i think you're right that '09 is the most realistic, but i think '08 is going to be a very strong team if young kids prove themselves next year... it's a big season for Richards, Carter, and Pitkanen... add in Coburn as well.

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05-09-2007, 10:46 AM
  #72
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depends on Richards and Carter... i think you're right that '09 is the most realistic, but i think '08 is going to be a very strong team if young kids prove themselves next year... it's a big season for Richards, Carter, and Pitkanen... add in Coburn as well.
I agree, I think the 08 season will be critical. They should have imporved enough in the 07 season to where the team makes the playoffs. Even though they did get playoff experience last year they were rookies and I'm not certain if they got eveything out of it they could have. If they make a good reg season run in 08 they should get valuable playoff experience in the 09 playoffs. This should be HUGE for them in the 09 season and be the launching point for them to become the dominant force they can be.

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05-09-2007, 03:47 PM
  #73
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This team is more than an #1 center away from making the playoffs. It seems like a lot of people are counting on unproven young players to step up, which was the biggest mistake coming into this past year.

Honestly, I can see the Flyers trading away the #2 pick and additional future and then miss the playoffs again, with those acquired players lost to free agency.

Homer should just do what he can with UFAs and see how the season goes. It makes no sense for the worst team in the NHL to become buyers.

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05-09-2007, 04:23 PM
  #74
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This team is more than an #1 center away from making the playoffs. It seems like a lot of people are counting on unproven young players to step up, which was the biggest mistake coming into this past year.

Honestly, I can see the Flyers trading away the #2 pick and additional future and then miss the playoffs again, with those acquired players lost to free agency.

Homer should just do what he can with UFAs and see how the season goes. It makes no sense for the worst team in the NHL to become buyers.
Homer specifically said 26 year old center might be something they'd trade for... the fact that he said the age is VERY telling of the things they're thinking about. If they trade the no. 2 it's for a player who will be here for a number of years, not someone who will only be here for a year or two.

I agree that we're more than a no. 1 center from being a playoff team... however, i would qualify that with the fact that we have a few players who may make a big leap next season, which may put us in the playoffs if we have a true no. 1 at the top of the roster (Richards, Carter, and Pitkanen). I think a top-pairing defenseman is the most important signing towards stabilizing everything quickly... however, clearly both are needed.

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05-09-2007, 05:00 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Homer specifically said 26 year old center might be something they'd trade for... the fact that he said the age is VERY telling of the things they're thinking about. If they trade the no. 2 it's for a player who will be here for a number of years, not someone who will only be here for a year or two.

I agree that we're more than a no. 1 center from being a playoff team... however, i would qualify that with the fact that we have a few players who may make a big leap next season, which may put us in the playoffs if we have a true no. 1 at the top of the roster (Richards, Carter, and Pitkanen). I think a top-pairing defenseman is the most important signing towards stabilizing everything quickly... however, clearly both are needed.
That assumes the player acquired wants to resign for a long time. Unlike an UFA, the player isn't choosing to play for the team that gets him, so he can just leave and go anywhere he wants in a year or so. Especially with Richards... Flyers fans say that Homer needs to trade for him before his NTC kicks in, but if he isn't willing to waive it to play for the Flyers, it's likely he won't want to resign with them.

And again... it's possible that the young players will step up, but if this season is any indication, that shouldn't be a factor the equation (or, at least not a strong one). The Flyers aren't the Penguins... they don't have elite young players like Crosby and Fleury that allow them to make a big jump from bottom feeder to cup contender. Philly has a number of good young players with high potential but unclear futures.

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