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1st overall pick value

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Old
05-05-2007, 01:34 AM
  #1
Gardak
 
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1st overall pick value

Hello everyone,

First of all i would like to say i'm not especially a Hawks fan, but i came here out of curiosity to ask all of you a question : Would you trade your 1st overall pick, and if it's the case , what would you ask of another team in return?
(Generally speaking if you want, or from a Habs fan perspective if you want counter-offers )

P.s : don't flame , i was just wondering !

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Old
05-05-2007, 04:25 AM
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Zim
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I'd trade the pick but only to get one very good/great player and not for a package of picks and a mediocre player.

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Old
05-05-2007, 09:27 PM
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Tuukka Rask.

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Old
05-05-2007, 10:35 PM
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Tossing this out there...

Maxim Afinogenov + something... what would it take to get the top pick? A first and Afino? A slew of picks and Afino?

Does Chicago even have a need for another winger like that, or do they need help down the middle?

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Old
05-05-2007, 10:43 PM
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A first and Afino for our first is a move I'd be all over. Afino is a winger that's capable of creating his own offense, something he'll be forced to do on this joke of a team.

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Old
05-06-2007, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
A first and Afino for our first is a move I'd be all over. Afino is a winger that's capable of creating his own offense, something he'll be forced to do on this joke of a team.
He's a bargain at 3.3M cap hit per. We're going to have a late first round pick, but I really wouldn't mind taking our hometown kid in Pat Kane and swapping firsts while giving up Afinogenov.

Max is incredibly unique. He is something that teams must gameplan for, because he is a serious game breaker. He had a great year, and a subpar postseason until Game 5, but I wouldn't be too upset if we traded him to shed a bit of salary and replace from within.

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Old
05-06-2007, 03:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
A first and Afino for our first is a move I'd be all over. Afino is a winger that's capable of creating his own offense, something he'll be forced to do on this joke of a team.
You could probably squeeze out another young player from the Sabres... Stafford or Zagrapan, perhaps?

Afino + Stafford/Zapragan + 1st round pick + 2nd round pick (#1 pick in that round via Philadelphia from the Martin Biron trade)

for

#1 overall pick + prospect (Brouwer/St. Pierre, maybe?)

The Sabres are ridiculously deep and have a few players in the farm system ready to step in... I think they'd jump all over a deal like this because it'd allow them to draft a hometown stud in Patrick Kane.

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Old
05-06-2007, 09:17 AM
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How about Max and a signed Briere? We don't have a first this year, we traded it.

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Old
05-06-2007, 11:31 AM
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I seriously doubt Briere would sign and then be alright with you guys dealing him to Chicago.

And getting Afino plus a young NHL ready potential top six forward would be awesome, particularly Stafford. I love his game, and they'd instantly make our top six much better.

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Old
05-06-2007, 06:17 PM
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How about we just sign Briere ourselves.

While I am reluctant to trade the first overall pick I have to admit a proposal starting with Stafford and a first coming back would definitely perk my interest!

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Old
05-06-2007, 07:16 PM
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Sabres don't have a first. No first. None.

And we will have a chance to sign our FA's before anyone else. We could do what Lamorillo did and go above the cap and just trade players away to get under the cap by the time the season starts. Briere and Afino would give you guys 2 players in their prime that can combine for 150pts a season, and they'd be signed for a few more seasons. More than you'd get out of that first, at least in the short term.

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Old
05-06-2007, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chi777 View Post
Sabres don't have a first. No first. None.
Alright, then just keep it as the Flyers 2nd rounder that you acquired in the Biron deal... it's basically a first round pick, anyway. Add in a future first rounder and another prospect.

Afino + Stafford/Zagrapan + prospect + 2008 first + 2007 second (PHI)

How's that?

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Old
05-06-2007, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chi777 View Post
Sabres don't have a first. No first. None.

And we will have a chance to sign our FA's before anyone else. We could do what Lamorillo did and go above the cap and just trade players away to get under the cap by the time the season starts. Briere and Afino would give you guys 2 players in their prime that can combine for 150pts a season, and they'd be signed for a few more seasons. More than you'd get out of that first, at least in the short term.
But WHY would Briere sign with you if you plan on moving him a few weeks later? He and the fanbase would feel betrayed. The difference with the Devils is that the guys they signed to go over the cap, they kept, and moved other players to get the team down under the cap.

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Old
05-06-2007, 08:15 PM
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To Buf:
1st Overall
A prospect / Vrbata

To Chi:
Rights to Vanek
Tim Connolly

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Old
05-06-2007, 08:53 PM
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I'd love it, but Buffalo would be moronic to accept.

Vanek - Connolly - Havlat

The stickhandling on that line would be otherworldly.

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Old
05-06-2007, 09:03 PM
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Odontya
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Not necessarily...
Vanek might pull a Havlat this offseason. Connolly hasn't shown much since coming back from his concussion. If Vanek signs for around 5 mil then that also frees up ~8 mil for them for keeping both Briere and Drury.
The prospect wouldn't be Toews but a Bolland/Skille is fine. Vrbata or Williams should be a throw in to open up roster space.
But still there's about a 0% chance of it happening, well... except in my dreams...

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Old
05-06-2007, 09:14 PM
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this is not a good draft year--the guy going first this year might have ended up going tenth overall in other years. The top draft pick this year is projected to be a second line player.

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Old
05-06-2007, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chi777 View Post
Sabres don't have a first. No first. None.

And we will have a chance to sign our FA's before anyone else. We could do what Lamorillo did and go above the cap and just trade players away to get under the cap by the time the season starts. Briere and Afino would give you guys 2 players in their prime that can combine for 150pts a season, and they'd be signed for a few more seasons. More than you'd get out of that first, at least in the short term.
Personally I can't see Buffalo signing Briere before free agency begins, which happens after the draft. Afterall why would he throw away the best bargaining position of his life? The only way it does happen is if they offer him a max deal, which would make him extremely overpaid. In that case the Hawks won't want him and we could then focus our attention on Drury!

As far as Afinogenov goes, he can be extremely exciting, but personally I think he dances on the perimeter and dangles with the puck too much. I think he is about as good as he going to get, which makes him at best a low level second line player or high level third line player. The Hawks are looking to hit a homerun with the first pick, not a long loud out.

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Old
05-06-2007, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lil devil View Post
this is not a good draft year--the guy going first this year might have ended up going tenth overall in other years. The top draft pick this year is projected to be a second line player.
Just no.

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Old
05-06-2007, 10:25 PM
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Afino, a player who has scored 73 points and 61 points (while playing 77 and 56 games respectively) is a weak second liner or a good third liner? He scored at over a PPG! He'd instantly become the second best forward on our team.

Getting a young, talented great second line/decent first line talent locked up for the next few years for a fairly cheap price in addition to another talented young forward would be huge to this team becoming respectable much sooner then later.

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Old
05-06-2007, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
Afino, a player who has scored 73 points and 61 points (while playing 77 and 56 games respectively) is a weak second liner or a good third liner? He scored at over a PPG! He'd instantly become the second best forward on our team.

Getting a young, talented great second line/decent first line talent locked up for the next few years for a fairly cheap price in addition to another talented young forward would be huge to this team becoming respectable much sooner then later.
And like I mentioned above, that kind of PPG production is a steal at a 3.3M/per Cap Hit.

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Old
05-06-2007, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by jBuddy View Post
And like I mentioned above, that kind of PPG production is a steal at a 3.3M/per Cap Hit.
Is Max the kind of player you could see stepping up to the added responsibility of being a go to guy in Chicago, moreso than he would be in Buffalo?

Simply put, Buffalo obviously has more scoring quality and depth than the Hawks and being one of the main offensive weapons would demand Max to be a consistent scorer. These same questions surrounded Havlat when he first came in here, and Vrbata also, but to a lesser extent. Vrbata couldn't hack it without training wheels on while Havlat stepped into the role pretty smoothly.

If Afinogenov could step into the Hawks lineup, be depended upon as being one of the main offensive threats, and thrive in that role much like Havlat did to start the season, I'd definitely consider a trade involving the first pick.

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Old
05-07-2007, 12:09 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Gardebut30 View Post
Is Max the kind of player you could see stepping up to the added responsibility of being a go to guy in Chicago, moreso than he would be in Buffalo?

Simply put, Buffalo obviously has more scoring quality and depth than the Hawks and being one of the main offensive weapons would demand Max to be a consistent scorer. These same questions surrounded Havlat when he first came in here, and Vrbata also, but to a lesser extent. Vrbata couldn't hack it without training wheels on while Havlat stepped into the role pretty smoothly.

If Afinogenov could step into the Hawks lineup, be depended upon as being one of the main offensive threats, and thrive in that role much like Havlat did to start the season, I'd definitely consider a trade involving the first pick.
Interesting thoughts. Personally, I think Max could do fine in a situation with a lot of responsibility. Also, it is my thought that Max played the best "mental" hockey of his career when he was looked upon to provide the majority of the offense alongside Satan. Though his numbers weren't impressive, I simply attribute that to the "new NHL".

Basically, part of me thinks he'd thrive in Chi-town for a few reasons:

A) like we said, he could potentially welcome the workload with open arms. Ruff has groomed his defensive responsibilities, and he can hold his own.

B) A trade out of Buffalo would likely put a decent-sized chip on Afino's shoulder, being that he deems himself a large part of the team's current success (rightfully so)

C) Kind of dumb and unsubstantiated, but I think he'd stand out like a sore thumb (in a good way) in your division. The two top teams are speedy, fast teams in NAS and DET, and Max loves to counterpunch. And the CBJ/STL teams are also a bit far from being top level


All in all, I think it's a good proposal to explore. Buffalo seems to be pimping Kane a lot, and it'd be cool to have the hometown kid. I think that the people of Chicago would be ... not "easy" on Max per se, but a lot more tolerable of some of his little mistakes in exchange for the excitement and offense he brings overall.

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Old
05-07-2007, 02:45 AM
  #24
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i dont think buffalo will trade vanek or connoly

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Old
05-07-2007, 11:41 AM
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I would hate to trade the #1 pick away, especially knowing that it should be Pat Kane, but as a Hawks fan you have to think of what can help us the most RIGHT NOW! We need to make the playoffs next year, heck the NHL needs this big market team to make the playoffs.

The only deal that I would be willing to do with Buffalo is

to Buff
#1 overall pick, Vrabata, Bolland, and Barker (who hasnt lived up to his hype IMO)

to Chi
Vanek, Connolly, Stafford, 2nd and 3rd round picks in 07 draft.

I dont think thats to far stretched since Barker is still touted very highly by many, and Buff would love to add him with a few aging d-men that they have. Buff gets the cap space to sign Briere and Drury, and gives more ice time to Gaustad, Pominville, Roy, etc...
you know that Vrabata will be a 30 goal scorer once we trade him, thats going to be a given.

Chi would get exactly what it needed, talent for this coming season without depleting our farm system. Connolly has looked amazing after missing the better part of 2 seasons, he is a legit #1 center next year if healthy. And Vanek with Havlat...nuff said.

Vanek, Connolly, Havlat
Stafford, Handzus, Ruutu
Skille, Hamilton, Bourque
Lapointe, Toews, Sharp

Davis and Blunden spares

Just MO, I wouldnt trade Pat Kane away, but if this offer came up, I would seriously consider it. Those 4 lines would be very hard to beat.

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