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All-Time Draft #7, Part IV

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Old
05-22-2007, 10:20 AM
  #876
MXD
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Well... A Brodeur/Roy matchup to begin the playoffs

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05-22-2007, 10:26 AM
  #877
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frightened Inmate #2 View Post
The biggest shock though from my original standpoint was the Falcons being first, I might be missing something past the big two but in terms of depth I just don't see it.... especially if Larry Murphy is playing a prominant role on defense.
Some love and some really hate Murphy. I don't considered him as bad as you seem to point out, but as I stated before, the biggest mistake I've made in this draft was picking Larry Murphy instead of Butch Bouchard. I think I will get burned at one point in the playoff because of that.

However, I think I have an excellent depth, especially on offense. Perhaps reading some bit on Tommy Phillips, Dan Bain and Jack Darragh would convince you on how good they were and how they form a good 3rd-4th line.

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05-22-2007, 10:32 AM
  #878
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The Brodeur/Roy matchup will be cool. Also Doug Harvey vs. Ray Bourque in Barrie/Aurora is an interesting scenario.

Re: Trail vs. Winnipeg: I can imagine Bernie Geoffrion looking across the ice, seeing Tallon and Jovanovski on the other teams blueline, and just licking his chops.

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05-22-2007, 10:32 AM
  #879
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Don't get me wrong I like Larry Murphy just not in the first pairing like Larry Murphy - when you consider defensive coverage he is marginally better than a Phil Housley in my opinion (although i did see a lot of his later years). As a #3/4 powerplay specalist I think he is great in an all time draft - on the first pairing things could get scaryq

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05-22-2007, 10:36 AM
  #880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frightened Inmate #2 View Post
Don't get me wrong I like Larry Murphy just not in the first pairing like Larry Murphy - when you consider defensive coverage he is marginally better than a Phil Housley in my opinion (although i did see a lot of his later years). As a #3/4 powerplay specalist I think he is great in an all time draft - on the first pairing things could get scaryq
I think his defensive coverage was very good actually. He do however lost a step on his later years with the Wings. Moreover, I don't considered that 56 defenseman would of been more suited on a first line role than Larry Murphy. I don't considered having a top notch first pairing defenseman, but a competent one on both end of the ice.

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05-22-2007, 10:36 AM
  #881
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frightened Inmate #2 View Post
Don't get me wrong I like Larry Murphy just not in the first pairing like Larry Murphy - when you consider defensive coverage he is marginally better than a Phil Housley in my opinion (although i did see a lot of his later years). As a #3/4 powerplay specalist I think he is great in an all time draft - on the first pairing things could get scary
He was good in Detroit, but, I do agree. He's a 2nd pairing PP guy.

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05-22-2007, 10:40 AM
  #882
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
Some love and some really hate Murphy. I don't considered him as bad as you seem to point out, but as I stated before, the biggest mistake I've made in this draft was picking Larry Murphy instead of Butch Bouchard. I think I will get burned at one point in the playoff because of that.

However, I think I have an excellent depth, especially on offense. Perhaps reading some bit on Tommy Phillips, Dan Bain and Jack Darragh would convince you on how good they were and how they form a good 3rd-4th line.
My views on players from pre-1929 are very well known and you do lose some points from me based on that alone, how someone can argue that a sport in it's infancy, with fewer athletes performing in it, with different rules that we are used to today (which we are using as the benchmark if history is any precident). If I started a game today and I was the best player in it in all the world, would my greatness translate into greatness in 100 years time if the game became very popular amongst millions of people? Personally I have my doubts. You can feel free to select the Dan Bain type players in the draft - and who knows you could be right but I will always have those nagging doubts in my mind.

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05-22-2007, 10:41 AM
  #883
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Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
He was good in Detroit, but, I do agree. He's a 2nd pairing PP guy.
In a perfect world he would of been on my 2nd wave of powerplay. He will share time with Flash Hollett and at a lesser point with Hod Stuart.

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05-22-2007, 10:46 AM
  #884
Nalyd Psycho
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In a perfect world he would of been on my 2nd wave of powerplay. He will share time with Flash Hollett and at a lesser point with Hod Stuart.
I meant 2nd d-pairing/1st pp unit.

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05-22-2007, 10:49 AM
  #885
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Oh yea I totally forgot about that. You were actually pointing the effectiveness of Benedict a couple of week ago. I think you have to compared the quality of a player to the ERA he played in. Saying that a player would be less effective in this draft because the rules changed since his time he played is IMO, the same thnig as saying that goaltenders like Plante and Sawchuk would be less effective in this draft becasue the rules changed since the time he played. Does Glenn Hall would have been as athletic with todays big equipment on? I don't know so I will second guess his selection.

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05-22-2007, 10:51 AM
  #886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
I meant 2nd d-pairing/1st pp unit.
In a perfect world: 2nd pairing/2nd PP
In a great world: 2nd pairing/1st PP
In a realistic world with 28 teams taking players in the same pool as you: 1st pairing/1st pp.


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05-22-2007, 10:52 AM
  #887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reckoning View Post
Toronto's a little too low here.
People have been hard on LL's teams since the very first draft. Unless they missed seeing Connell was backing up Vernon, I just don't see how you can put that team last, it has everything...they were 2nd in my rankings behind the strong Canadiens team.

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Old
05-22-2007, 10:56 AM
  #888
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Originally Posted by Spitfire11 View Post
People have been hard on LL's teams since the very first draft. Unless they missed seeing Connell was backing up Vernon, I just don't see how you can put that team last, it has everything...they were 2nd in my rankings behind the strong Canadiens team.
Ovechkin on the second line kills me. A BIG turn off on a well structured team. However I do agree they shouldn't be last in the division.

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05-22-2007, 10:58 AM
  #889
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
Oh yea I totally forgot about that. You were actually pointing the effectiveness of Benedict a couple of week ago. I think you have to compared the quality of a player to the ERA he played in. Saying that a player would be less effective in this draft because the rules changed since his time he played is IMO, the same thnig as saying that goaltenders like Plante and Sawchuk would be less effective in this draft becasue the rules changed since the time he played. Does Glenn Hall would have been as athletic with todays big equipment on? I don't know so I will second guess his selection.
This isn't one of the minor changes in the rules of the game, such as a goaltender not being able to play the net out outside of the trapezoid, it was a major change to the rules in 1929 which if you ask pretty much anyone who follows the history of hockey lead to the game being a much faster game which we now watch. Without the forward pass I can't see the game being closer to rugby on ice than hockey, the fundamentals of the sport changed significantly.

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Old
05-22-2007, 11:00 AM
  #890
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
The biggest surprise to me is the Red Wings last in their division...
Guess I pissed a lot of people off this draft...

well when you see the other teams have Hasek, or Sawchuk, or Howe/Lemieux it's hard to rank them last and my team has no one that stands out. Ah well, I built my team for the playoffs and think we match up well against St.Louis

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05-22-2007, 11:07 AM
  #891
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Originally Posted by Spitfire11 View Post
Guess I pissed a lot of people off this draft...

well when you see the other teams have Hasek, or Sawchuk, or Howe/Lemieux it's hard to rank them last and my team has no one that stands out. Ah well, I built my team for the playoffs and think we match up well against St.Louis
Detroit finishing last is just as big as shock as the Leafs in my opinion. Those were the two biggest surprises that stood out for me at first glance. No team with Teeder on it is a last place team. I think personally I had Detroit ranked at #2 and Toronto at #3

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05-22-2007, 11:08 AM
  #892
EagleBelfour
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frightened Inmate #2 View Post
This isn't one of the minor changes in the rules of the game, such as a goaltender not being able to play the net out outside of the trapezoid, it was a major change to the rules in 1929 which if you ask pretty much anyone who follows the history of hockey lead to the game being a much faster game which we now watch. Without the forward pass I can't see the game being closer to rugby on ice than hockey, the fundamentals of the sport changed significantly.
I understand the that rules was more important than any rules implanted afterwards, but great athletes are able to adapt theirselves and their play. We're not talking about marginal players from the 1900's, we're talking about players who were the best of the best. Moreover, most of them were great in multiple other sports (Bain was named canadian athlete of the 1850-1900 era). Believing that Phillips or Darragh uncanning abilities to score goals or Dan Bain physical edge would be affected by any rules that isn't about playing with shoes or ringuette stick is absurd in my opinion. They arn't like any of us; they're special players and special athlete.

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05-22-2007, 11:10 AM
  #893
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The Oilers get to play the role of giant slayer in the first round yet once again......


Bobby Orr is going down, which knee is the bad one?

Or should I say which knee is the worst one...........

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Old
05-22-2007, 11:13 AM
  #894
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Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
The Oilers get to play the role of giant slayer in the first round yet once again......


Bobby Orr is going down, which knee is the bad one?

Or should I say which knee is the worst one...........
Oh great, I love that. That's why I placed you 2nd on your division.

Also, the disadvantage of having a gritty team (taking penalties) will be largely decreased because it's well known that refs are letting players play in playoffs!

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05-22-2007, 11:15 AM
  #895
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I'll take second place in the division. Thanks for the votes, gents. Naturally, we're expecting to beat Winnipeg, since we always expect to win. (I'd be selling my team short if I didn't expect to win).

We built this team to win in the playoffs. We're not about being cute or fancy. We're about winning. I think I have a better team than Nanaimo, but we think we'll show that we're the better team once the real hockey starts. 68 rings can't be wrong.

If we could get first round series threads up and running today, that would be great. I'll post a Trail/Winnipeg series thread later tonight, if nobody does it this afternoon. If we could have three or four days for discussion and voting for each series, that would be ideal.

Here's a proposed timeline for each series:

Round 1: May 22 to 25
Round 2 (division semi-finals): May 26 to 29
Round 3 (division finals): May 30 to June 2
Round 4 (conference finals): June 3 to 6
Round 5 (League final): June 7 to 11

One thing that hasn't been resolved: do we re-seed teams after each playoff round, based on regular season order of finish (like the NHL does) or do we have a rigid bracket format (like the NBA and NCAA). I say use the re-seeding format, as it doesn't punish top teams in case of upsets.

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05-22-2007, 11:17 AM
  #896
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
The Oilers get to play the role of giant slayer in the first round yet once again......


Bobby Orr is going down, which knee is the bad one?

Or should I say which knee is the worst one...........
Clarke has his choice of Russian ankles to go after in round 1.

I think we may see a few of these matchups as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOW0AhC7T1k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qaua...elated&search=

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Old
05-22-2007, 11:20 AM
  #897
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Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan View Post
Clarke has his choice of Russian ankles to go after in round 1.

I think we may see a few of these matchups as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOW0AhC7T1k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qaua...elated&search=
But Clarke was used to have Big Behn on his side, not against him
... And didn't realized you had Plett on your team to begin with... Better pair him with Clarke
As for choices, well, Mikhailov as a nice choice of canadians tibias to kick


Last edited by MXD: 05-22-2007 at 11:30 AM.
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Old
05-22-2007, 11:22 AM
  #898
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But Clarke was used to have Big Behn on his side, not against him
Shanahan riding shotgun ..... Willi Plett can mix it up with the best of them as well.

Behn had a big time left hand, but Behn was also prone to making the big tunrover, high risk, high reward. Clarke will steal a few of those passes and they'll be deposited in the net.

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05-22-2007, 11:25 AM
  #899
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Originally Posted by Frightened Inmate #2 View Post
To comment on my own division I am shocked not at how low my placement was but rather at how high the Bears were, I see a great first line (Selanne's stock is somewhat boosted though due to his recent playoff performance) and a pretty good second line, but Joe Mullen on the third line is where the team lost me, classy players are great, just not on the third and fourth lines. Top to bottom I don't see a heck of a lot of grit in the team. Few players you could throw out there in the last few minutes of a game or to kill a penalty, looking at your team I don't have a clue who would be on the ice to kill any of the penalties from a forward perspective...

Primeau/Nieuwendyk/Courtnall/Marshell - out of your four best defensive forwards - only Marshell would I really want out there killing a penalty.
The one thing that put Siberia ahead (for me at least) was goaltending. Durnan was an absolutely dominant regular season goaltender, and compared to the others in the division, it gave pnep a big advantage.

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05-22-2007, 11:25 AM
  #900
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Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan View Post
Shanahan riding shotgun ..... Willi Plett can mix it up with the best of them as well.

Behn had a big time left hand, but Behn was also prone to making the big tunrover, high risk, high reward. Clarke will steal a few of those passes and they'll be deposited in the net.
I would love to see the trios matchup on this serie. If Flyers 3rd line is playing against Miami first line ... I could see problem for the Flyers.

Two offensive mind team with an awesome goaltender, gonna be a good one.

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