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Old
05-08-2007, 01:49 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Lou has 3 rings, he might know a thing or two about winning.
The drafting of that Marty Brodeur guy might have something to do with winning compared to his coaching abilities.
Its easy to coach a team with Brodeur on your team, that being said Lou is going to get questioned all summer about firing Julien when(and I think thats the big issue here right?) he did. I am in the group of people that thinks he made a mistake.

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05-08-2007, 01:51 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Even Martin Brodeur didn't win those Cups by himself. Before winning in 2000, the Devils were thought of as the Braves as hockey
and there's nothing wrong with that, what the Braves have done is nothing short of amazing... that being said, when, as a GM, you never have to worry about the most important position... life is much simpler.

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Originally Posted by ClarkeIsGoneDotCom View Post
The drafting of that Marty Brodeur guy might have something to do with winning compared to his coaching abilities.
Its easy to coach a team with Brodeur on your team, that being said Lou is going to get questioned all summer about firing Julien when(and I think thats the big issue here right?) he did. I am in the group of people that thinks he made a mistake.
firing Julien may, or may not have been a good decision... we'll never know, which is my real problem with it. if there were issues there they could have made a decision after the season was over and not show the guy up like that... i think it's "wrong" on that level, which has nothing to do with what happened, or didn't happen on the ice. i just don't think Julien was treated fairly by Lou and then Lou refused to give any sort of justification for why he made the decision.

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05-08-2007, 02:10 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
100 point season begs to differ.

the mystique around Lou is friggin absurd... he made a mistake! the team was a 100 point team and was turning it around when he got fired... Lou gets a 100 point winner through the 1st round and goes out quick and quiet in the next round and he made the right call? please.

Julien deserved to finish out the season.
Standing in Lou's defense is the LAST thing I would ever do. But here is my take on things:

Who was behind the bench during the playoffs had nothing to do w/ Jersey's demise. They drew Ottawa in the second round who is on an EFFIN rampage right now. There should be none of this "woulda, coulda, shoulda" talk right now. IMO whether it was Julien or Lou behind the bench the Debbies had lost that series before it even began.

Can't wait for the rematch of Buffalo and Ottawa in the Conf. Finals.

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05-08-2007, 02:16 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan808 View Post
Standing in Lou's defense is the LAST thing I would ever do. But here is my take on things:

Who was behind the bench during the playoffs had nothing to do w/ Jersey's demise. They drew Ottawa in the second round who is on an EFFIN rampage right now. There should be none of this "woulda, coulda, shoulda" talk right now. IMO whether it was Julien or Lou behind the bench the Debbies had lost that series before it even began.

Can't wait for the rematch of Buffalo and Ottawa in the Conf. Finals.
that's fine, and i agree... my problem is that the only way to justify the decision was for that team to do better than they would have done with Julien back there... they might have, we'll just never know.

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05-08-2007, 02:43 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
and there's nothing wrong with that, what the Braves have done is nothing short of amazing... that being said, when, as a GM, you never have to worry about the most important position... life is much simpler.



firing Julien may, or may not have been a good decision... we'll never know, which is my real problem with it. if there were issues there they could have made a decision after the season was over and not show the guy up like that... i think it's "wrong" on that level, which has nothing to do with what happened, or didn't happen on the ice. i just don't think Julien was treated fairly by Lou and then Lou refused to give any sort of justification for why he made the decision.
I will never question Lou's abilities to draft, to manipulate the current system in place as far as the salary cap goes. I just dont think the man is a very good head coach, The guy has a enormous ego and it got the best of him this season. IMO.

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05-08-2007, 03:07 PM
  #81
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You can't discount the fact that they had an awsome defensive core with Neidermayer and Stevens, a trapping system and some decent offensive players as well. Having Brodure doesn't hurt, but the one thing Canucks have told us this year is that you can't win with a goalie alone.

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05-08-2007, 03:19 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkeIsGoneDotCom View Post
The drafting of that Marty Brodeur guy might have something to do with winning compared to his coaching abilities.
Its easy to coach a team with Brodeur on your team, that being said Lou is going to get questioned all summer about firing Julien when(and I think thats the big issue here right?) he did. I am in the group of people that thinks he made a mistake.
I'm sure he will, but I wonder by whom. If you think the press up here gives a hoot about the Devils, you are mistaken. Let me give you a brief version of the sports news up here this weekend, "1-Yankees re-sign Clemens (10,000 times over and over and over again), 2-The Rangers lost to Buffalo (lots of clips of the last two goals and the players saluting the crowd and vice versa), 3-The Nets are playing the Cavaliers, 4-Kentucky Derby, 5-Tiger Woods, 6-NASCAR, 7-......oh, and by the way, the Devils lost to Ottawa (maybe one clip)." I seriously cannot stress enough how little people/the media up here care about the Devils and their trials and tribulations.

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05-08-2007, 03:56 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan View Post
While I don't think it will have a huge effect, to say that the revolving turnstile in north jersey behind the bench won't matter at all is a bit naive as well.
This is how I look at it, if a potential coach is concerned about his job safety before he is hired, I really don't care to have him as our coach.

That's why it doesn't concern me.

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05-08-2007, 04:01 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
when you get the best goaltender in the history of the league out of the draft... you got lucky. unless you really need me to do a statistical breakdown of expected value from draft choices.

the draft is almost entirely about luck... it's best guesses... which is why you have guys like Zetterberg going in the 7th friggin round... and a couple of undrafted guys on your club who are big time contributors.

maybe you don't like the element of chance in the nature of the sport, but it's a simple fact of life (in most things in life for that matter). you're too busy defending Lou to the teeth (which is fine), i'm just being objective about it.

and yes, i think there SHOULD be a protocol to how an employer treats an employee and (assuming you're an employee, employer, or have been one of the other) i would imagine you feel exactly the same way in relation to yourself.
The fact that you think Lou gets lucky with his draft choices and then sit there and tell me your objective is quite amusing.

I'll tell you what, find me one draft expert who will back up your claim that drafting is based mostly on luck, and we'll talk further about this.

I'm not trying to bust your chops, but it really is a ridiculous opinion you are making, seriously.

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05-08-2007, 04:02 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Lou is God View Post
This is how I look at it, if a potential coach is concerned about his job safety before he is hired, I really don't care to have him as our coach.

That's why it doesn't concern me.
If you were offered the folllowing three jobs with equal contract offers, which would you choose and why ???

New Jersey
Detroit
San Jose
Buffalo
Ottawa

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05-08-2007, 04:05 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
that's fine... it's the next coach you might have a problem in signing. if you honestly think coaches don't think they can mold a winner anywhere -- especially with the salary cap -- you're kidding yourself. the Devs are an appealing job with Brodeur back there, but the world will flatten in the NHL and every job will be relatively equal assuming management is competent... and Lou hasn't exactly handled the salary cap era with brilliance.
Just curious, how long are we going to hold the M&M signings over Lou's head?

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05-08-2007, 04:06 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan View Post
If you were offered the folllowing three jobs with equal contract offers, which would you choose and why ???

New Jersey
Detroit
San Jose
Buffalo
Ottawa
How many coaches have ever been offered three jobs with equal contract offers?

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05-08-2007, 04:08 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Lou is God View Post
Just curious, how long are we going to hold the M&M signings over Lou's head?
history has a long memory... and i'm not sure 2 years is exactly stretching it out too far. given we have two offseasons to observe thus far.

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05-08-2007, 04:09 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Lou is God View Post
How many coaches have ever been offered three jobs with equal contract offers?
if you're a prime candidate and you know you're going to be on clubs radar, say Sutter... you let the NJ offer pass and take the deal that will come that doesn't deal with all the BS from Lou.

if you're a top candidate, you're going to get offers.

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05-08-2007, 04:11 PM
  #90
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history has a long memory... and i'm not sure 2 years is exactly stretching it out too far. given we have two offseasons to observe thus far.
But yet your more than willing to ignore how he has the ability to keep his core players at a discount which he has done consistently? Which he has done more recently and after the M&M signings, which by the way are off the books as we speak.

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05-08-2007, 04:13 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
if you're a prime candidate and you know you're going to be on clubs radar, say Sutter... you let the NJ offer pass and take the deal that will come that doesn't deal with all the BS from Lou.

if you're a top candidate, you're going to get offers.
Don't worry, NJ will get one of the best coaches in the NHL.
coughPatBurnscough

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05-08-2007, 04:15 PM
  #92
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This whole discussion is getting fairly pointless. Bottomline: Julien hiring/firing: good or bad? We're really never going to be able to give a good answer to that

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05-08-2007, 04:15 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Lou is God View Post
But yet your more than willing to ignore how he has the ability to keep his core players at a discount which he has done consistently? Which he has done more recently and after the M&M signings, which by the way are off the books as we speak.
no, i'm not. i also happen to think the NHL set a horrible precedent with the Mogilny decision, but that's beside the point.

Lou is a good GM, but not a genius... and the M&M signings prove that.

Why are you always on the FLYER board defending Lou to me, btw?

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05-08-2007, 04:15 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
if you're a prime candidate and you know you're going to be on clubs radar, say Sutter... you let the NJ offer pass and take the deal that will come that doesn't deal with all the BS from Lou.

if you're a top candidate, you're going to get offers.
What BS? Just because you don't like how Lou runs things doesn't necessarily mean other coaches do, if you look at the list of coaches Lou has fired many have comeback to work in the organization, Ftorek, Robinson and Cunniff, if dealing with Lou is so bad, why do they keep coming back?

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05-08-2007, 04:16 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Rochester22 View Post
Don't worry, NJ will get one of the best coaches in the NHL.
coughPatBurnscough
it's not a stressful aspect of my existence, i just think it's an interesting aspect of the decision to fire a coach that no one can make a rational argument against with regard to the performance of the team he was coaching.

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05-08-2007, 04:18 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Lou is God View Post
What BS? Just because you don't like how Lou runs things doesn't necessarily mean other coaches do, if you look at the list of coaches Lou has fired many have comeback to work in the organization, Ftorek, Robinson and Cunniff, if dealing with Lou is so bad, why do they keep coming back?
because they're part of the Devil family? i don't know Cunniff's growth curve, but obviously Robinson and Ftorek come from within... easier to get jobs with who you know. notice all the former Flyers working for the Flyer management positions.

this was a particularly bad example of dealing with a coach, IMO as well.

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05-08-2007, 04:23 PM
  #97
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no, i'm not. i also happen to think the NHL set a horrible precedent with the Mogilny decision, but that's beside the point.

Lou is a good GM, but not a genius... and the M&M signings prove that.
First off, no one is making that claim, and second, lets say for arguments sake we were to say that, I fail to see how one mistake should take away that much credit like you want to, all the great ones in all aspects of life make mistakes, if were to hold up your high standards of makes people great, geniuses or what have you, there would be none.

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Why are you always on the FLYER board defending Lou to me, btw?

Jester, all HF members have the right to participate in any forum they choose, we live by that here, is that ok with you?

Also, you started this discussion with me, not me with you.

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05-08-2007, 04:27 PM
  #98
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because they're part of the Devil family? i don't know Cunniff's growth curve, but obviously Robinson and Ftorek come from within... easier to get jobs with who you know. notice all the former Flyers working for the Flyer management positions.

this was a particularly bad example of dealing with a coach, IMO as well.
Both Robinson and Ftorek first head coaching jobs where both with the Kings, and after that they both hired and fired by Lou and they both returned.

So they didn't come from within.

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05-08-2007, 04:29 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Lou is God View Post
Both Robinson and Ftorek first head coaching jobs where both with the Kings, and after that they both hired and fired by Lou and they both returned.

So they didn't come from within.
Ftorek was with Albany, no?

and Robinson was an assistant with Lemaire, no?

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05-08-2007, 04:33 PM
  #100
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Jester, all HF members have the right to participate in any forum they choose, we live by that here, is that ok with you?

Also, you started this discussion with me, not me with you.
the coverage of Lou in the national media is ridiculously one-sided in his favor... the deference to him is amazing. if you don't see that, fine. however, it's there.

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