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Old
05-08-2007, 08:59 AM
  #51
clmetsfan
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Originally Posted by sstranged View Post
Malik and Poti before him don't seem to do that. They lackadaisically skate around the ice more often then not, picking their spots, using their stick rather than their bodies and make bad decisions that result in goals. Both have glimmers of hope offensively but frankly, are not Brian Leetch. Both make some decent passes but aren't Sergei Zubov. So unless they are going to punish people for being in our zone, aren't a lock-down player or aren't going to score 10, 15 goals and 40+ points then what use are they?
I think you're confusing laziness with a lack of athleticism. Malik is what, 6'6"? He's not the best coordinated guy in the world, so he looks kind of awkward when he skates, but that doesn't mean that the effort isn't there.

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05-08-2007, 09:00 AM
  #52
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sorry clmetsfan - cullen was already past the dman and "pitifully" gave up the puck to Miller . That was a sad offensive move! But it proves my point - a forward doesn't score and there are dozen of extenuating reasons why he didn't. A dman makes a mistake and the guy is tarred and feathered.

Cullen should have shot and scored and we would not be here having mental masturbation because we would have been talking about game 7!

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05-08-2007, 09:07 AM
  #53
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sorry clmetsfan - cullen was already past the dman and "pitifully" gave up the puck to Miller . That was a sad offensive move! But it proves my point - a forward doesn't score and there are dozen of extenuating reasons why he didn't. A dman makes a mistake and the guy is tarred and feathered.

Cullen should have shot and scored and we would not be here having mental masturbation because we would have been talking about game 7!

Not even close but whatever.

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05-08-2007, 10:23 AM
  #54
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Malik was on for 3 goals against in 10 games this PO's.

He played 40 minutes and 38 seconds on the PK, or for more then 20 whole penaltys, and was on for one goal against.

He played 170 minutes, just short of 3 whole games, of 5 on 5 and was on for 2 goals against.

This in the PO's against first a team with Hossa and Kovalchuk who he constantly went up against, and then against the best offensive team in the league. A D who can't hold is own will get owned by great players in this league. Malik is never owned. I would bet everything I own that the coach behind the bench on the other team rather would like to see us put Toots or Mara out there then Malik late in a game.

He made one bad pass, that was close to connecting with Nyls. Then was natrually shaky for a while when getting booed in the PO's.

People looked for someone to boo gooing into last season, Weekes heard it before the puck was dropped in the first game. Can it be more obvious? Malik got it right away too.

Could Malik have won MSG over? Defenitly. Though, and this is the problem, he is not a great player, and therefor gets threated like he is the worst D in the league. Or worst D in the league the last 2 decades. People even laid of Poti for stretches.

The fact that Malik is getting booed, quite frankly, only is proof of that there is allot of people in the MSG that don't know much about the game. Why even bother to bring up hits when he is playing very good defensive hockey? Isn't hits a tool to play defense? That Lydman on Buffalo's top pairing got beaten more times clean against us then Malik have been since December.

For a player Malik is in the worst possible situation, he will forever remember these years as a living hell. Its pretty bad, he is only 31 y/o. I actually think he have handled the puck better this season then last, and besides for some reason struggling in the start, have played really well lately. With some confidence he could have been a player who for a pretty cheap buck filled a big role for us.


Last edited by Ola: 05-08-2007 at 10:31 AM.
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Old
05-08-2007, 10:42 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Malik was on for 3 goals against in 10 games this PO's.

He played 40 minutes and 38 seconds on the PK, or for more then 20 whole penaltys, and was on for one goal against.

He played 170 minutes, just short of 3 whole games, of 5 on 5 and was on for 2 goals against.

This in the PO's against first a team with Hossa and Kovalchuk who he constantly went up against, and then against the best offensive team in the league. A D who can't hold is own will get owned by great players in this league. Malik is never owned. I would bet everything I own that the coach behind the bench on the other team rather would like to see us put Toots or Mara out there then Malik late in a game.

He made one bad pass, that was close to connecting with Nyls. Then was natrually shaky for a while when getting booed in the PO's.

People looked for someone to boo gooing into last season, Weekes heard it before the puck was dropped in the first game. Can it be more obvious? Malik got it right away too.

Could Malik have won MSG over? Defenitly. Though, and this is the problem, he is not a great player, and therefor gets threated like he is the worst D in the league. Or worst D in the league the last 2 decades. People even laid of Poti for stretches.

The fact that Malik is getting booed, quite frankly, only is proof of that there is allot of people in the MSG that don't know much about the game. Why even bother to bring up hits when he is playing very good defensive hockey? Isn't hits a tool to play defense? That Lydman on Buffalo's top pairing got beaten more times clean against us then Malik have been since December.

For a player Malik is in the worst possible situation, he will forever remember these years as a living hell. Its pretty bad, he is only 31 y/o. I actually think he have handled the puck better this season then last, and besides for some reason struggling in the start, have played really well lately. With some confidence he could have been a player who for a pretty cheap buck filled a big role for us.

Good work Ola, the unfortunate part is the guys that Boo will just never 'get it'.

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05-08-2007, 11:06 AM
  #56
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People will always boo him regardless of how he plays unless he plays like those who boo want him to play, just like with Poti.

Poti was one of the best Defensemen two seasons ago and he got booed every game. People love having their scapegoat. Two seasons ago (now) it was Poti and Weekes, now it's Malik. Weekes luckily got a lot of people off his back after he was fairly solid while Lundqvist was hurt last season. The problem is that Malik will always play great and then make that stupid play with the puck and then everyone gets on him. I must say, Malik rarely makes a defensive mistake, but when he has the puck, he tends to either make a great pass or mess up. He seems to not like to make the safe play and instead tries to make a good play everytime or he just doesn't think sometimes I don't know which it is.

The fact that he isn't physical and is a monster also adds to it. If he decided to hit people he'd be a monster back there. I hope that IF Malik stays next year he can get the fans off his back, otherwise he's in for another long year.

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Old
05-08-2007, 11:18 AM
  #57
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I don't Boo, either. I just can't get on people that do choose to boo.

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05-08-2007, 11:25 AM
  #58
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The only way that mailk can stop people booing him is to start hitting. Fans see a guy that big and they expect him to crush people. But he rarely lays a body check. It would give him alot of cred with the fans and also maybe add a little edge to the rangers. If you know you are going to get crunched by a guy 6'8 if you dump the puck on his side, you might hesitate dumping on that side.

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05-08-2007, 11:46 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by ogie View Post
The only way that mailk can stop people booing him is to start hitting. Fans see a guy that big and they expect him to crush people. But he rarely lays a body check. It would give him alot of cred with the fans and also maybe add a little edge to the rangers. If you know you are going to get crunched by a guy 6'8 if you dump the puck on his side, you might hesitate dumping on that side.
This raises the central question:

Do you want a defenseman to play good D and not hit or go for the big hit, put himself out of position and give up gobs of goals?


Last edited by chosen: 05-08-2007 at 12:19 PM.
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05-08-2007, 12:41 PM
  #60
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I must say, Malik rarely makes a defensive mistake, but when he has the puck, he tends to either make a great pass or mess up. He seems to not like to make the safe play and instead tries to make a good play everytime or he just doesn't think sometimes I don't know which it is.
Thats true. Though after hearing about Jagrs reaction after Aaron Ward dumped in a puck that had come out of the attackingzone instead of handling it in the neutralzone and attack again you defenitly understand what Malik is saying when he says that he plays for his teammates, not the fans.

He is not a idiot, in Vancouver he sent the puck out off the boards every time, with Nyls and JJ its allot better if you can hold on to it, instead of giving it away but staying in good defensive position.

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05-08-2007, 12:41 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by NYRChazzer View Post
People will always boo him regardless of how he plays unless he plays like those who boo want him to play, just like with Poti.

Poti was one of the best Defensemen two seasons ago and he got booed every game. People love having their scapegoat. Two seasons ago (now) it was Poti and Weekes, now it's Malik. Weekes luckily got a lot of people off his back after he was fairly solid while Lundqvist was hurt last season. The problem is that Malik will always play great and then make that stupid play with the puck and then everyone gets on him. I must say, Malik rarely makes a defensive mistake, but when he has the puck, he tends to either make a great pass or mess up. He seems to not like to make the safe play and instead tries to make a good play everytime or he just doesn't think sometimes I don't know which it is.

The fact that he isn't physical and is a monster also adds to it. If he decided to hit people he'd be a monster back there. I hope that IF Malik stays next year he can get the fans off his back, otherwise he's in for another long year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ogie View Post
The only way that mailk can stop people booing him is to start hitting. Fans see a guy that big and they expect him to crush people. But he rarely lays a body check. It would give him alot of cred with the fans and also maybe add a little edge to the rangers. If you know you are going to get crunched by a guy 6'8 if you dump the puck on his side, you might hesitate dumping on that side.
I gotta disagree with these sentiments. Malik wasn't booed last season at all. He was viewed as one of our steadiest guys, the one who covered for Roszival's mistakes even. He didn't hit last year or score or do anything amazing (besides 1 shootout goal). He was just competent and safe with the puck. He got the job done without much excitement one way or the other. The only thing that has changed is the turnovers and penalties. That is when the boos started and that is the only thing the fans want to change.

This is going around in circles. The supporters feel that his contributions out-weigh the mistakes, the detractors don't. Frankly, I feel that a defenseman has to take care of his own end first. I'm not especially concerned with breakout passes or shots from the point. They are important aspects for sure, but I want someone steady in their own end. In today's NHL, the name of the game is counterattack. Game plans revolve around capitalizing on mistakes. That is why a missed shot or a bad pass in the offensive zone is more forgivable than a turnover in the slot. On paper, they amount to the same but in a game one is greater than the other. To argue otherwise is just playing devil's advocate.

For what its worth, Poti has never been our best defenseman. If he was, he would have been the 6th worst defenseman in the league with the other 5 worst being his teammates... hardly a reason for a pat on the back. He turned the puck over, couldn't contain any forward and was called for holding and hooking on a regular basis before the crackdown.

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05-08-2007, 12:46 PM
  #62
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This raises the central question:

Do you want a defenseman to play good D and not hit or go for the big hit, put himself out of position and give up gobs of goals?
Nobody can answear that question better then Bob Hartly.

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05-08-2007, 12:46 PM
  #63
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Mugerya- I defenitly remember Malik getting booed really early. And it really started to pick up before the goal against Washington.

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05-08-2007, 12:51 PM
  #64
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Mugerya- I defenitly remember Malik getting booed really early. And it really started to pick up before the goal against Washington.
Well, I'll retract that part if it is true. I'll speak for myself and say that was was always happy with his play last season and definitely for stretches this year. The turnovers are what get me going.

I remember duking it out with SOS on many occassions about Roszival and how Malik was covering for him. Something about how Roszival's +- was a misleading stat and if not for Malik and Lundqvist a boatload more goals would have been scored against his line.

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05-08-2007, 01:58 PM
  #65
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I think a lot of the hatred comes from the same place as love the Garden fans have for players like Ortmeyer and Hollweg or Todd Harvey or PJ Stock or Nickie Fotiu. Maybe its a part of the 54 years or just the New York way, we appreciate hard work and effort. Hell, Jed couldn't score in a whorehouse with a fistfull of dollars but I proudly wear his jersey. Why? He plays with every fiber of his being every moment he is on the ice and looks like he appreciates the situation he is in.

Malik and Poti before him don't seem to do that. They lackadaisically skate around the ice more often then not, picking their spots, using their stick rather than their bodies and make bad decisions that result in goals. Both have glimmers of hope offensively but frankly, are not Brian Leetch. Both make some decent passes but aren't Sergei Zubov. So unless they are going to punish people for being in our zone, aren't a lock-down player or aren't going to score 10, 15 goals and 40+ points then what use are they?

I don't need a villian on the team, I just want a team that appreciates the honor of wearing that jersey reflects it in their play. Because I know that I, and thousands of others, would kill for that chance to wear that jersey, to be part of the team. Just for one shift. If this big, soft dope is going to putz around the zone looking like a traffic cone on a nascar track then I am going to boo him because I feel he is disrespecting the jersey and by extension my hopes, dreams and pride.

Malik may make a nice pass here and there... and he may be fine with the puck when no one's around... But he makes TOO many ******* turnovers in his own zone. And don't bring up that BS plus/minus. It's a misleading stat for a defenseman.

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05-08-2007, 02:05 PM
  #66
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Did you boo Shanahan when he caused a back breaking goal against in the final game?
No. Because he didn't do it every other game.

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Did you boo Mara when he shot it into the crowd for no apparent reason?
No. Because he didn't do it every other game.

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Did you boo Tyutin and Avery for stupid icings at the end of games?
No. Because he didn't do it every other game.

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Malik had a far better series against Buffalo than Tyutin, Girardi, Mara or Avery even with ignorant fans booing him at home in a Playoff game.
Get off your high horse and stop being the treehugger "Let's love everyone, maaaaaaaaaaaaaaan."
I've been watching hockey for years, and I've gone to every game this season. I sure as hell wasn't "ignorant" when I booed Malik. I did it because I was pissed off at him, as were the fans who were fed up with his seemingly-continuous mistakes.

I DID cheer him when he'd make a good dive to keep the puck in the zone here and there. So obviously it's not Malik hatred. It's lazy-repeated-mistake-hatred.

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05-08-2007, 02:11 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Mugerya View Post
The supporters feel that his contributions out-weigh the mistakes, the detractors don't. Frankly, I feel that a defenseman has to take care of his own end first. I'm not especially concerned with breakout passes or shots from the point. They are important aspects for sure, but I want someone steady in their own end. In today's NHL, the name of the game is counterattack. Game plans revolve around capitalizing on mistakes. That is why a missed shot or a bad pass in the offensive zone is more forgivable than a turnover in the slot. On paper, they amount to the same but in a game one is greater than the other. To argue otherwise is just playing devil's advocate.

Brilliantly put! Some people just "don't get it." (To steal a line from the holier-than-thou in this thread!)

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05-08-2007, 02:18 PM
  #68
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Brilliantly put! Some people just "don't get it." (To steal a line from the holier-than-thou in this thread!)
13 posts and i'm already packing your bags

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05-08-2007, 02:44 PM
  #69
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to all those fans that are about to boo Malik

think Bruce Driver

I've ridden Malik for his soft play and some of the mistakes he makes, but at the end of the day, he does more good than bad and should not be booed when he touches the puck, just when he flubbes up.

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05-08-2007, 02:52 PM
  #70
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13 posts and i'm already packing your bags
Haha... alright, I'll give up.
How about I give ol' Number 8 a clean slate for next season?
(In all honesty, I think all of us who are annoyed at him should do that.)

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05-08-2007, 02:55 PM
  #71
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I've ridden Malik for his soft play and some of the mistakes he makes, but at the end of the day, he does more good than bad and should not be booed when he touches the puck, just when he flubbes up.
Right, you want to let the guy have it for screwing up then let him have it... but for god sake get over it and move on. If you can't do that then your issues obviously run deeper than just reacting to mistakes.

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05-08-2007, 03:13 PM
  #72
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Haha... alright, I'll give up.
How about I give ol' Number 8 a clean slate for next season?
(In all honesty, I think all of us who are annoyed at him should do that.)
Thats the spirit

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05-08-2007, 03:31 PM
  #73
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Right, you want to let the guy have it for screwing up then let him have it... but for god sake get over it and move on. If you can't do that then your issues obviously run deeper than just reacting to mistakes.
feel me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

Malik gets what he deserves.

i for one dont boo him, but he makes the same, exact, bone-headed mistakes time and time again. blind passes through the neutral zone. you dont friggin do it, you just dont. it should be embeded in your genetic code if you are a professional hockey player. NO BLIND PASSES THROUGH THE NEUTRAL ZONE.

i dont care if he shanks a million shots wide in the offensive zone, but his defensive turnovers for the same exact reason are what pisses me, and many others off.

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05-08-2007, 05:07 PM
  #74
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feel me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

Malik gets what he deserves.

i for one dont boo him, but he makes the same, exact, bone-headed mistakes time and time again. blind passes through the neutral zone. you dont friggin do it, you just dont. it should be embeded in your genetic code if you are a professional hockey player. NO BLIND PASSES THROUGH THE NEUTRAL ZONE.

i dont care if he shanks a million shots wide in the offensive zone, but his defensive turnovers for the same exact reason are what pisses me, and many others off.
He does get what he deserves - making a nice load of cash playing professional hockey. He's more accomplished than most of the boo'ers ever will be, but he's the failure

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05-08-2007, 06:56 PM
  #75
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Well, I'll retract that part if it is true. I'll speak for myself and say that was was always happy with his play last season and definitely for stretches this year. The turnovers are what get me going.

I remember duking it out with SOS on many occassions about Roszival and how Malik was covering for him. Something about how Roszival's +- was a misleading stat and if not for Malik and Lundqvist a boatload more goals would have been scored against his line.
I think you are right. The quickest defense for the pro-Malik crowd is the old and quite worn-out excuse of "if he were physical, he would not get booed". I think that I can speak for most of the vets around here when I say, with confidence, that no one cares if he hits or doesn't hit. They care about his defensive play. For the first half of the year, him and Ozolinsh were in a run-off about who the team's worst defenseman is. Fact is, that Pock, on many nights, outplayed Malik by quite a wide margin.
Last year, he got his due. This year, he reversed himself. Many, many times do I recall reading GDT threads in which he was, by majority of accounts, the team's worst defenseman on the ice. He had a pretty poor playoffs and a pretty poor year. He will be here next year as no one will take that contract. But after that, it will be time to move on and let younger players take his place.

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