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Who's the big name we're getting this off-season?

View Poll Results: Our big name acquisition?
Scott Gomez 18 13.24%
Brad Richards 21 15.44%
Patrick Marleau 4 2.94%
Sheldon Souray 8 5.88%
Daniel Briere 53 38.97%
Chris Drury 16 11.76%
Other(please state) 16 11.76%
Voters: 136. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-09-2007, 07:37 PM
  #26
JXC
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I think they make The Big Move for Drury and then land either Rafalski or Salo at D.

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05-09-2007, 07:54 PM
  #27
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I think they make The Big Move for Drury and then land either Rafalski or Salo at D.
Salo re-signed with the Canucks for 4 years and $14 million. Rafalski might be a possibility. No way does Holmgren through 6 million bucks at a 2nd line center and that's being generous when describing Drury. Briere had nearly as many assists as Drury had points. Sorry, we don't need Drury, we need a playmaker who can put up 80+ points a year.

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05-09-2007, 07:54 PM
  #28
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Dude, this is the NHL, not some fantasy league. You don't think Jay Feaster didn't know this was going to happen 2 years down the road? You're kidding yourself and so is anyone else who thought otherwise. Jay Feaster knew people on message boards and in the media would lecture him on the salary cap. I'm sure he's listening to them too.

What do I do if I'm Jay Feaster? Get rid of anyone who sucks - what any other half decent GM would do.
1) GMs ain't that bright in sports... look at the BS teams do on a regular basis in ALL sports to dissuade you of the belief that these guys by DEFAULT have a clue. You live in Philly, you going to make a coherent argument to me that Ed Wade wasn't a complete bafoon in how he put together those Phils teams contractually? Man also got abused in every trade he ever made.

GMs don't get the benefit of the doubt in their decision making, no one in authority positions gets the benefit of the doubt. Go read the history of ANYTHING (i read military/diplomatic, which means i see it all the friggin time) to prove to yourself that people are consistently stupid, and, yes, i realize you could turn that logic on myself... and am fine with that.

So, no, I don't think Jay Feaster thought this all through correctly. I think he thought, "oh, crap! i need to sign Richards before he becomes a RFA!" and he did... now he has a serious friggin problem.

2) Right, I agree with you... he should get rid of guys that suck... problem is, guys that suck don't clear you too much cap space, do they? Feaster needs work at MANAGING his cap number, and you can only do that by clearing significant cap space.

look at the list of guys I put up there for you that display his cap problem:

Tampa Bay
Brad Richards - 7.8M
Vinny Lecavalier - 7.2M
Marting St. Louis - 6M
Dan Boyle - 3.6M (UFA after next season)
Vaclav Prospal - 1.9M
Filip Kuba - 3M

He's not going to get rid of ANY of those guys this offseason... hell, Boyle is UNDERPAID for what he brings to the table, and Prospal is on a very good deal for a veteran who potted 55 pts this past year.

Anyone else you move that I didn't mention does NOTHING for Feaster in fixing his cap problem... nothing, they're not part of the problem that I just presented to you. He has over HALF his supposed salary cap tied up in 3 players out of a necessary roster of 23.

I agree with you, ideally you don't move good players... but your response: 'Get rid of anyone who sucks - what any other half decent GM would do' doesn't solve the problem I just presented to you. You have a ridiculous amount of your cap space tied up in a small group of players... How do you solve the problem? getting rid of bad players doesn't solve your CAP PROBLEM.

Welcome to the new NHL, when you dig yourself a financial grave (which Jay Feaster most assuredly did -- as have numerous NFL and NBA GMs in previous years) you have to dig out by making trades you don't want to make. You're right, he may not make that trade in an attempt to salvage the situation... but, that would only continue my belief that Jay Fester is a crappy GM.

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Old
05-09-2007, 07:55 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Salo re-signed with the Canucks for 4 years and $14 million. Rafalski might be a possibility. No way does Holmgren through 6 million bucks at a 2nd line center and that's being generous when describing Drury. Briere had nearly as many assists as Drury had points. Sorry, we don't need Drury, we need a playmaker who can put up 80+ points a year.
Drury is definitely a 2nd line center in this league... he's a quality offensive player who can help out in a lot of different places on the ice. However, he doesn't solve our problem, I agree. NJ literally CANNOT lose Rafalski, so I would be shocked to see him leave there... especially when they let Gomez walk and have the space to get him.

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05-09-2007, 08:27 PM
  #30
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Let's talk about where the Lightning dug their grave.


They went out and got Marc Denis and he was a piece of crap.



They lost because of it.



You're throwing these cap numbers around and they mean less and less as the cap goes up. You know they only had $1.7M less as a projected cap number than we did? Now you're going to say "but they have $20M in 3 players" I say that got them further than half the league. The rest they can deal with.

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05-09-2007, 08:38 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Let's talk about where the Lightning dug their grave.


They went out and got Marc Denis and he was a piece of crap.



They lost because of it.



You're throwing these cap numbers around and they mean less and less as the cap goes up. You know they only had $1.7M less as a projected cap number than we did? Now you're going to say "but they have $20M in 3 players" I say that got them further than half the league. The rest they can deal with.
Marc Denis isn't the reason for their cap troubles... and he isn't where they dug their grave. Their grave starts with bleeding talent like Khabibulin, Kubina, etc. Why? because they couldn't afford to keep them with other players on the roster.

you're missing the KEY FRIGGIN POINT the owner is supposedly implementing a SELF IMPOSED salary cap of 40M... their cap number, if that is true, is GOING DOWN next year. so those cap numbers become more and more important.

the rising cap space is ONLY useful to a team if they're willing to take advantage of that extra space and spend extra money. the reports coming out of Tampa are that not only are they not willing to use the cap space, they're going to use less.

It got them a first round ouster... And it will be difficult for that team to improve the talent that they currently have without making cap related decisions.

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05-09-2007, 08:43 PM
  #32
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They are fine. They have solid younger players coming up, they're in no hurry. You sound like all the other people running around screaming that they have to trade Richards as if they have no choice. They lost because of the goalie. No one would be saying they are in trouble if they're winning.

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05-09-2007, 08:54 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
They are fine. They have solid younger players coming up, they're in no hurry. You sound like all the other people running around screaming that they have to trade Richards as if they have no choice. They lost because of the goalie. No one would be saying they are in trouble if they're winning.
They will always be good with Vinny, B. Richards, and St. Louis as their headliners, that alone makes them good enough to beat people any given night. However, they will never be deep enough to win the cup with that salary structure. They won't be able to afford good goalies... they won't be able to afford good defensemen. They will get shredded whenever a good young player has a good season and takes them to arbitration and wins a decent award.

I'm not saying they HAVE to trade B. Richards, Vinny, or St. Louis... I'm saying they SHOULD trade one of them. Clearly they can build a 23 man roster, however by quite simple mathematics i'm proving to you that they will have to build that team with 17 players averaging $618,000 dollars next year. league minimum is $450,000 dollars... do you honestly think that is a wise way to construct a team? I don't... I think anyone doing some objective analysis of that would see that it makes a tremendous amount of sense to make a deal that frees a bit of cap space and creates a deeper team. So, you can poo-poo what myself and others are saying about this... you can simply ignore the fact that your argument about the growing cap space is ignoring the situation that may be developing there... you can ignore the lessons from EVERY other sport that has a salary cap like structure and what happens there... and believe that somehow hockey will be different, but it won't.

The Patriots and Eagles have been consistently successful over the years for one reason, and one reason alone... they've managed their cap well and remained flexible. The Lighnting have ZERO flexibility with their current salary structure... if Feaster is as smart as you seem to think he is, then he will give some serious thought to a trade. I'm not running around shouting, i'm analyzing the situation given the facts that are out there.

That you don't think he is going to, or that he has to trade one of them is fine... but that doesn't refute any of the issues in TB that I'm presenting here. They have a very real salary cap problem and unless their owner agrees to go to the roof, or Feaster makes a move to free up space... they will lack depth and lose quality players on an annual basis.

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05-09-2007, 09:00 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
They are fine. They have solid younger players coming up, they're in no hurry.
What? http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...003042007.html
Quote:
You sound like all the other people running around screaming that they have to trade Richards as if they have no choice. They lost because of the goalie. No one would be saying they are in trouble if they're winning.
Holmqvist wasn't the problem. It was their secondary scoring that ultimately did the Lightning in. Outside of the big three, there was a combined three goals score.
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Originally Posted by Jester
I'm not saying they HAVE to trade B. Richards, Vinny, or St. Louis... I'm saying they SHOULD trade one of them.
I am. Next year, they will be losing Fedotenko and either Pratt or Sarich (possibly Prospal as well). I know a lot of fans are saying good riddance, but they need to have some ****ing common sense. They don't have some one as capable waiting in Springfield, and market value says that you aren't going to get a better player for cheaper through free agency. The Lightning are only going to get worse as time goes on.


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05-09-2007, 09:07 PM
  #35
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even if they did, the problem is that any good young player they had coming up would be a problem to hold onto. look at the issues that Buffalo had last year and is going to have this year... if TB ever did develop quality young depth they would quickly lose it as those players hit arbitration.

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05-09-2007, 09:37 PM
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I've seen an interview with Gagné (on French RDS) tonite. He said he would be thrilled to have Brière with the Flyers.

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05-09-2007, 09:48 PM
  #37
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I am. Next year, they will be losing Fedotenko and either Pratt or Sarich (possibly Prospal as well). I know a lot of fans are saying good riddance, but they need to have some ****ing common sense. They don't have some one as capable waiting in Springfield, and market value says that you aren't going to get a better player for cheaper through free agency. The Lightning are only going to get worse as time goes on.
well, i agree with what you're saying... however, GKJ is right that they don't have to. you and i are simply agreeing that any rational person should see that it would be rather wise for them to do so. Prospal making less than 2M was a bit of a surprise to me, but i imagine that's from the down year out in Anaheim. while having good young players coming up is something that teams need to build around under the salary cap, the fact that you have a salary structure that won't let you hold onto anyone is a real problem.

Feds is already gone and he wasn't all that great this year anyway... though, replacing him with someone better at the same rate (he only made 1.7M) isn't necessarily the easiest thing in the world, unless you're going to live off of signing veterans no one wants, or vagabonds that you hope find themselves with you. 2nd line players cost money... good 3rd line players... cost money... top 4 defenseman are making 3+M easy.

I can't wait to have this discussion about Pittsburgh in a couple of years... If I'm Shero I already have it in my head that I'm going to do a sign-and-trade with Malkin.


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05-09-2007, 09:49 PM
  #38
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I've seen an interview with Gagné (on French RDS) tonite. He said he would be thrilled to have Brière with the Flyers.
I think they would have a lot of fun playing with each other at a very high tempo... It'll be interesting to see what happens.

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05-09-2007, 10:13 PM
  #39
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If its Souray, I will personally come over there and kick Homer in the nuts.

I think it will be Briere.

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05-09-2007, 10:39 PM
  #40
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Timonen and Briere
That's who I think we have the best shot(s) at as well. For Timonen: we have his brother and we have his close friend. For Briere: I keep thinking back to one of Biron's first interviews when he got here. He said something to the effect of, "....me and Danny were just talking about playing for Philly next year....."

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Probably no one. Next year is going to suck worse than this year.

AWWWWWW, don't even think such thoughts. We definitely improved our team at the trade deadline, but the damage was done early in the season. If we're worse than this year, I may be looking for a bridge to jump off of.

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05-09-2007, 10:40 PM
  #41
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Markov

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05-09-2007, 10:48 PM
  #42
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Markov
A. Markov, or D. Markov?

D. Markov will not be coming back... as much as I would enjoy having him back.

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05-09-2007, 10:51 PM
  #43
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A. Markov, or D. Markov?

D. Markov will not be coming back... as much as I would enjoy having him back.

A. Markov

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05-09-2007, 10:53 PM
  #44
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AWWWWWW, don't even think such thoughts. We definitely improved our team at the trade deadline, but the damage was done early in the season. If we're worse than this year, I may be looking for a bridge to jump off of.
don't worry, it will be a better team just with having Biron back there and a consistent situation at the front of the lineup without the Forsberg ankle experiment. if we get a no. 1 center and a top pairing defenseman we might challenge for a playoff spot if we get equal play from the younger players... if the younger players start to step up, which we really need from Carter, Richards, Pitkanen, Coburn, Umberger, Upshall, etc. (notice how many there are... not a good recipe for consistent success) then we may shoot up the standings.

young players are an interesting thing... sometimes they sorta just sort it all out all the sudden and are money (ref. Staal, Eric). other times they just kinda putter along... I agree with BCF16 that Carter may have one of those type of jumps, his wrist shot is simply too nasty to not start finding the back of the net more. he just needs to stop trying to ping it in off the pipe so much. Richards looked like he was settling in a good bit at the end of the year, if we get that level of play (he won't produce points the way he was down the stretch consistently) from him throughout the year, then we should be alright on the third line if we find a decent LW.

it'll be a transition year... don't worry, we literally CAN'T be worse next year.

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05-09-2007, 10:53 PM
  #45
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A. Markov
i'd love him... but think he'll re-sign in Montreal... they'll have the money.

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05-09-2007, 11:01 PM
  #46
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Gut feeling: Timonen and some sort of a trade for another acquisition.

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05-09-2007, 11:03 PM
  #47
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Gut feeling: Timonen and some sort of a trade for another acquisition.
i agree... and i actually think that Holmgren is giving a lot of thought to moving the no. 2 in a deal and one of the reasons he's thrown it out there in interviews a couple of times is to sorta plant it in peoples minds prior to the draft, so he can avoid people flipping out a bit if he makes a move with it.

Timonen seems to make too much sense... Nashville has so many young defensemen to deal with down there... with his brother and Kapanen... too much sense. hopefully it's a reasonable deal if it happens.

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05-10-2007, 02:17 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Roger's Pancreas View Post
What? http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...003042007.htmlHolmqvist wasn't the problem. It was their secondary scoring that ultimately did the Lightning in. Outside of the big three, there was a combined three goals score.I am. Next year, they will be losing Fedotenko and either Pratt or Sarich (possibly Prospal as well). I know a lot of fans are saying good riddance, but they need to have some ****ing common sense. They don't have some one as capable waiting in Springfield, and market value says that you aren't going to get a better player for cheaper through free agency. The Lightning are only going to get worse as time goes on.
Did you see that series? There was at least two games where the goalie completely crapped the bed and it was the difference in the series, they didn't even need the secondary scoring because Lecavalier and St. Louis lit Brodeur up. And what's your point with the Springfield Falcons? Post the Phantoms stats and tell me we have complete **** running through our system. The Lightning didn't even have Ryan Craig and Paul Ranger down there until they were up. They have a few fine young defenseman who will work themselves into the lineup over the next few years.


And to others: they're not trading the 2nd overall pick for help. It's just not happening. Either accept that or be in denial of it. I don't care what Holmgren is saying. Don't believe everything you hear, he wouldn't be doing his job if he said otherwise.

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05-10-2007, 05:17 AM
  #49
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Isn't it amazing how every thread somehow goes back to Brad Richards?....

Anyway I have a matrix of who I think we should get:

no.1 C: Richards>Briere>Gomez>Drury>Lang

no.1/2 D: Timonen>Rafalski>Preissing>Schneider>A.Markov>D.Ma rkov>Souray>Hannan

no.2 LW: Kozlov>Hartnell

no.3/4 F: W.Primeau>Laraque>Laperriere

we will be lucky to get 3 of these guys, and I would be dissappointed if we didn't land at least 2 of them.

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05-10-2007, 07:01 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Did you see that series? There was at least two games where the goalie completely crapped the bed and it was the difference in the series, they didn't even need the secondary scoring because Lecavalier and St. Louis lit Brodeur up. And what's your point with the Springfield Falcons? Post the Phantoms stats and tell me we have complete **** running through our system. The Lightning didn't even have Ryan Craig and Paul Ranger down there until they were up. They have a few fine young defenseman who will work themselves into the lineup over the next few years.


And to others: they're not trading the 2nd overall pick for help. It's just not happening. Either accept that or be in denial of it. I don't care what Holmgren is saying. Don't believe everything you hear, he wouldn't be doing his job if he said otherwise.

So did Richards, same amount of goals and points as St Louis. Why the prejudice against Richards on this board

I think the real point is that other then the big 3, they got 3 goals from the rest of the team. That is equal to the big 3 scoring 79% of the goals. Now for one series that might not mean a whole heck of a lot, but I doubt a team is going to go too far when 3 players have 79% or more of the teams goals/points. That is what will continue if they keep half the cap tied up in 4 players.

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