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Old
05-10-2007, 09:43 PM
  #51
Higgy4
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Retiring and turning down offers to return to Detroit to go to another team are totally different things. You seem to believe they are exactly alike for some reason.
Retiring with 2 years left on an existing contract and with the entire city of Detroit and every member of the Red Wings organization begging you to stay? Thats not exactly the most loyal thing to do.

Sure, he eventually gave back some cash. Whoopity doo. He signed a 3 year extension, played 1 year and retired for his own personal reasons.

No, it isnt the same as signing with another team. But his decision to give up on the team after 1 year led to that disastrous Cujo signing and then led to a major distraction when Dom decided that he wanted to play again. He left for selfish reasons, and he returned for selfish reasons.

I am baffled by this notion that people think this guy is such a stand up person.

Look, I am ecstatic that he is back in the Wings net. And I hope to God that he comes back for a decent salary next year. I would love that. But he has not been a loyal, team oriented player in the past.

Again, he may stay. But dont be surprised if he takes 1 more decent sized pay day. He has earned it...thats for sure.

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05-10-2007, 09:44 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
Yeah, because they both involve HIM NOT BEING ON THE TEAM ANY MORE.

"No no no officer... see, I only stabbed him to death. Now, if I had shot him to death, well, then you'd have something."
Quite shocking that you don't understand the difference.

You're basically saying retiring from a team shows a player is being disloyal. Was Michael Jordan disloyal for retiring them coming back?

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05-10-2007, 09:46 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
To retire, sure.
And then unretire. And then re-retire.

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05-10-2007, 09:46 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Higgy4 View Post
I am baffled by this notion that people think this guy is such a stand up person.
I know I'm not exactly showing it right now, but I'm not a Hasek fan. I hated the way he left and was pissed off when he came back and got hurt. It was ridiculous. I'm not talking about that right now. I thought we're talking about what is happening next season?

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05-10-2007, 09:49 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
At that time, he wasn't wanted. They had enough of the goalie carousel B.S. So, you're basically agreeing with me. It wasn't thanks for the cup, now piss off. It was more like "we don't feel like dealing with the 3 goalie drama again, we'll call you later on if we need you again".
What 3 goalie drama? Cujo was gone at that point too. All they had after the lockout was Legace.

If Hasek was so loyal and wanted to continue to play for the Wings, he could have told Holland to fit him under the cap somewhere. Thats what Osgood eventually did. Ozzie was signed LATE in the offseason. There was plenty of time for Hasek to sign a cheap deal to stay with the team that he loves. Or so you say anyway.

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05-10-2007, 09:50 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
I know I'm not exactly showing it right now, but I'm not a Hasek fan. I hated the way he left and was pissed off when he came back and got hurt. It was ridiculous. I'm not talking about that right now. I thought we're talking about what is happening next season?
Right.

And you just said that you were pissed at his PAST HISTORY and what he did last time.

So again...what makes you so sure he doesnt do something unexpected again?

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05-10-2007, 09:51 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Quite shocking that you don't understand the difference.
Similarly shocking that you don't quite seem to grasp that dead is dead. Gone is gone. Left is left. Saying that a guy's not dangerous because he'd never kill you with a knife, he only uses guns... well, that's just nuts. Similarly, saying that Hasek wouldn't leave for money when he's already demonstrated on two occasions he'd leave for other things without regard for money... so we don't have to worry about him leaving?

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You're basically saying retiring from a team shows a player is being disloyal. Was Michael Jordan disloyal for retiring them coming back?
Heaton... you are legitimately killing me here.

I am saying, for the 4 billionth time, that Hasek would leave the team in a heartbeat. Call that whatever you want to call it. He would. He HAS for crying out loud.

Seriously, what am I missing here? Since he hasn't left for money before, you're thinking that means he'll stay if the money is equal? He left millions of dollars sitting on the table when he retired the first time. Just left it there. Are you saying he wouldn't do that again to sign with another team?

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05-10-2007, 09:52 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Higgy4 View Post
What 3 goalie drama? Cujo was gone at that point too. All they had after the lockout was Legace.

If Hasek was so loyal and wanted to continue to play for the Wings, he could have told Holland to fit him under the cap somewhere. Thats what Osgood eventually did. Ozzie was signed LATE in the offseason. There was plenty of time for Hasek to sign a cheap deal to stay with the team that he loves. Or so you say anyway.
Did Holland want to re-sign Hasek?

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05-10-2007, 09:53 PM
  #59
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Holy **** you guys. I never said Hasek WOULDN'T retire. All I ever said was that I don't think he'd ever play anywhere else AS LONG AS Detroit still wants him here. This is BASED ON what he SAID when he re-signed here this season.

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05-10-2007, 10:06 PM
  #60
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I... I'm simply boggled. This is Dominik Hasek we're talking about, right? At what point did what he says become the end all of what he really thinks? I mean, have we not seen his act in Buffalo? In Ottawa? In Detroit? Twice?

Agh. I hate it when current success drowns out accurate recollection.

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05-10-2007, 10:11 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Did Holland want to re-sign Hasek?

I dont know. And neither do you. So you cant realistically say that he was "unwanted."

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05-10-2007, 10:13 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
I... I'm simply boggled. This is Dominik Hasek we're talking about, right? At what point did what he says become the end all of what he really thinks? I mean, have we not seen his act in Buffalo? In Ottawa? In Detroit? Twice?

Agh. I hate it when current success drowns out accurate recollection.
My opinion is that he'll retire or that he'll re-sign here and that I don't believe he'll sign anywhere else and somehow I'm delusional.

I didn't realize how far off base I was!

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Originally Posted by Higgy4 View Post
I dont know. And neither do you. So you cant realistically say that he was "unwanted."
And at the same time you can't say otherwise, so it's all a matter of opinion... So, what were we talking about again?

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05-10-2007, 10:15 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Holy **** you guys. I never said Hasek WOULDN'T retire. All I ever said was that I don't think he'd ever play anywhere else AS LONG AS Detroit still wants him here. This is BASED ON what he SAID when he re-signed here this season.
He actually said that he would play here next year or retire? Those were the only two options he left open?

You heard him say this?

And Detroit probably does want him back. Hell...so do I. But that doesnt mean he wont try and negotiate for more money.

This whole thing started when I said it was DOUBTFUL that Hasek is back with the Wings for $750K. You immediately came back with a post saying that you think he would come back for less than a million.

I dont think so. Chelios is one case...a very rare case. He isnt a an all-star caliber defensman anymore and he has said NUMEROUS times that he will play here for whatever salary the Wings give him. This isnt debateable. Hasek has never said this.

He may stay, but I dont think it will be for as cheap as he played this year. And that becomes even more cloudy when other CONTENDING teams come to see if he wants to play for them for 3-4 million. It will be very tempting, and nothing in his past with the Wings leads us to believe that he wont at least CONTEMPLATE leaving to play someplace else.

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05-10-2007, 10:17 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post


And at the same time you can't say otherwise, so it's all a matter of opinion... So, what were we talking about again?
I am playing both sides of the fence here. I have since the beginning of this discussion. You seem hell bent on trying to find reasons pertaining to why you KNOW he will stay. I dont know ****. You have been forcing an argument on why he will stay.

I am just saying that the chances of him playing someplace else are just as good as him staying.

I am being democratic on it, you are clearly picking a side.

But I think we are both getting bored with this.

We will just have to wait and see.

And when he signs with another team or the Wings give him a ridiculous 1 year/$4 million deal I will do this...

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05-10-2007, 10:18 PM
  #65
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He actually said that he would play here next year or retire? Those were the only two options he left open?

You heard him say this?
Well according to HockeyinHD we aren't allowed to read between the lines with what Hasek says, so I guess I can't say that for sure. Can I?

I mean when Hasek says: "I already told the agent, 'Don't answer the phone calls or just say thank you,' " Hasek said of any interest from NHL teams. "But when Ken Holland called, it was like, 'Oh, well, you can give him my cell number, no problem. I want to talk to him.'

I guess I'm just supposed to roll my eyes and believe that he really means that he'll play where ever.

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05-10-2007, 10:21 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Well according to HockeyinHD we aren't allowed to read between the lines with what Hasek says, so I guess I can't say that for sure. Can I?

I mean when Hasek says: "I already told the agent, 'Don't answer the phone calls or just say thank you,' " Hasek said of any interest from NHL teams. "But when Ken Holland called, it was like, 'Oh, well, you can give him my cell number, no problem. I want to talk to him.'

I guess I'm just supposed to roll my eyes and believe that he really means that he'll play where ever.
Well, I have already brought up the Columbus situation. So, Hasek probably was listening to other teams and actively looking for work.

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05-10-2007, 10:21 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Higgy4 View Post
I am playing both sides of the fence here. I have since the beginning of this discussion. You seem hell bent on trying to find reasons pertaining to why you KNOW he will stay. I dont know ****. You have been forcing an argument on why he will stay.

I am just saying that the chances of him playing someplace else are just as good as him staying.

I am being democratic on it, you are clearly picking a side.
Jesus dude, who the hell knows the chances of him playing or retiring or running for Mayor of Detroit? I'm of the opinion that he's never tried to squeeze money during negotiations and I don't see him doing it now. He's going to be 43, if it's a difference of 500k to play here or play in Phoenix, what do you think he'd do?''

I've said it's a possibility that he'd leave but I don't THINK and that's the key word, that shows that I'm making an opinion! That he wouldn't want to.

I also want to point out that I really don't care either way what he does after this season.


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05-10-2007, 10:23 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Higgy4 View Post
Well, I have already brought up the Columbus situation. So, Hasek probably was listening to other teams and actively looking for work.
How seriously though? I'd still like to hear that audio. Getting his name out there to show that he's serious to come back and actually wanting to go to a bottom feeder like Columbus are two different things.


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05-10-2007, 11:47 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by octopi View Post
I'm torn on Hasek. I think the odds on him continuing to remain healthy shrink by the day.

However, he is a huge reason why the Wings are in the conference fianls, and if he can be healthy most of the time, he is one of the better(possibly the best, period)available goalies out there that wouldn't cost the Wings players to trade for.
Bring him back, and rest him every 4th game or so. Play him until he can't play anymore at his elite level. The Wings have an insurance policy named Jimmy Howard. Keep Howard at Grand Rapids playing heavy minutes. Howard won't improve his game by riding the bench in Detroit. The longer Howard stays at GR, the better he will be when he "graduates" to Detroit. When Hasek is played out, or when he gets injured, whichever happens first, bring up Howard.

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05-10-2007, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Higgy4 View Post
Chelios will easily fit under the cap. He loves it in Detroit and signs for peanuts every year.

Hasek? After this year he may want to cash in on 1 more big, fat contract. I dont know if he will get it with the Red Wings.
The Wings definitely should bring back Chelios. Quincey is showing in these playoffs that he now belongs in the NHL, and the Wings need to get younger and more physical on the blue line. Moreover, either Meech makes the Wings next season, or he becomse a free agent. From everything I've read about him, he's ready to play in the NHL. Therefore, the Wings will have at least two young D-men on the roster next season, and Chelios is an excellent old hand to have around to mentor them in their first season.

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05-11-2007, 07:23 AM
  #71
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My opinion is that he'll retire or that he'll re-sign here and that I don't believe he'll sign anywhere else and somehow I'm delusional.
Because he's already retired and then un-retired, and then signed somewhere else once, Heaton. Again, what am I missing here? Who's saying the guy is only going to leave for more money? Maybe he 'retires' at the end of this year, thinks about it for three or four months, and then 3 weeks before camp decides he's going to give it another go.

I have no idea what Hasek will do. He's goofy.

The point here is that you have absolutely no idea either... so saying you're certain he won't do something is patently crazy, especially when he's already done it.

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05-11-2007, 08:09 AM
  #72
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Uh, how the heck do you figure that? He retired from Detroit (ditching them once) unretired and subsequently screwed the team, got hurt, and gave money back to leave (ditching them twice).

I'm not trying to be hard on the guy... but let's not let a current playoff run completely anesthetize our brains to history.
I'm sorry, but you are the one portraying a revisionist history here. Dom didn't leave the Wings after 2002. He freaking retired. At that point he just didn't want to play anymore. Yes, it did leave the Wings in a bad spot. But such things happen. If Dom didn't feel like playing, he wasn't going to be himself. In that case, it's better to have him walk away.

In 03-04, Dom decided he wanted to come back. The desire returned. It was Holland's mistake to pick up the option on Hasek's contract with no plan to move Joseph. That created a very uncomfortable environment, and when Dom got hurt he decided to shut down. Is Hasek partially to blame, for leaving the team? Yes. But Holland shoulders some of the blame too. And we did have Joseph, so all wasn't lost.

After that season, Hasek wanted to come back again but Holland had no interest.



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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
So, based on what you just wrote... if someone in charge of a decent team comes up to Dom and offers him more money and more starts than Detroit why wouldn't he take it? I fail to see how you demonstrating that he's already done it shows how he wouldn't do it again.
You, you missed a HUGE point. Hasek signed in Ottawa because Muckler was there. He felt comfortable with someone he already had experience working under. So there are two prerequisites for Hasek to play anywhere.

1. They have to be a contending team

2. He has to be familiar with the organization, or key people within it.


People, Hasek said over and over when he was signed this summer that after Ottawa declined to make him an offer he felt he was done. Not because he couldn't find a job on an NHL team. It was because there were only a couple of teams he'd play for, and he didn't think they would be interested. He told his agent not to bother even answering the phone. How people can dismiss that as nothing is beyond me.

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05-11-2007, 08:25 AM
  #73
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Because he's already retired and then un-retired, and then signed somewhere else once, Heaton. Again, what am I missing here? Who's saying the guy is only going to leave for more money? Maybe he 'retires' at the end of this year, thinks about it for three or four months, and then 3 weeks before camp decides he's going to give it another go.

I have no idea what Hasek will do. He's goofy.

The point here is that you have absolutely no idea either... so saying you're certain he won't do something is patently crazy, especially when he's already done it.
You complained in an earlier post about people's recollections. Yours though seems to be quite problematic.

1. Yes, Hasek retired. First, the Wings knew in advance of the trade with Buffalo that this was a real possibility - Dom leaving if they won the cup. But who could blame the guy? He had enough of the NHL (or so he thought) and didn't need any money.

Secondly, he didn't pull a Barry Sanders. He let Kenny Holland know very early that summer, so Holland could fill the hole. That's a class act, he didn't leave anyone hanging.

Thirdly, how the hell is this being disloyal?!?

2. When Hasek decided to come back, the Wings had an option year on his contract. Holland didn't have to exercise it. He did. In hindsight, that was a huge mistake.

3. Following the 03-04 season, Holland decided to let both Hasek and Joseph go without an offer. So, Hasek signing elsehwere was not by choice. He didn't leave, he was shown the door. Entering the lockout, the only goalie the Wings had under contract was Legace.

4. Hasek signed in Ottawa only because Muckler was their GM. If they didn't make an offer, he's out of hockey three years ago.


And Higgy, as far as the Columbus talk - I believe it's BS. Dom told his agent not to even bother listening to offers. That's a quote from the record. No way in hell he'd play in C-bus.

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05-11-2007, 11:33 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by doublejack View Post
You complained in an earlier post about people's recollections. Yours though seems to be quite problematic.

1. Yes, Hasek retired. First, the Wings knew in advance of the trade with Buffalo that this was a real possibility - Dom leaving if they won the cup. But who could blame the guy? He had enough of the NHL (or so he thought) and didn't need any money.
Great, fine, and fantastic. Does any of that imply he wouldn't do the exact same thing again?

Quote:
Secondly, he didn't pull a Barry Sanders. He let Kenny Holland know very early that summer, so Holland could fill the hole. That's a class act, he didn't leave anyone hanging.
Great, fine and fantastic. Does any of that imply he wouldn't do the same thing again?

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Thirdly, how the hell is this being disloyal?!?
Who called it disloyal? I said the guy would leave the Wings in a heartbeat. He would. He has. What's changed between then and now to make him more committed to Detroit than he was before? Call it whatever you want, the name attached to the action is entirely peripheral to my believing the action is entirely likely.

Quote:
2. When Hasek decided to come back, the Wings had an option year on his contract. Holland didn't have to exercise it.
Yeah... because what you really want to do when your goal is to win a Cup is to let a Cup-winning goalie walk... and almost certainly to a competitor.

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3. Following the 03-04 season, Holland decided to let both Hasek and Joseph go without an offer. So, Hasek signing elsehwere was not by choice. He didn't leave, he was shown the door. Entering the lockout, the only goalie the Wings had under contract was Legace.
Hmm. Let me think. Was there any Hasek-related friction that year? Questions about injuries, willingness to play, etc? So much so that the guy actually gave back a part of his contract, not something that's going to happen if there's not some fire to go with the smoke?

Besides, how do you know Hasek leaving was not by his choice? Were you there when Holland had to call security to eject him from the lockerroom or something?

Quote:
4. Hasek signed in Ottawa only because Muckler was their GM. If they didn't make an offer, he's out of hockey three years ago.
Hey, you're the guy who can apparently read Hasek's mind, DJ. Far be it from me to question that.

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05-11-2007, 11:37 AM
  #75
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I'm sorry, but you are the one portraying a revisionist history here. Dom didn't leave the Wings after 2002. He freaking retired.
Just read those last two sentences back to yourself a few times, DJ.

What, was he still playing for the Wings after he retired? I must have missed that. Were they sneaking him on to the ice in a Joseph jersey or something?

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At that point he just didn't want to play anymore. Yes, it did leave the Wings in a bad spot. But such things happen. If Dom didn't feel like playing, he wasn't going to be himself. In that case, it's better to have him walk away.
Stupendous. Why wouldn't he do that exact same thing again this year?

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