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Rumor: Phoneix 1st for Montoya and Prucha

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Old
05-12-2007, 11:23 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Richter35 View Post
if that trade happens, i dont think nyr will have too many fans left over... so first we let wayne poach our gm, and then we hand over two of our best young players for a top pick in what has been described as an average draft? pass.
as a flyers fan i hope nyr makes that trade...montoya alone would be sufficient...

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05-12-2007, 12:54 PM
  #77
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That is a massive massive overpayment for that pick.
As long as they have Lundqvist, does Rangers Management really think Montoya is too high a price for a star-ish young forward?

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05-12-2007, 01:02 PM
  #78
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Staal for Cammalleri would be a decent deal. The Rangers lack quality centres - they've been in need for a long long time. Nylander has been doing a good job but the Rangers have no other good centres. I'd be hesitant of course, it would take a good amount of thinking.
Wow..thank god your not our GM...


We can go out and sign a good center, why trade away our best defensive prospect and a top defensive prospect in the entire league for one?

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05-12-2007, 01:04 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/ho...easonings.html



The source is OK, but notice that he says "rumblings", not a "high source in the NYR org" or something like that.

But thought Id share it, been slow on the rumor front lately...
Coyotes get two YOUNG players, one NHL proven and one on the cusp...for an 18 y/o.

Rangers, if they move players of that ilk can, and should, get a proven younger (in/entering his prime) NHLer, not another prospect. Their pipeline is already impressive and a team that was easily within grasp of playing in the Conference Finals this year is looking to take the next step near-term, not giving up NHL talent in exchange for collecting more teenage bodies that will benefit them in 2012.


Last edited by Trottier: 05-12-2007 at 01:12 PM.
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05-12-2007, 01:09 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
Coyotes get two YOUNG players one, NHL proven and one on the cusp...for an 18 y/o.

Rangers, if they move players of that ilk can, and should, get a proven younger NHLer, not another prospect. Their pipeline is already impressive and a team that was easily within grasp of playing in the Conference Finals this year is looking to take the next step near-term, not giving up NHL talent in exchange for collecting more teenage bodies that will benefit them in 2012.
Exactly. I'm perfectly fine with moving Prucha and Montoya for a younger (IE 22-28) year old player. I wouldn't want to move Prucha for a pick right now at all.

Montoya I could easily see being moved for a high draft pick and, again, I'm not really that opposed to it. He has no real future here it appears and I think it could really bolster the Rangers future if they could acquire a Pat Kane, Kyle Turris, or JvR for Montoya. While I don't think either of those 3 guys are as skilled as Montoya is, I would pull the trigger on a deal for a top 3 or 4 pick with him as the main course.

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05-13-2007, 02:52 AM
  #81
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its a rumor from Newsday, that thing is just like a tabloid. They make up rumors just to do it. Coyotes would be insane to trade the pick for anything less than proven players. Montoya is not a proven player.

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05-13-2007, 04:48 AM
  #82
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I see a couple of holes in the logic of this rumor.

1) Phoenix has no GM to negotiate such a trade. I would be surprised if the candidates are already working the phones to build the team the way they want just in case they get the job. No one would take such an inquiry seriously.

2) When guys like Kipper go for a 2nd round pick, it would seem that Montoya's value would be at a similar level. You can always debate values in a trade, but there have been many goalies with high potential that got traded for 2nd rounders, I'm not sure you would see a highly touted goalie with no NHL experience go for more value than a 2nd rounder. Not to deduct Prucha from the equation, but I am saying that a 3rd overall for Prucha, Montoya and prospect is probably a fair deal.

From the Coyotes perspective, I think it could be a smart move to make if it helps solidify their goaltending and adds some offensive scoring depth. They don't have the assets to add anything to sweeten the deal unless NY wants to take on a salary like Morris or Boynton which might be mutually beneficial.

For NY it seems like a mild risk because 3rd overall will get you a heck of a player and Montoya is getting lost behind Lundqvist. It's the classic example of dealing from a position of strength.

Here's the deal that I could see:

3rd overall (PHX), 24th overall (DAL), Boynton for Prucha, Montoya, prospect, 15th overall (NYR)

The Coyotes leverage their 2nd first rounder from Dallas to move up a number of spaces in the deal and get some added organizational depth.

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05-13-2007, 09:37 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Blow it Up View Post
1) Phoenix has no GM to negotiate such a trade
Sure they do.Gretzky is the GM.The next GM in name only will answer to Wayne just like Fletcher did and then Barnett did

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05-13-2007, 10:08 AM
  #84
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Yeah, Gretzky practically said to the East Valley Tribune that they needed a GM before the draft, not to make the picks, but since they will consider moving their "picks for other picks, moving up in the draft or moving down in the draft".

Nobody have said deals are on the table. Though my guess, and this is only speculating, is that Phoenix is in a hurry to become respectable. They can't continue like they have, its allot easier to stay up then to get up. Ask any team that have been down for a long time, it doesn't come by itself unless you can string together a bunch of 1st overals...

One asset they got is the 3rd overall. Make the pick and it will benefit you in 3 years, make a trade and it will benefit you right away. Thats how it is.

Even without a GM, its not unlikely that someone like Gretz could spread the word that they might think about making a trade, would defenitly not hurt them to do so. And since the rumor is comming out of NY, its not too far fetched to belive that the Rangers heard about it, and considers it. The names Prucha and Montoya, are probably just speculation.

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05-13-2007, 12:07 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blow it Up View Post
I see a couple of holes in the logic of this rumor.

1) Phoenix has no GM to negotiate such a trade. I would be surprised if the candidates are already working the phones to build the team the way they want just in case they get the job. No one would take such an inquiry seriously.

2) When guys like Kipper go for a 2nd round pick, it would seem that Montoya's value would be at a similar level. You can always debate values in a trade, but there have been many goalies with high potential that got traded for 2nd rounders, I'm not sure you would see a highly touted goalie with no NHL experience go for more value than a 2nd rounder. Not to deduct Prucha from the equation, but I am saying that a 3rd overall for Prucha, Montoya and prospect is probably a fair deal.

From the Coyotes perspective, I think it could be a smart move to make if it helps solidify their goaltending and adds some offensive scoring depth. They don't have the assets to add anything to sweeten the deal unless NY wants to take on a salary like Morris or Boynton which might be mutually beneficial.

For NY it seems like a mild risk because 3rd overall will get you a heck of a player and Montoya is getting lost behind Lundqvist. It's the classic example of dealing from a position of strength.

Here's the deal that I could see:

3rd overall (PHX), 24th overall (DAL), Boynton for Prucha, Montoya, prospect, 15th overall (NYR)


The Coyotes leverage their 2nd first rounder from Dallas to move up a number of spaces in the deal and get some added organizational depth.
As a yote fan, I don't do this trade, I don't think it's fair value-wise and just too many assets being moved in one trade.

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05-13-2007, 12:59 PM
  #86
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As a yote fan, I don't do this trade, I don't think it's fair value-wise and just too many assets being moved in one trade.
No way I do that deal, either.

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05-14-2007, 10:07 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
Wow..thank god your not our GM...


We can go out and sign a good center, why trade away our best defensive prospect and a top defensive prospect in the entire league for one?

81 34 46 80 - Cammalleri had a good year, he's 24. You're underrating him. But yeah, I said Id think about it.

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05-14-2007, 10:17 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by ssj335 View Post
81 34 46 80 - Cammalleri had a good year, he's 24. You're underrating him. But yeah, I said Id think about it.
It's not that he is underating him, it's just that Staal has #1 shutdown defenseman written all over him. Personally I would take a Pronger/Blake/Bourque over a number 1 center anyday of the week. A guy like Staal will probably end up playing 30 minutes a night for years to come.

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05-14-2007, 10:28 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Blow it Up View Post
2) When guys like Kipper go for a 2nd round pick, it would seem that Montoya's value would be at a similar level. You can always debate values in a trade, but there have been many goalies with high potential that got traded for 2nd rounders, I'm not sure you would see a highly touted goalie with no NHL experience go for more value than a 2nd rounder.
Kipper was an entirely different situation. SJ already had Nabakov & Toskala, and Kipper was the #3. He wasn't going to make it through waivers, so SJ had to make a deal and get what they could for a very talented, but recently struggling goalie. It was a "everything must go sale", which is why the return was only a 2nd round DP.

I could mention other goalies that went for 2nd round DP's (Cloutier, Noronen, etc), and they would also have no bearing on Montoya's market value. Montoya is a blue-chip prospect right now, and to compare him to Leneveu is craziness (and I like Leneveu). In a draft year where there isn't a goalie likely drafted in the 1st round (as I understand it), I wouldn't be surprised at all to see someone move an early 1st round DP for Montoya. It all depends on the other GM's opinion of him.

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05-14-2007, 10:44 AM
  #90
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Technically, it turned out to be Kipper for Vlasic.

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05-14-2007, 11:47 AM
  #91
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There is no chance in hell we deal Montoya AND Prucha for a pick.

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05-14-2007, 02:06 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Coyote_Fan View Post
its a rumor from Newsday, that thing is just like a tabloid. They make up rumors just to do it. Coyotes would be insane to trade the pick for anything less than proven players. Montoya is not a proven player.
First of all, Newsday is not like a tabloid at all, it's actually one of the most respected local newspapers in the country. Second, Newsday always assumes that it's readers can take the rumors with a grain of salt, because "rumblings" usually means "hear-say". They're not like eklund saying they have high up sources, it's just rumblings. It's not Newsday's problem if you take them too seriously, after all, it is just the Rangers' blog.

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05-14-2007, 02:09 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
I could mention other goalies that went for 2nd round DP's (Cloutier, Noronen, etc), and they would also have no bearing on Montoya's market value. Montoya is a blue-chip prospect right now, and to compare him to Leneveu is craziness (and I like Leneveu). In a draft year where there isn't a goalie likely drafted in the 1st round (as I understand it), I wouldn't be surprised at all to see someone move an early 1st round DP for Montoya. It all depends on the other GM's opinion of him.
LeNeveu is mainly brought up as the latest of another highly-touted goalie who hasnt made it for Phoenix, rather than a direct comparision at this point. He also does not compare unfavorably to Montoya's own track record in college or the AHL. Given that Phoenix's highly rated goalies mostly have busted and that our best goalies have been Khabibulin (9th rounder), Burke (traded for Shtalenkov (a 5th rounder) and one of our better backups Esche ( a 6th rounder).. is it any wonder Phoenix fans arent keen to trade the highest pick Phoenix has ever had (3rd overall!) for another highly touted yet unproven goalie? Especially when our biggest weakness has been that elite forward generally found in the very high picks, seemingly always out of our reach.

Many top notch goalies have been acquired cheaply or drafted late.. not so easily done with top forwards or defensemen.

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05-14-2007, 02:42 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Gwyddbwyll View Post
Many top notch goalies have been acquired cheaply or drafted late.. not so easily done with top forwards or defensemen.
Here's some pretty telling numbers:

06-07 All-Stars by draft round/position

position/round 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 NA
Forwards 19 1 1 1 2
Dmen 4 3 1 1 1 1 1
Goalies 2 3 1

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05-14-2007, 04:20 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Gwyddbwyll View Post
LeNeveu is mainly brought up as the latest of another highly-touted goalie who hasnt made it for Phoenix, rather than a direct comparision at this point. He also does not compare unfavorably to Montoya's own track record in college or the AHL. Given that Phoenix's highly rated goalies mostly have busted and that our best goalies have been Khabibulin (9th rounder), Burke (traded for Shtalenkov (a 5th rounder) and one of our better backups Esche ( a 6th rounder).. is it any wonder Phoenix fans arent keen to trade the highest pick Phoenix has ever had (3rd overall!) for another highly touted yet unproven goalie? Especially when our biggest weakness has been that elite forward generally found in the very high picks, seemingly always out of our reach.

Many top notch goalies have been acquired cheaply or drafted late.. not so easily done with top forwards or defensemen.
I think the important point is that most goalies bust. Everyone is always all fired up about a guy within their organization that is dominating in Junior, or overseas, but in the long run, most of these guys just don't make it at the NHL level. If you don't want to deal for a guy that looks like he's putting it all together, that's fine, but the likely course of events is that you'll be suffering through guys past their prime (CuJo), or subpar goaltending (Boucher, etc.).

I'm not saying that the Montoya deal is a good one or not, just that AM appears to be making significant progress, and I would consider him a blue-chip prospect. I realize there are no guarantees w/ goalies and it's very possible that AM will still bust. But if you want a guarantee put your money in a FDIC insured bank and be happy w/ 1% interest.

Bottom line (IMO), the Yotes need to upgrade in goal. Gretz has no confidence in Leneveu, so he's not the awnser (at least in PHO). Possible options:
1) Sign a UFA
2) Trade for a #1
3) Trade for a back-up that might be a #1
4) Trade for a prospect and give him a chance to be #1.
5) Bring someone up from within the organization

My take:
1) Risky, as you're likely going to have to overpay whomever you sign (see Khabibulin). Also risky as many of the options are guys who I'd be comfortable with going into a season as my #1 (Aebischer for example).
2) Possible to get someone like Fernandez before the 7/1 UFA deadline if MINN thinks they can resign Backstrom. Not a ton of other options, unless Gretz like someone like Gerber.
3) Trade for a guy like Toskala (not likely in the division, but someone like him) or Bryzgalov.
4) Very high risk plan. Big boom or bust, so PHO's GM would really have to like whomever they were acquiring.
5) Don't think that there's anybody else ready within the organization.

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05-14-2007, 06:53 PM
  #96
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I agree with those of you who said the Rangers should deal those guys for current proven young NHL talent, not draft picks. I like Prucha but wouldn't mind seeing him packaged with Montoya, but it has to bring back a player with NHL experience.

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05-14-2007, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
Bottom line (IMO), the Yotes need to upgrade in goal. Gretz has no confidence in Leneveu, so he's not the awnser (at least in PHO). Possible options:
1) Sign a UFA
2) Trade for a #1
3) Trade for a back-up that might be a #1
4) Trade for a prospect and give him a chance to be #1.
5) Bring someone up from within the organization

My take:
1) Risky, as you're likely going to have to overpay whomever you sign (see Khabibulin). Also risky as many of the options are guys who I'd be comfortable with going into a season as my #1 (Aebischer for example).
2) Possible to get someone like Fernandez before the 7/1 UFA deadline if MINN thinks they can resign Backstrom. Not a ton of other options, unless Gretz like someone like Gerber.
3) Trade for a guy like Toskala (not likely in the division, but someone like him) or Bryzgalov.
4) Very high risk plan. Big boom or bust, so PHO's GM would really have to like whomever they were acquiring.
5) Don't think that there's anybody else ready within the organization.
Agree with most of the comments in principle, the fundamental problem is that AM doesn't address the immediate need. The above points are largely still valid even if we trade for him. There's a possibility he could be the answer in a couple years, but not 07-08. Some additional responses:

1) An alternate and cheaper route than Giguere would be to sign a Thibault, Garon, Aesbischer or Theodore (after Col buys him out) for a season and test out Lenny at #2. Even with a trade for AM the Yotes are lacking a #1 next year and would as a result have to both sign a #1 short term and trade both Lenny and Tellqvist assuming AM gets the #2 slot. Backstrom might also slip through to July 1st, it's not a done deal Minnesota can accomplish what they want to do (sign Backstrom & trade Manny).

2) Low risk for Fernandez, the question is the cost. Would be absolutely happy to have him if it didn't mortgage a youth rebuilding movement.

3) Possible, but especially questionable as the two of the top backups approaching RFA are in the division. Then again it's been a while since the Yotes have been competetive.

4 & 5) Highly unlikely.


Color me wrong, but the offseason goalie situation strikes me as much more of a buyers' market than a sellers' market this year. There are 3-4 teams very interested in a new #1 and a couple teams that could end up looking for one. Two desirable players will hit the market--Giguere and Backstrom(or)Fernandezand some other retreads will be available like the players mentioned in (1).

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05-15-2007, 01:33 AM
  #98
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wow Phoenix is screwing themselves pretty good. Prucha will just be another failure added to Phoenix. Career 2nd line winger and number 1 goalie, for future superstar foward? I dont see it happening.

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05-15-2007, 05:53 AM
  #99
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wow Phoenix is screwing themselves pretty good. Prucha will just be another failure added to Phoenix. Career 2nd line winger and number 1 goalie, for future superstar foward? I dont see it happening.
So you already know Prucha will be a failure (can 2nd line winger be considered failure for a guy like Prucha?), you know Montoya will be a number 1 (ie: Dan Blackburn, you never know), and you know whoever is selected with Phoenix's 1st rounder is a future superstar?

I hope you simply forgot the sarcasm smiley there.

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05-15-2007, 10:22 AM
  #100
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So you already know Prucha will be a failure (can 2nd line winger be considered failure for a guy like Prucha?), you know Montoya will be a number 1 (ie: Dan Blackburn, you never know), and you know whoever is selected with Phoenix's 1st rounder is a future superstar?

I hope you simply forgot the sarcasm smiley there.
obviously not...this is hfboards....obviously a 18 year old is more established than either montoya or prucha. honestly, a terrible deal..but for the rangers. if phoenix gets offered this and turns it down, you now know why they are not a good franchise.

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