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Why Should The Habs Actively Seek Quebecers?

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Old
05-11-2007, 07:20 AM
  #51
Athlétique_Canadien
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I think we need more French guys. Look at the last game of the season we lost to Toronto. It was all French guys scoring for the Habs

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05-11-2007, 07:39 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATHLÉTIQUE_CANADIEN View Post
I think we need more French guys. Look at the last game of the season we lost to Toronto. It was all French guys scoring for the Habs
The french players aren't exactly our stars to be fair.

But instead of Murray, Downey, etc. I think it would be a good idea to take a chance with some Quebecers. Look at Bégin and Bouillon. I know they didn't have good seasons, but both gave us a few good seasons before this year stricly because of hard work, while being pretty much devoid of talent.

But I'm not sure signing a UFA for a few millions would be a good idea thought, since the pressure on Quebecers except marginal players is pretty high here, If Kovalev was from Quebec, he would have lived a nightmare this year.

And if the Habs sign Brière, considering how awful is our defense at getting the puck out of the zone, he might make 30 points less next year even if he plays as well. So the pressure might be hard on him if he makes 6M/year.

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05-11-2007, 07:48 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by ATHLÉTIQUE_CANADIEN View Post
I think we need more French guys. Look at the last game of the season we lost to Toronto. It was all French guys scoring for the Habs




As long as they aren't Russian (sorry Markov).

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05-11-2007, 07:52 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
None?



I like the smell of hyperbole in the morning.
yes hyperbole, there haven't been too many French Canadians rushing to play for Montreal.

Bouillon was overpaid, and he stayed in Montreal. Dandenault overpaid and came to Montreal, and plucked off waivers.

I don't deny that its good to have local talent, it helps but you need the right players, and for years now, the "right" players, and not just French Canadian ones, haven't chosen Montreal.

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05-11-2007, 07:53 AM
  #55
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Oh well, we do have Latendresse

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05-11-2007, 07:57 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brownman View Post
I think that's pushing it a little bit. Just how many young kids even get to see their heroes in person let alone talk to them?

All my life, I was a boy hundreds of kilometres from the city of Montreal and consequently the Canadiens and there was never any second-guessing my allegiance to the team or the game even though I was forced to watch all Canadiens hockey on SRC (all the while not knowing a lick of French until grade 4). True passion for sport is blind to language and culture simply because sport itself (in this case, hockey) is the truly universal language.
That is so true. I grew up 30 kilometers from Toronto, have been bombarded with Leaf propoganda all my life and met 5 Leafs players in person but for as long as I can remember loved the Habs. Even though I was teased growing up I didn't care the CH was in my heart.

Excellent post!

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05-11-2007, 07:58 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
It's not like Toronto-born players are rushing to go play with the Leafs too. Look, players that have grown in a particular organisation feels at home there.

As far as needing Quebecers to play for the Habs or not, I think for most Quebecers the Habs are our national team. I'm not talking about politics and all that crap. The Habs are our pride and joy and contrary to other provinces Team Canada will never mean as much as wearing the blue, blanc, rouge on the seventh game of the Stanley Cup final. Culturaly it's important for the Habs to represents us the best.
Well i don't hear many people from Toronto talking about pride for playing for their language, culture and home town. Its different in that we hear this frequently from French Canadians, yet the good ones rarely want to play in their home town. Again, if its such a great thing for French Canadians, why do so few want to play in Montreal, cause for me if something was that important to me, i'd be in a hab jersey as soon as i hit UFA.

Personally i think you over-exaggerating just how important it is to play for Montreal as a French Canadian. Maybe on certain levels for fans and certain players, but overall, to the majority it barely factors in.

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Old
05-11-2007, 08:03 AM
  #58
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A lot of good arguements to be made for chossing local talent (regardless of race, creed, language etc). But I still think the character of the player has a lot to do with how much he'll deliver. Some players are not meant for the spot light and thrusting them into it because they are "local boys" may have an adverse effect on them.

Also, I'm a believer that you sometimes have to go just a little beyond the "if both are of equal talent" evaluation. The local boy may be a bit behind, but who will progress better in the environment they will be playing. Who will adapt better? Again it comes down to a better understanding of the player.

I personally would love to see more local talent on our team, but like everything else, it has to make sense and it must be with the ultimate goal of making the team MORE COMPETITIVE and not to sell seats or that it may have an adverse effect on seat sales. Once player personnel decisions are made for that reason (i.e. Chelios, Svboda, Corson) then the team is in trouble.

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05-11-2007, 08:30 AM
  #59
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The ownership and management of the Canadiens are (or at least they should be) concerned with winning above all other things. I think the marketing angle to Ice Poutine's question is a red herring. The Canadiens do not have any difficulties putting fans in the stands and merchandise on their backs when they ice a competitive team. In a perfect world the Habs would have a French-Canadian star (or Quebecer if you prefer) leading them to the Stanley Cup. Absent those idyllic conditions, the team’s focus is on being competitive/winning without reference to nationality or language.

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05-11-2007, 08:30 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash13 View Post
Well i don't hear many people from Toronto talking about pride for playing for their language, culture and home town.
I think that more than a few players signed with Toronto because they were Leafs fans when they were young. And Americans tend to sign with US teams.

It's the Habs for christ sake. I don't think I'm the only one who would kill to play for them.

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05-11-2007, 08:43 AM
  #61
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Yeah, (altought he might have said French-Canadians) about the draft last year or the year before. It's probably from a HF article too. I could look it up. but I'm la-zy.
smoking the pipe will have that affect

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05-11-2007, 08:45 AM
  #62
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Get French Canadians? There are hardly any left in the NHL. The numbers are down to 55 for the entire league, which is an average of less than two per team. The habs already have 5 and maybe two more with Cote and Ferland getting reserve spots. That's as much as you can get.

The CKAC / 100% crowd can scream all they want but there are hardly any left that play in the NHL, and the good ones have no interest in coming to MTL.

So watcha gonna do?

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05-11-2007, 08:56 AM
  #63
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I think it's very important to have a few however just not anybody just because they are french.We need good players.I love Begin and Lapierre but we just cannot have our roster full of those types of players.

This will never change,me as a fan I just wanna see the Habs win the stanley cup,French,Russian,Swedes,I don't care were they come from I just wanna see them win and have a great product on the ice.

Some people I work with on the other hand(French People) tell me I don't care if we don't win 1 single game all year but the team as to be full of french players.That to me is not a real fan,but there are alot of people like that and it really pisses me off

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05-11-2007, 09:04 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
I think it's very important to have a few however just not anybody just because they are french.We need good players.I love Begin and Lapierre but we just cannot have our roster full of those types of players.

This will never change,me as a fan I just wanna see the Habs win the stanley cup,French,Russian,Swedes,I don't care were they come from I just wanna see them win and have a great product on the ice.

Some people I work with on the other hand(French People) tell me I don't care if we don't win 1 single game all year but the team as to be full of french players.That to me is not a real fan,but there are alot of people like that and it really pisses me off
I seriously doubt those idiots are representative of the majority of Quebecers. I can't imagine many people would be as ******** as them.

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05-11-2007, 09:11 AM
  #65
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It's simple, french speaking Quebecers identify themselves with our Quebec base culture and language, that's why we, and players alike (unlike some urban legends tht says the opposite), wants Quebecers on the team... what's the problem here?

Most of english speaking canadians will cheer for Ottawa during the playoffs because "they want the cup back in Canada". Why is this different from our need to have Quebecers with the habs. We identify with french-speaking player (Quebecers, but French and Swiss to) as much as canadian identify with canadian players or teams.

It seems that it's always bad when our nationalism/patriotism is involve but there's never any problem when it's canadian or american...

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Old
05-11-2007, 09:17 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by lhf1 View Post
I seriously doubt those idiots are representative of the majority of Quebecers. I can't imagine many people would be as ******** as them.
I tell them the same thing.How can you say that, but they really are serious in the end and that scares me.I tell them to stop listening to CKAC and stop watching 110%

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Old
05-11-2007, 09:19 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
It's simple, french speaking Quebecers identify themselves with our Quebec base culture and language, that's why we, and players alike (unlike some urban legends tht says the opposite), wants Quebecers on the team... what's the problem here?

Most of english speaking canadians will cheer for Ottawa during the playoffs because "they want the cup back in Canada". Why is this different from our need to have Quebecers with the habs. We identify with french-speaking player (Quebecers, but French and Swiss to) as much as canadian identify with canadian players or teams.

It seems that it's always bad when our nationalism/patriotism is involve but there's never any problem when it's canadian or american...
So you wouldn't mind having a team full of players like Begin and Lapierre?

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05-11-2007, 09:34 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
So you wouldn't mind having a team full of players like Begin and Lapierre?
Where did you get the idea that this is the point of the post you are anwering to?
Saying that a team should try to have local players isn't remotely the same as saying that a team should be ONLY be made of local players.

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05-11-2007, 09:35 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
It's not like Toronto-born players are rushing to go play with the Leafs too. Look, players that have grown in a particular organisation feels at home there.
That's not a fair comparison, IMO. No region in the NHL has the same apparent craving for local talent as Montreal does.

Toronto and Montreal are entirely different cities in entirely different provinces...they're like different worlds entirely. When I was in Montreal, I felt like I was on a different continent.

The only things Toronto and Montreal share in common are zealous hockey fans and ****** weather.

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05-11-2007, 09:37 AM
  #70
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I think that it is good that the Habs actively seek Quebecers. I believe they are doing a good job of that within the current draft formula. The fan base in Quebec is mostly french speaking so it helps when there are some french Canadiens on the team.

I've been watching Team Canada at the WHC, sure wish they had drafted Lombardi, who is Canada's leading scorer at the tournament .

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05-11-2007, 09:44 AM
  #71
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Best Player Available.

I don't care if it's a Mongolian Transvestite. If they are the best player available, I want them drafted onto my team.

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05-11-2007, 09:49 AM
  #72
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So, what's the current Quebecois population in the NHL, anyway? 10%? Maybe 20 out of every 200 guys drafted into the league?

The Habs have drafted like 10 Quebecois of their last 40 players (no point in going back to previous management regimes, really). That's 25%.

And of the guys they bring into the organization outside of the draft, you've always got a pretty decent percentage of J.P.Cotes, Mathieu Birons, Francis Lemieuxs, Cedrick Desjardinses, Yann Danis', etc. Whenever I go to the rookie tourneys you usually see a decent little cast of tryouts handed out with a definite Quebecois flavour (like Frechette, Picard-Hooper, Mouton, Joanisse, St.Denis, Petit this past one).

So basically, we probably draft at approximately double the average NHL rate for Quebecois. When it comes to free agent signings and camp invites, the factor grows significantly. Probably triple or quadruple the average NHL rate, at least.

I'm pretty satisfied with that. Obviously one could go even further down the path of showing home-town favouritism. But I think there's probably a cutoff at some point where you start to get yourself in trouble. Right now, the Habs are balancing the desire to keep that local flavour prominent with the desire to also be as competitive as they can, and I think they're doing a good job of it.

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Old
05-11-2007, 10:02 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Transported Upstater View Post
The only things Toronto and Montreal share in common IS NOTHING.

fixed it for you

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05-11-2007, 10:11 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
I think it's very important to have a few however just not anybody just because they are french.We need good players.I love Begin and Lapierre but we just cannot have our roster full of those types of players.

This will never change,me as a fan I just wanna see the Habs win the stanley cup,French,Russian,Swedes,I don't care were they come from I just wanna see them win and have a great product on the ice.

Some people I work with on the other hand(French People) tell me I don't care if we don't win 1 single game all year but the team as to be full of french players.That to me is not a real fan,but there are alot of people like that and it really pisses me off
Despite the changing realities of the hockey world, I assume some of these people also think that the more Quebeckers on the team, the better the team. That's certainly what I'm hearing from a couple of media clowns...

I believe this thinking stems from the fact that Habs dynasties in the past (like the 70's) had more Quebeckers and they were winning cups... While we're barely making the playoffs lately. It reminds me of Mussolini initiating a tree planting program in Italy to bring back Rome's greatness (because there were more trees back then and Rome was conquering the world).

Let's take the 70's dynasty...There were more Quebeckers:
1) Because there was a higher percentage of Quebeckers in the league (there were no Americans or Europeans back then).
2) Because there was no universal draft before 1970 and Frank Selke had established a farm system full of local Quebec players that had signed C-Forms (which was fully abolished ar. 1970). This farm system had the cream of the crop in terms of Quebec players.

Why did they win:
1) Because the 70's dynasty still had players that were signed on C-Forms (Lemaire, Savard, etc...).
2) Because Sam Pollock flipped some of the extra C-Form players to get draft picks (esp. with expansion teams that needed players fast). That netted them players like Lafleur, Shutt and Tremblay.

Beside the on-ice performance of the team, the 70's dynasty was built by a series of shrewd moves by Frank Selke and Sam Pollock. If we want to win today, we need similar strokes of genius from our GM... not 15 Quebeckers.


Last edited by Erik Estrada: 05-11-2007 at 10:17 AM.
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Old
05-11-2007, 10:25 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
It's simple, french speaking Quebecers identify themselves with our Quebec base culture and language, that's why we, and players alike (unlike some urban legends tht says the opposite), wants Quebecers on the team... what's the problem here?

Most of english speaking canadians will cheer for Ottawa during the playoffs because "they want the cup back in Canada". Why is this different from our need to have Quebecers with the habs. We identify with french-speaking player (Quebecers, but French and Swiss to) as much as canadian identify with canadian players or teams.

It seems that it's always bad when our nationalism/patriotism is involve but there's never any problem when it's canadian or american...

Perfectly said. Good job.

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