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Why Should The Habs Actively Seek Quebecers?

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05-11-2007, 10:26 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Artie View Post
fixed it for you
Are you saying that Toronto and Montreal have good weather?

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05-11-2007, 10:38 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Transported Upstater View Post
Are you saying that Toronto and Montreal have good weather?
Montreal has good weather no matter what the weather...cuz it's MONTREAL
Toronto is Toronto enough said.


this thread is about to get derailed

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05-11-2007, 10:40 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Some people I work with on the other hand(French People) tell me I don't care if we don't win 1 single game all year but the team as to be full of french players.That to me is not a real fan,but there are alot of people like that and it really pisses me off
I've heard plenty of that too, but I think you missed the whole point. It's not really a case of wanting all french players.

Let's get this straight. Most of the past decade, and this year stands out, have been a real disgrace to this franchise... The people in the stands wear their sweater with more pride than those on the ice.

The patience is growing thin and people wants proud and fiercy Habs as they are themselves. This isn't the point of I don't care if we win or not it's more of a «If we are to still suck forever like that, I prefers having a bunch of french guy that will care, I can relate too and loose in dignity over the team of floaters we've had in the past.».

They're not hardcore hockey fans; What they see is what they get. They're not aware of HFBoards, prospect, Hamilton and junior league stuff. When you tell them about our promising future and prospects pool, the usual answer is «Yeah, yeah, they've been telling us that for years».

I think the french Habs fans are getting really bad and unjustified rep for wanting a team that honor the rich and cult-like heritage Le Club de Hockey Canadiens have.

I won't be the one who blame them.

French hockey joke

J'ai entendu dire que Hydro-Québec était interessé à acheter le Canadiens.
- Ça l'air qui veulent mettre des compteurs sur la glace.

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05-11-2007, 10:48 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by CoupeStanley View Post
I've heard plenty of that too, but I think you missed the whole point. It's not really a case of wanting all french players.

Let's get this straight. Most of the past decade, and this year stands out, have been a real disgrace to this franchise... The people in the stands wear their sweater with more pride than those on the ice.

The patience is growing thin and people wants proud and fiercy Habs as they are themselves. This isn't the point of I don't care if we win or not it's more of a «If we are to still suck forever like that, I prefers having a bunch of french guy that will care, I can relate too and loose in dignity over the team of floaters we've had in the past.».

They're not hardcore hockey fans; What they see is what they get. They're not aware of HFBoards, prospect, Hamilton and junior league stuff. When you tell them about our promising future and prospects pool, the usual answer is «Yeah, yeah, they've been telling us that for years».

I think the french Habs fans are getting really bad and unjustified rep for wanting a team that honor the rich and cult-like heritage Le Club de Hockey Canadiens have.

I won't be the one who blame them.

French hockey joke

J'ai entendu dire que Hydro-Québec était interessé à acheter le Canadiens.
- Ça l'air qui veulent mettre des compteurs sur la glace.
But the assumption there is that all quebec players would be proud to wear the Habs jersey. Bergeron and Gagne (just 2 examples) have said they hated the habs growing up. How much pride do you think they'd have wearing the CH.

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05-11-2007, 10:53 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Artie View Post
But the assumption there is that all quebec players would be proud to wear the Habs jersey. Bergeron and Gagne (just 2 examples) have said they hated the habs growing up. How much pride do you think they'd have wearing the CH.
They're is no place to hide if you are a quebecer playing for the Montreal Canadiens. Friends, family, relation, ex-girlfriend, ex-classmates. You just don't want to walk on the street in the summer and being asked day in and day out why the team sucked that bad this past seasons.

Besides, Patrick Roy hated the Habs too. Huge Nordiques fans right there. He didn't embarassed the sweater that much as I remember..

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05-11-2007, 10:56 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by CoupeStanley View Post
I've heard plenty of that too, but I think you missed the whole point. It's not really a case of wanting all french players.

Let's get this straight. Most of the past decade, and this year stands out, have been a real disgrace to this franchise... The people in the stands wear their sweater with more pride than those on the ice.

The patience is growing thin and people wants proud and fiercy Habs as they are themselves.
This isn't the point of I don't care if we win or not it's more of a «If we are to still suck forever like that, I prefers having a bunch of french guy that will care, I can relate too and loose in dignity over the team of floaters we've had in the past.».

They're not hardcore hockey fans; What they see is what they get. They're not aware of HFBoards, prospect, Hamilton and junior league stuff. When you tell them about our promising future and prospects pool, the usual answer is «Yeah, yeah, they've been telling us that for years».

I think the french Habs fans are getting really bad and unjustified rep for wanting a team that honor the rich and cult-like heritage Le Club de Hockey Canadiens have.

I won't be the one who blame them.

French hockey joke

J'ai entendu dire que Hydro-Québec était interessé à acheter le Canadiens.
- Ça l'air qui veulent mettre des compteurs sur la glace.
I think fans/media tend to mix values from era to era. The question of pride is a personal one. The universal draft , ufa friendly BBA, it's a different world. Lack of pride gets confused with not being good enough.

The Montreal Canadiens didn't spiral downwards from the mid 90's to the present beause a series of players didn't care. The players on the ice weren't good enough. If you want blame, point towards Molson and their front man, Corey. They refused to accept losses, maily due to the exchange rate at the time, and Montreal wasn't willing to keep their players. They mistakenly thought pride would be the answer, why else usher in Houle and Tremblay. Neither was qualified,but pride wasn't the issue. When you mix the political uneasiness the team was run by for awhile with unqualified management, throw in some bad luck, you get what we have now.

I don't think the average fan is xenophobic, stupid or even biased. I think that often they try to re-capture an era that's gone. It doesn't work that way anymore, and the effort to convince us otherwise, works against the team.

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05-11-2007, 11:01 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artie View Post
But the assumption there is that all quebec players would be proud to wear the Habs jersey. Bergeron and Gagne (just 2 examples) have said they hated the habs growing up. How much pride do you think they'd have wearing the CH.
Whereas an American like Higgins has had the CH tattooed on his heart from when he was a kid.

As you said, this really is not a quebec player thing. What's important is the right mix of players regardless of where there's from. You want guys that will show up to compete, and obviously have some talent. Not an easy task for management, but there it is. A few local boys that fit the bill are clearly desirable for the franchise in terms of marketability, but it's not an exclusive necessity.

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05-11-2007, 11:04 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by CoupeStanley View Post
They're is no place to hide if you are a quebecer playing for the Montreal Canadiens. Friends, family, relation, ex-girlfriend, ex-classmates. You just don't want to walk on the street in the summer and being asked day in and day out why the team sucked that bad this past seasons.

Besides, Patrick Roy hated the Habs too. Huge Nordiques fans right there. He didn't embarassed the sweater that much as I remember..

That's why I said earlier that a players character was more important than origins.
Roy had it, many don't. Having been born in Quebec will not assure pride in the jersey.

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05-11-2007, 11:06 AM
  #84
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To answer the OP in short:

Because there's a better chance of us getting better players by drafting French Quebecers. You're getting:

1. A player willing to play in N.A.
2. A player who's grown up dreaming of winning the Stanley Cup
3. A player who may very well be bursting with joy to play in Montreal
4. A player who speaks the language of Quebec
5. A player used to playing on N.A. ice surfaces

Now those 5 are not related to talent, but:

6. Scouting hockey's largest talent pool IN YOUR OWN BACKYARD should confer you the greatest advantage.

And it's #6 that this really turns on. I can't think of any reason why any club in the league ought to have better Quebec scouting that the Habs. Sure, players come from everywhere in Canada, and in the world even, but I'll bet that if the Habs spent their ENTIRE scouting budget in Quebec we would have a dynasty again in 5 years.

How? By picking those late-round guys that slip through and become stars, that's how. Happens all the time, and we're the one club positioned to have a great advantage there.

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05-11-2007, 11:12 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by bwoar View Post
To answer the OP in short:

Because there's a better chance of us getting better players by drafting French Quebecers. You're getting:

1. A player willing to play in N.A.
2. A player who's grown up dreaming of winning the Stanley Cup
3. A player who may very well be bursting with joy to play in Montreal
4. A player who speaks the language of Quebec
5. A player used to playing on N.A. ice surfaces

Now those 5 are not related to talent, but:

6. Scouting hockey's largest talent pool IN YOUR OWN BACKYARD should confer you the greatest advantage.

And it's #6 that this really turns on. I can't think of any reason why any club in the league ought to have better Quebec scouting that the Habs. Sure, players come from everywhere in Canada, and in the world even, but I'll bet that if the Habs spent their ENTIRE scouting budget in Quebec we would have a dynasty again in 5 years.

How? By picking those late-round guys that slip through and become stars, that's how. Happens all the time, and we're the one club positioned to have a great advantage there.

Problem with Quebec (and OHL and WHL) players is they're over scouted by every team in the league (Habs included). There are rarely any surprises anymore. If you want to have fun, go and look from which leagues the late round surprises come from. In the 80s you had some from the NCAA, now they're almost only from Europe (Datsyuk, Zetterberg, etc...).

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05-11-2007, 11:13 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by bwoar View Post
...How? By picking those late-round guys that slip through and become stars, that's how. Happens all the time, and we're the one club positioned to have a great advantage there.
Erm, like Markov, Sergei Kostitsyn, Grabovsky, etc? D'Agostini, maybe? Etc etc. All those late-round guys that slip through, they come from the Q? I did not know that.

Habs are doing it right. They do indeed pay more attention to the Q than any other franchise does. But it gets a bit absurd to suggest that they should ONLY look at the Q.

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05-11-2007, 11:15 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
I don't think the average fan is xenophobic, stupid or even biased. I think that often they try to re-capture an era that's gone. It doesn't work that way anymore, and the effort to convince us otherwise, works against the team.
I'm with you on that one, but how should we expect the average fans to endorsed that new era until it actually works?
What people see is : flying frenchman = 24 cups, no flying frenchman = bottom feeder for a decade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo View Post
Whereas an American like Higgins has had the CH tattooed on his heart from when he was a kid.

As you said, this really is not a quebec player thing.
Again, I agree. This is not really a Quebec things as much as it's a Habs pride things. Though, you'll have to admit that the percentage of Habs pride works in favour of the quebecois.

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05-11-2007, 11:15 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by CoupeStanley View Post
French hockey joke

J'ai entendu dire que Hydro-Québec était interessé à acheter le Canadiens.
- Ça l'air qui veulent mettre des compteurs sur la glace.
Tiens, j'étais pas au courant de ça.


... au courant... la pognes-tu?

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05-11-2007, 11:25 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Erm, like Markov, Sergei Kostitsyn, Grabovsky, etc? D'Agostini, maybe? Etc etc. All those late-round guys that slip through, they come from the Q? I did not know that.

Habs are doing it right. They do indeed pay more attention to the Q than any other franchise does. But it gets a bit absurd to suggest that they should ONLY look at the Q.
+1. Where was the lazy Russian Markov drafted. 160 something. Who was our first round choice that year ? A proud Quebecker that had the CH engraved in his psyche, Eric Chouinard. We know how that turned out...

You mention Sergei Kost and D'Agostini... Who was drafted ahead of them. A guy called Mathieu Aubin that's now rock bottom in the depth chart.


Last edited by Erik Estrada: 05-11-2007 at 11:35 AM.
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05-11-2007, 11:36 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
Most of english speaking canadians will cheer for Ottawa during the playoffs because "they want the cup back in Canada".
This isn't true at all; only the major networks and mainly fairweather fans hop on this bandwagon*. I admit that I said I'd rather the Sens win the cup over the other remaining teams (in another thread) just to stick it to Leaf fans but by no means am I actually rooting for them.

*Disclaimer: I'm not saying all people who hop on the bandwagon are fairweather fans, just most of them

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05-11-2007, 12:00 PM
  #91
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I don't care if it's a Mongolian Transvestite. If they are the best player available, I want them drafted onto my team.


Mongolian Transvestites can play hockey??

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05-11-2007, 12:23 PM
  #92
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Tiens, j'étais pas au courant de ça.


... au courant... la pognes-tu?
heh, that was horrible.

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05-11-2007, 12:42 PM
  #93
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I wouldnt mind having players like Vermette, Briere, Gagne, Lecavalier, St. Louis, Bergeron, Pomminville here but theres 30 teams in this league, and all these players are really hard to move from their team.

I dont feel need as much as the quebecers to have more french canadians but one thing i have to admit, theres not much quebecois in this league known for being lazy

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05-11-2007, 01:33 PM
  #94
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Quebeckers, Quebeckers and more Quebeckers.
At the heart of this issue is the old us vs them them.
The Habs are an NHL club team which drafts form all over the world.
BUT I bet if CANADA would offer a new prise all these issues would just go away.

ok here is my thing.

July 1st is Canada Day. Have a new Governor General Cup for the winner of this short tournament.
Every Province ices a team. Yes sir a TEAM QUEBEC.
A place where quebec hockey players can finally represent QUEBEC.
A chance to show the fleur de lis on the jersey and is this not exactly what the real argument is all about.

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05-11-2007, 01:40 PM
  #95
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The Habs don't need more Québécois, they need a superstar from Québec. When the Habs were winning cups their biggest star always was a French guy.

The Habs are, like someone said, like our national team in Quebec. Guys like Jean Béliveau and Guy Lafleur are like gods to us. Eck, Maurice Richard is one of the main reason why the "Revolution Tranquille" took place. Quebec, as a society, needs a hero like Richard was. We're lost as a people and our main "cultural" pride, the Habs, blow since 10 years. That's why people want French canadiens so badly on the team, that's why Guillaume Latendresse has been treated like a savior and, more importantly, that's why stupid shows like 110% exists.

We could say the same thing about other cultural aspects of our society. We are slowly losing our identity and become more and more "americanized" and that's sad. We love our nation (Québec) but we're not of the fighting kind. We'll lose everything guys like Richard made us realize we could have. We're losing our pride! The Habs are a symbole of Québec as a society and IMO that's why people make such a big deal out of having french players on the club.

To answer the OP: The Habs needs to have Québécois heroes because it will make them better in the long run. Like some people said when the Habs are good and we have a hero like Roy or Richard, we see more young boys playing hockey! More boys playing hockey means more talented boys reaching the big leagues which leads to the Habs being able to draft more GOOD local kids. Economicly it would be good not just for the Habs but for the Q and all the other business related to hockey. Having "heroes" as a way bigger impact then what we think.

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05-11-2007, 02:26 PM
  #96
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The number one reason why I want Quebecers with the habs is that each time that we face one quebec star or regular player (Brodeur, Lecavalier, St-Louis, Brière, Luongo...even Biron, Bergeron, M-A Bergeron...) he kills us! Always wanting to impress the one time he'll be playing at home in front of friends and family... I just can't take it anymore, they always play better against us... I'm not saying they'll play that good each of the 41 games they would play in the Bell Center, but at least they won't beat us!



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05-11-2007, 03:06 PM
  #97
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There's no reason for us to miss local talent. If we're going to draft a large beaver like Urquhart, why not take a Bergeron instead? Why not move up and get Parise like Lamoriello did (I know, he's not a Quebecker). Why not take some chances locally too? We should know every nook and cranny of the QMJHL. Vlasic should not be playing in San Jose. What's going on here?

The fans have simple desires and management has to start meeting them. Especially if they are going to turn out teams like this one year after year.

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05-11-2007, 03:09 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
The number one reason why I want Quebecers with the habs is that each time that we face one quebec star or regular player (Brodeur, Lecavalier, St-Louis, Brière, Luongo...even Biron, Bergeron, M-A Bergeron...) he kills us! Always wanting to impress the one time he'll be playing at home in front of friends and family... I just can't take it anymore, they always play better against us... I'm not saying they'll play that good each of the 41 games they would play in the Bell Center, but at least they won't beat us!



But most of them wanna beat us cause they grew up disliking us.Bergeron,Gagne,I know Luongo grew up an Oilers fan,they all wanna beat us.I just would love to see Vinny on this team

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05-11-2007, 03:10 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
But most of them wanna beat us cause they grew up disliking us.Bergeron,Gagne,I know Luongo grew up an Oilers fan,they all wanna beat us.I just would love to see Vinny on this team
When you pull an NHL sweater over your head, I'm pretty sure that changes very fast.

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05-11-2007, 03:11 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by raketheleaves View Post
There's no reason for us to miss local talent. If we're going to draft a large beaver like Urquhart, why not take a Bergeron instead? Why not move up and get Parise like Lamoriello did (I know, he's not a Quebecker). Why not take some chances locally too? We should know every nook and cranny of the QMJHL. Vlasic should not be playing in San Jose. What's going on here?

The fans have simple desires and management has to start meeting them. Especially if they are going to turn out teams like this one year after year.
We could have drafted Parisé, he was avaliable when we picked... Kostistyn. Getzlaf and Carter were avaliable too.

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