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So who is the next coach?

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Old
12-22-2003, 09:39 AM
  #1
dawgbone
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So who is the next coach?

I have laughed at alot of the crap I have read on this board the past couple of days...

Namely guys claiming that they or their friend could do a better job coaching.

Yet, not a single solution was brough forth by these future hall of fame coaches.

Which leads me to ask you this:

how do you fix it?

Enough crap about line combinations, as <b>anyone</b> can talk about pairing guys up. A coaching change isn't necessary for that. You make a coaching change to change the identity/philosophy of the team.

So lets hear them. Put your money where your mouth is.

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12-22-2003, 09:48 AM
  #2
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I respect that you have been the biggest supporter of MacT in this time of strife. I don't necessarily think that the coach is the team's biggest problem, but it could be.

I have heard twice via hearsay on Team 1260 that the players are losing their belief in MacT.(Again, grain of salt.) Then, the comments about Cross at practice with MacT having to tell them to "wake up."

I like MacT. I think that he has some great qualities as a coach. I don't think he should be fired. The only problem is, the players might.

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12-22-2003, 10:04 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
I have laughed at alot of the crap I have read on this board the past couple of days...

Namely guys claiming that they or their friend could do a better job coaching.

Yet, not a single solution was brough forth by these future hall of fame coaches.

Which leads me to ask you this:

how do you fix it?

Enough crap about line combinations, as <b>anyone</b> can talk about pairing guys up. A coaching change isn't necessary for that. You make a coaching change to change the identity/philosophy of the team.

So lets hear them. Put your money where your mouth is.
Go ahead and laugh, I've reached the point where I'm completely serious. Our team is that badly coached, and ANY system would be an improvement.

I believe what you're asking for has already been covered in the various winning attitude, accountability, and motivation discussions we've had on here in recent weeks.

Specific coaching candidates are more complicated, as interviews and such are required, plus availability issues, etc.


Last edited by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1: 12-23-2003 at 09:11 AM.
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12-22-2003, 10:07 AM
  #4
gpearson1968
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I hate to see the "ol guard" go but.....

If I had my drothers, and there was no 3-year contract with MacT, I'd seriously give Ted Nolan a look-see. He may not have the best record as a coach, but he does have decent credentials as a motivator. Realisticly, though, Lowe will not ever get rid of MacT, no matter what. Ce la vie.

Cheers,
Geoff.

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Old
12-22-2003, 10:48 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
Which leads me to ask you this:

how do you fix it?

Enough crap about line combinations, as <b>anyone</b> can talk about pairing guys up. A coaching change isn't necessary for that. You make a coaching change to change the identity/philosophy of the team.

So lets hear them. Put your money where your mouth is.
It's time for a philosophy change and so, using your logic, a coaching change.

Why a philosophy change? Because we aren't winning. After 2 ties Kevin Lowe says, as part of the Comrie issue, we seem to be playing better. MacT is on the radio saying the team is doing things well, they're just not winning.

In case someone doesn't understand winning is what it's all about.

I don't know whether MacT is too hard on the players, too easy, doesn't communicate, players have tuned him out. It doesn't matter. The only think that counts is winning and we aren't. You can't replace the team but you certainly can replace the coach.

 
Old
12-22-2003, 10:55 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpearson1968
If I had my drothers, and there was no 3-year contract with MacT, I'd seriously give Ted Nolan a look-see. He may not have the best record as a coach, but he does have decent credentials as a motivator. Realisticly, though, Lowe will not ever get rid of MacT, no matter what. Ce la vie.

Cheers,
Geoff.
I'd also love to see Nolan at the helm.

MacT needs to go, if only to change the atmosphere around Edmonton. Somebody has to be held accountable.

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12-22-2003, 11:28 AM
  #7
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This is a very interesting question, one I have mulled over a lot in the past month or so. In my opinion, we'd need a coach who is three things:

1 - A great motivator
2 - Able to get the most out of young players and skill players
3 - Is willing to take the heat off youngsters who might not be as able to directly deal with criticism

If I could have my pick of anyone, I'd say Bob Hartley hands down. He is the perfect coach for the current (and not-so-distant future) Oilers.

However, of all the coaches available right now, there are a couple guys I wouldn't mind.

The first is Terry Crisp. I never knew why the Flames got rid of him (he won them a Cup after all) and I liked what he did in his time with the Lightning. Crisper has the right skill set IMO, however his age and lack of Oiler affiliation may work against him.

The person who I would like to see most, perhaps brought on as an assistant to MacT and trained as the heir apparent is former Oiler and former Oiler coach Mark Lamb. He's currently an assistant in Dallas, but I think within a year he would be ready for the top job and I'd love it if it were here in Edmonton.

Hey, maybe Lowe will let Slats sign MacT away for a 5th round pick or something :-)

My 2 cents...

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12-22-2003, 11:33 AM
  #8
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With the apparent room in our budget, maybe we are looking at adding players when we should be looking at adding new coaching staff?

If we really do have 2+ million in room, that frees up enough cash for either a MacT buyout (unlikely) or a MacT "reassignment" to ass. coach or perhaps even head coach of the Runners? Lowe could then bring in another guy who could help out this young team. I agree with those who think MacT would be better with a more veteran team - he isn't much of a motivator I think, and a young team plays best when all jacked up on emotion and arrogance with nothing to lose. The last time we won anything, we had a coach who was technically inept, but knew how to get the guys fired up. We also had a lot more veteran players in the lineup as far as "go-to" guys.

This team needs three things:

1. A coach who can motivate like Slats used to
2. A coach who can adjust to game situations and make useful changes on the bench, be it a faceoff adjustment, a defensive matchup, or whatever. I can't count how many times I have seen Laraque out against another teams top guys, trying to keep up with them.
My suggestion for coach? Pierre Maguire. There'd be so much Blamo and Pow coming out of our room it would be ridiculous. Great motivator, skilled tactician. Don't know why he doesn't have a job really.
Finally. #3. Not so much a coach...

3. John Tonelli (in his prime of course, as a player)
-we need a guy like this DESPERATELY.
Kirk Muller would have been great three years ago.

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Old
12-22-2003, 11:56 AM
  #9
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Lets just get Scotty Bowman outta retirement

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12-22-2003, 12:05 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Go ahead and laugh, I've reached the point where I'm completely serious.

I believe what you're asking for has already been covered in the various winning attitude, accountability, and motivation discussions we've had on here in recent weeks.

Specific coaching candidates are more complicated, as interviews and such are required, plus availability issues, etc.
That is what you are going to fix, not how you are going to fix it.

Come on now, you are the one who thinks Mac-T is a crappy coach, so lets hear what you would do.

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12-22-2003, 12:19 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
I have laughed at alot of the crap I have read on this board the past couple of days...

Namely guys claiming that they or their friend could do a better job coaching.

Yet, not a single solution was brough forth by these future hall of fame coaches.

Which leads me to ask you this:

how do you fix it?

Enough crap about line combinations, as <b>anyone</b> can talk about pairing guys up. A coaching change isn't necessary for that. You make a coaching change to change the identity/philosophy of the team.

So lets hear them. Put your money where your mouth is.


I'd like to see Bob McCammon behind the bench once again. Except this time as the head coach. He was a very good head coach with Canucks in the early 90's and he was an assistant coach with the Oilers in the 90's. He would be an actual coach for the Oilers - not a former Oiler or former player for Slats. Bowman, Keenan, Burns - none of them are former NHL players yet they are all outstanding coaches. McCammon is currently a Pro Scout with the Red Wings.

As for line combos, I haven't seen MacT put Smyth and Izzy with Oates.

What was the purpose of trading your #1 or #2 defenceman in Niinimaa for a potential power forward like Izzy if you're just going to stick him on the 3rd or 4th line. He played like a demon in last year's final regular season game against Dallas. Then, MacT stuck Mike York (with a broken wrist) ahead of Izzy on the second line. Hemsky also played very quietly in last years playoffs. Why didn't MacT put Izzy on the first line with Marchant and Smyth. I don't see the purpose of trading a #1 or #2 defenceman for a 4th line winger which is essentially what MacT has made Izzy.

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Old
12-22-2003, 12:25 PM
  #12
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Originally Posted by dawgbone
That is what you are going to fix, not how you are going to fix it.

Come on now, you are the one who thinks Mac-T is a crappy coach, so lets hear what you would do.
Which part confuses you?

He said "I believe what you're asking for has already been covered in the various winning attitude, accountability, and motivation discussions we've had on here in recent weeks." which is the what.

Replace the coach is the how. If you want him to explain what words he would use to motivate or what actions should be taken, such as public flogging, waivers, Toronto I'm sure that has already been covered in detail for months.

Since you are so adamant maybe you can explain how a team that is in 13th place in the conference is a product of good coaching. Are you suggesting that anyone other than MacT would have them in 15th place?

 
Old
12-22-2003, 12:39 PM
  #13
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IF they are going to get rid of MacT, and I don't want it to happen, they need to bring in a total outsider. Somene with no ties to the Oilers organization past or present. Someone like Larry Robinson.

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12-22-2003, 12:52 PM
  #14
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Now while I am starting to abhor reading posts where some believe they can coach an NHL team (honestly, it strikes me as just trying to stroke their own ego), I don't see why a coaching change would necessarily be a bane to this hockey club.

Who knows? Maybe the coach is sending the message but the players have quit listening. Coaches have been fired in the past for much less than what we have seen in Edmonton so far this year.

Possible coaching candidates? Who knows. Marc Habscheid? Brent Sutter? If anyone is willing to adopt the Ottawa Senators model of play Perry Pearn?

Just some suggestions. And I don't think Ted Nolan will ever get a job in the NHL. He's just too far out of the game to be able to adapt quickly enough to today.

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Old
12-22-2003, 01:32 PM
  #15
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I am of a mixed mind in this case. While Nolan is clearly not the answer (he was fired for being disloyal, something Lowe would never tolerate), I am not sure if the players have tuned out Mact. All coaches have a best before date and mact is one of the longest serving coaches inthe nhl right now.

It maybe a good short term solution to bring a motivator like demers but then the oilers would be paying 2 salaries next year when they are going to be cutting expenses to the bone. Coaches are team employees, not contract players so they have to be paid next year even during the walkout / strike. Without a good long walkout / strike, there won't be an oilers org in2 years so you have to know these guys are planning for a long stoppage. IMO, if MacT gets the can, then the only viable solution is for Lowe to step behind the bench.

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12-22-2003, 01:34 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZIM
Which part confuses you?

He said "I believe what you're asking for has already been covered in the various winning attitude, accountability, and motivation discussions we've had on here in recent weeks." which is the what.

Replace the coach is the how. If you want him to explain what words he would use to motivate or what actions should be taken, such as public flogging, waivers, Toronto I'm sure that has already been covered in detail for months.

Since you are so adamant maybe you can explain how a team that is in 13th place in the conference is a product of good coaching. Are you suggesting that anyone other than MacT would have them in 15th place?
No, he didn't answer the question. There have been some posts from guys on here saying they are a better coach than Mac-T... and here is there chance to prove it.



13th place, and 4 out of 8th.

The world hasn't ended, and this team has already shown that they can step it up against some good teams and go on a bit of a roll.

So when the team wins 2 of 14 it is all the coaching, and when this team inevitably goes on their win streak (take a look back, they always do it), will it be solely the coaching that does it?

It isn't complicated. This team is going to have a tough time finishing. This shouldn't suprise anybody. This team outworks the opposition the vast majority of the time. Finishing has, and will continually be a problem for this hockey team. Once the Oilers get a hot line going, the team will pick it up again, just they always do.

This is not the first extended losing streak this team has ever had, nor will it be the last, and every year it is the same crap... Mac-T can't coach.

Well I think he has proven time and time that he can.

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12-22-2003, 03:45 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axis
*snip*
As for line combos, I haven't seen MacT put Smyth and Izzy with Oates.

What was the purpose of trading your #1 or #2 defenceman in Niinimaa for a potential power forward like Izzy if you're just going to stick him on the 3rd or 4th line. He played like a demon in last year's final regular season game against Dallas. Then, MacT stuck Mike York (with a broken wrist) ahead of Izzy on the second line. Hemsky also played very quietly in last years playoffs. Why didn't MacT put Izzy on the first line with Marchant and Smyth. I don't see the purpose of trading a #1 or #2 defenceman for a 4th line winger which is essentially what MacT has made Izzy.
Your wish has been granted. Just heard on Sportsnet that the first line will be Smyth - Oates - Isbister.

No mention of the other lines.

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"He just ate up Robyn Regehr for dinner, a spectacular play by Hemsky, and Robyn Regehr has got doo doo all over his face" - Rod Phillips call on Hemsky's goal vs the Flames
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12-22-2003, 05:37 PM
  #18
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How about Dawgbone telling us what the heck is so good about McTavish?

hmmm?

We have tried endlessly all season to explain to him what we don't like. How about him telling all us DUMMIES on HF what's so great about him? Something a little more than, "we're wrong". Or it's the injuries and youth. Or it's because none of his players can finish. Because if that's his feeling........does it really matter who is behind there? Why defend the guy like some badger? There must be something real great about him that we're missing.

He always loves to DEMAND air tight solid reasons. How about giving us some.......other than....oh well they are young....so a rudderless ship is expected here in Edmonton.

I'm really intrigued.

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12-22-2003, 06:20 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gretzky2kurri
How about Dawgbone telling us what the heck is so good about McTavish?

hmmm?

We have tried endlessly all season to explain to him what we don't like. How about him telling all us DUMMIES on HF what's so great about him? Something a little more than, "we're wrong". Or it's the injuries and youth. Or it's because none of his players can finish. Because if that's his feeling........does it really matter who is behind there? Why defend the guy like some badger? There must be something real great about him that we're missing.

He always loves to DEMAND air tight solid reasons. How about giving us some.......other than....oh well they are young....so a rudderless ship is expected here in Edmonton.

I'm really intrigued.
Big suprise this is coming from you... I though you said you weren't going to respond to my posts anymore?

This was a question for all the hall of fame coaches that patrol here, and it is simply <b>How do you fix it?</b>

MAc-T obviously does something right, because every year he takes a team that is in the bottom 1/3 of the league in age, bottom 1/3 of the league in payroll, and a team that most "expert" hockey analysts pick to finish in the bottom 1/3 of the league, to in the top 1/2 in the overall standings.

What does he do well?

He is always rewarding the players who give maximum effort, over the players who are more skilled, but don't put the same effort in.

He won't sit there and let things run their course when things aren't going well.

He gets the most out of guys who you would never think of (Is it any suprise that guys like Moreau, Staois, Smith, Cross, etc... have all had their best seasons when Mac-T was the coach?)

He handles the kids extremely well. Last season he handled Hemsky perfectly, and has done so this year as well. Torres, even though his goal scoring has cooled off, is still playing very well, and you can tell he still has confidence in the rest of his game. Horcoff got off to a rough start, but Mac-T knew what he was capable of, and let him work things out.

I didn't see a lot of praise heading Mac-T's way when the team was above .500, so it can't all be coaching.

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12-22-2003, 06:20 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
That is what you are going to fix, not how you are going to fix it.

Come on now, you are the one who thinks Mac-T is a crappy coach, so lets hear what you would do.
As Zim pointed out, I have already explained how it should be done, and do not wish to re-hash complicated long posts on the subject.

You want some weird checklist of things to do? That's not how this kinda thing works.

BTW, when exactly has MacT proven that he can coach??

all the times he's let losing streaks go on without doing anything?

our beautiful playoff losses?

being a substantial and noticeable part in winning ONE game in the last two years?

giving interviews that prove he has no clue what's wrong with his team? EVER?

Need I go on? Seriously.....

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12-22-2003, 06:22 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone

He won't sit there and let things run their course when things aren't going well.
.
Are you KIDDING? That's exactly what he does.

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12-22-2003, 06:24 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Are you KIDDING? That's exactly what he does.
Of course he does, which is why everyone complains about the blender...

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12-22-2003, 06:26 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
As Zim pointed out, I have already explained how it should be done, and do not wish to re-hash complicated long posts on the subject.

You want some weird checklist of things to do? That's not how this kinda thing works.

BTW, when exactly has MacT proven that he can coach??

all the times he's let losing streaks go on without doing anything?

our beautiful playoff losses?

being a substantial and noticeable part in winning ONE game in the last two years?

giving interviews that prove he has no clue what's wrong with his team? EVER?

Need I go on? Seriously.....
Keep tip toeing.

There is alot of what you are going to do, not how you are going to do it.

i.e. Make players accountable, or instill a winning attitude.

question <b>HOW?</b>

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12-22-2003, 06:29 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by dawgbone
Of course he does, which is why everyone complains about the blender...
Randomly moving 1 or 2 wingers around in the first period is not genuinely considered 'doing something' about a losing streak. It's considered to be "I don't know what to do so why not juggle lines and look for something, instead of doing what a good coach does, which is identify players that should be together, and combine them." Things like benchings, sending guys down and calling them up, actually calling out your leaders, motivating the team, maybe LOSING IT once in a while when things are going bad instead of staring at the scoreboard, making a difference by out-coaching someone, all things you can do. But the problem is they take ability. It's like you said, ANYONE can come up with a new lineup with a winger in a different spot or a center playing wing, but a coach's true job is to keep his team in a winning state of mind, so that it never falls into a hole like we have lately.

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12-22-2003, 06:33 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by serum114
The first is Terry Crisp. I never knew why the Flames got rid of him (he won them a Cup after all) and I liked what he did in his time with the Lightning. Crisper has the right skill set IMO, however his age and lack of Oiler affiliation may work against him.
Crisp is interesting. I don't think he's had sniff in the last 5 years. I think most people think his personality (overly bubbly) doesn't work well as a head coach.

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