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Old
05-14-2007, 10:14 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Fuhr86 View Post
I think Redden won't be dealt though. If anything he just won't be resigned when his contract is over, opening the cap space.
Isn't that bad asset management? To let a player leave for absolutely nothing?

Why not do the same with him that we did with Havlat?

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05-14-2007, 10:19 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by PuckGuy0218 View Post
Isn't that bad asset management? To let a player leave for absolutely nothing?

Why not do the same with him that we did with Havlat?
Well if we can keep the same roster WITH Redden next year and we win the Cup then who cares if Redden leaves for nothing? Screw Asset management in that case. If we need the Cap space next year we might deal Redden but if we don't and he leaves for nothing I won't be crying about it.

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05-14-2007, 10:20 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Cup 2007 Sens Rule! View Post
Well if we can keep the same roster WITH Redden next year and we win the Cup then who cares if Redden leaves for nothing? Screw Asset management in that case. If we need the Cap space next year we might deal Redden but if we don't and he leaves for nothing I won't be crying about it.
Thats how I see it.

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05-14-2007, 10:20 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Courty View Post
I just wanted to point out that Redden's veteran leadership is what kept the sens going in the OT after briere's goal. He's probably one of the most vocale guys in the dressing room.

Article in Citizen
Coming from inside the dressing room, the voices of a couple of players, including veteran defenceman Wade Redden, could be heard by Murray. They were basically giving their teammates a pep talk at a time when their emotions had taken a good whack.

I heard (what they were saying)," Murray said yesterday at Scotiabank Place several hours after the Senators flew back from Buffalo.

"(The rest of the team was) really quiet. There was one or two guys speaking up. Wade Redden was one of the most prominent. I waited for about eight minutes before I went in



Redden has the leadership.
Well, I'm not arguing one way or the other about that -- I think Wade had a pretty bad year, but it's not as if he's a write-off, and he's been much better in the playoffs. I just increasingly get the sense that barring a miracle, Muckler has his mind made up on the matter.

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05-14-2007, 10:53 PM
  #30
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Redden is playing better (and so is Meszaros) but I don't think he's in Phillips and Volchenkov's league at the moment.

I'd even put Corvo ahead of Redden at the moment.

But all 6 guys are playing so well that it's really impressive to see all of our pairings executing.

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05-14-2007, 11:01 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuhr86 View Post
I think Redden won't be dealt though. If anything he just won't be resigned when his contract is over, opening the cap space.
That's quite possible - especially if they do win the Cup. Trading big-name players for assets just prior to free agency is one thing when you haven't won anything, but Redden has improved considerably from his regular season in these playoffs, and the team is flying pretty high. Again, if they do win the Cup, it becomes quite a bit easier to justify letting him play out his contract if there is a belief that it could lead to another Cup win. And it's certainly not impossible that Redden would consider re-signing for less afterwards - especially if the team has had so much success, and it's clear that his role is not as prominent as it was when he was signed to the larger deal.

That said, his improved play could now yield a more quality return than what might have been anticipated just a month or two ago (especially one of those prospect gems that the Oilers are now flush with). If the 'right deal' should happen to fall in Muckler's lap between now and July 1st, it will make it much harder to say no - especially if it means someone like Preissing can be re-signed, plus a possible UFA solution to re-bolster the defence. The comparatively 'good' thing for Muckler, though, is that either solution could be fairly easily justified - and non-action is all that is required to accomplish one of the two. It really means, in terms of trade, someone would have to step up with trade return that serves as incentive - which arguably was not the case last year with Havlat, where there appeared to be comparatively few suitors, and not that much in terms of return on the table.

As for Phillips, well he's just been a rock. This is perhaps not surprising given that he's frequently been among the few who have consistently shown up in the playoffs, but with the larger role he's playing it just makes it all the more pleasing to watch. Signing him and Volchenkov long-term really was very smart on Muckler's part - even if they hadn't managed to put together such an impressive playoff run. The fact that they have makes it look borderline genius.


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05-14-2007, 11:19 PM
  #32
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This threads always seem to pop up , but for different players.

I disagree, but I think he's done a hell of a job.

I think there's many pieces to our defensive success. Even with the backchecking of a Heater

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05-14-2007, 11:31 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by PuckGuy0218 View Post
Isn't that bad asset management? To let a player leave for absolutely nothing?

Why not do the same with him that we did with Havlat?
Because you need to assess whether one year of Redden is worth more to the Senators than whatever we would get for him in a trade. Unless we acquire a blue-chip prospect or a star player that is ready to contribute immediately, the year of Redden is probably worth more to the Senators. He matters to the boys in the dressing room, he matters to the fans, he matters to the organisation, and most importantly he matters on the ice. It's up to Muckler to assess whether that is worth keeping for a year and losing for nothing, and I personally think it is.

In Havlat's case, Muckler decided that saving $3+ million dollars, at least a year of Preissing, the rights to Hennessy and Barinka and basically a late 1st round pick, was worth more than a (probably injury-filled) year of Havlat.

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05-15-2007, 12:07 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by SpezzaFan_19 View Post
I guess Redden will not be re-signed after next season unless he takes a cut

He'll have to take a paycut no matter what I think but I'dlike to see him play out his contract and sign for Phillips type money back in Ottawa. He was promised a competitive team that could win the cup and he's gotten that. There is no reason to leave. Not now anyways.

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05-15-2007, 04:22 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
Redden is playing better (and so is Meszaros) but I don't think he's in Phillips and Volchenkov's league at the moment.

I'd even put Corvo ahead of Redden at the moment.

But all 6 guys are playing so well that it's really impressive to see all of our pairings executing.
Redden and Meszaros they're just different than Volchenkov who is excellent in blocking and leading puck and Phillips with great physicall style. Both redden and meszaros are extremely well in positioning, they almost dont make positional mistakes which is maybe not so attractive as hitting but its strongly effective.

All six defenders are great. there's no need to pick one or two of them for some extra contribution to the team.

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05-15-2007, 04:39 AM
  #36
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Redden has been good, VERY good, ever since the start of Jersey series and now. Plus he is helping us offensively now too. No way we contain the Sabres forwards to the pathetic shots/chances #s we have been without his presence on our 2nd unit. We all said this before the playoffs started, if ALL we had going as very relaible defensive pair was that Phillips-Volchenkov pair, we would not go far. We are where we are because Redden-Mezaros have been extremely solid. Still no goals against while on the ice starting since Jersey. That is amazing actualy. Throw in the very productive offensive 3rd pairing (Corvo/Preissing) that are giving us 15 solid minutes of 'plus' hockey almsot every night, and that is why we have been nearly unbeatable this spring. I expect these guys to be even better when they are facing the Matlby's and Drabers or Rob Neidermires instead of Thomas Vanek's and Maxim Afinogenovs. They have realy left us with no holes this year on D. And we have ALWAYS had at least 1 or 2 holes back there even with Chara.

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05-15-2007, 04:48 AM
  #37
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has a shutdown defenseman ever won the conn smythe before?... because if they dont base it on stats Phillips has that things sewn up IMO

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05-15-2007, 04:50 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
has a shutdown defenseman ever won the conn smythe before?... because if they dont base it on stats Phillips has that things sewn up IMO
Yes, but it could just as easily go to Volchenkov. They have both been amazing thus far and realy all season.

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05-15-2007, 05:45 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Cup 2007 Sens Rule! View Post
Redden has probably been our best defenceman in the playoffs so far though.
I disagree. He's finally at the level of play as Phillips and Volchenkov....and thats a compliment.

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05-15-2007, 05:56 AM
  #40
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I have to say your defense is impressive. Volchenkov is unbelieveable, the decisions he makes are spot on every time. That diving play on Briere last night just shows his confidence in his play.

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05-15-2007, 07:08 AM
  #41
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Redden's been really solid these playoffs and I don't think that the Sens would mind losing him for nothing if he doesn't sign after next season. That being said, I think he'll certainly be around next season to try and judge whether or not he's worth keeping around and at what price. It's really troubling when the price for top d-men went to 6.25-6.75 for Nieds and Pronger, but then all the lesser d-men who aren't Norris calibre, and I'd include Redden in that lot, started to get paid like it, like Redden, Jovo, McCabe etc.

I don't mind the best say 5 guys getting huge dollars to play their position, but it's when it inflates the salaries of the guys who aren't at that level that it kind of ticks me off. Like say Richards getting 7.8 million when he's pretty much a PPG but not more, and still he's getting the kind of money Crosby or Ovechkin will get when they negotiate new contracts, or what Iginla should get while not being as good.

Anyways, long story short, the Sens need to sign Preissing as I really like Schubert as a forward with occasional shifts on defense, but the organization is so thin after Schubert that we wouldn't have a 7th d-man otherwise. Preissing has been really good for what he brings, and at 2.5 million he'll be worth every penny (if he signs around there). I think the days of marquee d-men are disappearing a bit as teams need to choose the young rising offensive stars or the 6.5 million dollar d-men. Anaheim's a bit of an exception, but they'll still have trouble after next season when Getzlaf, Perry and Penner want raises and even this season it'll cost them a fortune to keep Giguere.

Oh but back to topic, so Phillips the #1 d-man, yes he is and he's really proving his worth. Him being better without Chara was well worth not signing Chara IMO. The only way he could really be better would be if he could produce on the PP, but we have so many guys for that it's alot more important that he's our shutdown guy. He's come a long way just from the last few seasons and finally the trade rumors that seemed to surface every few months about Phillips can be put to rest.

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05-15-2007, 07:13 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Sens4Cup View Post
Redden's been really solid these playoffs and I don't think that the Sens would mind losing him for nothing if he doesn't sign after next season. That being said, I think he'll certainly be around next season to try and judge whether or not he's worth keeping around and at what price. It's really troubling when the price for top d-men went to 6.25-6.75 for Nieds and Pronger, but then all the lesser d-men who aren't Norris calibre, and I'd include Redden in that lot, started to get paid like it, like Redden, Jovo, McCabe etc.

I don't mind the best say 5 guys getting huge dollars to play their position, but it's when it inflates the salaries of the guys who aren't at that level that it kind of ticks me off. Like say Richards getting 7.8 million when he's pretty much a PPG but not more, and still he's getting the kind of money Crosby or Ovechkin will get when they negotiate new contracts, or what Iginla should get while not being as good.

Anyways, long story short, the Sens need to sign Preissing as I really like Schubert as a forward with occasional shifts on defense, but the organization is so thin after Schubert that we wouldn't have a 7th d-man otherwise. Preissing has been really good for what he brings, and at 2.5 million he'll be worth every penny (if he signs around there). I think the days of marquee d-men are disappearing a bit as teams need to choose the young rising offensive stars or the 6.5 million dollar d-men. Anaheim's a bit of an exception, but they'll still have trouble after next season when Getzlaf, Perry and Penner want raises and even this season it'll cost them a fortune to keep Giguere.

Oh but back to topic, so Phillips the #1 d-man, yes he is and he's really proving his worth. Him being better without Chara was well worth not signing Chara IMO. The only way he could really be better would be if he could produce on the PP, but we have so many guys for that it's alot more important that he's our shutdown guy. He's come a long way just from the last few seasons and finally the trade rumors that seemed to surface every few months about Phillips can be put to rest.
Very well said.

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05-15-2007, 07:15 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
has a shutdown defenseman ever won the conn smythe before?... because if they dont base it on stats Phillips has that things sewn up IMO
Scott Stevens won the Conn Smythe in 2000 and he had like 9 points I think, which isn't much for a defenseman, and he won it not for his 9 points but for his shutdown d-man skills.

I don't think Phillips or Volchenkov would really be Conn Smythe material this year though even though they've been great, simply because they've been as good as every other player on the team has been - awesome.

Conn Smythe wise I'm thinking Alfie will get it, but maybe even Emery depending on next round, or possibly Spezza if he gets a couple game winners, and for his blocked shots (never thought I'd say that).

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05-15-2007, 07:18 AM
  #44
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Redden's value will only go through the roof now because every GM knows what he can and has already done in the reagular seasons before. He was injured for 20 games this year and put up 39 pts in 60 games going through inconsistancy never there in the past. He might not be Pronger, Neids, or Lidstrom but he sure as heck is the next best thing out there when at teh top of his game and a top 5 dman. If he helps us win a cup it won't be easy trading a guy like that who's been here since 19 till now at 29. He was awsome last night, awsome defensively and with the puck. Because of puck controling dman like him we can keep the puck away from the skilled Sabres sticks and keep it and have it moved to their end non stop like we seen last night.

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05-15-2007, 07:18 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Sens4Cup View Post

Anyways, long story short, the Sens need to sign Preissing as I really like Schubert as a forward with occasional shifts on defense.
If Schubert is not a full time defenseman next season I bet he asks for a trade or looks to jet the first chance he gets. He is a RFA this summer I bet when he signs his new contract he gets assurance to be a defenseman next season.

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05-15-2007, 07:28 AM
  #46
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If Schubert is not a full time defenseman next season I bet he asks for a trade or looks to jet the first chance he gets. He is a RFA this summer I bet when he signs his new contract he gets assurance to be a defenseman next season.
Screw that, I want Preissing playing D instead. I realy covet his offensive awareness and tendencies to get the puck at the net just at that right moment. Plus he is more skilled at moving the puck than Shubert is and smoother. He is more solid defensively also with potential to play a bigger role like he did in SJ playing 20+ mins a night. And he has always been big in the playoffs, even in SJ. I want him signed to Corvo type contract. Honestly I like him even more than Corvo, and I liked Corvo ever since Murray finaly figured out that he was #5 type guy with PP abilities and offensive pazzas to carry the puck.

I'd love to have around Shubert but if we want to keep this great and multi dimentional Dcore together (skill/puck movemnet/physicality) we keep Preissing. Plus we gave up Havlat to get the guy, nevermind that Hennesy kid. I know Shubert is more than just a banging 4th line guy because he gives us that luxury of havin another 6th dman in the line-up everynight playing on the 4th line incase of injury during game or even long term to one of the top 6. But If we cant keep both, I keep Preissing over him.

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05-15-2007, 07:28 AM
  #47
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If Schubert is not a full time defenseman next season I bet he asks for a trade or looks to jet the first chance he gets. He is a RFA this summer I bet when he signs his new contract he gets assurance to be a defenseman next season.
I dunno if he'd really ask for a trade, I mean especially if the Sens were to win the Cup. He's really a solid forward and he's a good d-man but the current make up of the defense seems to work well - 2 defensive guys, 2 offensive guys, 2 defensive/offensive guys.

He's just so big and so fast that he seems better suited to a forward role in a lot of ways and it really helps to wear down the opposition. That being said, if Preissing doesn't sign I'm sure Schubert will play defense, and do so very well.

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05-15-2007, 07:33 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Sens4Cup View Post
I dunno if he'd really ask for a trade, I mean especially if the Sens were to win the Cup. He's really a solid forward and he's a good d-man but the current make up of the defense seems to work well - 2 defensive guys, 2 offensive guys, 2 defensive/offensive guys.

He's just so big and so fast that he seems better suited to a forward role in a lot of ways and it really helps to wear down the opposition. That being said, if Preissing doesn't sign I'm sure Schubert will play defense, and do so very well.
I think he knows he will make more money developing as a top four defenseman as opposesd to being a fourth line forward/part time defenseman.

- 6'3 237lbs
- 100MPH shot
- Likes to hit and is very solid defensively as seen killing penalties

I am quite sure he wants minutes as a full time defenseman. He can make more money that way.

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05-15-2007, 07:39 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Fuhr86 View Post
I think he knows he will make more money developing as a top four defenseman as opposesd to being a fourth line forward/part time defenseman.

- 6'3 237lbs
- 100MPH shot
- Likes to hit and is very solid defensively as seen killing penalties

I am quite sure he wants minutes as a full time defenseman. He can make more money that way.
Well if he doesn't have a spot next year on defense, he'll certainly have one if Redden leaves for sure, as Lee seems to be taking his sweet time to be better than Marc Staal (slightly bitter).

Schubert's also got a decent Hasek impression that could make him some money.

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05-15-2007, 08:59 AM
  #50
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LOL, I hope you're not saying that Lee is or will be better than Marc Staal. That simply will not happen. Lee will be a solid dman, however but he'll be a little bit of a project.

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