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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Proposal: Buffalo/Chicago

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Old
05-17-2007, 08:54 AM
  #26
heusy_57
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I think some people are overestimating the value of the number one pick. Like BikeGiftingMan said, there is no Crosby or Ovechkin available this year. There are star or even potential superstars, but no franchise players. If Buffalo was to make a move to acquire the first overall pick in order to draft Kane, a more likely proposal would be:
Ales Kotalik ($2.5m in 07/08)---> Talented scorer who could play with Havlat
1st Round Pick in 08
2nd Round Pick in 07


Last edited by heusy_57: 05-17-2007 at 08:56 AM. Reason: Originally had this years first rounder, which was traded to Washington for Dainus Zubrus
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Old
05-17-2007, 11:00 AM
  #27
Zim
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Originally Posted by heusy_57 View Post
I think some people are overestimating the value of the number one pick. Like BikeGiftingMan said, there is no Crosby or Ovechkin available this year. There are star or even potential superstars, but no franchise players. If Buffalo was to make a move to acquire the first overall pick in order to draft Kane, a more likely proposal would be:
Ales Kotalik ($2.5m in 07/08)---> Talented scorer who could play with Havlat
1st Round Pick in 08
2nd Round Pick in 07
Horrible trade. I don't understand why people can't get it into their heads that Chicago do not need more picks, they do not need more prospects. What they need is players who can make a difference NOW. Also anyone Chicago trade for will need to either have quite a long contract or have agreed to an extension before the trade happens.


Last edited by Zim: 05-17-2007 at 11:12 AM.
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Old
05-17-2007, 11:14 AM
  #28
bullsville
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As Stuy(Wirtzsucks) said Vanek or nothing

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Old
05-17-2007, 11:15 AM
  #29
ikeane
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I unserstand the reasoning about most of the trade proposals mentionned here. I think, however, that many people underestimate why the price may be high for the #1 pick. Yes, there are no Ovechkin's, Crosby's, or Malkin's in this draft. If a team (like Buffalo) wants Kane, and wants him bad enough, they will have to meet the asking price of younger #1 line player (C/LW). Dale Tallon is in control. He needs immediate help and if he gets offers like Kotalik, 1st in 08, and a 2nd on 07, he can laugh at it, and draft Kane/Turris/or whoever. Supply and Demand. He has the supply, and if there is a high demand, there will be a high return. If no one wants to pay that much for the #1 overall pick, Dale Tallon will go to the podium.

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Old
05-17-2007, 11:24 AM
  #30
CM Lundqvist
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The only way Chicago will trade that pick is if they get a Crosby/Ovechkin kind of player in return, and in that case, they're packaging that #1 overall pick.

That type of trade is just pointless, as there would be no reason for a team to trade a talent like that for a #1 overall pick and some other prospects or young roster help.

So let's just stop here.

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Old
05-17-2007, 12:16 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
The only way Chicago will trade that pick is if they get a Crosby/Ovechkin kind of player in return, and in that case, they're packaging that #1 overall pick.

That type of trade is just pointless, as there would be no reason for a team to trade a talent like that for a #1 overall pick and some other prospects or young roster help.

So let's just stop here.
Expecting a SC/AO player back is crazy IMO. Just as thinking that Afinigonov & a 2nd gets it done as well.

I realize that there isn't a "generational" talent available in this years draft, but that doesnt' mean that the Hawks would be willing to move the pick for two years of an enigmatic Afinigonov and a 2nd round DP either. It's very possible that Kane turns into a "Paul Kariya in his prime", and that chance is MUCH more valuable IMO than 2 years of MA. You try to build your franchise around someone like Kane (or JVR), and I don't think that anyone is thinking that MA is a guy you build a team around.

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Old
05-17-2007, 12:22 PM
  #32
salty justice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
The only way Chicago will trade that pick is if they get a Crosby/Ovechkin kind of player in return, and in that case, they're packaging that #1 overall pick.

That type of trade is just pointless, as there would be no reason for a team to trade a talent like that for a #1 overall pick and some other prospects or young roster help.

So let's just stop here.
It is not that far fetched that a team in cap trouble may be willing to trade a first liner for a future first liner in Kane.

Buffalo would not make a good trading partner in that case unless they want to trade Vanek to keep Briere and Drury in the long run and get a Kane + Ruutu type of return.

A team like Tampa would make a good partner if they are looking to trade Vinny or Richards for cap reasons.

The bottom line is that Chicago will not be taking any picks, prospects, defensemen or bottom 6 forwards in ANY trade this summer unless it is a lateral cap type move or minor deal.

Anyone that thinks Chicago needs junk picks or prospects is much more foolish than someone who thinks Chicago needs a Vanek type player.

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Old
05-17-2007, 01:47 PM
  #33
hizzoner
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Right--just what Buffalo needs--another smurf at centre who may or may not ever be as good as Briere, Roy, Drury or Connolly--and all they have to do is give up the developing talent they need to stay out of cap trouble.

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05-17-2007, 02:26 PM
  #34
WOTR
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Originally Posted by hizzoner View Post
Right--just what Buffalo needs--another smurf at centre who may or may not ever be as good as Briere, Roy, Drury or Connolly--and all they have to do is give up the developing talent they need to stay out of cap trouble.
There it is. The source of how this draft has gotten a bad rep. First off, if you are referring to Kane, he is not a center. He is a wing.

His size is one of the main reasons this draft is getting a bad name. Having no conesus number one pick or no generational talent, (although many dispute that) doesn't mean the top 5 are not high end talents.

Kane will likely be a first line winger. As Salty and other have already repeated themselves over, the Hawks only have 1 reason to trade a 1st liner and that is to get a player that is ready to play at a high level NOW.

The only reason a team would trade a 1st liner that can play NOW, is to relive there cap space while picking up a 1st liner for LATER.


I expect to see Tallon at the podium. I think it will be Kane, but who ever it is I will be excited to see them play soon.

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Old
05-17-2007, 04:19 PM
  #35
perin
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Originally Posted by WOTR View Post
There it is. The source of how this draft has gotten a bad rep. First off, if you are referring to Kane, he is not a center. He is a wing.

His size is one of the main reasons this draft is getting a bad name. Having no conesus number one pick or no generational talent, (although many dispute that) doesn't mean the top 5 are not high end talents.

Kane will likely be a first line winger. As Salty and other have already repeated themselves over, the Hawks only have 1 reason to trade a 1st liner and that is to get a player that is ready to play at a high level NOW.

The only reason a team would trade a 1st liner that can play NOW, is to relive there cap space while picking up a 1st liner for LATER.


I expect to see Tallon at the podium. I think it will be Kane, but who ever it is I will be excited to see them play soon.

Exactly I don't understand why people don't see it this way.

Anyways the Hawks are going to suck next year as well and probably have a chance and Tavares

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Old
05-17-2007, 04:42 PM
  #36
Have My Baby Pierre
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Originally Posted by bullsville View Post
As Stuy(Wirtzsucks) said Vanek or nothing
then I guess it would be nothing, because I don't think Kane is going to score 43 goals in his 2nd season..

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Old
05-17-2007, 06:45 PM
  #37
Chayos
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9teen7ty5,

Chicago doesn't have a deep prospect pool? You need to pay more attention to other teams than your favorite ones.

I would say Chicagos prospects are a lot better than Buffalo's and they would not do that deal. Chicago doesn't need prospects they need top line talent.

I think for Chicago to trade the pick to Buffalo, they would ask for at least Vanek, if not more

Whoa there cowboy there is no way even the 1st overall pick this year will net you Vanek.

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Old
05-17-2007, 10:44 PM
  #38
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Don't need prospects?

Roy, Afinogenov, 2nd in 07 for the first overall in 07.

Roy's a very young two way player. He may have a bad rep with diving and whining, but he really is a character, and a leader on the ice. He's a little guy that plays big. He's fast, kills penalties, and is pretty creative with the puck. He'll produce 25-45-70 seasons throughout his career.

Afinogenov can play either wing, and would be wicked on a line with Havlat, because they both have speed to burn.

The 2nd rounder is Phillies, so the 2nd pick in the 2nd round (unless the lottery doesn't effect the later rounds).

Could that do it? If you want, you can take Spacek back, too.

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Old
05-18-2007, 02:47 AM
  #39
Zim
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Originally Posted by Looooooodman View Post
Don't need prospects?

Roy, Afinogenov, 2nd in 07 for the first overall in 07.

Roy's a very young two way player. He may have a bad rep with diving and whining, but he really is a character, and a leader on the ice. He's a little guy that plays big. He's fast, kills penalties, and is pretty creative with the puck. He'll produce 25-45-70 seasons throughout his career.

Afinogenov can play either wing, and would be wicked on a line with Havlat, because they both have speed to burn.

The 2nd rounder is Phillies, so the 2nd pick in the 2nd round (unless the lottery doesn't effect the later rounds).

Could that do it? If you want, you can take Spacek back, too.
That deal interests me quite a bit. Adding those two to Havlat, Toews and Ruutu means that Chicago are only one player away from having a very respectable top 6 for next year.

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Old
05-18-2007, 03:58 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Looooooodman View Post
Don't need prospects?

Roy, Afinogenov, 2nd in 07 for the first overall in 07.

Roy's a very young two way player. He may have a bad rep with diving and whining, but he really is a character, and a leader on the ice. He's a little guy that plays big. He's fast, kills penalties, and is pretty creative with the puck. He'll produce 25-45-70 seasons throughout his career.

Afinogenov can play either wing, and would be wicked on a line with Havlat, because they both have speed to burn.

The 2nd rounder is Phillies, so the 2nd pick in the 2nd round (unless the lottery doesn't effect the later rounds).

Could that do it? If you want, you can take Spacek back, too.
They probably wouldn't play together, Max only play RW, and from what I know about Havlat, that's his prefered position as well.

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05-18-2007, 06:17 AM
  #41
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Looking at the top 6 for Chicago, Toews needs a creative linemate so the lines could be shuffled:

Vrbata-Roy-Havlat
Ruutu-Toews-Afinogenov
Bourque-Williams-Sharp
Bickell-Burish-Lapointe

Something like that....(I'd really like to see Vrbata gone from the top 6 though)

If I had my say, I'd trade Vrbata for whatever he would fetch in return and sign Hartnell for that #1 LW spot (otherwise that first line is going to get pushed around WAY too much!)

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Old
05-18-2007, 09:38 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
so you lower your prospect pool and depth to add a prospect? it's not even like these guys this year are can't miss prospects... i think Maxim + a 2nd would be more than fair for that pick

As a Hawk fan I would tell you to keep Max and your 2nd and take my chances with the guy I draft first overall.

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Old
05-18-2007, 09:47 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Looooooodman View Post
Don't need prospects?

Roy, Afinogenov, 2nd in 07 for the first overall in 07.

Roy's a very young two way player. He may have a bad rep with diving and whining, but he really is a character, and a leader on the ice. He's a little guy that plays big. He's fast, kills penalties, and is pretty creative with the puck. He'll produce 25-45-70 seasons throughout his career.

Afinogenov can play either wing, and would be wicked on a line with Havlat, because they both have speed to burn.

The 2nd rounder is Phillies, so the 2nd pick in the 2nd round (unless the lottery doesn't effect the later rounds).

Could that do it? If you want, you can take Spacek back, too.

I like Roy alot, but I'm not totally sold on MA. Personally I think we've seen all we are going to get from him, which means he is not the type to build the team around.

One problem the Hawks face is that there is no buzz in the city for the Hawks. The first overall pick in the draft, even though it is regarded as a weaker draft can create a little bit of interest, With that said neither Roy or Max will accomplish that. So as other have already stated, if the Hawks trade the No. 1, they need to get a young, top line talent back.

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Old
05-18-2007, 02:26 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowhawk View Post
One problem the Hawks face is that there is no buzz in the city for the Hawks. The first overall pick in the draft, even though it is regarded as a weaker draft can create a little bit of interest, With that said neither Roy or Max will accomplish that. So as other have already stated, if the Hawks trade the No. 1, they need to get a young, top line talent back.
You know what would really generate a buzz in Chicago? A team that finishes January at .500. Roy and Afino would definitely add a skill and for the most part durability to a team that lacks that in it's forward ranks. I'm not sure whether or not I'd give up a potential stud winger in Kane for two above average second line forwards in an effort to turn a bad team into a mediocre one, but value wise it's pretty good for Chicago.

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Old
05-18-2007, 02:32 PM
  #45
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Chicago has a 2 Tons of slightly above average prospects that project to be 2 liners, borderline 1st liners. It is a joke to consider trading a potential all-star for more of what we have in abundance.

Make some sense ppl. A 1st line stud or podium. That is what the Hawks need (top line). That is it.

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05-18-2007, 02:58 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by WOTR View Post
Chicago has a 2 Tons of slightly above average prospects that project to be 2 liners, borderline 1st liners. It is a joke to consider trading a potential all-star for more of what we have in abundance.

Make some sense ppl. A 1st line stud or podium. That is what the Hawks need (top line). That is it.
Unless it's a salary dump, why is someone going to trade a 1st line stud for a potential 1st line stud? I'm a Hawks fan, but I can't think of one significant reason why a team like Buffalo would trade Vanek (a 1st line stud) for the 1st overall. I don't think that drafting a prospect who grew up in your area is enough reason to move a guy like Vanek - it just doesn't make sense. That's like saying the Hawks traded for Richmond because he's from the CHI-land area. In most cases I don't think that where someone's from has much bearing on these types of deals.

Like I said - I'd do a Afinogonov & Stafford for 1st & solid prospect. Both assets from BUFF are able to contribute on a scoring line now, and are young enough that they can be built around if they justify it.

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Old
05-18-2007, 03:07 PM
  #47
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Done and done, from the Sabres' perspective. We cut salary and gain a hometown boy and a good, young defenseman. Afinogenov is amazing to watch, and Kalinin is a solid defenseman, but this deal is too good to pass up, IMO. If it ever came up I would take it running.

Edit: I'm talking about the original proposal

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Old
05-18-2007, 05:46 PM
  #48
Zim
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Originally Posted by mgeise88 View Post
Done and done, from the Sabres' perspective. We cut salary and gain a hometown boy and a good, young defenseman. Afinogenov is amazing to watch, and Kalinin is a solid defenseman, but this deal is too good to pass up, IMO. If it ever came up I would take it running.

Edit: I'm talking about the original proposal
sigh of course you would do the 1st proposal it is ridiculously lopsided.

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Old
05-18-2007, 06:20 PM
  #49
gallagt01
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Originally Posted by Snowhawk View Post
I like Roy alot, but I'm not totally sold on MA. Personally I think we've seen all we are going to get from him, which means he is not the type to build the team around.

One problem the Hawks face is that there is no buzz in the city for the Hawks. The first overall pick in the draft, even though it is regarded as a weaker draft can create a little bit of interest, With that said neither Roy or Max will accomplish that. So as other have already stated, if the Hawks trade the No. 1, they need to get a young, top line talent back.
Afinogenov CAN create a buzz.

In fact, he'd get the arena going whenever he's got the puck rushing out of the d-end.

He's exciting.

This trade would leave:

Vrbata-Roy-Havlat
Rutuu-Toews-Afinogenov

That's a rather solid top 6. Hell, sign a banging power forward for that top LW spot, too (Hartnell)

And if Buffalo keeps Drury:

Vanek-Connolly-Pominville
Hecht-Drury-Kotalik

In the top 6. The fourth line center is still manned by Goose, and Buffalo signs a two way center (or trades for one, using Spacek/Kalinin as bait )

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Old
05-18-2007, 06:21 PM
  #50
TehDoak
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You can put the nix on this deal right now. Kane is a boom or bust player, he's gonna be a bonafide #1 center or out of the NHL in 5 years. Would I love to see Buffalo try and get Kane? Sure. But will Regier give up what it will take on a roll of the dice foward? Nope. What I can see Regier doing is moving up in the late first round by moving some of the excess fowards like Kotalik or Connolly to get safe value pick. Chicago should roll the dice on Kane unless a team absolutely overpays for him, something Regier just doesn't have a history of doing.

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