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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Proposal: WAS/CGY

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Old
05-19-2007, 01:25 AM
  #1
*OvechKiN*
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Proposal: WAS/CGY

To WAS:
CGY's 1st '07
Rhett Warrener
David Moss

To CGY:
WAS's 1st '07

Not sure on exact numbers but Calgary would move from approximately 18th to 4th in this years draft, thus getting a talented forward, while giving up Warrener (seems to have fallen out of favour in CGY) and Moss. They can afford to give up Moss because they have maybe guys like Boyd, Taratukhin, Prust, Nystrom who are all ready for the NHL.

Washington may be interested in this deal because Warrener gives them a veteran stay at home defensemen who is supposedly really good locker room leader. Moss is a talented rookie as well. With the likes of Ovechkin, Backstrom and Semin, it seems like someone like Moss would compliment them pretty well.

I dont know, CGY not giving up enough? or giving up too much?

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05-19-2007, 01:40 AM
  #2
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uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

how long does it take the Washington GM to hang up the phone laughing

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05-19-2007, 01:50 AM
  #3
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The Caps shopping the fifth pick for immedate help makes a lot of sense but I don't think this offer does enough for them. Strictly value-wise it's not altogether terrible but there's just not enough coming back in terms of what the Caps are looking for. Moss and Calgary's 1st makes the deal even out but they'd rather be getting back assets that'd make more of an immediate impact. There's an excess of bottom six forwards as it is so Moss wouldn't likely interest them.

Ideally, the Caps would be packaging together something like the fifth pick, Eminger and Fleischmann or Pettinger for as much immediate help as possible in the way of a scoring-line center or an established defenseman. Granted, that's definitely a tall order to pull off but that's moreso the type of move that the Caps would be looking to make in accordance with their offseason priorities. I'd be pleasantly suprised if they were able to fill one of their offseason needs this way but I doubt a suitable trade partner lines up.

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05-19-2007, 02:37 AM
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maybe something centered around Warrener & Lombardi for the caps pick?? Moss being moved in the deal doesn't make alot of sense to me... i'm really not sure what that pick would be worth

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05-19-2007, 03:14 AM
  #5
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You have the right idea... I think Washington wants to have a team NOW. The problem is that the players that they're getting aren't much help to them...if I were Washington making a deal with Calgary, I'd start with someone like Lombardi.

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05-19-2007, 04:26 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cao View Post
You have the right idea... I think Washington wants to have a team NOW. The problem is that the players that they're getting aren't much help to them...if I were Washington making a deal with Calgary, I'd start with someone like Lombardi.
exactly a pretty good younger center with some experience... blazing speed with playmaking ability... i think he would fit in well with AO if they don't have a better option at center (and right now they really don't... then on the blueline they are desperately lacking veteran leadership... im not sure how gritty their guys are on the blueline but even though he isnt as good as he once was Warrener will give everything for his team and is a great presence in the dressing room... and his leadership would be invaluable to their younger defensemen

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05-19-2007, 07:53 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cao View Post
You have the right idea... I think Washington wants to have a team NOW. The problem is that the players that they're getting aren't much help to them...if I were Washington making a deal with Calgary, I'd start with someone like Lombardi.
i agree

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05-19-2007, 11:28 AM
  #8
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If this was a stronger draft year there might be an interest, but there's no way Sutter is going to toss Lombardi into a trade to move up in the draft since there's no immediate help coming.

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05-19-2007, 01:03 PM
  #9
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Why would Calgary tossi n Lombardi? Looking at this years draft, I doubt Calgary is going to pay a lot to get up higher.

Looking from WAS's side, they want to deal their pick away. They want a playoff team right away, with Backstrom signed, and Ovechkin and Semin and Kolzig, they may get somewhere. However there going to want more then that for there first rounder.

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05-19-2007, 01:14 PM
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I am one that am against trading guys like Lombardi and Tanguay even though some people on these boards always try trading them in proposals.
This does give WAS help now as Moss is way more NHL ready than anyone coming out of this draft, and Warrener would help stabilize the defense immediately, as well as the locker room (not that you guys hv locker room issues I dont think).
I dont think Sutter will trade Conroy again even though he is not a No.1 Center. That would just piss Iggy off. Conroy IMO may sign for cheaper after this offseason and be our No.3 Center. We can add David Hale if you guys like! I am not a fan of his, but lots of other flame fans seem to like him. Or even Zyuzin (Hardest shot amongst the flames, he beat out Iggy and Phaneuf )

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05-19-2007, 02:51 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *OvechKiN* View Post
I am one that am against trading guys like Lombardi and Tanguay even though some people on these boards always try trading them in proposals.
This does give WAS help now as Moss is way more NHL ready than anyone coming out of this draft, and Warrener would help stabilize the defense immediately, as well as the locker room (not that you guys hv locker room issues I dont think).
I dont think Sutter will trade Conroy again even though he is not a No.1 Center. That would just piss Iggy off. Conroy IMO may sign for cheaper after this offseason and be our No.3 Center. We can add David Hale if you guys like! I am not a fan of his, but lots of other flame fans seem to like him. Or even Zyuzin (Hardest shot amongst the flames, he beat out Iggy and Phaneuf )
the reason the likes of Lombardi get included in proposals is because he has value... you have to give something to get something... you know its like we included ference & kobasew (at least i would include both) in proposals before they were dealt because they had additional value because of their salaries/contract status...

but in this case Washington's biggest need is a center... there is no reason they should move down in the draft unless they get a center... and this season their top scoring center was kris beech and Lombardi >>>>> Beech... no offense to beech but he just isnt a top 6 center

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05-19-2007, 02:59 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
exactly a pretty good younger center with some experience... blazing speed with playmaking ability... i think he would fit in well with AO if they don't have a better option at center (and right now they really don't... then on the blueline they are desperately lacking veteran leadership... im not sure how gritty their guys are on the blueline but even though he isnt as good as he once was Warrener will give everything for his team and is a great presence in the dressing room... and his leadership would be invaluable to their younger defensemen
I agree completely on Lombardi. A center of his style would be ideal for Ovechkin until Backstrom is ready to step up to the top line.

The Caps need a legit #1-3 d-man and Warrener is a stretch to be described as such. They'd be better served to see how the UFA market pans out if that's the best defenseman available via trade at that point. If nothing materializes in free agency then they could try the trade route again with a little more urgency and a lower standard.

Moss/Hale/Zyuzin just aren't needed, as the Caps have plenty of #4-6 defensemen and bottom six forwards.

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05-19-2007, 03:56 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
the reason the likes of Lombardi get included in proposals is because he has value... you have to give something to get something... you know its like we included ference & kobasew (at least i would include both) in proposals before they were dealt because they had additional value because of their salaries/contract status...

but in this case Washington's biggest need is a center... there is no reason they should move down in the draft unless they get a center... and this season their top scoring center was kris beech and Lombardi >>>>> Beech... no offense to beech but he just isnt a top 6 center
And thats great, but Calgary would get a lot better value for Lombardi if they were going to trade him.

He's a young at 25 scored decently and has an attribute that everyone in the new NHL wants in speed.

Using him to go up in a fairly poor draft year is a silly trade when the Flames likely wouldn't get back a player that would be ready for the nhl for years.

The Flames are in win now mode not win in two years mode.

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05-19-2007, 04:24 PM
  #14
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I'm not saying that it's Lombardi + 1st for just the WAS 1st. That's just a bad deal on Calgary's part. Washington has to give something back too. The main point is that Lombardi is what the Caps are looking for: a fast guy to play with Ovechkin. I think both of them would be an amazing duo.

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05-19-2007, 04:50 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch67 View Post
And thats great, but Calgary would get a lot better value for Lombardi if they were going to trade him.

He's a young at 25 scored decently and has an attribute that everyone in the new NHL wants in speed.

Using him to go up in a fairly poor draft year is a silly trade when the Flames likely wouldn't get back a player that would be ready for the nhl for years.

The Flames are in win now mode not win in two years mode.
the draft isnt that weak in the top 6 or 8 guys... and by trading Lombardi it would free up nearly 2 million in cap space to re-sign Stuart and Hamrlik (or replacements)... and for a team that doesnt have the organizational depth of others maybe picking up a top 5 pick (for the first time in franchise history) would be a smart move

Cao: what kind of things were you thinking about for a deal centering around Lombardi & the Capitals pick?

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05-19-2007, 05:57 PM
  #16
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Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
the draft isnt that weak in the top 6 or 8 guys... and by trading Lombardi it would free up nearly 2 million in cap space to re-sign Stuart and Hamrlik (or replacements)... and for a team that doesnt have the organizational depth of others maybe picking up a top 5 pick (for the first time in franchise history) would be a smart move

Cao: what kind of things were you thinking about for a deal centering around Lombardi & the Capitals pick?
With the people leaving the Flames this season in Amonte, Friesen, McCarty, Hamrlik, Nilson, Ritchie and Stuart, the Flames free up just a shade under 12 million dollars.

With the depth up front being replaced with kids on the farm in boyd, Tarantukin and Prust who are all far cheaper alternatives, and the likelyhood of Stuart not coming back, and Hamrlik wanting a unwarrented raise, the Flames will look elsewhere for blueliners, so the last thing that they're really going to do is trade a 25 year old player to free up cap space. We also haven't gotten the formal announcement of next years cap figure which is certainly going to increase which could give the Flames up to an additional 2 million in breathing space.

We can all look at the apocalypse of the end of next season with the expiration of several high priority contracts, but honestly Sutter is looking at a win next year scenario, and picking top 5 in the draft and dumping a 25 year old 20 goal guy certainly isn't a win now scenario.

The Flames are going to be fairly busy this summer, especially on the free agent market after this seasons debacle.

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05-19-2007, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch67 View Post
With the people leaving the Flames this season in Amonte, Friesen, McCarty, Hamrlik, Nilson, Ritchie and Stuart, the Flames free up just a shade under 12 million dollars.

With the depth up front being replaced with kids on the farm in boyd, Tarantukin and Prust who are all far cheaper alternatives, and the likelyhood of Stuart not coming back, and Hamrlik wanting a unwarrented raise, the Flames will look elsewhere for blueliners, so the last thing that they're really going to do is trade a 25 year old player to free up cap space. We also haven't gotten the formal announcement of next years cap figure which is certainly going to increase which could give the Flames up to an additional 2 million in breathing space.

We can all look at the apocalypse of the end of next season with the expiration of several high priority contracts, but honestly Sutter is looking at a win next year scenario, and picking top 5 in the draft and dumping a 25 year old 20 goal guy certainly isn't a win now scenario.

The Flames are going to be fairly busy this summer, especially on the free agent market after this seasons debacle.
the Flames have pretty good depth down the middle right now... in fact if speculation is correct and Taratukhin is NHL ready then we would have to move Lombardi to the wing anyways... people have speculated about Lombardi's struggles towards the end of the season after Conroy was acquired and they attributed it to him being moved to the 3rd line... but i have this feeling it was more to do with being in a new position... i think it would be better for him and the flames to move him to a team where he can be a center and play top 6 minutes... this would not only free up cap space right now but next season as well... and IMO that is more important than this season's space because as you know cap space isn't much of an issue for 07-08 especially with it likely rising to 47-50 million... and lets face it even with 15 million in cap space 2 top 4 defenseman and probably a top 6 forward will eat up the large majority of that cap space

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05-19-2007, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
the Flames have pretty good depth down the middle right now... in fact if speculation is correct and Taratukhin is NHL ready then we would have to move Lombardi to the wing anyways... people have speculated about Lombardi's struggles towards the end of the season after Conroy was acquired and they attributed it to him being moved to the 3rd line... but i have this feeling it was more to do with being in a new position... i think it would be better for him and the flames to move him to a team where he can be a center and play top 6 minutes... this would not only free up cap space right now but next season as well... and IMO that is more important than this season's space because as you know cap space isn't much of an issue for 07-08 especially with it likely rising to 47-50 million... and lets face it even with 15 million in cap space 2 top 4 defenseman and probably a top 6 forward will eat up the large majority of that cap space
If the theory is going to be that we trade Lombo to a team that can give him top 6 minutes then its logical that the Flames would want something valuable in return.

He maybe Washington can send us Chris Clark and a high draft pick back

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05-19-2007, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch67 View Post
If the theory is going to be that we trade Lombo to a team that can give him top 6 minutes then its logical that the Flames would want something valuable in return.

He maybe Washington can send us Chris Clark and a high draft pick back
i dont even know if we need something valuable back... if we packaged Lombardi and Warrener it would free up over 4 million in 08-09 and if we also swapped picks as well maybe we could get a decent 3rd line winger with speed or a half decent wing or defense prospect as well

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05-19-2007, 10:58 PM
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i dont even know if we need something valuable back... if we packaged Lombardi and Warrener it would free up over 4 million in 08-09 and if we also swapped picks as well maybe we could get a decent 3rd line winger with speed or a half decent wing or defense prospect as well
To me thats terrible asset management, especially from Lombardi's point of view. Even with Warrener you should get something back for him based on his past reputation.

Lombardi's value is pretty high and you take advantage of it, you don't just throw it away, and even if his new contract is 1.8 mil per year for three years, thats pretty low compared to some of the other contracts out there for less able players.

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05-20-2007, 07:13 AM
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uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

how long does it take the Washington GM to hang up the phone laughing

He never even answers it.

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05-20-2007, 01:56 PM
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To me thats terrible asset management, especially from Lombardi's point of view. Even with Warrener you should get something back for him based on his past reputation.

Lombardi's value is pretty high and you take advantage of it, you don't just throw it away, and even if his new contract is 1.8 mil per year for three years, thats pretty low compared to some of the other contracts out there for less able players.
please explain how that is "terrible asset management" when next summer the flames have Iginla, Kiprusoff, Regehr, Huselius, Langkow, Conroy, Yelle and Zyuzin becoming UFAs... I'm sorry but when 4 of your top 6 forwards and your top defenseman are going to be unrestricted free agents you need to have cap space to sign them or sign someone to replace them... that problem is compounded when you factor in Phaneuf will be a RFA and could very easily earn 5 times his current cap hit

sure you might mismanage 1 asset but it gives you the ability to keep even more assets in the near future... too many GMs think in the now not 1 or 2 years down the road

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05-21-2007, 02:13 AM
  #23
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He never even answers it.
I'm willing to bet Sutter values Warrener and Moss a lot more than moving up in a crap draft and thus the phone never rings. Warrener had a tough year with back problems but is still a good 3-4 dman and Sutter favorite, Moss showed he belongs in the NHL and is cheap...please explain why this would be even close to a good deal for the Flames?

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05-21-2007, 03:16 AM
  #24
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I dunno, probably someone like Klepis would interest Calgary, since he's basically a downgraded Lombardi. Then Calgary could probably add a midpick.

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05-21-2007, 10:16 AM
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Washington already has a version of David Moss (and former Flame) Chris Clark. Clark has better skating, probably not as good hands and wouldn't park on the door step quit as much. Moss is still on the rise. Because of that, it's best to leave him on the team to see how he'll develop. Neither Prust nor Nystrom should have as much offensive upside.

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