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Vinny and Tortorella at it again ...

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Old
12-23-2003, 06:57 PM
  #1
John Flyers Fan
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Vinny and Tortorella at it again ...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/recap?gameId=231223001

BOSTON (AP) -- Tampa Bay coach John Tortorella benched star forward Vincent Lecavalier to prove a point.

Whether it worked or not remains to be seen, but it certainly sparked some bad blood between the two.

Lecavalier didn't shoot the puck during a three-on-two and was punished for it.

"An awful call," Lecavalier said of Tortorella's decision. "Offensively, I go with my instincts. If I think the play is to make a play, that's what I do. It didn't work out. I'm just going to keep playing hard. If I get benched for it, that's fine."

Tortorella fired back.

"Interesting. It wasn't the proper call?" he said. "Let's forget about the backhanded turnover. Let's talk about trying to play hard.

"He's got to start playing in the team concept. I don't care who he is or who he thinks he is."

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Old
12-23-2003, 07:21 PM
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so who's gonna be the first out of Tmapa you think Vinny or John? or will they work this out when they have to save Christmas because someone kidnapped Santa, THAT DOES SO NOT ROCK!!!!!!!!!!

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Old
12-23-2003, 07:26 PM
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Isn't this the kind of garbage that saw Dudley get escorted out of Tampa? or rather why he wanted to trade him?

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Old
12-23-2003, 07:27 PM
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The whole team just isnt playing right now and I think frustrations are just running high in this situation. Something needs to get this team going and maybe a pissed off Lecavalier is what this team needs to turn it around. Outside of this incident there has been nothing in the papers about a rift so I dont think theres too much to read into it. Theyve been playing horrible outside of that game in Philly last Thursday. They cant score a goal to save their lives even with their offensive talent up front that was so hot to start the season.

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Old
12-23-2003, 07:33 PM
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Whatever happened to players that the reason they sit is because they made a mistake?

And why can't coaches and players settle their differences anymore? Hell, Steve Yzerman hated Bowman's guts before 97 and they were always butting heads yet still played the way the coach wanted.

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Old
12-23-2003, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClashCitiRockr
Isn't this the kind of garbage that saw Dudley get escorted out of Tampa? or rather why he wanted to trade him?
It was more of a sum of things, the mere thought of trading Mr. Franchise being the last straw.

Heeeeere come the trade rumors.

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Old
12-23-2003, 08:38 PM
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To Ottawa for Bonk and a prospect ?

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Old
12-23-2003, 08:56 PM
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at least give them a chance to save Santa and Christmas first before tradding him guys!

otherwise the world will be fileld with kids who will look like this

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Old
12-23-2003, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSJTOM
at least give them a chance to save Santa and Christmas first before tradding him guys!

otherwise the world will be fileld with kids who will look like this
Scary looking kids^^^^

they remind of 28days later....

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Old
12-23-2003, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaMick
Scary looking kids^^^^

they remind of 28days later....
I never saw that movie...Was it any good?

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Old
12-23-2003, 11:05 PM
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I don't think these two can co-exist anymore.

Vinny is not ready to take the next step. With his attitude and (lack of) character, he may never be but that's not impossible. He's really one of the very talented youngsters in this league, has absolutely all the tools except above the shoulders and under the jockstrap.

Simply put, no matter how good Tortorella might be (and I think he is an average coach), Vinny is going to need guidance from a leader on the ice. That is why I think the Lightning most pressing need is a veteran forward and not a defenseman. The ideal guy would be a veteran, play hard and be a leader.

I don't get why the team wastes its time with Cory Stillman instead of signing a completely FREE agent like Stumpy, who was rotting for a long time until the Wings gave him a chance. He's not the ideal guy but it would have been preferable IMO.

The ideal guy would be able not only to score goals but to set up Vinny, who has a killer shot. A guy who has grit so that big goof starts using his body more.

The way lecavalier is going through the motion, I'd change his nickname from Prince Vince to UnderachieVince. It's sick. And while Vinny didn't have a backbone to begin with, management has to share part of the blame, mostly Dudley and his obsession with losing.

usually, I am in no hurry for development. I RARELY say that the clock is ticking. In Vinny's case however, I think this is a pressing matter. The clock is ticking because at this stage, you need to develop your character and mold yourself into a winner. He is at that critical stage where you instill these values. He should be hungry NOW.

This is why I have always been hard on Vinny. A world of talent but doesn't use half of it, half of the time if not more. I garantee if this guy had been drafted by (or traded to) the Dallas Stars in 98, right now he'd be a different player.

One other risky solution is to fire Tortorella and bring on Keenan. If Iron Mike can't shape up this loser into a player, NOBODY can. Keenan often enjoys playing a high tempo game and the Lightning were (not too successfully but still) built just for that. Plus there's the whole Cats-Bolts rivalry that would benefit from such a move.

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Old
12-24-2003, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/recap?gameId=231223001

BOSTON (AP) -- Tampa Bay coach John Tortorella benched star forward Vincent Lecavalier to prove a point.

Whether it worked or not remains to be seen, but it certainly sparked some bad blood between the two.

Lecavalier didn't shoot the puck during a three-on-two and was punished for it.

"An awful call," Lecavalier said of Tortorella's decision. "Offensively, I go with my instincts. If I think the play is to make a play, that's what I do. It didn't work out. I'm just going to keep playing hard. If I get benched for it, that's fine."

Tortorella fired back.

"Interesting. It wasn't the proper call?" he said. "Let's forget about the backhanded turnover. Let's talk about trying to play hard.

"He's got to start playing in the team concept. I don't care who he is or who he thinks he is."
Just come to the Rags Vinny. You can float all you want and have one of the kids get benched for yourself.

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Old
12-24-2003, 04:02 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
One other risky solution is to fire Tortorella and bring on Keenan. If Iron Mike can't shape up this loser into a player, NOBODY can. Keenan often enjoys playing a high tempo game and the Lightning were (not too successfully but still) built just for that. Plus there's the whole Cats-Bolts rivalry that would benefit from such a move.
While Keenan might be able to turn around Vinny, he'll probably cause more damage to some of the other young players on that team. We all saw it first hand with Keenan...he turned around Jokinen but hurt guys like Weiss & Huselius. So please hire him Bolts so we don't have to keep paying him anymore

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Old
12-24-2003, 04:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #37-#93-#27
Just come to the Rags Vinny. You can float all you want and have one of the kids get benched for yourself.
He's far too young .... he'll be a Rag in 2012 :p .

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Old
12-24-2003, 04:31 AM
  #15
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Originally Posted by PigPen
Whatever happened to players that the reason they sit is because they made a mistake?

And why can't coaches and players settle their differences anymore? Hell, Steve Yzerman hated Bowman's guts before 97 and they were always butting heads yet still played the way the coach wanted.
The difference anymore is Yzerman is a man and like a lot of young, highly touted players, Vinny is a spoiled brat. He wants his ego caressed. Remember when hockey was a mans game?

The players demanded more money because the owners were getting rich off of these guys. Now look at them. The players make all the money and have become complacent. Aren't business owners supposed to get rich? Isn't it because of them that they are playing a game for a living? They won't have to work a regular job ever and the league is trying to keep them safe from harm. How backasswards is that? If a regular person jeopadizes his career he can lose everything. If an athlete jeopadizes his career he doesn't get that second or third or fourth house.

Please go to the Rags. They need a nother soft, ineffective "superstar" to round out the line-up.

 
Old
12-24-2003, 05:05 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #37-#93-#27
Just come to the Rags Vinny. You can float all you want and have one of the kids get benched for yourself.


Thanks, I needed a laugh after reading all this garbage.

You people who are ragging on Vinny's personality really need to get a grip. Criticize his play all you want, god knows he deserves it, but don't speculate about things you don't know about.

Speaking of his play, Vinny is SOFT? That's news to me!

This was one Torts' press conference I would have paid to see. A ticked off Torts is truly a sight to behold. The article in the Tampa Trib today was much more expletive filled than this watered down ESPN story which doesn't even give the real reason he got benched.

Keenan? Yeah right. Like Tampa's power play isn't bad enough already. No thanks.

Oh well, we've been there, done that with this business already. No doubt this will start the rumor mill up again.

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Old
12-24-2003, 05:14 AM
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I don't really care either way what happens to Vinny or the Lightning, but I think this situation is problematic, in the sense that coaches having to justify motivational and "disciplinary" measures they use to get an underperforming player or team going again. Torts has every right to use whatever tactic he feels is necessary (within reason) to motivate Lecavalier.


Last edited by Rabid Ranger: 12-24-2003 at 06:28 AM.
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Old
12-24-2003, 05:47 AM
  #18
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Im not pissed at Torts for benching a player, what Im pissed at is Torts would not have benched Modin or St.Louis or even a 3rdliner like Clymer if it would have been him insted of Lecavalier.

Hopefully Feaster can smooth this all over before the Lightning board gets covered with Vinny for Briesbois and a pic threads.

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Old
12-24-2003, 05:55 AM
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You mean Tampa's precious Vinny isn't flawless??? OMG! ALERT THE PRESS!

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Old
12-24-2003, 05:57 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
I don't think these two can co-exist anymore.

Vinny is not ready to take the next step. With his attitude and (lack of) character, he may never be but that's not impossible. He's really one of the very talented youngsters in this league, has absolutely all the tools except above the shoulders and under the jockstrap.

Simply put, no matter how good Tortorella might be (and I think he is an average coach), Vinny is going to need guidance from a leader on the ice. That is why I think the Lightning most pressing need is a veteran forward and not a defenseman. The ideal guy would be a veteran, play hard and be a leader.

I don't get why the team wastes its time with Cory Stillman instead of signing a completely FREE agent like Stumpy, who was rotting for a long time until the Wings gave him a chance. He's not the ideal guy but it would have been preferable IMO.

The ideal guy would be able not only to score goals but to set up Vinny, who has a killer shot. A guy who has grit so that big goof starts using his body more.

The way lecavalier is going through the motion, I'd change his nickname from Prince Vince to UnderachieVince. It's sick. And while Vinny didn't have a backbone to begin with, management has to share part of the blame, mostly Dudley and his obsession with losing.

usually, I am in no hurry for development. I RARELY say that the clock is ticking. In Vinny's case however, I think this is a pressing matter. The clock is ticking because at this stage, you need to develop your character and mold yourself into a winner. He is at that critical stage where you instill these values. He should be hungry NOW.

This is why I have always been hard on Vinny. A world of talent but doesn't use half of it, half of the time if not more. I garantee if this guy had been drafted by (or traded to) the Dallas Stars in 98, right now he'd be a different player.

One other risky solution is to fire Tortorella and bring on Keenan. If Iron Mike can't shape up this loser into a player, NOBODY can. Keenan often enjoys playing a high tempo game and the Lightning were (not too successfully but still) built just for that. Plus there's the whole Cats-Bolts rivalry that would benefit from such a move.

Since when is character necessary to be a winner? See Patrick Roy.

I don't think the Lecavalier/Tortorella conflict is untenable at this point, despite this latest war of words. This is on the same level as Roenick yapping about Hitchcock being a control freak, and no-one's talking about that.

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Old
12-24-2003, 06:02 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
One other risky solution is to fire Tortorella and bring on Keenan. If Iron Mike can't shape up this loser into a player, NOBODY can. Keenan often enjoys playing a high tempo game and the Lightning were (not too successfully but still) built just for that. Plus there's the whole Cats-Bolts rivalry that would benefit from such a move.
This isn't a horrendous idea. There aren't really any soft, streaky forwards in Tampa Bay that Keenan will pummel into the ground. I mean, maybe Afanasenkov...but seriously, that's a small price to pay for a geared-up Vince.

Furthermore, could you imagine what Keenan could do to Svitov? *drool*

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Old
12-24-2003, 06:12 AM
  #22
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...... This is on the same level as Roenick yapping about Hitchcock being a control freak, and no-one's talking about that.
Not really. Hitch didn't bench Roenick and they seemed to have worked it out without "help" from the press. Roenick even said his statements were taken the wrong way.

 
Old
12-24-2003, 06:14 AM
  #23
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Thank you, BES, for some rare objectivity in this thread. So much overreaction, so much personal garbage being spewed here. Jeez! There are, however, several problems with Keenan. He wouldn't have any trouble with Afanasenkov, who works very hard and is very coachable. It's Richards and Stillman I think would be in deep doo-doo under Keenan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick
Im not pissed at Torts for benching a player, what Im pissed at is Torts would not have benched Modin or St.Louis or even a 3rdliner like Clymer if it would have been him insted of Lecavalier.
The difference is that the other players aren't displaying a troublesome pattern of aversion to coaching. The team was specifically instructed to shoot from all angles last night and Vinny blew it on an odd-man rush. Torts benched him for the second period. No big whoop.

The only qualm I have with Tortorella is that he focuses too much on Vinny. Granted, it's because Lecavalier is clearly the team's top talent. But IMO there are other troublesome patterns Tortorella is choosing to ignore (for now) such as the lack of grit consistently displayed by Brad Richards and Cory Stillman or the lack of any semblance of a game from Ruslan Fedotenko or the mystery benching of Shane Willis. This team has a lot of problems, actually. Vinny just gets the most press.

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12-24-2003, 06:50 AM
  #24
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The only qualm I have with Tortorella is that he focuses too much on Vinny. This team has a lot of problems, actually. Vinny just gets the most press.
Isn't Vinny the Captain? If he is that would be why he's focusing on him. You HAVE to get the captain on page or having him as captain isn't going to be as effective as he could be. If he's taking shots at the coach there is a real leadership problem. It may be the coach, but Vinny doesn't know enough about enough to give him credit for insight. He needs to get on page and keep his criticism behind closed doors. If it doesn't work, you look at the coach.

 
Old
12-24-2003, 07:03 AM
  #25
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Dave Andreychuk is captain.

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