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Vinny and Tortorella at it again ...

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Old
12-24-2003, 06:05 AM
  #26
Rattrick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanKordicsFist
Isn't Vinny the Captain?
The C was removed the first time he went through all this garbage.

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Old
12-24-2003, 06:21 AM
  #27
Douggy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Lecavalier didn't shoot the puck during a three-on-two and was punished for it.

"An awful call," Lecavalier said of Tortorella's decision. "Offensively, I go with my instincts. If I think the play is to make a play, that's what I do. It didn't work out. I'm just going to keep playing hard. If I get benched for it, that's fine."

Tortorella fired back.

...

"He's got to start playing in the team concept. I don't care who he is or who he thinks he is."
I didn't see the play, but he DIDN'T shoot on the 3-on-2 and now he's not a team player?

People may not like the guy for whatever reason, but he deserves the opportunity to be creative in the offensive zone. He'll make mistakes, he'll learn. Benching him for those mistakes is not the solution.

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12-24-2003, 06:31 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSJTOM
I never saw that movie...Was it any good?
Since the thread has gone off topic from whether 28 days later was any good, I'll take it upon myself to bring it back on topic and say that yeah it was pretty good. Different from the usual Hollywood fluff.

If you rent the DVD check to see if they have the alternate ending on there. I didn't find out about it until after I had returned it to the video store and was mighty pissed.

WARNING: I am slightly biased since it was done by the same guy that did the very best movie ever in the history of film making, Trainspotting.

My apologies to all other directors who are offended by my statement.

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Old
12-24-2003, 06:31 AM
  #29
DanKordicsFist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luongofan
The C was removed the first time he went through all this garbage.
My bad. I hate when teams heap a the responsibility on youngsters shoulders. I'm actually glad for him not to be the captain, but it sounds like Tort still expects him to be.

 
Old
12-24-2003, 06:31 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Douggy
I didn't see the play, but he DIDN'T shoot on the 3-on-2 and now he's not a team player?

People may not like the guy for whatever reason, but he deserves the opportunity to be creative in the offensive zone. He'll make mistakes, he'll learn. Benching him for those mistakes is not the solution.
I don't think that was the reason he was benched...

Excerpt from the Tampa Trib:

``Let's forget about the backhand turnover that I've seen all year long, let's forget about that,'' Tortorella said. ``What about the [expletive] effort in the end zone after watching everybody battle trying to keep the puck out of our net?

``Let's not even talk about instincts, let's talk about simply playing hard. I'm tired of the whining because we've been patient. So what he says, I really don't give a [expletive]. He has got to start learning again to play with intensity and under the team concept, plain and simple. If he doesn't, he sits. I don't give a [expletive] who he is, or who he thinks he is.''

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12-24-2003, 07:30 AM
  #31
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In short:

ESPN is as bad as most NHL owners when it comes to spin.

The rest of the Trib article:
http://bolts.tbo.com/lightning/MGACZPDYKOD.html


DanKordicsFist: Vinny lost his C because he was, quite frankly, too young to be wearing one and he wasn't a leader on or off the ice. Giving him the C in the first place, as I recall, wasn't Torts' or Feaster's doing, either.


Last edited by 1Timer: 12-24-2003 at 07:36 AM.
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Old
12-24-2003, 07:49 AM
  #32
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Giving Vinny the C was one of Rick Dudley's many mistakes.

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Old
12-24-2003, 07:52 AM
  #33
Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit
Since when is character necessary to be a winner? See Patrick Roy.
That's one of those confusing moments brought to you by the weird differences between French and English.

In French, "caractère" often means "strength of the mind, strength of the soul, firmness in action"

In English I think it is used for "being moral, ethical". But I tend to forget that.

If this is where the confusion arises, my apologies. I can't find an English word. Hopefully you get what I mean :p

In French, Roy has a lot of "caractère".

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Old
12-24-2003, 08:16 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick
Giving Vinny the C was one of Rick Dudley's many mistakes.
Yea, because he was really coaching the team and as we all know, the GMs always pick the Captains.

Anyway, I saw this on Sportscenter and lets just say that the online version is a little easier. Tortorella said "I don't give a damn who the **** the thinks he is".

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Old
12-24-2003, 08:23 AM
  #35
Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sotnos
Thanks, I needed a laugh after reading all this garbage.

You people who are ragging on Vinny's personality really need to get a grip. Criticize his play all you want, god knows he deserves it, but don't speculate about things you don't know about.

If we knew about them, that wouldn't be speculation, would it

I don't know if you are refering to my comments or the ones of others or all of them.

But I'll explain where I'm coming a little.

First I have seen many interviews with this guy before he was even drafted in the NHL. I've followed his junior career as much as I could, both live and on TV. Watched him as much as I could and the talent is unbelievable.

And I believe criticizing VInny's play is pretty tough without criticizing his personality. That doesn't mean Vinny isn't a nice guy. He seems really like a great fellow. Polite, honest, etc.

He does seem a little spoiled at times as indicated by contract negociations, nasty rumored that he may have asked for a trade. That's the part I *could* speculate about but don't really care to because too many stones are unturned.

But I do think there are times where Vinny is just sulking instead of competing. And he sulks too often for a player of his calibre and experience for my tastes.

I believe he can do much more. I believe a player like this should carry linemates yet it looks like Vinny is still dependent on linemates. I can understand that some greatly talented unidimensional snipers for instance, might need a setup guy. But Vinny is well-rounded enough that he *could* do it all himself. The guy has the shot, passing ability, speed and physical edge to carry linemates.

When things aren't going your way on the scoreboard, you gotta put those tools he has to good use. I've seen countless guys like Shanahan do it back in his younger days. When he was having a bad night scoring-wise *and* defensively, he'd lash out at opponents. He'd try to take the body more than usual. He'd try *something*.

When things aren't going Vinny's way, he just skates around. Of course he's trying something but it just doesn't seem like he has that edge competitors have.

And I've said it last year, even when he was hot, I have doubts about his conditioning. He'd get back to the bench after short shift and doesn't seem to have anything left in the tank. I find that disappointing. Players of his talent level need to make sure they can handle lots of ice time.

Conditioning is that thing you work on, in the off-season. It's something athletes have to work a lot have. Having that mindset is again a question of personality sometimes.

I dunno. I see enough things out there that I feel I can speculate on his personality, question his confidence level and maturity. It's not that I hate the guy. I believe in his talent and I think he is throwing it away when he plays without a modicum of passion and determination.

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Old
12-24-2003, 08:28 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luongofan
Yea, because he was really coaching the team and as we all know, the GMs always pick the Captains.

".
Dudley picked Lecavalier.

Ludzik wasnt a real head coach anyway, just a yes man thats probably why hes working for Dudley again.

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Old
12-24-2003, 08:38 AM
  #37
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...but Vinny's Tampa's Franchise player this can't be happening Sucks for all of you lightning fans and no offense, but there is a lot of pleasure in watching this unfold as just a few days ago, people talk about how the Panthers suck and should be contracted and how the lightning are so superior. Also, how Vinny is the franchise's most important player and is like a god to all of the Tampa fans. LOL, I'll just sit back and let the franchise collapse.

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Old
12-24-2003, 08:53 AM
  #38
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Wow. Sounds like someone has a serious Napoleonic Complex.

Chin-up, kiddo.

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Old
12-24-2003, 08:54 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sotnos
You people who are ragging on Vinny's personality really need to get a grip. Criticize his play all you want, god knows he deserves it, but don't speculate about things you don't know about.
Wow, truly one of the great posters on this site. He made this point and no one seem to care: you guys are starting rumors from nothing. Lecavalier isn't going anywhere, and Fonzie isn't going anywhere. This is your classic player/coach tiff that will ultimately get Lecavalier doing what the Fonzie: playing harder, and playing with that fire once again. This is the exactly the type of *expletive* this team needed, because I'm sure the entire "play harder" dribble wasn't just meant for Vinny.

Nobody, I mean nobody, beats the Fonz. 'Eyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy...

Well, nobody but Andy Murray

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Old
12-24-2003, 09:49 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick
Dudley picked Lecavalier.

Ludzik wasnt a real head coach anyway, just a yes man thats probably why hes working for Dudley again.
Unless I'm mistaken, Dudley did not make the Lecavalier pick.

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Old
12-24-2003, 09:59 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeyfan02
Unless I'm mistaken, Dudley did not make the Lecavalier pick.
Dudley picked him as captain is what he meant, not in the draft.

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Old
12-24-2003, 10:15 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
That's one of those confusing moments brought to you by the weird differences between French and English.

In French, "caractère" often means "strength of the mind, strength of the soul, firmness in action"

In English I think it is used for "being moral, ethical". But I tend to forget that.

If this is where the confusion arises, my apologies. I can't find an English word. Hopefully you get what I mean :p

In French, Roy has a lot of "caractère".
It means the same in English. Some people confuse it for moral fiber. Not everyone who has character is moral. Not everyone who is moral has character. I think someone was just trying to get a late shot in at Roy.

 
Old
12-24-2003, 10:19 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Timer
Wow. Sounds like someone has a serious Napoleonic Complex.

Chin-up, kiddo.
Sorry, I couldn't resist

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Old
12-24-2003, 10:29 AM
  #44
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Vlad my good man, I was referring to several posters, not just you, when I said people shouldn't be trashing Vincent's personality. You could be his cousin or childhood friend for all I know! I probably should have said, don't claim as fact what you can only speculate about, fair? What I mean is: most of us are only going by appearances, and what appears to some people to be pouting or lack of heart (or cajones) appears to a LOT of Bolts fans to be a boiling over of frustrations that he's been dealing with since he came to this team.

This is not to say I disagree with the coach. I could live without some of his methods because they contribute to the problems more than they help resolve them IMO. But, obviously this was some sort of "last straw" for Vinny, because he never lashes out at the coach in the press like this. I can understand where Vinny's coming from, even though he might not be right, I can see how he might think he's being singled out. I saw a good point made by a Bolts fan on another board that the REAL problem is that Vinny sees nothing wrong with his play, and his Coach seems unable to communicate to him what the problem is and what he needs to do to fix it. Since that's Torts' job, he needs to find a way to get through to this kid.

Right now, I'd just like to bang both their heads together and tell them to grow up and keep it behind closed doors, we don't need to hear this kind of crap.

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Old
12-24-2003, 10:00 PM
  #45
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Hey, how much longer does he have on his contract? Its about 2.5 mil right? Hmmmm, I'm thinking if Calgary STILL (don't ask me why) wants to trade Iginla in the summer and can't sign him for anything less than his 7 mill qualifier (and yes its 7 mill don't argue or I'll break out the facts ), Then how about a Lecavalier ++ for Iginla? Can the contracts get evened out at all? I don't think Lecavalier would be a 'Sutter fav' type, but sometimes a deal like that can wake up a guy and change him.

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Old
12-25-2003, 02:59 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kruezer
Hey, how much longer does he have on his contract? Its about 2.5 mil right? Hmmmm, I'm thinking if Calgary STILL (don't ask me why) wants to trade Iginla in the summer and can't sign him for anything less than his 7 mill qualifier (and yes its 7 mill don't argue or I'll break out the facts ), Then how about a Lecavalier ++ for Iginla? Can the contracts get evened out at all? I don't think Lecavalier would be a 'Sutter fav' type, but sometimes a deal like that can wake up a guy and change him.
Shouldn't it rather be Iginla ++ for Lecavalier, considering the salaries?

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12-25-2003, 07:51 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strizzi
Shouldn't it rather be Iginla ++ for Lecavalier, considering the salaries?
Well, I'd think maybe a pick with Iginla, but I'm thinking TB would probably want to trade another salary to make things more equal.

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