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Why is CSKA so quiet?

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Old
12-23-2003, 06:28 PM
  #1
Siberian
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Why is CSKA so quiet?

I just think that Columbus paid the money CSKA wanted for Zherdev. There is no word on Zherdev from CSKA management recently. Maybe it is perhaps BJ's decided not to take it to arbitration and just pay whatever CSKA asked? I would not think CSKA would want a lot for Zherdev, maybe half a mil? And now both sides are happy.

CSKA actually improved quite a bit since Zherdev took off. They now got Berezin, former Maple Leaf and Capital.

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12-23-2003, 07:55 PM
  #2
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Maybe CSKA has finally realized that all the "military" BS they were talking is catching up with them...

Here read this...
http://www.rushockey.com/events.php?...ihf_news&id=55

Not even one word mentioned about his "military" commitments.

And it would be CSKA who would have to request an arbitration hearing... Why would Columbus. They are happy with the way things are.

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12-23-2003, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siberian
I just think that Columbus paid the money CSKA wanted for Zherdev. There is no word on Zherdev from CSKA management recently. Maybe it is perhaps BJ's decided not to take it to arbitration and just pay whatever CSKA asked? I would not think CSKA would want a lot for Zherdev, maybe half a mil? And now both sides are happy.
This just in - a press conference held Wednesday morning by the Russian Hockey Federation has revealed the final settlement price paid by the Columbus Blue Jackets for Nikolai Zherdev. A certain moose and a flying squirrel were turned over to the Russian authorities by the CIA as compensation for the Blue Jackets "theft" of Zherdev. Here is a picture from the press conference, featuring the leaders of the Russian Hockey Federation, along with their "compensation":




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12-24-2003, 07:28 AM
  #4
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Mabye they realized they didnt have a case against Zherdev...

A few threads back, you mentoned that Ovechkin would never play with Zherdev. Im curious as to why this is and if it has any merit. Care to explain?

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12-24-2003, 10:02 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zherdev Fan
Mabye they realized they didnt have a case against Zherdev...

A few threads back, you mentoned that Ovechkin would never play with Zherdev. Im curious as to why this is and if it has any merit. Care to explain?
Who says they don't have a case here? They can't get him back because you can't force him play for a team he does not want to play for. But they have a case where Zherdev will not be allowed to play for the remainder of the season. Columbus does not want that not because they need Zherdev but because if Zherdev stops playing there can be 500 people popping up at the ticket office demanding refund on their season tickets explaining that they bought them only because of Zherdev participation. It is all about the money. So I would assume Columbus would be better off paying CSKA half a mil than going to arbitration with possible loss of Zherdev. In fact I think this is exactly what happened because CSKA managers were very vocal on daily basis and all of the sudden they just stopped. I think this conflict is resolved.

As for Ovechkin not wanting to play with Zherdev is because there is no respect for Zherdev among Russian players both in NHL and Russia for what Nikolai has done. He let down hic club, coach, teammates in CSKA, teammates in Russian U-20 squad where he was named captain. I don't think there is lots of love for Nikolai from all the players on Russian National team and I don't see now that Ovechkin would be glad to join Nikolay, Ovechkin is very pro-Russia and patriotic person.

But personally now I see this as a wise move. Zherdev was turning into a high number draft bust. Imagine the numbers he was putting for CSKA and what if he failed to deliver at WJC then his career in NHL could have been over. His agent really felt the situation and just did not want to lose the money. It is funny but his mom in Kiev in an interview said that Nikolai phoned her and said he needs to go now or in 2 years noone in NHL will remember him. I guess Tyzhnykh really senses the lockout.


Last edited by Siberian: 12-24-2003 at 10:40 AM.
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12-24-2003, 10:58 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siberian
Columbus does not want that not because they need Zherdev but because if Zherdev stops playing there can be 500 people popping up at the ticket office demanding refund on their season tickets explaining that they bought them only because of Zherdev participation.



I'm having a pretty hard time picturing that, bro.

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12-24-2003, 11:18 AM
  #7
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Originally Posted by fan-o-45
I'm having a pretty hard time picturing that, bro.
Well, that is your own problem. Check the attendance. It is dropping. I am sure there are some of the people who bought the season tickets when Zherdev joined the club. If he won't play they will have a good argument to get the refund. Why is this so hard to picture for you? The team sucks, some people would want the money back.

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12-24-2003, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siberian
Well, that is your own problem. Check the attendance. It is dropping. I am sure there are some of the people who bought the season tickets when Zherdev joined the club. If he won't play they will have a good argument to get the refund. Why is this so hard to picture for you? The team sucks, some people would want the money back.
Who the hell buys season tickets 30 games into a season? That kind of defeats the idea of "season" tickets. The ticket office wouldn't even let you do such a thing.

Try again. No, wait, scratch that, don't try again....just go away.

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12-24-2003, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJAnimosity
Who the hell buys season tickets 30 games into a season? That kind of defeats the idea of "season" tickets. The ticket office wouldn't even let you do such a thing.
How can I argue with people who know nothing about NHL hockey. Have you ever bought a ticket yourself, Einstein? The season tickets as well as different ticket packages are available during the whole year.

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12-24-2003, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siberian
How can I argue with people who know nothing about NHL hockey. Have you ever bought a ticket yourself, Einstein? The season tickets as well as different ticket packages are available during the whole year.
Sibby, I was conveying the point that as much as you like to talk about the Zherdev "hype", this kid was hardly built up to be the next "great one" here in Columbus, and I really doubt anyone, much less fans numbering in the hundreds, bought season tickets for the soul purpose of seeing him play.

And yes, attendence is dropping, hardly suprising considering the team pretty much sucks, but it was sucking pretty good before Nikolai showed up, anyway.
And although I don't own them, would someone here please tell me if season tickets are refundable at all? I can't imagine they are, let alone on the argument that "All I wanted to do was watch "so and so" play, so if you're not gonna play him I want my money back....." ????? Financially, that kind of policy wouldn't make much sense. But, I don't really know for sure.

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12-24-2003, 05:57 PM
  #11
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Where do you get he idea that people are coming to see Zherdev? Attendence has been the same or worse since he got here (no raise in "season tickets" or just regular "walk up buyers"), and I haven't seen anyone with a Zherdev jersey (which you seem to think are just flying off the shelves).

People come to see what Nash is going to do next, that's really the only reason to watch the team this year. Zherdev isn't in any kind of spotlight and he has hardly any pressure to carry the team on his back.

I highly doubt MacLean gave CSKA money. He called the moves that Tampa Bay and Anaheim did to get Svitov and Chistov out as "weak". He's too proud to give a bunch of money grabbing ******** in Russia what the want. The army papers are bogus, and that would be the only reason why CSKA would see any money. IIHF probably told CSKA to zip their mouth or the Russian national teams could fave sanctions. That seems must more likely to happen than MacLean writing CSKA a check.

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12-24-2003, 09:16 PM
  #12
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Originally Posted by fan-o-45
Sibby, I was conveying the point that as much as you like to talk about the Zherdev "hype", this kid was hardly built up to be the next "great one" here in Columbus, and I really doubt anyone, much less fans numbering in the hundreds, bought season tickets for the soul purpose of seeing him play.
fan-o-45: Thank you - well said.

I will address Siberian's question re: season ticket refunds, since I have been a season ticket holder for three seasons now. Here are some basic facts on how season tickets work:

Season ticket holders are required to have their tickets for the entire season paid for in full before the season even starts. Once they are received, they become assets to the season ticket holder, who are free to use them as they please. If a season ticket holder is unable or unwilling to attend a game that they have already paid for, it is up to themselves alone to find someone to buy or use them.

In addition, there are some ticket packages made available to non-season ticket holders, usually in three or six game packages. Again, before these fans can receive these tickets, they have to be paid for in full. These packages can either be bought before or during the season. Again, if an owner of one of these packages is unable or unwilling to attend a game that they have already paid for, it is up to themselves alone to find someone to buy or use them.

In both cases, the Blue Jackets are under no legal obligation to refund tickets already paid for by their fans, no more so if Zherdev is barred from playing anymore this season, versus a popular player getting an injury that puts him out for the season. If I were to ask the Blue Jackets for a refund based on either premise, they would tell me, "Tough luck."

Of course, if a season ticket holder isn't happy with the team's performance, their only recourse is to not renew their season tickets for the next season.

Siberian, your fascination with Zherdev and his situation is quite impressive. I'm willing to bet you also like to stay home and watch soap operas on television every day (my wife likes General Hospital, what's your favorite?). In this season of giving, I felt compelled to get you a gift. Sorry I didn't have time to wrap it. I saw this at Penney's yesterday and said to myself, "This cologne would be perfect for Siberian." So, here it is - Merry Christmas!


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12-25-2003, 07:30 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Foley
fan-o-45: Thank you - well said.

I will address Siberian's question re: season ticket refunds, since I have been a season ticket holder for three seasons now. Here are some basic facts on how season tickets work:

Season ticket holders are required to have their tickets for the entire season paid for in full before the season even starts. Once they are received, they become assets to the season ticket holder, who are free to use them as they please. If a season ticket holder is unable or unwilling to attend a game that they have already paid for, it is up to themselves alone to find someone to buy or use them.

In addition, there are some ticket packages made available to non-season ticket holders, usually in three or six game packages. Again, before these fans can receive these tickets, they have to be paid for in full. These packages can either be bought before or during the season. Again, if an owner of one of these packages is unable or unwilling to attend a game that they have already paid for, it is up to themselves alone to find someone to buy or use them.

In both cases, the Blue Jackets are under no legal obligation to refund tickets already paid for by their fans, no more so if Zherdev is barred from playing anymore this season, versus a popular player getting an injury that puts him out for the season. If I were to ask the Blue Jackets for a refund based on either premise, they would tell me, "Tough luck."

Of course, if a season ticket holder isn't happy with the team's performance, their only recourse is to not renew their season tickets for the next season.

Siberian, your fascination with Zherdev and his situation is quite impressive. I'm willing to bet you also like to stay home and watch soap operas on television every day (my wife likes General Hospital, what's your favorite?). In this season of giving, I felt compelled to get you a gift. Sorry I didn't have time to wrap it. I saw this at Penney's yesterday and said to myself, "This cologne would be perfect for Siberian." So, here it is - Merry Christmas!
So in other words you are saying that if a fan found out that Zherdev was joining the team and bought the ticket package for the remainder of the season or any other package and then was told that Zherdev wll not be playing for Columbus anymore because it was illegal for Zherdev to play for Columbus, does not he have a reason to demand refund for the tickets?

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12-25-2003, 07:39 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siberian
So in other words you are saying that if a fan found out that Zherdev was joining the team and bought the ticket package for the remainder of the season or any other package and then was told that Zherdev wll not be playing for Columbus anymore because it was illegal for Zherdev to play for Columbus, does not he have a reason to demand refund for the tickets?
Anyone that desperate to see Zherdev play obviously has followed Zherdev, and his troubles coming over.

If they're watching Zherdev that close, they'd know the squabbles that CSKA is bringing, as well as the involvement of the IIHF and the NHL. They know that there's a chance that Zherdev might have to return home, even the lamest Jacket fan knows that.

So to answer your question, they know the risks, they know the consequences. They have no reason to expect their money back.

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12-25-2003, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Vickers
Anyone that desperate to see Zherdev play obviously has followed Zherdev, and his troubles coming over.

If they're watching Zherdev that close, they'd know the squabbles that CSKA is bringing, as well as the involvement of the IIHF and the NHL. They know that there's a chance that Zherdev might have to return home, even the lamest Jacket fan knows that.

So to answer your question, they know the risks, they know the consequences. They have no reason to expect their money back.

This point makes sense, but still I think some people would love to get money back for the tickets they bought. In any case Columbus would not want lose Zherdev like that, they need to show their fans that they do everything possible to improve the team. Columbus has had excellent fans but according to some research the fans are losing patience, that is why there are not very many sellouts as opposed to what was little while ago.

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12-25-2003, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Siberian
So in other words you are saying that if a fan found out that Zherdev was joining the team and bought the ticket package for the remainder of the season or any other package and then was told that Zherdev wll not be playing for Columbus anymore because it was illegal for Zherdev to play for Columbus, does not he have a reason to demand refund for the tickets?
Once the tickets are paid for, the Blue Jackets have no legal obligation to refund monies back to their fans. If Zherdev would be banned from playing with Columbus, the Blue Jackets would view that loss no differently than if a player was lost for the season due to injury.

When you go to buy your tickets from the Blue Jackets, it is implied in the contract that you are buying them to watch the team, not a particular player. If I were to ask the Blue Jackets to add a provision to the contract that I would want my money back if Zherdev or any other particular player missed a game that I was supposed to attend, they would not agree to it. In their eyes, any player at any time in the season may have to miss a game due to illness, injury, etc. The Blue Jackets cannot reasonably assume before the season starts that a particular player can play in every game.

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12-25-2003, 08:23 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Foley
Once the tickets are paid for, the Blue Jackets have no legal obligation to refund monies back to their fans. If Zherdev would be banned from playing with Columbus, the Blue Jackets would view that loss no differently than if a player was lost for the season due to injury.

When you go to buy your tickets from the Blue Jackets, it is implied in the contract that you are buying them to watch the team, not a particular player. If I were to ask the Blue Jackets to add a provision to the contract that I would want my money back if Zherdev or any other particular player missed a game that I was supposed to attend, they would not agree to it. In their eyes, any player at any time in the season may have to miss a game due to illness, injury, etc. The Blue Jackets cannot reasonably assume before the season starts that a particular player can play in every game.

But here is the difference. I understand the situation with injuries etc. But if Columbus used Zherdev to promote ticket sale and later it becomes known that he was there illegally in the first place that would mean that Columbus used this illegal action to promote tickets. If for example this goes to arbitration and in 2 weeks arbitration rules that Zherdev should not and will not be playing for an NHL club then what? So CBJs tricked customers by illegal actions. I do not think Columbus was gonna let it go to arbitration.

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12-25-2003, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Siberian
This point makes sense, but still I think some people would love to get money back for the tickets they bought. In any case Columbus would not want lose Zherdev like that, they need to show their fans that they do everything possible to improve the team. Columbus has had excellent fans but according to some research the fans are losing patience, that is why there are not very many sellouts as opposed to what was little while ago.
Listen, I would love to get my money back for this debacle of a season, so far. But I have no legal right to ask for it back. My only right is to not renew my season ticket package for the following season.

Doug MacLean showed some signs of wanting to improve the team this past offseason by adding talent such as Sydor and Marchant to the team. I believed that the moves MacLean made would improve the team's performance this season, so I renewed my season ticket package (don't let that statement fool you, I would have renewed it anyways; I'm in it for the long haul). Sadly, it appears that the team has not improved at all, so now I have to live with that until the season ends.

A lot of fans are losing their patience with this team. I'll admit it, I have at times this season, also. However, I have to take a step back when I get frustrated and remember that better times are ahead for this team, with or without Doug MacLean, Nikolai Zherdev, etc. If a lot of CBJ fans decide not to renew their season ticket packages after this season, then I look at that as an opportunity for me to improve my seat location. Then, when the Jackets become a consistent winner and those fair-weather fans come back to Nationwide Arena, they will have to sit in seats worse than they had before. That would serve them right for not being loyal.

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12-25-2003, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Siberian
But here is the difference. I understand the situation with injuries etc. But if Columbus used Zherdev to promote ticket sale and later it becomes known that he was there illegally in the first place that would mean that Columbus used this illegal action to promote tickets. If for example this goes to arbitration and in 2 weeks arbitration rules that Zherdev should not and will not be playing for an NHL club then what? So CBJs tricked customers by illegal actions. I do not think Columbus was gonna let it go to arbitration.
Your argument hinges on whether or not Zherdev was used by the Blue Jackets to promote ticket sales. What I can tell you living here in Columbus is that he is not part of their marketing campaign, based on the television advertisements, radio spots, newspaper ads, etc. that I see and hear almost every day. Instead of promoting the players, the Blue Jackets promote the arena experience (which is not a bad idea, based on how the team is playing). Not once have I seen or heard a Blue Jackets advertisement that says in some way, shape, or form, "Buy Blue Jackets tickets and come see Nikolai Zherdev play!".

If Zherdev does get banned from playing for Columbus, I wouldn't feel I have been tricked by CBJ management at all. In fact, I am happy that the Blue Jackets organization fought the good fight to bring Nikolai over here.

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12-25-2003, 04:44 PM
  #20
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Could you all stop including quotes in your replies from people who are trying to stir things up on the board? It totally defeats the ignore user function.

For those of you unaware how to use this, you click on the users profile, then select "add this user to your ignore list". It's great! I highly recommend it. It's far better than trying to deprogram tools of the state media machine.

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12-25-2003, 04:55 PM
  #21
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Sorry if that bothers you. I like to have the quotes in my reply when I'm trying to shoot down a point made by another poster so that they can see I am directly addressing it. I also think including the quotes is for the benefit of the people who do want to read the thread so that they don't have to go back and forth throughout it, trying to figure out who said what.

And as for Siberian,

"Thus endeth the lesson!"


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12-25-2003, 07:11 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by Matt Foley
Sorry if that bothers you. [/IMG]
I prefer it, in general, myself.

I just would like those who choose to engage, over ignore, to try to leave out the other stuff.

I would steer clear of the threads in their entirety, but occasionally you miss important information from them - like how you can get banned.

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12-26-2003, 04:25 PM
  #23
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a 'high draft pick bust'??? what is wrong with you? He was the most offensivley talented player of Staal, Horton, Zherdev. The ONLY reason he wasnt in Columbus was becuase of Russia. How would he be a bust by being stuck in russia when he didnt want to be? What if he did bad at the WJC it wouldnt matter at all... All you do is downgrade and jab Nikolai and claim dozes of things with no proof.


There is no proof Nikolai was in the army. Russia has NO CASE unless they show papers which they have failed to do since the draft.

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