HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Possible NYR Draft Day Scenarios -

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-26-2007, 03:44 PM
  #26
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,029
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
WHY would we trade Montoya, Prucha, and other assets for a Center when we can just sign one for a premier for just money alone????


Give Gomez his $6 mil over 5 years and call it a day....
because to me, Jokinen, Lecavalier, Horton, Marleau, et al are light years better than Gomez.

ill say it again about Gomez, in his career, which is 7 full seasons, he has, count em, 1 season over 20 goals. 1....1!!!! the guy averages about 48 assists a season, which statistically speaking is right around what he did last year, which places him at a whopping 36th in the NHL in assists. I dont get the drooling over this guy, particularly when you know what hes going to be making. he got what...5 mil in arbitration? you KNOW hes going to get more than that on the open market. He'll be looking for about 6.5ish is my guess, and for about 6 or 7 years.....for a guy with 1 season over 20 goals (in 7 years) and an assist total that would rank him 3rd on the Rangers.

NOT worth it.

How about Marleau, Jokinen, Horton, or Lecavalier?

Jokinen:seasons scoring over 20 goals: 4, all 4 of which have occured in a row dating back 5 years (lockout). during that span hes averaged 35 goals a year, and 41 assists.

Marleau:his last 9 NHL seasons how many times has he scored over 20 goals? 7 times. during that time hes averaged 24 goals per season, and 30 assists per season. both numbers rising steadily to the point where you can pencil him in for 30 goals and 45 assists.

Horton: 3 NHL seasons under his belt, one of which he only played 55 games. hes scored 14, 28, and 31 goals progressively, with assists rising from 8 to 19 to 31. hes also a big guy, and only 21 (soon to be 22) years old.

Lecavalier: 8 NHL seasons, 7 of which he scored over 20 goals. he averaged 29 goals per year and 35 assists per season.


I stand by what i said, Gomez isnt even in the same league as these guys.


Last edited by Inferno: 05-26-2007 at 03:59 PM.
Inferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2007, 04:04 PM
  #27
Sunshine
Registered User
 
Sunshine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 497
vCash: 500
Inferno's info is well supported and right on.

Fact is, in this age of the cap - giving a Gomez 5 at 30 is an astonishing committment in both length and dollar/year. That type of contract would make him a non-tradable entity (sound familiar fans of the Rangers in the late 90s?) - I want no part of Gomez and unless there was a 5 at 30 offer, I doubt he'd want us either.

When you're talking about a Thornton, Lecavalier and even Jokinen or Marleau, these are premier forwards that become iconic. You better make sure you get the one you want because he'll be the face of the franchise for a while.

Sunshine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2007, 04:08 PM
  #28
Prucha25Graves988*
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 314
vCash: 500
Overall in the long run, I see NYR staying at #17, maybe possibly moving diown to 10-13. i highly doubt anyone gets moved. All this tralk about moving and moving Montoya most likley isnt going to happen, though there is reason to believe it would I dont think much is going to happen. i have a feeling it will be a relativley quit draftt for some reason.

Prucha25Graves988* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2007, 04:08 PM
  #29
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,029
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
Inferno's info is well supported and right on.

Fact is, in this age of the cap - giving a Gomez 5 at 30 is an astonishing committment in both length and dollar/year. That type of contract would make him a non-tradable entity (sound familiar fans of the Rangers in the late 90s?) - I want no part of Gomez and unless there was a 5 at 30 offer, I doubt he'd want us either.

When you're talking about a Thornton, Lecavalier and even Jokinen or Marleau, these are premier forwards that become iconic. You better make sure you get the one you want because he'll be the face of the franchise for a while.

Inferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2007, 04:11 PM
  #30
Sunshine
Registered User
 
Sunshine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 497
vCash: 500
Back to Montoya/Turris though, that swap is purely dealing from what you've been fortunate to have become an extra part (albeit a fantastic one) for an area that you need very badly in the future.

In other words, this isn't about dealing Montoya for a premier power forward for NOW - that will come in the form of FA if and when we open the vault for the type of committment that will change the franchise (i.e. a Messier arrival) and in my opinion, that may not come until Crosby/Malkin are FA eligible.

Sunshine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2007, 04:12 PM
  #31
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,029
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prucha25Graves988 View Post
Overall in the long run, I see NYR staying at #17, maybe possibly moving diown to 10-13. i highly doubt anyone gets moved. All this tralk about moving and moving Montoya most likley isnt going to happen, though there is reason to believe it would I dont think much is going to happen. i have a feeling it will be a relativley quit draftt for some reason.
the trade may not happen during the draft, but id be shocked if Monty is a ranger come opening day. the guys value isnt going to increase much more than it is now, and hes legitimately blocked for his entire career as a Ranger by Henrik barring injury, so why keep him?2 headed monster? whats the point, Henrik has proved he can play the vast majority of the games, AND the team proved that they are maybe 1 major addition away from being a legit cup contender (assuming the D can be satisfactorily upgraded in house.)

Inferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2007, 04:14 PM
  #32
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,029
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
Back to Montoya/Turris though, that swap is purely dealing from what you've been fortunate to have become an extra part (albeit a fantastic one) for an area that you need very badly in the future.

In other words, this isn't about dealing Montoya for a premier power forward for NOW - that will come in the form of FA if and when we open the vault for the type of committment that will change the franchise (i.e. a Messier arrival) and in my opinion, that may not come until Crosby/Malkin are FA eligible.
id swap monty straight up for the 3rd pick, but i wouldnt feel comfortable giving up the 17 as well...then again, a scouting report on Turris would be helpful. are we talking about a kid who is a shoe-in first line center? or a kid with "first line upside" i hate that phrase, first line upside. I HAVE FIRST LINE UPSIDE, assuming a radioactive spider bites me and i get superpowers.

Inferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2007, 04:19 PM
  #33
wolfgaze
Interesting Cat
 
wolfgaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,066
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
Inferno's info is well supported and right on.

Fact is, in this age of the cap - giving a Gomez 5 at 30 is an astonishing committment in both length and dollar/year. That type of contract would make him a non-tradable entity (sound familiar fans of the Rangers in the late 90s?) - I want no part of Gomez and unless there was a 5 at 30 offer, I doubt he'd want us either.

When you're talking about a Thornton, Lecavalier and even Jokinen or Marleau, these are premier forwards that become iconic. You better make sure you get the one you want because he'll be the face of the franchise for a while.
That most certainly would NOT make him a non-tradeable entity... Wait until a few more off-seasons pass... You're going to notice a lot of players getting paid well above what people think they're worth.... Did you hear the latest Markov rumors? $5 mil a year? Kubina already making $5 mil a year w/ Toronto.... Chara @ $7.5 mil? Richards' salary?

There's going to be an abundance of players making large salaries.... And more of them that surface, the less 'non-tradeable' people will consider them....

In signing Gomez, we're looking for a player that's going to instantly make all of his linemates that much better.... I don't care about his goal totals... I believe if he can score 33 on a defensive oriented Devils, he can replicate that on a team like the NYR's where he'll have the offensive freedom to do as he pleases.... He'll help increase the production of his linemates significantly.....


Rangers will never acquire any significant players via free agency if they aren't willing to poney up the dough needed to attract these players in the open market....

And frankly, if these are such premier players, i certainly don't see their respective teams trading these players for an unproven AHL goaltender and a small one-dimensional 20-25 goal scoring forward.... They're going to want established, young, impact players with more to offer then the aforementioned...

wolfgaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2007, 04:20 PM
  #34
Phil333
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New York City
Country: United States
Posts: 997
vCash: 500
I think we shouldn't need to give up our 17th overall to move Montoya. I think Montoya for the 3rd overall is a fair trade. Drafts are a gamble, you don't know if what you are getting will even turn out to be a good player. However, by trading their 3rd overall, Phoenix gets a great goalie who is young. The packagaing your first round pick makes sense if you are sending someone older, but because Montoya is not young, he is not worth sending our 17th as well. Because they are getting a known quantity, I think the Coyotes should be inclined to take a straight Montoya for 3rd overall. I'm not saying the will, but it is fair and they should.

Phil333 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2007, 04:26 PM
  #35
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,029
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
That most certainly would NOT make him a non-tradeable entity... Wait until a few more off-seasons pass... You're going to notice a lot of players getting paid well above what people think they're worth.... Did you hear the latest Markov rumors? $5 mil a year? Kubina already making $5 mil a year w/ Toronto.... Chara @ $7.5 mil? Richards' salary?

There's going to be an abundance of players making large salaries.... And more of them that surface, the less 'non-tradeable' people will consider them....

In signing Gomez, we're looking for a player that's going to instantly make all of his linemates that much better.... I don't care about his goal totals... I believe if he can score 33 on a defensive oriented Devils, he can replicate that on a team like the NYR's where he'll have the offensive freedom to do as he pleases.... He'll help increase the production of his linemates significantly.....
he did that 2 seasons ago, last season, 13 goals, 47 assists. nearly IDENTICAL to every single other season.

to me, thats spells aberration, not grounds for signing a guy. let me put it another way. in 1996 Brady Anderson hit 50 homers, and drive on 110 rbis. the next season he hit 18 homers and drove in 73 runs. decent numbers for sure, but would you give him a contract in 1998 based on his 96 season? or all the other seasons hes put up?

Inferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2007, 04:30 PM
  #36
Brian Boyle
portnor, pls
 
Brian Boyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,046
vCash: 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCallahan43 View Post
we only got 5 picks. i wonder if the rangers will try to trade to get more picks. maybe hossa and the rights to rachunek can get a 4th or 5th round.
umm........ what?

__________________


Rangers Unlimited
Hockey Graphs
Brian Boyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2007, 04:41 PM
  #37
Prucha25Graves988*
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 314
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
the trade may not happen during the draft, but id be shocked if Monty is a ranger come opening day. the guys value isnt going to increase much more than it is now, and hes legitimately blocked for his entire career as a Ranger by Henrik barring injury, so why keep him?2 headed monster? whats the point, Henrik has proved he can play the vast majority of the games, AND the team proved that they are maybe 1 major addition away from being a legit cup contender (assuming the D can be satisfactorily upgraded in house.)
Well i dont really know if Sather feels he just give up and move Montoya so quickly.Yes, Montoya's carreer is blocked with henk here, but is and will Montoyas value ever be what it should be, if he doesnt get some NHL games to show if he is real deal somewhat, or could that be a mistake giving him NHL games, cause if he plays soft it may question his abilities.You dont want to wait to long to move Montoya, but he is still very young, I think he should get some NHL games, hope there good ones, have anothjer solid year in the AHL, maybe half of a season then try to move him. But overall I must say i agree with by season start he will most likley be moved, lets just hope its for a good proven YOUNG top 6 offensive player or even a #1/#2/#3 d-man and not a 29 year old or older player. I would like to see NYR acquire someone in there mid 20's, the oldest.getting a player like cammalerri, or Brown from LA, with a more involved package,. or even some what a bigger deal for a kid like Horton, so who knows, I just wonder a little bit.

Prucha25Graves988* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2007, 05:26 PM
  #38
thestaalera*
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 110
vCash: 500
You see the same bumbling GM's every year think they have a real goalie to build around and what they have is a backup. They overrate their goalie prospects beyond belief. I think Montoya has a chance to be a starter. It will take him at least 2 NHL years. He's struggle to start. He's still inconsistent. However, Chicago, Phoenix and Florida have nothing in the minors that is legit in my opinion. There goalie prospects are on par with a guy like Dubinsky at forward for us. A lot of hype but in the end he's be a good role player type who will wow you once in a while.


Last edited by Transported Upstater: 05-27-2007 at 12:30 AM.
thestaalera* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2007, 07:37 PM
  #39
danno2530
 
danno2530's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 6,453
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to danno2530
I would love to trade up in the draft if possible, but I don't want it to be a result of oveerpaying or expending some of our young talent. I know alot of people aren't crazy about Espo, but I see alot of Phil Kessel in him (early hype, dissapointing season, scouts backing away, questions about attitude and in the end the fact that he is worth a change). I just can't see him having a Brady Quinn-esque plummet down to 17th especially with the Habs and Leafs picking ahead of us.

I really think we need to go for offense but if someone like Petrecki is out there, I would be in favor of that pick. I have this feeling that Montoya is eventually going to get dealt. While I would love to keep him, he is by far our best trade chip and with Henrik hopefully being here for a long time, I just don't know what his future is.

By the way does anyone have a list of the Rangers' draft picks? Apparently we are without our 3rd and 4th (which means I'm probably leaving the draft after the 2nd round), but I was wondering if we had any other picks from other teams and what our draft order looks like.

danno2530 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2007, 07:57 PM
  #40
Sunshine
Registered User
 
Sunshine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 497
vCash: 500
In response to Inferno - Turris (IMHO) is your crown-jewel big-bodied centerman who WILL need time to grow into his frame. When you look at Kane, I see a Briere at best. Van Riemsdyk? OK - But I like Turris more. In fact, 1/2 of the NHL (Flyers included) would be taking Turris #1 overall if they owned the selection.

Sunshine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2007, 08:15 PM
  #41
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 12,464
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
Yea...Montoya to Philly-that makes sense.
...the hockey IQ here frightens me.

PHX is a perfect destination (goalie need, Sather/Gretzky, non-conference)
Well FWIW just dumping him because Lundqvist is in his way like so many think we should do---underselling him just to make a headline splash on draft day--doesn't make a lot of sense to me either. A lot of people seem to think he's going nowhere fast so we have to get something right now. Some people think in fact that Weekes is a better goalie just because of 'experience'--maybe even yourself. I got my own ideas about it--and if you really really really have to trade him--get the better player for him. Or are you afraid he'll come back in a Flyer's uni and haunt us?--well why should he--we've got the better goalie don't we? We already know that--don't we? In any case once he's off your team you can't control what another team will do with him anyway--they might send him to the Flyers a year down the road for Van Riemsdyk.

eco's bones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2007, 09:10 PM
  #42
Sunshine
Registered User
 
Sunshine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 497
vCash: 500
eco, you make some really good points there but Montoya will never be traded to Philly, just as he wouldn't be dealt to jersey or the island.

Lundqvist is the better goalie. In fact, Lundqvist looks like he's moving into the Kiprusoff/Nabokov echeleon of the annual best of the best/Vezina candidates for the next...(knock on wood) 10 seasons. Moreover, he's a marketing dream, a charismatic, good looking, intelligent, gregarious Swede that embodies the city of NY.

With that said, Montoya is far from a sure thing - and I'm confident that his level of value right now is what I'm comfortable with.

Sunshine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2007, 09:18 PM
  #43
DarthSather99
Registered User
 
DarthSather99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 3,260
vCash: 500
I'd trade for the #3 overall. Montoya but NOT #17.

I'd trade players instead of the pick. Phoenix is probably looking for NHL players not future help.

Montoya and Dawes (maybe Baranka also) for the #3 overall + something back from Phoenix (backup goaltender).

Montoya, Dawes (sound like Cloutier/Sundstrom??) and probably Baranka are NHL ready but not here.

We have talented players coming into Hartford and there probably isn't enough spots on the NYR to push players onto the roster. We need to start packaging players for an upgrade in talent.

DarthSather99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2007, 09:20 PM
  #44
DarthSather99
Registered User
 
DarthSather99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 3,260
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
In response to Inferno - Turris (IMHO) is your crown-jewel big-bodied centerman who WILL need time to grow into his frame. When you look at Kane, I see a Briere at best. Van Riemsdyk? OK - But I like Turris more. In fact, 1/2 of the NHL (Flyers included) would be taking Turris #1 overall if they owned the selection.
Turris will never be big bodied. He is compared to Sakic.

DarthSather99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2007, 09:28 PM
  #45
Sunshine
Registered User
 
Sunshine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 497
vCash: 500
Good comparisson on Sakic, he's bigger than that though.
When I think of Turris skating, he's very lean with a tremendous stride.
He's one of the few prospects I can really have a strong opinion of.
While 'big bodied' was mis-used, I do see him projecting into a 6'2 195 lean strong cut frame.


Last edited by Sunshine: 05-26-2007 at 09:30 PM. Reason: mental error
Sunshine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2007, 09:28 PM
  #46
bobbop
Henrik's Pop
 
bobbop's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Suburban Phoenix
Country: United States
Posts: 4,829
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
NYR recieves: #3 overall (Kyle Turris)
PHX receives: G Al Montoya + 17th overall
Montoya straight up for #3 makes a lot of sense. Perhaps #17 but only if the Yotes 2nd (#31) comes back this way. There's a lot of talk that the Hawks may take Turris at #1 so I'm not sure who the Rangers might end up with here but I'm sure if they move in this direction then they would be comfortable with any of the top three forwards. I am certain Montoya is out of here this summer. The Rangers have their goaltender for the next 10 years and you can't hope to establish his credential any more than they have by having Al fill in for 15-20 NHL games. Gee, I'd love Jokinen (signed for 3 more years at about $5MM -- reasonable) or Horton but hard to see that happening so going back into the draft might be the best way to get a top line forward. If the Rangers hold on to #17, consider Bill Sweatt, fast rising winger from Colorado College who skates like the wind and really found the net in the second half of his freshman season. He's rising fast at McKeen's but not yet in other places.

bobbop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2007, 09:34 PM
  #47
broadwayblue
Registered User
 
broadwayblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 15,654
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
If the Rangers hold on to #17, consider Bill Sweatt, fast rising winger from Colorado College who skates like the wind and really found the net in the second half of his freshman season. He's rising fast at McKeen's but not yet in other places.
is 9 goals really finding the net? honestly i don't know anything about this kid, but he doesn't seem like an offensive powerhouse.

broadwayblue is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2007, 09:39 PM
  #48
Sunshine
Registered User
 
Sunshine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 497
vCash: 500
Offensively, Sweatt just isn't so sweet. I was going to jot him down on my list but I said pass. Bottom line, I project him as a solid 3rd liner and not much more - Fact is, we have a couple dozen of those boys already. Pass Pass Pass. We need a hit or miss and quite frankly, I don't mind missing if the upside is that 'sweet'

Sunshine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2007, 10:20 PM
  #49
DarthSather99
Registered User
 
DarthSather99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 3,260
vCash: 500
many publications peg Sweat as a good defensive forward, great skater but offensively suspect.....his speed will create offensive oppertunites but not much on having a great shot or goal scorer mentality ...

DarthSather99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2007, 10:56 PM
  #50
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,029
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthSather99 View Post
many publications peg Sweat as a good defensive forward, great skater but offensively suspect.....his speed will create offensive oppertunites but not much on having a great shot or goal scorer mentality ...
no thanks, weve got plenty of no thumb bums

Inferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:19 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.