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Old
05-27-2007, 12:18 AM
  #51
HatTrick Swayze
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I was really high on Sweatt at one point, but the more I hear the more he reminds me of Matt Cullen

And I would be ok with packaging Montoya + a player / pick (not #17) for Turris (or JVR, but I know not everyone likes him as much as I do). The Rangers need some elite prospects, and I think both of these guys fit the bill nicely.

I would obviously prefer a package envolving a young, NHL proven star - but I'm not sure if Montoya plus gets you that. That's why I'd rather move him at draft day.

And in terms of goaltending depth, I'm (knock on wood) ok with losing Al. We have one of the best Goalie coaches in the business, and a good developmental system, so grooming a capable NHL backup shouldn't be an issue. I think Montoya could be replaced by Sexsmith/Smith/Cann very nicely.

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05-27-2007, 06:18 AM
  #52
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Well I'll continue on--not saying that this is a bad draft but the 4 or 5 guys seen to have pulled themselves away from the pack--Kane, Van Riemsdyk, Turris, Voracek, Cherepanov--underwhelm me. This is not unusual for a draft. They are dotted with a number of players who were supposed to be big stars comparable to this guy and to that. Pat Falloon was a number 2 right after Lindros--comparable size-wise to Kane. He had terrific numbers in juniors as well. Some turn out to be just good players but were drafted with a lot of hype and never met expectations. Some don't make it at all. Turris may well be another Sakic. He also might be the next Lundmark--who some thought might eventually become the best player in his year. What is evident on the day a player is drafted is not always evident a year later. That's why I don't always take the 'why didn't we draft this guy instead of that one' too seriously. These players are so young and not fully developed and there are all kinds of intangibles when looking at them on the whole that will still need to come to light after they're drafted.

As for Montoya I don't believe he is or will be as good as Lundqvist--but I think we can say that by judging from his two years in the AHL which have sometimes been dominant that he will be at least as good as say a Ray Emery--who's not as good as Miller, Lundqvist, DiPietro--may be eclipsed in the future by Lehtonen, Ward and Fleury--but is good enough to get his team right now into the Stanley Cup finals. If Turris turns into a Stephen Weiss or a Daymond Langkow--both good players with lots of hype behind them on draft day suggesting the possibility of more than they later delivered a deal including Montoya and the 17th overall is not going to be a particularly good one especially if the 17th pick turns into one of the better players in the draft which has happened many times in the past. Montoya is more ready--more developed than these players you would trade him for. He has two problems--injured too often--maybe just flukey--and inconsistent at times--the same could be said for the veteran Weekes. Again the top players from this draft may well turn into first line players--I just don't see these guys becoming superstars.

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05-27-2007, 08:28 AM
  #53
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Totally agree! Finally! I have always felt that Gomez is about the most overrated player to come along in quite a while! We dont need him. We need to move up and draft a possible franchise forward. As for Jokinen....No thanks.....Id rather draft a surefire cant miss type and wait it out. As for Lacavalier...thats a different story!

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05-27-2007, 09:44 AM
  #54
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Fellas, here's what I know about Sweatt...he had one goal halfway through the season and scored 8 goals (and most of his assists) in the second half of the season. I've seen him play twice (once in person) and he is a breathtaking skater. Think Mike Gartner here. Matt Cullen style player isn't all that far off but at #17, that would be a reasonable expectation. Tall and skinny but certainly a candidate to fill out. For his age and level, he seemed to really be getting it as the season went along in Colorado. McKeen's right now has him at #11.

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05-27-2007, 12:10 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by JKDR1 View Post
Totally agree! Finally! I have always felt that Gomez is about the most overrated player to come along in quite a while! We dont need him. We need to move up and draft a possible franchise forward. As for Jokinen....No thanks.....Id rather draft a surefire cant miss type and wait it out. As for Lacavalier...thats a different story!
This is not the best draft to be trying to move up to a top 3 pick... I'd rather wait...

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05-27-2007, 04:03 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
This is not the best draft to be trying to move up to a top 3 pick... I'd rather wait...
I agree. If there wasn't a steal at 17 I'd rather trade our first pick to some other team for their first pick next year and THEN trade that first pick, our 2008 first pick and Montoya and get... oh wait, Taveras is 2009 eligible. Anyways, our draft priorities this year IMO are get another goaltending prospect into the pipeline (Joel Gistedt sounds nice) and some top line elite talent which is doubtful to happen so let's just wait for the next two drafts for that one. Plenty of FAs out there if needed. Have to wait for training camp for the prospects.

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05-27-2007, 04:59 PM
  #57
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Honestly, there's alot more guys I like in the bottom half than the top of the first round. It wouldn't surprise me at all that, if the guy the team REALLY wants is off the table, if we traded down. Hedge the bets and take two stabs at guys who will be good but not great, rather than swing and miss at a maybe. I think the team has turned a corner in that they seem to be selecting kids based on their character and psychological makeup in conjunction with their skills rather than by on ice reports only. I really like alot of guys ranked outside the first round. We could go for Kane or Turris in a blockbuster, but does he put us any closer to a cup this year? He probably doesn't even suit up. If I'm trading Montoya AND my first rounder, it's gotta be for a first line player currently in his prime as part of a package. If Tampa is moving Richards or Vinny, I make that trade. Kovalchuk goes on the block, I make that trade. Maybe even for Rick Nash, I make that trade. But for a kid who hasn't even played a game yet who is far short of the sure things like Crosby, Ovechkin, and Kovalchuk, I really don't think I do...

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05-27-2007, 05:11 PM
  #58
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Honestly, there's alot more guys I like in the bottom half than the top of the first round. It wouldn't surprise me at all that, if the guy the team REALLY wants is off the table, if we traded down. Hedge the bets and take two stabs at guys who will be good but not great, rather than swing and miss at a maybe. I think the team has turned a corner in that they seem to be selecting kids based on their character and psychological makeup in conjunction with their skills rather than by on ice reports only. I really like alot of guys ranked outside the first round. We could go for Kane or Turris in a blockbuster, but does he put us any closer to a cup this year? He probably doesn't even suit up. If I'm trading Montoya AND my first rounder, it's gotta be for a first line player currently in his prime as part of a package. If Tampa is moving Richards or Vinny, I make that trade. Kovalchuk goes on the block, I make that trade. Maybe even for Rick Nash, I make that trade. But for a kid who hasn't even played a game yet who is far short of the sure things like Crosby, Ovechkin, and Kovalchuk, I really don't think I do...
the guy is averaging ~30 goals per season through 4 seasons on the team with arguably the weakest offensive depth in the NHL(last season only 1 team scored fewer goals than them, edmonton). oh, did i mention he is only 22. he is a freaking monster (6'4 215), and if we could pry him away from columbus, id be dancing in the streets of atlanta.

hes still got some growing to do, but man oh man, the thought of this kid in ranger blue gives me a happy.

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Old
05-27-2007, 05:13 PM
  #59
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hey everyone. I saw earlier in the thread that you guys might be interested in moving up. Just wondering if you guys would have any interest in the 4th overall pick if that deal for the 3rd overall doesn't pan out. If so, what do you think your team's GM would be willing to give up? thanks in advance.

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05-27-2007, 05:16 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by GRuiz98 View Post
hey everyone. I saw earlier in the thread that you guys might be interested in moving up. Just wondering if you guys would have any interest in the 4th overall pick if that deal for the 3rd overall doesn't pan out. If so, what do you think your team's GM would be willing to give up? thanks in advance.
hmm


how about

Tyutin, Montoya, our first overall, Prucha, and a 3rd rounder for the 4th, and Johnson.

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05-27-2007, 05:19 PM
  #61
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I truly believe Dean Lombardi does not have any interest in trading Johnson.

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05-27-2007, 05:20 PM
  #62
Inferno
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I truly believe Dean Lombardi does not have any interest in trading Johnson.
if he doesnt, were going to force you guys to have Marek Malik.



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Old
05-27-2007, 05:23 PM
  #63
ChrisKreider20
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If we're going to trade up I don't think we should make trades for any pick under 3. We'd likely pick up Cherepanov and god does he remind me of Pavel Brendl.

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Old
05-27-2007, 06:00 PM
  #64
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I honestly think this draft is a terrible time to start talking about moving up, and if we are going to move up, why would we trade our most valuable piece to do so? We are trading a guy who is almost, if not, already NHL ready and should be a starting goaltender for a guy who MIGHT develop into a first line player four or five years down the road. That is a terrible transaction in my opinion and I have to question your reasoning for wanting to do so. You just think it is such a bad idea to have two top tier goaltenders on one team or in one system?? I would rather deal Montoya plus other assets (take your pick, other than Staal) in a trade to get a guy already developed and ready to contribute on the top line. I would also rather let Monty continue to develop and see a season where he really dominates the AHL. He is not old and his value could possibly go higher or lower, but I trust our system to help him to develop to his potential. I get the feeling that a lot of you guys do not.

On top of the fact that we are trading a guy who is almost NHL ready for a draft pick of a guy who might be a first line center in four or five years, I agree with other people who have said in this thread that this particular draft is very underwhelming. It is possible a franchise player or two come out of this draft, but I almost guarantee you that if you give me your two picks for franchise players right now (Kane and Turris, clearly), in ten years we look back and you will be wrong.

I mean, Turris is playing in the BCHL, has legs like twigs and supposedly is a coach's dream as well as a great skater. I like two of those features, but where he has been plying his trade scares me a great deal, if he were doing this in the Q I might be all for it, but this would be BY FAR the highest anybody has ever been drafted out of the BCHL, and I would rather not be the franchise to bank my future on the quality of that league.

Kane, as you said has potential upside of a Danny Briere. I LOVE Danny, more than most, but a guy like him (St. Louis and Gionta should both also be included in this discussion) usually needs 6 or 7 years to be able to really hang in the NHL and you have to be really, really special. Granted, people think he is that special kid, but look at Briere. He didn't end up being special for the team that drafted him. Why? Took too long to get there and they dumped him.

Honestly, there are better things to do with our draft picks and very tradeable pieces. Lets get ourselves a Horton, Florida is famous for making some of the worst trades in history, lets see if they will make another. Lets get ourselves a Hemsky, Edmonton would love this guy, right now they are banking on Devan Dubnyk and that guy is stuck in the ECHL. There are many possible destintions, and it is also possible to just hang onto him and let him continue to develop.

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Old
05-27-2007, 06:09 PM
  #65
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if he doesnt, were going to force you guys to have Marek Malik.


as long as you take cloutier haha I keed I keed

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05-27-2007, 06:38 PM
  #66
Inferno
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as long as you take cloutier haha I keed I keed
id take danny cloutier back, hes a favorite of mine since he whooped the crap outta Salo :-D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8F8jSpkgTs


cloutier can backup monty in hartford.

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05-27-2007, 08:02 PM
  #67
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Cloutier would be my favorite nominee for our back up goaltender...

You know he would throw down if anyone effed with him...

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05-27-2007, 08:05 PM
  #68
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Cloutier would be my favorite nominee for our back up goaltender...

You know he would throw down if anyone effed with him...
thing is i doubt opposing players would have much of a problem with him since he'll be so generous with the goals..

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05-27-2007, 08:23 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Cloutier would be my favorite nominee for our back up goaltender...

You know he would throw down if anyone effed with him...
Look I love Clouts for when he kicked Salo's ass. That was a rare bright spot in a ghastly season..one of many.

And with that said, I don't want to see Cloutier anywhere CLOSE to this organization. Not with the Rangers as a backup, not in Hartford, not in Charlotte, not as a hot dog vendor..nothing. If you think Weekes gives up bad goals, you'll think he's Grant Fuhr next to Cloutier.

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05-27-2007, 09:05 PM
  #70
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danno, did you follow Cloutier after he left this team?


From 2001 to 2004, he posted 3 straight 30 win seasons....

31-22-5
33-16-7
33-21-6

8-3 with Vancouver LAST season before he got injured...

Granted he didn't have the best year with the Kings but hey, they're the Kings... They're horrible...

I'd clearly take him as a back up if we could get away with paying him no more then $1.2-$1.5 mil....

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05-27-2007, 09:23 PM
  #71
Inferno
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danno, did you follow Cloutier after he left this team?


From 2001 to 2004, he posted 3 straight 30 win seasons....

31-22-5
33-16-7
33-21-6

8-3 with Vancouver LAST season before he got injured...

Granted he didn't have the best year with the Kings but hey, they're the Kings... They're horrible...

I'd clearly take him as a back up if we could get away with paying him no more then $1.2-$1.5 mil....
he would also have it written into his contract that hes have to kick the crap outta Brodeur at least twice next year.

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05-27-2007, 09:39 PM
  #72
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Quote:
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danno, did you follow Cloutier after he left this team?


From 2001 to 2004, he posted 3 straight 30 win seasons....

31-22-5
33-16-7
33-21-6

8-3 with Vancouver LAST season before he got injured...

Granted he didn't have the best year with the Kings but hey, they're the Kings... They're horrible...

I'd clearly take him as a back up if we could get away with paying him no more then $1.2-$1.5 mil....
Yes I did and I also noticed his penchant for giving up bad goals at big times. Plus the Canucks did also have Ohlund and Jovo on that blueline and they often played a trap.

While I agree the Kings have a bad defense, I just think he is alot like Weekes and I would rather give Weekes a significant pay cut to stay. Also, Cloutier is not a free agent, I wouldn't want to take on his current salary.

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Old
05-27-2007, 11:24 PM
  #73
EventHorizon
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Anybody know how Maloney feels about Montoya? If he gets the GM job in Phoenix and is high on Montoya, I think this whole Montoya to Phoenix scenario is even more likely.

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05-28-2007, 05:48 AM
  #74
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That's actually a pretty good point. It seems as though whenever there is a regime change, the new guy seems to bring some of his projects along with him.

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05-28-2007, 06:25 AM
  #75
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Anybody know how Maloney feels about Montoya? If he gets the GM job in Phoenix and is high on Montoya, I think this whole Montoya to Phoenix scenario is even more likely.
Maloney loves Montoya.If you ever saw the MSG special about the 2004 draft,Maloney was shown in the Rangers room days before the draft telling Sather,Renney and rest of the Rangers scouting staff about the Rangers needing to solidify their goaltending with the selection of Montoya

Even if Maloney does not get the Phoenix job,Phoenix is in the market for a young goaltender

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