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gauthier gets the green helmet

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12-25-2003, 06:20 PM
  #26
mamettt
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At the risk of taking this thread back to it's original topic, I can't help but echo G2k's sentiments. Nobody loooks back longlingly for Sean Brown's defensive gafs or stupidities, but there's no denying he knew how to stick up for a teammate, something Laraque has no idea about. To call laraque a good enforcer, a good hitter, a good protector, or anything more than a decent fourth liner is false and a discredit to all of the geniune tough guys in the league.

Laraque is no tougher than a flower picking goal scorer, and at some point along the way, he forget what his role was. As an enforcer, you are supposed to go out their and make sure people know that "if you screw with our guys, I will screw with you". He has to go out their and at least try to instill the fear of god in the other team. That's the only thing he's good for, and to accomplish this...guess what, he may have to play some boderline hockey. That means punching a guy when he's down, that means looking to hit and inflict pain on any and everybody from the opposing team, and that means targeting someone who has targeted your players. What that doesn't mean is go headhunting or cheap shotting...that means, within the rules, make the other team suffer as much as they can. Nobody likes george for his offensive skill or his wizardry with the puck. He's in the lineup for 2 reasons: to inflict pain on the other team(in a legal manner) and to stick up for his teamates or are assaulted. That is the role of an enforcer, and he fails miserably at both of those tasks.

Thank god though we signed him to a three year deal...really looking like a sound investment, meanwhile some of our best, and at least certanly more valuable, players(smith, chimera) have to do laraque's job for him. Is it me or should the coaching staff call him out on this? Challenge him? Publicly acknowledge his incompetence in accomplishing what he's paid to do?


Last edited by mamettt: 12-25-2003 at 06:29 PM.
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12-25-2003, 07:05 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamettt
At the risk of taking this thread back to it's original topic, I can't help but echo G2k's sentiments. Nobody loooks back longlingly for Sean Brown's defensive gafs or stupidities, but there's no denying he knew how to stick up for a teammate, something Laraque has no idea about. To call laraque a good enforcer, a good hitter, a good protector, or anything more than a decent fourth liner is false and a discredit to all of the geniune tough guys in the league.

Laraque is no tougher than a flower picking goal scorer, and at some point along the way, he forget what his role was. As an enforcer, you are supposed to go out their and make sure people know that "if you screw with our guys, I will screw with you". He has to go out their and at least try to instill the fear of god in the other team. That's the only thing he's good for, and to accomplish this...guess what, he may have to play some boderline hockey. That means punching a guy when he's down, that means looking to hit and inflict pain on any and everybody from the opposing team, and that means targeting someone who has targeted your players. What that doesn't mean is go headhunting or cheap shotting...that means, within the rules, make the other team suffer as much as they can. Nobody likes george for his offensive skill or his wizardry with the puck. He's in the lineup for 2 reasons: to inflict pain on the other team(in a legal manner) and to stick up for his teamates or are assaulted. That is the role of an enforcer, and he fails miserably at both of those tasks.

Thank god though we signed him to a three year deal...really looking like a sound investment, meanwhile some of our best, and at least certanly more valuable, players(smith, chimera) have to do laraque's job for him. Is it me or should the coaching staff call him out on this? Challenge him? Publicly acknowledge his incompetence in accomplishing what he's paid to do?
It hasn't helped so far. Lowe has called him out publicly that he wants Laraque to play more like a Tie Domi. He's been called out twice by Lowe and still Laraque hasn't protected his teammates. Tell Laraque to stop worrying about the instigator. Those kind of penalties are the easiest to kill as the instigaor was protecting a teammate.

What does Laraque want? Not take instigator penalties and watch as the opposing team takes advantage and take cheapshots and liberties ath the Oilers players because Laraque isn't doing his job. Take the instigator if it means that it sends a message to the other team.

If Laraque isn't protecting his teammates, the Oilers better players and scorers will contine to take abuse, liberties and cheapshots from the opposition. Laraque has to send a message to the other team that you won't get away with taking liberties and cheapshots against his teammates.

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Last edited by Narnia: 12-25-2003 at 07:18 PM.
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12-25-2003, 07:55 PM
  #28
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wouldn't it be nice if we had this era's version of semenko? Do anything to hemsky, york, chimmer ...etc and you paid the ultimate price - a dance with Dave.

I hate to say it but I would almost rather have Rocky Thompson dressed as the 23 oiler than BG.

 
Old
12-25-2003, 09:14 PM
  #29
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I asked you how many times Gauthier had been suspended for dirty hits....no answer.

Point is, he has been suspended once I think? Maybe twice? The only one I remember was a totally clean hip check against the blackhawks...Mironov did the exact same thing minutes later and went scot free...

Smith and Gauthier are both tough, hard hitting defensemen...neither are going to win a Lady Byng, but neither are extraordinarlily dirty...

You guys whine on and on about Gauthier, but bottom line is, he is no dirtier than Smith, and I personally would love to have Smith on my team any day...

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12-25-2003, 09:33 PM
  #30
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The big problem with Laraque is that you could butt end Hemsky in the face, blow out Smyth's knee, and then cut Dvorak's throat and if you told him you didn't want to go, he would respect that and not fight you.

If you're really going to be an enforcer, you need to snap once in a while to keep the other team honest.

Right now you could **** the mother of an Oiler, and Georges wouldn't do anything if you said you didn't feel like fighting. He has taken the whole honor thing WAY too far...

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12-25-2003, 09:54 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver
The big problem with Laraque is that you could butt end Hemsky in the face, blow out Smyth's knee, and then cut Dvorak's throat and if you told him you didn't want to go, he would respect that and not fight you.

If you're really going to be an enforcer, you need to snap once in a while to keep the other team honest.

Right now you could **** the mother of an Oiler, and Georges wouldn't do anything if you said you didn't feel like fighting. He has taken the whole honor thing WAY too far...
Exactly. What the Oilers need is a true enforcer who'll stand up and protect players like Hemsky, Smyth, Dvorak and the better players of the team.

Why doesn't Laraque understand this. He was on after hours last year on HNIC and was asked if MacT is holding him back from fighting and he said "No." He's holding himself back.

Kevin Lowe wants Laraque to be like Tie Domi and protect and truly enforce and that means protecting his teammates from cheapshots, liberties and abuse.

Since Laraque isn't protecting his teammates, it's time to trade him. Does Laraque not understand that this team could become the Montreal Canadiens or LA Kings in terms of injuries if he doesn't do anything to protect his teammates from cheapshots, liberties and abuse from the oppposing team. He should forget about the instigator and send a message to the opposing team that he won't stand for it. We can't have Gator and Chimmer do that, especially Gator since he's a defenseman.

Do your job, BG.

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12-25-2003, 09:55 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cain
I asked you how many times Gauthier had been suspended for dirty hits....no answer.

Point is, he has been suspended once I think? Maybe twice? The only one I remember was a totally clean hip check against the blackhawks...Mironov did the exact same thing minutes later and went scot free...

Smith and Gauthier are both tough, hard hitting defensemen...neither are going to win a Lady Byng, but neither are extraordinarlily dirty...

You guys whine on and on about Gauthier, but bottom line is, he is no dirtier than Smith, and I personally would love to have Smith on my team any day...
Gauthier was on the end of the other player getting injured on numerous occasions. He goes over the line in hits more often than not.

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12-25-2003, 10:31 PM
  #33
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I guess people getting injured is a sure sign of playing dirty instead of hitting hard? You know that hockey is a rough sport with a lot of injuries right?

So...especially if you play a hard hitting style like gauthier does, you are bound to cause more injuries than ales hemsky will...but that does not mean he is dirty.

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12-25-2003, 10:38 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cain
I guess people getting injured is a sure sign of playing dirty instead of hitting hard? You know that hockey is a rough sport with a lot of injuries right?

So...especially if you play a hard hitting style like gauthier does, you are bound to cause more injuries than ales hemsky will...but that does not mean he is dirty.
Few people have used the line of causation you're trying to claim many of us are using.. Gauthier does not injure people because of his hard hitting style, he injures them because he hits them illegally! There is a very big difference between playing hard and playing cheap.. I believe Smith plays hard while Gauthier plays hard and dirty. I can agree that Smith does throw some elbows now and then (as does pretty much every player in the NHL) but I've never seen him go out of his way to undercut a guy like i've seen Gauthier do on numerous occasions. I have no problem with players who simply play intense but I do with cheap shot artists.

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12-25-2003, 10:47 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral
Few people have used the line of causation you're trying to claim many of us are using.. Gauthier does not injure people because of his hard hitting style, he injures them because he hits them illegally! There is a very big difference between playing hard and playing cheap.. I believe Smith plays hard while Gauthier plays hard and dirty. I can agree that Smith does throw some elbows now and then (as does pretty much every player in the NHL) but I've never seen him go out of his way to undercut a guy like i've seen Gauthier do on numerous occasions. I have no problem with players who simply play intense but I do with cheap shot artists.
I have seen a lot of Gauthier's hits...and he is not half as dirty as you oil fans make him out to be. His hits are called hip checks, and those hits are low...he is not submarining into people though, throwing himself at their knees.

He is probably the best hip checker I have seen personally, and his hipchecks are textbook in nature...I have not seen ones that are extraordinarily low...Hipchecks are huge hits a lot of the times, I think fans of a team see their player get nailed and jump up with accusations of 'dirty hit' instead of looking and realizing how nice of a hit it actually was.

The vast majority of his hits are not dirty nor illegal. You guys need to take a minute, watch a game with him against a team that you do not cheer for and analyze his hits without the instant negative reaction if it is your own player getting hit (all fans are guilty of this, myself included).

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12-25-2003, 10:53 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cain
The vast majority of his hits are not dirty nor illegal. You guys need to take a minute, watch a game with him against a team that you do not cheer for and analyze his hits without the instant negative reaction if it is your own player getting hit (all fans are guilty of this, myself included).
I watch a ton of Flames games when they're not playing Edmonton as I have Center Ice.. I still think many of his hits are extremely dirty! I've played hockey for well over 12 years and I know what a hip check looks like.. I'm not denying the fact that Gauthier is one of the best open ice hitters in the game but he often crosses the line between a clean check and a dirty one.

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12-25-2003, 11:03 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral
I watch a ton of Flames games when they're not playing Edmonton as I have Center Ice.. I still think many of his hits are extremely dirty! I've played hockey for well over 12 years and I know what a hip check looks like.. I'm not denying the fact that Gauthier is one of the best open ice hitters in the game but he often crosses the line between a clean check and a dirty one.
Well I think it is a matter of opinion then, because neither of us is going to convince the other...I've played hockey for 12+ years as well, so I am not completely out to lunch.

Maybe both of our favourite team bias is coming into play a bit...I don't know. But I fully disagree with you.

Agree to disagree I guess....

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12-26-2003, 06:28 AM
  #38
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bias does come into this when talking about dirty hits, but then hockey's a physical game and all these professional NHL players realise this and are ready for it. I think every player has given out a dirty hit now and again and in terms of cheap shot artists they do more than their fair share but (example) Gauthier can do that against us whenever he feels like it since Laraque doesnt do his job. I don't think Gauthier would attempt that stuff against the Devils or Leafs since he knows the rest of the team will get it hard including him. What should Lowe do, call up Rocky Thompson give him a couple of games and make Laraque sit! No need to trade him away, ask any other fan in the league if Laraque had a mean streak would they want him? the answer would be HELL YES.

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12-26-2003, 03:44 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by rabi_sultan
bias does come into this when talking about dirty hits, but then hockey's a physical game and all these professional NHL players realise this and are ready for it. I think every player has given out a dirty hit now and again and in terms of cheap shot artists they do more than their fair share but (example) Gauthier can do that against us whenever he feels like it since Laraque doesnt do his job. I don't think Gauthier would attempt that stuff against the Devils or Leafs since he knows the rest of the team will get it hard including him. What should Lowe do, call up Rocky Thompson give him a couple of games and make Laraque sit! No need to trade him away, ask any other fan in the league if Laraque had a mean streak would they want him? the answer would be HELL YES.
Exactly, people sit here and whine but the real problem is Gauthier doesn't have to pay for his actions, and trust me this year he wouldn't dare run from a fight or Warrener would beat him down himself.

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12-26-2003, 05:47 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by kruezer
Exactly, people sit here and whine but the real problem is Gauthier doesn't have to pay for his actions, and trust me this year he wouldn't dare run from a fight or Warrener would beat him down himself.
Sure buddy.

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12-26-2003, 06:25 PM
  #41
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Breaking News

If Gauthier is as clean as you say, Cain, why did he just get a 5-minute major for kneeing and a game misconduct in the game against the Canucks?

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12-26-2003, 06:27 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky83
If Gauthier is as clean as you say, Cain, why did he just get a 5-minute major for kneeing and a game misconduct in the game against the Canucks?
Funny you should mention that...I will await an answer to your question.

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12-26-2003, 06:29 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver
Funny you should mention that...I will await an answer to your question.
Because there are fans who think Gauthier's hits are all clean when most of them are dirty.

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12-26-2003, 06:32 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky83
If Gauthier is as clean as you say, Cain, why did he just get a 5-minute major for kneeing and a game misconduct in the game against the Canucks?
It was not an entirely clean hit. I am not going to defend it....but one game does not make a player a career 'dirty' player...

Oil fans should know this best of all, always reminding flames fans that 'a hot streak does not make a season'.

It would be silly to use one hit as a prime indicator of a player being dirty. Just like it would be equally as silly to use one game to determine a teams success...

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12-26-2003, 06:34 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky83
Because there are fans who think Gauthier's hits are all clean when most of them are dirty.
I just said that I wouldn't defend this one...You sure are the mature type though, jumping to conclusions....

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12-26-2003, 06:37 PM
  #46
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If you did want to debate the kneeing call though, you could argue that Salo tried to dodge at the last moment, thereby 'helping' the knee on knee collision.

I wonder if you even saw it....Salo had his head down till the last minute and then tried to get out of the way at the very last moment...

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12-26-2003, 06:38 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cain
I just said that I wouldn't defend this one...You sure are the mature type though, jumping to conclusions....
Hey. Check when I replied and it was before you replied.

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12-26-2003, 06:39 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Hemsky83
Hey. Check when I replied and it was before you replied.
And your reply implied that I was one of those 'fans'.

A very mature thing to do.

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12-26-2003, 07:14 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Cain
Sure buddy.
Hey whats your problem with that? Its true, and yes I'm a Flame fan, and yes Gauthier can be dirty and no I don't want him on any other team.

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12-26-2003, 07:18 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kruezer
Hey whats your problem with that? Its true, and yes I'm a Flame fan, and yes Gauthier can be dirty and no I don't want him on any other team.
You said that Gauthier is dirty because he doesn't have to pay for his actions.

I guess I just question how dirty he is in the first place? Every player can be dirty at some point, but Gauthier is hardly a consistantly dirty player.

And about running from fights, I never understood that...Gauthier is clearly a bad fighter, and thereby he doens't often fight. And he should not 'have' to fight either.

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