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Pretender or Contender? - Near mid-season

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Old
12-24-2003, 11:03 AM
  #1
lux_interior
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Pretender or Contender? - Near mid-season

In terms of winning the Stanley Cup in 2004, how do these teams rate at mid-season?

Ottawa

Philadelphia

New Jersey

Colorado

Dallas

Detroit

St. Louis

Los Angeles

San Jose

Anaheim

Calgary

Montreal

Atlanta

Vancouver

Tampa Bay

Nashville

Minnesota

NY Rangers

NY Islanders

Boston

Toronto

(Sorry forgot Trawna)


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Old
12-24-2003, 11:06 AM
  #2
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Ottawa - contender

Philadelphia - contender

New Jersey - contender

Colorado - contender

Dallas - pretender

Detroit - contender

St. Louis - pretender

Los Angeles - pretender

San Jose - pretender

Anaheim - pretender

Calgary - pretender

Montreal - pretender

Atlanta - pretender

Vancouver - depends on goaltending

Tampa Bay - pretender

Nashville pretender

Minnesota pretender

NY Rangers pretender

NY Islanders pretender

Boston pretender

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Old
12-24-2003, 11:13 AM
  #3
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Ottawa - contender

Philadelphia - pretender, just the lone fact that New Jersey OWNS them

New Jersey - contender

Colorado - contender

Dallas - pretender

Detroit - contender

St. Louis - pretender

Los Angeles - pretender

San Jose - pretender

Anaheim - pretender

Calgary - pretender

Montreal - pretender

Atlanta - pretender

Vancouver - depends on goaltending

Tampa Bay - pretender

Nashville pretender

Minnesota pretender

NY Rangers pretender

NY Islanders pretender

Boston pretender

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Old
12-24-2003, 11:15 AM
  #4
lux_interior
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I'd pretty much agree with the above, with the exception that I condsider St. Louis a contender. Also I think Philly is a definite contender.

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12-24-2003, 11:15 AM
  #5
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Ottawa --- Pretender

Philadelphia --- Contender

New Jersey --- Contender

Colorado --- Contender

Dallas --- Pretender

Detroit -- Definite Contender

St. Louis --- Contender

Los Angeles -- Pretender

San Jose --- Pretender

Anaheim --- Pretender unless Jiggy turns back into Superman

Calgary --- Contender

Montreal --- Pretender

Atlanta --- Pretender

Vancouver --- Contender

Tampa Bay --- Contender

Nashville --- Pretender

Minnesota --- Pretender

NY Rangers --- Pretender

NY Islanders --- Pretender

Boston --- Pretender

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Old
12-24-2003, 11:24 AM
  #6
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I guess I'll post em in order as I see right now:

1. New Jersey: Defending champs. Playing well and always raise their game come playoff time. I say they're odds on favorite.

2. Detroit: Good depth, and will be good when Hasek returns healthy. Not sure how the old legs will holdup playoff time, but they're one of the faves.

3. Philadelphia: Best team they've iced in a long time. They still don't have a game breaking goalie, but they may not need it. If Hackett plays decently and the offensive and D are running on all cylinders, they could win it all. If they trade for a premiere goalie, I think they become favorites.

4. Ottawa
Vancouver
Colorado

These 3 teams are about even. Ottawa needs to wake up and soon, Vancouver needs Cloutier to keep playing well and take it to another level come playoff time, and Colorado needs to get healthy and possibly trade for a goalie. I don't think Aebischer will win them the Cup. You didn't list Toronto, but I put them in this group as well.

7. St. Louis

Always ice a good regular season team, never won a Cup. Maybe it could be their year, but I'll believe it when I see it. Pronger will help a lot and Osgood, while not a premiere goalie, is a good playoff performer.

From this point on, we go from the contenders to the middle of the pack.

8. Los Angeles

Very good team on paper and on the ice so far this year, and have suffered a lot of injuries. If they stay healthy they could possibly go all the way, but they're a darkhorse.

9. Atlanta

Good team, but young. That could hurt them. Don't see them going all the way, but could win two rounds.

I won't bother giving these teams rankings because they're all similar and really have no shot, but here ya go:

Calgary
Playing great this year, but don't see them going far if they make the playoffs.
Dallas
Need to get their act together. May not even make the playoffs but if they do, they have the type of players that could do some damage.
Tampa Bay
Still not sold on this team. Make the playoffs, but first round exit.
Boston
Another nosedive. If they make it to the postseason they're going down, unless Raycroft wins the series for them.
Montreal
Average team, on the playoff bubble. They'll go as far as Theo takes them, and I don't think that's all the way. If they make the playoffs, probably 1 round and they're out.
San Jose
Haven't seen em much this year, so I won't comment.
NY Rangers
Rangers defy physics. I pick them to make the playoffs every year and I'm wrong. So I'll say won't make the playoffs. If they do, I don't think they have the right character players to go far. Holik would be awesome though.
Minnesota
On the playoff bubble. If they make it, their boring style of hockey can win them a round or two against undisciplined teams. But when they meet the top guys they go down.
Nashville
Bright future, but not this year. Would like to see them make the playoffs for all the Nashville fans. They put up with a lot of crap with people telling them they don't deserve a team and whatnot.
Anaheim
Wheel's have fallen off. Have the right tools, but something's not clicking. And Giggy won't repeat, so slim to no chance at the Cup. I see at most a first round exit.
NY Islanders
Picking it up a bit lately but they have no goaltending and Yashin usually disappears come April.

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Old
12-24-2003, 11:37 AM
  #7
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Ottawa --- Contender - Martin a losing streak away from E.I.

Philadelphia --- Contender - depth at forward, decent goaltending

New Jersey --- Contender - probably have <150 GA (Brodeur!)

Colorado --- Pretender - goaltending is not the problem!

Dallas --- Pretender - goalscoring has disappeared - darkhorse?

Detroit -- Contender - wait until hatcher is back!

St. Louis --- Contender - if only they'd play like this in april...

Los Angeles -- Contender - Checkmanek is the question mark.

San Jose --- Pretender - marco sturm will lead wingers with 20 goals (maybe)!

Anaheim --- Pretender - chistov is nonexistant, giguere is human again

Calgary --- Contender - scoring depth, goaltending, defense

Montreal --- Pretender - still get outworked, outplayed

Atlanta --- Pretender - scoring goals but goaltending isn't strong

Vancouver --- Contender - hedberg took pittsburgh to the conference finals...

Tampa Bay --- Pretender - bursting at the seams - vinny is unhappy (sob)

Nashville --- Contender - nothing wrong here. look out detroit!

Minnesota --- Pretender - no game breaker this year

NY Rangers --- Pretender - it's the same old rangers...

NY Islanders --- Pretender - hot and cold, lucky to make playoffs

Boston --- Pretender - no desire

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Old
12-24-2003, 11:42 AM
  #8
Poignant Discussion
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Contenders

New Jersey
Philly
Toronto
Colorado
St Louis
Detroit
Vancouver

Pretenders

Anyone not listed

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Old
12-24-2003, 11:51 AM
  #9
LuckyLUC20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NataSatan666
Contenders

New Jersey
Philly
Toronto
Colorado
St Louis
Detroit
Vancouver

Pretenders

Anyone not listed
agree with this... except I'd add Ottawa to the contenders list.

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Old
12-24-2003, 11:52 AM
  #10
Gibsons Finest
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Ottawa-Contender

Philadelphia-Contender

New Jersey-Contender

Colorado-Contender

Dallas-Pretender

Detroit-Contender

St. Louis-Contender

Los Angeles-Pretender(Injuries will catch up)

San Jose-Pretender

Anaheim-Pretender, unless Fedorov is last years' Fedorov and Jiggy goes back to playoff form

Calgary-Pretender, unless Kipper stays consistant and Iggy returns to form

Montreal-Pretender

Atlanta-Contender, as long as they keep on keeping on

Vancouver-Contender, as long as Clouts and Hedberg are healthy

Tampa Bay-Pretender

Nashville-Pretender

Minnesota-Pretender

NY Rangers-Pretender

NY Islanders-Pretender

Boston-Pretender

Toronto-Contender

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Old
12-24-2003, 11:54 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyLUC20
agree with this... except I'd add Ottawa to the contenders list.
No, that list was just fine. The Sens haven't given me any indication why they will be a threat so far. Still a long season so anything can happen but the thread starter specificly asked near mid season, which is between now and a week.

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Old
12-24-2003, 12:01 PM
  #12
Missionhockey
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Ottawa-contender

Philadelphia-somewhere in between. I don't think Hackett will take them far. Maybe if they traded for someone better

New Jersey-contender could use some offense but thats something they seem to never have

Colorado-somewhere in between (see Philadelphia)

Dallas-pretender

Detroit-contender

St. Louis-pretender

Los Angeles-pretender

San Jose-pretender

Anaheim-pretender, I don't see Giguiere repeating his performance

Calgary-pretender

Montreal-pretender

Atlanta-pretender

Vancouver-somewhere in between (Philly, Colorado)

Tampa Bay-pretender

Nashville-pretender

Minnesota- I guess I should never doubt this team but I don't see them going far. Leaning toward pretender

NY Rangers-pretender

NY Islanders-pretender

Boston-pretender

Toronto-contender

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Old
12-24-2003, 12:11 PM
  #13
TexSen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swflyers8
Ottawa --- Pretender

Philadelphia --- Contender

New Jersey --- Contender

Colorado --- Contender

Dallas --- Pretender

Detroit -- Definite Contender

St. Louis --- Contender

Los Angeles -- Pretender

San Jose --- Pretender

Anaheim --- Pretender unless Jiggy turns back into Superman

Calgary --- Contender

Montreal --- Pretender

Atlanta --- Pretender

Vancouver --- Contender

Tampa Bay --- Contender

Nashville --- Pretender

Minnesota --- Pretender

NY Rangers --- Pretender

NY Islanders --- Pretender

Boston --- Pretender

How about we just make it three years in a row just to finally convince you that Hackett/Esche isn't going to cut it.

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Old
12-24-2003, 12:23 PM
  #14
south-sentral
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Ottawa- contender

Philadelphia- borderline...if their leaders show up for the playoffs they can make a run otherwise i haven't seen anything special from them in the post-season

New Jersey- Contenders

Colorado- Contenders

Dallas- Pretenders..

Detroit- Contenders

St. Louis- Same as Philly

Los Angeles- Pretenders..could shock some ppl tho

San Jose- pretenders

Anaheim-pretenders

Calgary- pretenders

Montreal- pretenders

Atlanta-pretenders

Vancouver-contenders

Tampa Bay- pretenders

Nashville- pretenders

Minnesota-pretenders

NY Rangers-pretenders

NY Islanders-pretenders

Boston-pretenders

Toronto- Contenders

Edit: For those of you who are not sold on Ottawa, they have turned it around with only two losses in the month of Dec.


Last edited by south-sentral: 12-24-2003 at 12:26 PM.
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Old
12-24-2003, 12:43 PM
  #15
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south-sentral,

LA always does well in the playoffs, knocking of detroit and taking colorado to seven for example, but apparently the secret is still not out!

ah, the grand comedy that is the NHL...

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Old
12-24-2003, 01:11 PM
  #16
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Originally Posted by Modano = God
No, that list was just fine. The Sens haven't given me any indication why they will be a threat so far. Still a long season so anything can happen but the thread starter specificly asked near mid season, which is between now and a week.
I agree. They've stemmed the tide of all the early season losses, but the Senators still aren't anywhere near the same dominating machine they were last season by any stretch. Things are looking up for them outside of the Varada injury, but Lalime's play has dipped significantly to the point of Martin alluding to maybe this is the year we run with Prusek a lot more and the crazy offensive magic where the team could run up 4 or 5 goals straight without allowing a single one seems to be wearing off more and more.

 
Old
12-24-2003, 01:32 PM
  #17
Habsaku
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Looger

Montreal --- Pretender - still get outworked, outplayed
They may be pretenders but you should watch a few games, no way do they get outworked and outplayed anymore. Ask Toronto or Philadelphia if they outplayed and outworked the Habs for their wins. Losses lately have been bad bounces and unlucky breaks, not poor efforts.

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12-24-2003, 01:56 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unthinkable
I agree. They've stemmed the tide of all the early season losses, but the Senators still aren't anywhere near the same dominating machine they were last season by any stretch. Things are looking up for them outside of the Varada injury, but Lalime's play has dipped significantly to the point of Martin alluding to maybe this is the year we run with Prusek a lot more and the crazy offensive magic where the team could run up 4 or 5 goals straight without allowing a single one seems to be wearing off more and more.
Ottawa is +31 in goals for vs. goals against (2nd only to Detroit). They still administer some good beatdowns when the mood strikes them. Lots of other good points: 7-3-2-1 on the road and 4th overall in both PP and PK. The biggest problem seems to be in their heads. Lack of effort sometimes and other times they're too cute. We'll see, for all the crappy play they are still doing quite well. I would say they are still a contender but the play we've seen from them makes them fall back from favourites.

On the whole, there is no big contenders this season. This will probably change over the year but:

Co-favourites:
1. NJ: they always seem to do well. They have the best goalie and the only really dominant goalie left in the league. But every year they lose a player and they are no offensive machine. Favourites with a weakness.
2. Detroit: Lots of talent. Lots of older talent. Goaltending stats are less than impressive. They won't realize how much they miss Federov until the playoffs. Favourites with a weakness.

Other possibles:
1. Toronto: hottest team in the league. Some top end talent and a good goalie. Defence remains manned by some substandard talent. They are an older team and always seem to bow out after getting banged up. I guess I feel they are a serious threat early in the playoffs but don't have the gas to go the distance.
2.Vancouver: They have the best line in hockey. They have superior defencemen in Jovo and Ohlund. A good coach in Crawford. They have Dan Cloutier, a suspect goalie. They have a history of collapse (vs. Detroit and Minnesota). Secondary scoring? If Bertuzzi or Naslund go down...
3. Philly: Big and strong, with a great coach. It's the goaltending as usual. History plays a part - out in the first round 4 out of the last 6 years, even though they always look good going in. Can the defence move the puck against trap teams?
4. Ottawa: Talent out the ears. Young and improving players that are adding playoff experience. Last year they almost made it. This year they have been inconsistent at best. Goaltending - has it become an issue? Do they have enough grit or leadership?
5. St.Louis: see Philly (only not as deep and ignore the defence comment).
6. Los Angeles: Who knows how good they can be when healthy? Will they be healthy?

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Old
12-24-2003, 01:59 PM
  #19
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Originally Posted by Alfie#11
Co-favourites:
1. NJ: they always seem to do well. They have the best goalie and the only really dominant goalie left in the league. But every year they lose a player and they are no offensive machine. Favourites with a weakness.
2. Detroit: Lots of talent. Lots of older talent. Goaltending stats are less than impressive. They won't realize how much they miss Federov until the playoffs. Favourites with a weakness.

Other possibles:
1. Toronto: hottest team in the league. Some top end talent and a good goalie. Defence remains manned by some substandard talent. They are an older team and always seem to bow out after getting banged up. I guess I feel they are a serious threat early in the playoffs but don't have the gas to go the distance.
2.Vancouver: They have the best line in hockey. They have superior defencemen in Jovo and Ohlund. A good coach in Crawford. They have Dan Cloutier, a suspect goalie. They have a history of collapse (vs. Detroit and Minnesota). Secondary scoring? If Bertuzzi or Naslund go down...
3. Philly: Big and strong, with a great coach. It's the goaltending as usual. History plays a part - out in the first round 4 out of the last 6 years, even though they always look good going in. Can the defence move the puck against trap teams?
4. Ottawa: Talent out the ears. Young and improving players that are adding playoff experience. Last year they almost made it. This year they have been inconsistent at best. Goaltending - has it become an issue? Do they have enough grit or leadership?
5. St.Louis: see Philly (only not as deep and ignore the defence comment).
6. Los Angeles: Who knows how good they can be when healthy? Will they be healthy?
What a joke.

You list eight teams and Colorado is not one of them.

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Old
12-24-2003, 02:31 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by Habsaku
They may be pretenders but you should watch a few games, no way do they get outworked and outplayed anymore. Ask Toronto or Philadelphia if they outplayed and outworked the Habs for their wins. Losses lately have been bad bounces and unlucky breaks, not poor efforts.
just because they no longer get outworked EVERY game doesn't mean that they're a 'hard-working' team yet. But they're headed in the right direction, as evidenced by that Nashville game - TSN quotes, "It was Montreal's first third period comeback win since Nov. 20, 2001. Montreal went 0-62-3 in games they trailed at the second intermission over that span."

we'll see if they're relying on theodore for the strech drive, then ask me if they're a hard-working team.

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Old
12-24-2003, 02:39 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Looger
Colorado --- Pretender - goaltending is not the problem!
Calgary --- Contender - scoring depth, goaltending, defense
I don't get it.

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Old
12-24-2003, 02:39 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
What a joke.

You list eight teams and Colorado is not one of them.
you're sure right aboot the joke part. have you watched these guys PLAY?

against calgary and vanouver, two division rivals that are (now) ahead of them in the standings, they looked TERRIBLE. aebisher pulled two points somehow out of those contests. they didn't register a shot against cowtown until the 22nd minute!

a team that bowed out in the first round has a lot to prove to me and HOCKEY fans in general before they are considered a contender. was not the wording, AT THIS POINT OF THE SEASON?

now when forsberg comes back, they will probably go on a tear again. at that point they will be a contender, should it happen. but the way they're looking now?

now if skip bailless (sp?) talked aboot hockey, i'm sure he'd list them as contenders based on their last ten years. this isn't a fourteen-game college ball season where teams are 'better' and 'worse' than their records, give your head a shake.

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12-24-2003, 02:45 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Man
I don't get it.
opinions - gotta love it!

just meant that at this point, calgary is winning the tight games, through sound defense and scoring by committee.

colorado is scoring more goals than the flames, and nearly as stingy D-wise, but to me a team that looks as flat as it has lately is not a contender.

maybe they will prove me wrong - in 01-02 they sure looked bad in a 10-game streak in december or so and it was roy that saved them with some killer 'tending, somehow not getting the hart or vezina. colorado as a team improved vastly in the stretch drive and made their way to a seven-game conference final. now if you'd have asked me at the same point that season if they were a contender, i would have said the exact same thing - no way jose, but goaltending was definitely NOT the issue - same as right now. will history repeat? tends to...

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12-24-2003, 04:43 PM
  #24
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Just as a FYI on the "struggling" Ottawa Senators, they are currently on pace for 97 pts this year. What a HORRIFIC season that would be, 97 pts.

Also as a FYI, they are now 7-2-2 in their last 11 games, which is also the sign of a "struggling team" that hasn't turned it around.

But, I digress, continue to blast away, it seems like some of you are having FUN doing it...

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Old
12-24-2003, 06:16 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by Egil
Just as a FYI on the "struggling" Ottawa Senators, they are currently on pace for 97 pts this year. What a HORRIFIC season that would be, 97 pts.

Also as a FYI, they are now 7-2-2 in their last 11 games, which is also the sign of a "struggling team" that hasn't turned it around.

But, I digress, continue to blast away, it seems like some of you are having FUN doing it...
But has their play during that 7-2-2 really impressed you? Had to rally against the powerful Sabres, beat the sizzling Panthers in OT, lost and tied the fading Bruins. Sure the month started off great, but I can't believe you can tell me that their play of late is "inspired". I don't think anyone can say that the Sens "stink" but they sure look a heck of a lot more beatable than people were making them out to be.

Quote:
1. Toronto: hottest team in the league. Some top end talent and a good goalie. Defence remains manned by some substandard talent. They are an older team and always seem to bow out after getting banged up. I guess I feel they are a serious threat early in the playoffs but don't have the gas to go the distance.
What is this "always" part? It's usually the other way around. They play great when people are banged up, but when they get a full squad they bow out.. heh

Also.. Ed Belfour is a great goalie.. Patrick Lalime is a "good" goalie.


Last edited by shakes: 12-24-2003 at 06:22 PM.
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