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Old
06-01-2007, 08:58 AM
  #26
Jester
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
You sure can. That line was the best in the league for those 8 games. He started the season healthy for once, and played with real skill players like he did here. His speed was not an issue, not even close, and he got and would have continued to get ice time, probably would have eclipsed 60 points.
i'm not giving someone a significant raise for playing less than 10% of the season. that's a completely and utterly absurd way to justify and evaluate ANYONE, let alone a player that has played 509 other games in this league. Handzus is NOT a PPG player, which those 8 games would show you... and he got 58 points as a Flyer, so i'm not sure why 8 games leading to him maybe eclipsing 60 pts is a big deal in justifying anything.

and i think the concerns about his speed are related to the fact that he just destroyed his knee... which you sorta need for speed.

i'm not saying i'd be against signing him, or that he won't be a good player wherever he goes. what i am saying is that reaching strong conclusions on 8 games whilst playing with Martin Havlat, who was playing out of his mind in that stretch as well prior to his injury, is a bit silly.

he's a good player... his tenure with the Hawks neither increased, nor decreased his value beyond concerns about his knee.

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06-01-2007, 09:17 AM
  #27
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He would be good on Carter's LW but I think he's too slow for that line...

I wouldn't mind seeing a line with Richards & Zeus on it, though, but for the right price.

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06-01-2007, 09:22 AM
  #28
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I would take him back in a heartbeat. You go on and on about him being slow, but your just appealing to the "New NHL" rhetoric. The guy knows how to play hockey plain and simple. He would be an awesome last resort first line center here, and in my opinion a damn good fit on Carter's wing.

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06-01-2007, 09:40 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
In the event that Holmgren decides to roll the dice with the thought process that Carter in the next few years is going to make the leap... i don't need to sign a no. 1... then Handzus enters the picture with ease. That's not how I would think at this point, because I think you're potentially putting this team into a rough learning curve situation, but he could go that way.

Another consideration is that Zeus has played some wing... and could conceivably be the LW on Carter's line. He was going to be the wing on Richards line the before Primeau got dinged a couple years ago.
I just don't see it though. I really like Zeus, but our PK is already excellent and we do have some good defensive forwards on the team. I mean, if we couldn't sign anyone else, I'd definitely take him, but I'd prefer Briere and a winger who's more of a traditional playmaker. If we can't get either one for some reason though, then Handzus probably enters the picture.

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06-01-2007, 09:42 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
i'm not giving someone a significant raise for playing less than 10% of the season. that's a completely and utterly absurd way to justify and evaluate ANYONE, let alone a player that has played 509 other games in this league. Handzus is NOT a PPG player, which those 8 games would show you... and he got 58 points as a Flyer, so i'm not sure why 8 games leading to him maybe eclipsing 60 pts is a big deal in justifying anything.

and i think the concerns about his speed are related to the fact that he just destroyed his knee... which you sorta need for speed.

i'm not saying i'd be against signing him, or that he won't be a good player wherever he goes. what i am saying is that reaching strong conclusions on 8 games whilst playing with Martin Havlat, who was playing out of his mind in that stretch as well prior to his injury, is a bit silly.

he's a good player... his tenure with the Hawks neither increased, nor decreased his value beyond concerns about his knee.
When did I say give him a raise?

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06-01-2007, 09:53 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by kz View Post
I would take him back in a heartbeat. You go on and on about him being slow, but your just appealing to the "New NHL" rhetoric. The guy knows how to play hockey plain and simple. He would be an awesome last resort first line center here, and in my opinion a damn good fit on Carter's wing.

He's a very good player but one that suffered a devastating knee injury. He was slow before so new NHL or not, he shouldn't be any faster. It would be quite the risky signing for the amount that it's probably gonna take to get him. I love the way the guy plays but there are probably safer moves to make. It's not like we're setting Stanley Cup goals any time soon. Develop the kids and go after one of the top centers and a defenseman.

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06-01-2007, 09:56 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
When did I say give him a raise?


Someone coming off this type of injury shouldn't be looking for a raise but maybe somehow his hot start will justify this in his agents mind. Definately doesn't justify it in my mind.

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06-01-2007, 10:08 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Bob Clarke Fan Club View Post
Someone coming off this type of injury shouldn't be looking for a raise but maybe somehow his hot start will justify this in his agents mind. Definately doesn't justify it in my mind.
He should get about what he got last season, but he was playing faster and getting more ice time when he was healthy. He'll probably only sign a 1-year deal anyways.

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06-01-2007, 12:20 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
He should get about what he got last season, but he was playing faster and getting more ice time when he was healthy. He'll probably only sign a 1-year deal anyways.
he made 2.1M last season and reportedly wants 4M.

he's an UFA this season for the first time in his career i believe... he's going to get a raise... and i very much doubt he signs a 1-year deal, the market would have to be empty of suitors for that to happen... and people will want Handzus.

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06-01-2007, 02:01 PM
  #35
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He hasnt said what he wants in terms of salary, so we shouldnt go off of news paper reports. Most GMs wouldnt give him a raise for 8 games, but I think he would come back to the flyers in that 2.5-3 range and maybe want a little more to go somewhere else. I think he liekd it here, but thats specualtion, but liek I said Im all for it as long as his price is reasonable.

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06-01-2007, 02:38 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by mdm815 View Post
He hasnt said what he wants in terms of salary, so we shouldnt go off of news paper reports. Most GMs wouldnt give him a raise for 8 games, but I think he would come back to the flyers in that 2.5-3 range and maybe want a little more to go somewhere else. I think he liekd it here, but thats specualtion, but liek I said Im all for it as long as his price is reasonable.
numbers that have been posted in papers aren't invented from thin air in most cases... i would put a bit of faith in the 4M number as it makes sense for Handzus as a negotiating point... he's a guy that can play in any situation, provide decent offense (50+ is nothing to scoff at) while being an exceptional two-way center... his best attribute, IMO, is his ability to cover for his linemates and allow them to be freed up to go get goals themselves (which was the story of the Leclair/Recchi line a couple years back).

i would guess he'll get something in the 3M range, but i might be wrong... i think that number makes sense for a guy that can play 20 minutes a night without hurting your club anywhere.

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06-01-2007, 09:07 PM
  #37
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The papers dont invent anything? How about all the rumors in local papers about the potential Forsberg rental deal? How about all the times that they talked about the two sides coming close to a deal? Papers are made to sell, but otherwise I agree with you.

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06-02-2007, 03:13 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by mdm815 View Post
The papers dont invent anything? How about all the rumors in local papers about the potential Forsberg rental deal? How about all the times that they talked about the two sides coming close to a deal? Papers are made to sell, but otherwise I agree with you.
Look up the term libel some time and some if its historical precedents. You should then come to the conclusion the media can't purely make things up. Embellishment is quite common, but everything they print has to have some kind of source.

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06-02-2007, 03:48 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by mdm815 View Post
The papers dont invent anything? How about all the rumors in local papers about the potential Forsberg rental deal? How about all the times that they talked about the two sides coming close to a deal? Papers are made to sell, but otherwise I agree with you.
...Forsberg got traded in a rental deal, am I missing something? not only that, he got traded to one of the teams most involved in the rumors. Brian Burke in his blog discussed Holmgren talking to him about Forsberg after the fact. And the Flyers DEFINITELY were talking to him about a deal...

there are certainly examples of papers just blatantly making crap up, but the Forsberg example actually proves my point.

yes, papers are made to sell... but papers can't just throw BS out there or they lose complete credibility... and also can run into libel issues. now, obviously with trade rumors and the like you're not talking about something where you're really going to get nailed to the wall... however, the journalistic process isn't one of throwing darts at the wall and just throwing crap out there in most cases. if you do that as a journalist you won't last, and it's a competitive business.

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06-03-2007, 12:15 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Wachovia Center View Post
He would be good on Carter's LW but I think he's too slow for that line...
I agree that he could be a good fit on Carter's wing. And if not, they can just bump him to the third line. Assuming he signs for 2.5-3 mil, I don't think they can go wrong by signing him.

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06-03-2007, 02:13 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by blah View Post
I agree that he could be a good fit on Carter's wing. And if not, they can just bump him to the third line. Assuming he signs for 2.5-3 mil, I don't think they can go wrong by signing him.
That's a ton of money for a slow guy coming off knee surgery to play on a third line.

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06-03-2007, 02:19 PM
  #42
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He's always been more than effective despite his lack of speed. They'd be signing him to play on the second line, and I don't think that's a lot of money for a second line forward.

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06-03-2007, 03:01 PM
  #43
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He's always been more than effective despite his lack of speed. They'd be signing him to play on the second line, and I don't think that's a lot of money for a second line forward.
If they can get him at a reasonable price that's cool. Throw him on wing with Carter and I think they would both do well. Handzus has always been a very good playmaker. I've always considered his offensive skills to be somewhat between those of a second and third liner, but his defensive skills were so valuable that it kept him in a checking line role. Perhaps with a more offensive role he would excel, I just worry about that putting him out of his natural element.

His speed was never something to worry about. He plays an exelent positional game which relies on brains rather than quickness. Guys can play at this level without alot of speed if they understand their limits, and play to their stregnths. Handzus is one of those guys.

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06-03-2007, 04:24 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by kz View Post
I would take him back in a heartbeat. You go on and on about him being slow, but your just appealing to the "New NHL" rhetoric. The guy knows how to play hockey plain and simple. He would be an awesome last resort first line center here, and in my opinion a damn good fit on Carter's wing.
i am not for signing a guy to good money then telling him he has to play out of position...just sign a guy that plays the position you want...if he will take 4th line money and minutes + pk time then welcome aboard...if we trade m. richards to get a top line center or dman then i would sign him as a very good checking line center but other then that he doesn't make sense...i'd rather sign robert lang as a fall back center


Last edited by lancer247: 06-03-2007 at 04:25 PM. Reason: gramar
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06-04-2007, 08:08 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by jrosselli View Post
i am not for signing a guy to good money then telling him he has to play out of position...just sign a guy that plays the position you want...if he will take 4th line money and minutes + pk time then welcome aboard...if we trade m. richards to get a top line center or dman then i would sign him as a very good checking line center but other then that he doesn't make sense...i'd rather sign robert lang as a fall back center
I rather have Handzus then Lang.

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