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Old
05-26-2007, 12:58 PM
  #1
Sunshine
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Possible NYR Draft Day Scenarios -

I ask of this thread to stay separate from the Draft prospects link, I'd like replies to be very specific as to the subject:

OK - Essentially, I believe many teams (in all sports) have a strong inclination towards specific players - so much so that it becomes almost expected that player X goes to either team Y or Z. Whether it be his style, hometown, coaches, agents, etc, this is a business and connections/familiarity/comfort is always at a premium.

The Trade Scenario:
Consider this the grand slam. This would be the big draft day transaction for the entire league:
NYR recieves: #3 overall (Kyle Turris)
PHX receives: G Al Montoya + 17th overall
I don't believe Prucha would be apart of this, I could see a simple Montoya + 17 for the rights to take Turris following Kane and VanRiemsdyk. Turris is the potential #1 center that we so desperately need, is it overpaying? - I think I would pull the trigger.


Stay at #17 scenario:

-Angelo Esposito has the Brady Quinn fall and sits in Sather's lap at 17. Quite frankly, I don't think this is so far-fetched, and looking at the rather sub-par history of the 17th overall selection, selecting Esposito would be an absolute steal.

-Lars Eller - Yea, I've fallen in love with what I've read. Unfortunately, he may be selected in that 11-18 range. IMHO, he may become that top line sniper that goes on to become an exciting 25-30 goal scorer. Watch for this name, I'd love him in Ranger blue.

-Nick Petrecki, I think he has Rangers written all over him. Big strong kid (6'3 213) - he's not preppy soft like Jessiman (I'll get to that later) When you look at Staal, Sanguinetti, Girardi, and so on, you see a lot of offense; Petrecki could be the big bodied punishing top 4 d-man to inflict some pain against the Flyers in the future. Watch for this.

-Kevin Shattenkirk, Back to Jessiman for a second, I believe the fact that Shattenkirk is a Rangers fan from New Rochelle is all well and good, but I don't see it becoming an advantage because it smells a little too much like Darien, CT Jessiman. IMHO, Shattenkirk would be a solid pick - but not in the same ballpark as Petrecki. If we go D-, I want Petrecki.

-Mikael Backlund - Has fallen off the board somewhat, but I still believe he'll be a player. Another thought: what if he falls to early/mid Round 2? - don't rule it out.

*the late rounds will be fun. Between Christier Rockstrom, Gordie Clark, Jan Gajdosik, we have some of the elite eyes for international talent - naturally, I'll be looking for that Czech 5th rounder or Swedish 6th to be taken. IMHO, a lot of thes scouts have proved themselves (Henrik, Prucha, Tyutin) and will be given a more authoritative opportunity to demand a player to be selected, who knows what luck we'll find in '07 -

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05-26-2007, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
I ask of this thread to stay separate from the Draft prospects link, I'd like replies to be very specific as to the subject:

OK - Essentially, I believe many teams (in all sports) have a strong inclination towards specific players - so much so that it becomes almost expected that player X goes to either team Y or Z. Whether it be his style, hometown, coaches, agents, etc, this is a business and connections/familiarity/comfort is always at a premium.

The Trade Scenario:
Consider this the grand slam. This would be the big draft day transaction for the entire league:
NYR recieves: #3 overall (Kyle Turris)
PHX receives: G Al Montoya + 17th overall
I don't believe Prucha would be apart of this, I could see a simple Montoya + 17 for the rights to take Turris following Kane and VanRiemsdyk. Turris is the potential #1 center that we so desperately need, is it overpaying? - I think I would pull the trigger.


Stay at #17 scenario:

-Angelo Esposito has the Brady Quinn fall and sits in Sather's lap at 17. Quite frankly, I don't think this is so far-fetched, and looking at the rather sub-par history of the 17th overall selection, selecting Esposito would be an absolute steal.

-Lars Eller - Yea, I've fallen in love with what I've read. Unfortunately, he may be selected in that 11-18 range. IMHO, he may become that top line sniper that goes on to become an exciting 25-30 goal scorer. Watch for this name, I'd love him in Ranger blue.

-Nick Petrecki, I think he has Rangers written all over him. Big strong kid (6'3 213) - he's not preppy soft like Jessiman (I'll get to that later) When you look at Staal, Sanguinetti, Girardi, and so on, you see a lot of offense; Petrecki could be the big bodied punishing top 4 d-man to inflict some pain against the Flyers in the future. Watch for this.

-Kevin Shattenkirk, Back to Jessiman for a second, I believe the fact that Shattenkirk is a Rangers fan from New Rochelle is all well and good, but I don't see it becoming an advantage because it smells a little too much like Darien, CT Jessiman. IMHO, Shattenkirk would be a solid pick - but not in the same ballpark as Petrecki. If we go D-, I want Petrecki.

-Mikael Backlund - Has fallen off the board somewhat, but I still believe he'll be a player. Another thought: what if he falls to early/mid Round 2? - don't rule it out.

*the late rounds will be fun. Between Christier Rockstrom, Gordie Clark, Jan Gajdosik, we have some of the elite eyes for international talent - naturally, I'll be looking for that Czech 5th rounder or Swedish 6th to be taken. IMHO, a lot of thes scouts have proved themselves (Henrik, Prucha, Tyutin) and will be given a more authoritative opportunity to demand a player to be selected, who knows what luck we'll find in '07 -
we only got 5 picks. i wonder if the rangers will try to trade to get more picks. maybe hossa and the rights to rachunek can get a 4th or 5th round.

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05-26-2007, 01:19 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
I ask of this thread to stay separate from the Draft prospects link, I'd like replies to be very specific as to the subject:

OK - Essentially, I believe many teams (in all sports) have a strong inclination towards specific players - so much so that it becomes almost expected that player X goes to either team Y or Z. Whether it be his style, hometown, coaches, agents, etc, this is a business and connections/familiarity/comfort is always at a premium.

The Trade Scenario:
Consider this the grand slam. This would be the big draft day transaction for the entire league:
NYR recieves: #3 overall (Kyle Turris)
PHX receives: G Al Montoya + 17th overall
I don't believe Prucha would be apart of this, I could see a simple Montoya + 17 for the rights to take Turris following Kane and VanRiemsdyk. Turris is the potential #1 center that we so desperately need, is it overpaying? - I think I would pull the trigger.


Stay at #17 scenario:

-Angelo Esposito has the Brady Quinn fall and sits in Sather's lap at 17. Quite frankly, I don't think this is so far-fetched, and looking at the rather sub-par history of the 17th overall selection, selecting Esposito would be an absolute steal.

-Lars Eller - Yea, I've fallen in love with what I've read. Unfortunately, he may be selected in that 11-18 range. IMHO, he may become that top line sniper that goes on to become an exciting 25-30 goal scorer. Watch for this name, I'd love him in Ranger blue.

-Nick Petrecki, I think he has Rangers written all over him. Big strong kid (6'3 213) - he's not preppy soft like Jessiman (I'll get to that later) When you look at Staal, Sanguinetti, Girardi, and so on, you see a lot of offense; Petrecki could be the big bodied punishing top 4 d-man to inflict some pain against the Flyers in the future. Watch for this.

-Kevin Shattenkirk, Back to Jessiman for a second, I believe the fact that Shattenkirk is a Rangers fan from New Rochelle is all well and good, but I don't see it becoming an advantage because it smells a little too much like Darien, CT Jessiman. IMHO, Shattenkirk would be a solid pick - but not in the same ballpark as Petrecki. If we go D-, I want Petrecki.

-Mikael Backlund - Has fallen off the board somewhat, but I still believe he'll be a player. Another thought: what if he falls to early/mid Round 2? - don't rule it out.

*the late rounds will be fun. Between Christier Rockstrom, Gordie Clark, Jan Gajdosik, we have some of the elite eyes for international talent - naturally, I'll be looking for that Czech 5th rounder or Swedish 6th to be taken. IMHO, a lot of thes scouts have proved themselves (Henrik, Prucha, Tyutin) and will be given a more authoritative opportunity to demand a player to be selected, who knows what luck we'll find in '07 -
if you're rangers, would you wait till next year's draft for someone like tavares instead of this year to unload montoya

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05-26-2007, 01:25 PM
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The Tavares draft choice #1 in 09 will not be tradable...

IMHO, trade Montoya NOW while his value is high in return for an asset that we so sorely need.

I believe Montoya + 17 for 3 is about right.

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05-26-2007, 01:33 PM
  #5
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PS - Callahan, can you confirm which draft picks we're without? - Rd's 4 & 6?

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05-26-2007, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
I ask of this thread to stay separate from the Draft prospects link, I'd like replies to be very specific as to the subject:

OK - Essentially, I believe many teams (in all sports) have a strong inclination towards specific players - so much so that it becomes almost expected that player X goes to either team Y or Z. Whether it be his style, hometown, coaches, agents, etc, this is a business and connections/familiarity/comfort is always at a premium.The Trade Scenario:
Consider this the grand slam. This would be the big draft day transaction for the entire league:
NYR recieves: #3 overall (Kyle Turris)
PHX receives: G Al Montoya + 17th overall
I don't believe Prucha would be apart of this, I could see a simple Montoya + 17 for the rights to take Turris following Kane and VanRiemsdyk. Turris is the potential #1 center that we so desperately need, is it overpaying? - I think I would pull the trigger.


Stay at #17 scenario:

-Angelo Esposito has the Brady Quinn fall and sits in Sather's lap at 17. Quite frankly, I don't think this is so far-fetched, and looking at the rather sub-par history of the 17th overall selection, selecting Esposito would be an absolute steal.

-Lars Eller - Yea, I've fallen in love with what I've read. Unfortunately, he may be selected in that 11-18 range. IMHO, he may become that top line sniper that goes on to become an exciting 25-30 goal scorer. Watch for this name, I'd love him in Ranger blue.

-Nick Petrecki, I think he has Rangers written all over him. Big strong kid (6'3 213) - he's not preppy soft like Jessiman (I'll get to that later) When you look at Staal, Sanguinetti, Girardi, and so on, you see a lot of offense; Petrecki could be the big bodied punishing top 4 d-man to inflict some pain against the Flyers in the future. Watch for this.

-Kevin Shattenkirk, Back to Jessiman for a second, I believe the fact that Shattenkirk is a Rangers fan from New Rochelle is all well and good, but I don't see it becoming an advantage because it smells a little too much like Darien, CT Jessiman. IMHO, Shattenkirk would be a solid pick - but not in the same ballpark as Petrecki. If we go D-, I want Petrecki.

-Mikael Backlund - Has fallen off the board somewhat, but I still believe he'll be a player. Another thought: what if he falls to early/mid Round 2? - don't rule it out.

*the late rounds will be fun. Between Christier Rockstrom, Gordie Clark, Jan Gajdosik, we have some of the elite eyes for international talent - naturally, I'll be looking for that Czech 5th rounder or Swedish 6th to be taken. IMHO, a lot of thes scouts have proved themselves (Henrik, Prucha, Tyutin) and will be given a more authoritative opportunity to demand a player to be selected, who knows what luck we'll find in '07 -

I can agree with that to a certain extent, but if that's the case, wouldn't it make sense to look into dealing an Alex Bourret? I don't believe there is any French Canadien influence on the team. Also, isn't one Sean Avery(who will probably be here for a while) not very fond of French Canadiens? Not saying that I personally would want to see Bourret traded, but accoriding to your theory wouldn't that make Bourret a better trading chip, then say Montoya?

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05-26-2007, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Lion Hound View Post
I can agree with that to a certain extent, but if that's the case, wouldn't it make sense to look into dealing an Alex Bourret? I don't believe there is any French Canadien influence on the team. Also, isn't one Sean Avery(who will probably be here for a while) not very fond of French Canadiens? Not saying that I personally would want to see Bourret traded, but accoriding to your theory wouldn't that make Bourret a better trading chip, then say Montoya?
Not in the least. You're taking what I'm saying to an entirely different level.
1- Bourret was just acquired (a heist) he's not going anywhere
2- I'm quite sure Sean Avery is just fine with French Canadiens (chuckle)
3- Montoya is a pro-ready 1-A goaltender, his value is not comparable with Borrett

And lastly, when I'm talking about drafting, I'm referring an inclination towards certain types of players. i.e. developing strong Czech and Swede routes. Make no mistake, kids from Are to Stockholm see Lundqvist - they want to become Rangers...Sather is an old Western Canada boy, there's a pipeline of WHL (big strong forwards and d-men, i.e. Brodue Dupont is a Sather kid)

Hopefully you understand a bit better now...

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05-26-2007, 01:45 PM
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to me the most likely scenario is the rangers unloading their pick and some existing talent for an elite player for help now and long term. Im not sure why they would trade montoya for a center that would still be a few years away (albeit im no draft expert, but everything ive been told is this entire draft class is quite poor).

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05-26-2007, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
to me the most likely scenario is the rangers unloading their pick and some existing talent for an elite player for help now and long term. Im not sure why they would trade montoya for a center that would still be a few years away (albeit im no draft expert, but everything ive been told is this entire draft class is quite poor).
And what great piece do you think you're going to get with say...Rachunek and #17 or Hossa at #17? - that type of deal just doesn't go down.

You're not sure why you'd trade Montoya for a center?
How about because we have about 20 legitimate 2nd-4th line kids in the system and not a single elite prospect. Turris could be that guy - for the price of an area that we're already set at (Lundqvist)

PS - I don't want to hear any disaster scenarios from anyone ('What if Lundqvist....Blackburn na na na) If something we're to happen, you're snake bitten. You play to win NOT 'not to lose' - Lundqvist is the goaltender of this franchise, Montoya could net us a piece to help capture the prize in the future. Period.

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05-26-2007, 01:50 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
PS - Callahan, can you confirm which draft picks we're without? - Rd's 4 & 6?
I know we gave up a 3rd for Bourret

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05-26-2007, 01:52 PM
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I'd do Montoya and our 2nd for a top 5 pick. Don't think I want to package a former #6 (who is just about ready for the NHL) and a #17 to get a top 5.

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05-26-2007, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Lundqvist=Vezina View Post
I know we gave up a 3rd for Bourret
Correct, we are without our 3rd and 4th round picks. Not sure about the 6th round.

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05-26-2007, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
I'd do Montoya and our 2nd for a top 5 pick. Don't think I want to package a former #6 (who is just about ready for the NHL) and a #17 to get a top 5.
and that's fair enough - point well taken, but when you look at the history of 17 overall...and then look at Turris' upside as a franchise #1 center for 12 years, you may be singing a different tune.

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05-26-2007, 01:54 PM
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I think it's almost necessary that the Rangers take a scoring forward in the 1st round this year. Our defense is looking strong for years to come and there's really no need for a d-man. The Rangers lack a sure-fire top line scorer for the future. We got guys like Callahan, Prucha, Bourret, and Dubi, but nobody with true top line talent.

If Espo drops to 10 or even past that, the Rangers should try and move up. I'm liking Eller as well. I think we have a realistic shot at at least one of these guys if we can just move to around the 10th spot.

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05-26-2007, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
And what great piece do you think you're going to get with say...Rachunek and #17 or Hossa at #17? - that type of deal just doesn't go down.

You're not sure why you'd trade Montoya for a center?
How about because we have about 20 legitimate 2nd-4th line kids in the system and not a single elite prospect. Turris could be that guy - for the price of an area that we're already set at (Lundqvist)

PS - I don't want to hear any disaster scenarios from anyone ('What if Lundqvist....Blackburn na na na) If something we're to happen, you're snake bitten. You play to win NOT 'not to lose' - Lundqvist is the goaltender of this franchise, Montoya could net us a piece to help capture the prize in the future. Period.
i never said hossa and the 17th pick, nor did i say not to trade montoya.all im saying is, why bother trading up for a pick that "could be that guy" when you can put a package of kids together and get someone who "IS THAT GUY"

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05-26-2007, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
i never said hossa and the 17th pick, nor did i say not to trade montoya.all im saying is, why bother trading up for a pick that "could be that guy" when you can put a package of kids together and get someone who "IS THAT GUY"
Inferno, give me a package with a couple options of who you would want in return.

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05-26-2007, 02:19 PM
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Personally I don't like the idea of trading Montoya. He is our insurance policy. God forbid something happened to Lundqvist then. We'd be screwed--because despite what others might think there is no way that Weekes or Valiquette gets this team into the playoffs. We'll be hunting around for the next version of Mike Dunham just to keep any hope alive. The other thing is Kane, Van Riemsdyk, Turris, Voracek etc. all look like they'll be very good players however none of them look to be like a Crosby, Malkin, Kovalchuk, Heatley etc. So I question the need to move up when the probability is you'll wind up with a maybe a good first line player--but probably not an elite one--at the same time someone like Eller might fall into your hands anyway and turn out as good or almost as good as those undrafted prospects named above. The other thing I wonder about is why Phoenix and Turris? Why not Philly and Van Riemsdyk? Kind of throwing the dice trading a potential elite goalie to a divisional rival but if we're throwing the dice anyway--why not for Van Riemsdyk if you think he's a better player?

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05-26-2007, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Personally I don't like the idea of trading Montoya. He is our insurance policy. God forbid something happened to Lundqvist then. We'd be screwed--because despite what others might think there is no way that Weekes or Valiquette gets this team into the playoffs. We'll be hunting around for the next version of Mike Dunham just to keep any hope alive. The other thing is Kane, Van Riemsdyk, Turris, Voracek etc. all look like they'll be very good players however none of them look to be like a Crosby, Malkin, Kovalchuk, Heatley etc. So I question the need to move up when the probability is you'll wind up with a maybe a good first line player--but probably not an elite one--at the same time someone like Eller might fall into your hands anyway and turn out as good or almost as good as those undrafted prospects named above. The other thing I wonder about is why Phoenix and Turris? Why not Philly and Van Riemsdyk? Kind of throwing the dice trading a potential elite goalie to a divisional rival but if we're throwing the dice anyway--why not for Van Riemsdyk if you think he's a better player?

i can see us taking a forward with the first round, and maybe a goalie in the 2ed round. that is what I think will happen. I doubt Sather takes a goalie in the first round but with him u never know, not saying it will be a bad thing.

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05-26-2007, 02:33 PM
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Yea...Montoya to Philly-that makes sense.
...the hockey IQ here frightens me.

PHX is a perfect destination (goalie need, Sather/Gretzky, non-conference)

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05-26-2007, 02:41 PM
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Inferno, give me a package with a couple options of who you would want in return.
without being an actual GM and knowing what is available ill do my best.

Montoya, prucha, our first for lecavalier or Horton or Jokinen

montoya, our first, dawes, a 3rd rounder for Marleau

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05-26-2007, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
without being an actual GM and knowing what is available ill do my best.

Montoya, prucha, our first for lecavalier or Horton or Jokinen

montoya, our first, dawes, a 3rd rounder for Marleau

I'm not a GM either but I do have a fairly decent idea -
Re: Lecavalier (or a similar talent/age/$) would require 5 1sts as compensation when/if signed as a FA - so I don't think you're offers are poor, in fact - well done inferno, Realistic certainly.

FL is a good match for Montoya for many reasons (goalie need, Cuban connections, non-Atlantic div)
I think Montoya, Prucha + 17 may come close to getting Jokinen, but I'm not familiar with their financial situation either. At 20 yo, Horton won't be paid for a while so Jokinen is more of a reason for a smaller market team to deal Jokinen.

Bottom line, well done....Should we stick tight at 17 and contnue to hold Montoya, I could see a similar situation that you illustrate above involving a player like Jokinen for Montoya, Prucha + an Immonen B-level type

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05-26-2007, 03:26 PM
  #22
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we only got 5 picks. i wonder if the rangers will try to trade to get more picks. maybe hossa and the rights to rachunek can get a 4th or 5th round.
If they trade Hossa now for a 4th rounder I'd be very upsett

That would be sooo the old Rangers too. Trade him just as he finds some game.....

Hossa should get the opportunity to earn a permanant place on Jagrs opposite wing.

If Hossa goes in a trade for an elite center I get it....but for a pick...now?

ugh

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05-26-2007, 03:27 PM
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re: avery

his beef was he generalized the french canadian players WITH visors as cowards since you aren't supposed to fight if you have a visor and they would act tough knowing the visor "protected" them from having to fight. if he meets a french canadian without a visor or one willing to drop the helmet and go, he will definitely have respect for that one.

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05-26-2007, 03:28 PM
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If they trade Hossa now for a 4th rounder I'd be very upsett

That would be sooo the old Rangers too. Trade him just as he finds some game.....

Hossa should get the opportunity to earn a permanant place on Jagrs opposite wing.

If Hossa goes in a trade for an elite center I get it....but for a pick...now?

ugh
Mike Knuble?

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05-26-2007, 03:37 PM
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WHY would we trade Montoya, Prucha, and other assets for a Center when we can just sign one for a premier for just money alone????


Give Gomez his $6 mil over 5 years and call it a day....

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