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Ortmeyer and Prucha

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Old
06-04-2007, 11:18 AM
  #26
Kodiak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 51tyutin51 View Post
IMO Moore can get 10-15 goals. I see him in the Hossa mold except more of a power forward. Sometimes these power forwards translate their game differently at the nhl level. He was really good during pre-season, all over the ice.
You can believe that, but you have no real basis for it. I believed that Immonen would run away with a center spot this year, but it didn't happen.

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06-04-2007, 11:27 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodiak View Post
If you want to argue that a player is going to produce at the NHL level, you have to be able to point to success in the AHL (or Europe). Moore scored 8 goals in 79 games last year. Ortmeyer probably scores 5 goals in a full year. If Moore makes the Rangers, he will have less ice time and absolutely no PP time. Even if Moore can somehow match his AHL production, how much of a difference does 3 goals make? You'd have to find someone that can score 10-15 goals before I think we'd have a significant upgrade over Ortmeyer.

EDIT: I'm not arguing that Moore is not a safe player or a Renney type. I'm arguing that Moore has a lot to prove before his offensive prowess makes him an upgrade over Ortmeyer.
Hollweg scored 8 goals in the AHL as well. Byers would be a better option to replace Hollweg or Orts

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06-04-2007, 11:27 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodiak View Post
You can believe that, but you have no real basis for it. I believed that Immonen would run away with a center spot this year, but it didn't happen.
No one ever has real basis on any player until they put on those skates and play on nhl ice for a period of time. I just think I've seen enough to throw what I think. If I'm wrong then I'll reply to you and admit that I was wrong. I just see Moore as a player who would be a bull along the boards and score around 10 goals w/ a solid defensive game. I'll say this much. He's going to be awesome in pre-season again, and in training camp. But whether he makes it or not I dont know, I just think he'd be the best fit on the 4th line RW position in place of Orty and would be an upgrade, JMO.

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06-04-2007, 11:58 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by 51tyutin51 View Post
It's not hard at all to be a fierce forechecker and produce more then Ortmeyer. .

I think you are flat out wrong. Theoretically, it's easy. Until you see case after case of more skilled guys NOT being able to do it. Ortmeyer makes huge plays every game, they just don't make the highlights because blocked shots and having your stick in the passing lane aren't highlight material. Sound defensive position isn't "sexy" enough for ESPN. Trust me, what this kid does, any coach would love. I think you are really selling him short when you think that anybody in our system can do it, especially when you are talking about playing great defensive hockey in the best league in the world against the best offensive players in the world. Ortmeyer was injured, the PK sucked. The goals against was terrible. The team was in shambles. Lundqvist looked human. Ortmeyer comes back after Xmas, and hey! Look how great Lundqvist is playing again! Look how good the PK just got! The team is winning again! Do you know what the difference between an Allstar NHL goalie and a guy being sent to the AHL is? Probably a little over 1 goal against per game. If you don't think that what Ortmeyer does to keep the goals against down more than compensates for the amount a guy who takes his spot would put up as a fourth line winger with no PP time, you're crazy. If he hits the market, he lasts about ten minutes before his phone is ringing with offers from other teams. GOOD teams.

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06-04-2007, 12:35 PM
  #30
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A few things:

The Rangers philosophy as stated by Maloney was that trading a player like Prucha for anything less than a solid long term return made no sense. The example he gave was a deal that had been rumored for Rucinsky. Maloney laughed at that one, but he's gone now so we will see.

IMO trading Prucha for an untested 18 yr old makes very little sense either. Adding Montoya into the deal only makes less sense. Prucha gives the Rangers something they need more of: a proven 2nd/3rd line scorer.

A deal that had been rumored involved Nathan Horton. Prucha and Montoya were mentioned as possibles. To me, this is an example of a deal to seriously consider.

As far as Orts goes, my feeling is that the Rangers rebuild has come to it's first cross roads. The team needs more balanced scoring from lines 2-4. Jed has proven that he can not finish. It's hard, but I see him being pushed aside or traded.

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06-04-2007, 12:59 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
As far as Orts goes, my feeling is that the Rangers rebuild has come to it's first cross roads. The team needs more balanced scoring from lines 2-4. Jed has proven that he can not finish. It's hard, but I see him being pushed aside or traded.

I can't disagree. I think wholeheartedly that if we can find a kid who plays like Jed who has even slightly more offensive production, then we have to move along and part ways. But that is the qualifier. He has to play defense like Ortmeyer does, AND put some goals in. Plus, he has to be a guy who is a fourth liner and not a malcontent clamoring for more icetime. IMO, finding this character is alot easier said than done.

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06-04-2007, 01:16 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCallahan43 View Post
do we have another hard worker like Orts who blocks shots and does the little things in Hartford?? Greg Moore, Byers, Korpikoski, Helminen??

Helminen does that now in Hartford, but I don't think he will be on the big club next season.

For Moore I guess training camp will say alot. I don't think it would be a bad idea either if the Rangers made an attempt to move Dubinsky to the wing. He will probably have abetter chance of making the club in that scenerio, either as a 3rd or 4th liner.

For Orts, it's not that I want to see the guy go, but Sather has already committed to Hollweg, Orr, and Betts.

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06-04-2007, 01:32 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SML View Post
I can't disagree. I think wholeheartedly that if we can find a kid who plays like Jed who has even slightly more offensive production, then we have to move along and part ways. But that is the qualifier. He has to play defense like Ortmeyer does, AND put some goals in. Plus, he has to be a guy who is a fourth liner and not a malcontent clamoring for more icetime. IMO, finding this character is alot easier said than done.
That's what I've been saying. No way have I been taking ANY credit away from Orty. If Orty played similar defensive/pk hockey and capitalized on his chances, like that chance againt BUF where he just had to roof it.. my god I had a heart attack, then he can stay with the club. But the problem is we have players out there in hartford who can play the same defensive game and produce more offensively. You need to score goals to win hockey games.

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06-04-2007, 03:15 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SML View Post
I can't disagree. I think wholeheartedly that if we can find a kid who plays like Jed who has even slightly more offensive production, then we have to move along and part ways. But that is the qualifier. He has to play defense like Ortmeyer does, AND put some goals in. Plus, he has to be a guy who is a fourth liner and not a malcontent clamoring for more icetime. IMO, finding this character is alot easier said than done.
Your so right.

That is what makes this situation particularly difficult. Orts is such a quality guy in terms of his character. The Rangers just need to keep making character a priority when drafting and things can go along way in taking care of themselves. Callahan is the proof.

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