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2nd line last resort LW

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Old
06-04-2007, 06:56 PM
  #26
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Am I correct when I say I can't help but get the feeling no one even wants to take a look at Jozef Stumpel as the second-line RW to play with Carter and Upshall? If so, why not? He's a proven, durable, consistent veteran who is a pass-first player with exceptional vision and is a virtual lock to up 50-60 points per season. On the surface, he sounds like the perfect complement to help Carter and Upshall further blossom. Furthermore, he won't command an exorbitant salary.

Am I missing something? Is there something so wrong with him to the point that people aren't even bothering to mention his name?

Upshall-Carter-Stumpel looks to me like a very solid scondary scoring line with the potential to do some serious damage on any given night.

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06-04-2007, 07:11 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9teen7ty5 View Post
Am I correct when I say I can't help but get the feeling no one even wants to take a look at Jozef Stumpel as the second-line RW to play with Carter and Upshall? If so, why not? He's a proven, durable, consistent veteran who is a pass-first player with exceptional vision and is a virtual lock to up 50-60 points per season. On the surface, he sounds like the perfect complement to help Carter and Upshall further blossom. Furthermore, he won't command an exorbitant salary.

Am I missing something? Is there something so wrong with him to the point that people aren't even bothering to mention his name?

Upshall-Carter-Stumpel looks to me like a very solid scondary scoring line with the potential to do some serious damage on any given night.
Well, you might want to Kings fans about Stumpel, but the one thing about Jozef Stumpel that I remember reading about him was that he's a lazy player and that there have been reports of him being a malcontent in the locker room. He was also one of those guys earlier in his career who always left you wanting more. I'm not sure about Stumpel now, but I'd rather we surround the youngsters with solid veterans who have reputations of being good team guys as well as having talent. That's just me though.

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06-04-2007, 08:36 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Well, you might want to Kings fans about Stumpel, but the one thing about Jozef Stumpel that I remember reading about him was that he's a lazy player and that there have been reports of him being a malcontent in the locker room. He was also one of those guys earlier in his career who always left you wanting more. I'm not sure about Stumpel now, but I'd rather we surround the youngsters with solid veterans who have reputations of being good team guys as well as having talent. That's just me though.
The attitude concern is something I had heard about in the past, although I don't remember hearing much of anything like that over the past 2 seasons while he was in Florida... then again, perhaps the fact that he played for the Panthers had a lot to do with not hearing anything.

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06-04-2007, 08:45 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan808 View Post
my LW UFA selection matrix:

Smyth>Kariya>Kozlov>Sykora>Hartnell>Walker

I think that for a no.2 left wing the last 3 are more suitable options. If we can't get one of these guys use that extra money to throw at another good defensemen. I think that Umberger deserves one last shot to prove he belongs on this team. Otherwise I would trade him at the deadline and have Potulny take his place.

Gagne-UFA-Knuble
Umberger-Carter-Upshall
Sanderson-Richards-Kapanen
Cote-Eager-?

AHL callups: Downie, Potulny, Ruzicka

UFA-UFA
Kukkonen-Pitkanen
Hatcher-Coburn

AHL callups: Parent, Jones, Picard

Biron>Nitty
i would definitely go after zubrus if they are entertaining bringing forsberg back....you need someone the can step up & play center for the 20 games he will miss... i would rather see the flyers spend heavy on dmen even if it means going with umberger on 2nd line...again, flyers have noone in their system that i want to see as an enforcer...i'd rather play a more skilled guy on the 4th line then cote or grant...i still say sign s.parker as enforcer (only one of UFA enforcers worth anything)...sign primeau 4th line center

wildcards: carolina writers were sayingthat canes may let cole &/or stillman go ...issues with the cap & staying healthy...worth the gamble??

knuble-UFA-gags (briere or gomez)
umberger -carter- upshall (umberger & carter hit 20 goals playing w/ dimatrakos)
eager/affy-richards - sami (flip-flop eager & affy depending on matchups)
eager/affy- UFA-parker (parker gives eager freedom to run wild w/o having to be enf)

press box: sanderson (if unable to move him)

timmonen-stuart/hannan
joni-lasse
hatcher-coburn

trade: gauthier
pressbox: jones

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Old
06-04-2007, 09:15 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyerfan808 View Post
my LW UFA selection matrix:

Smyth>Kariya>Kozlov>Sykora>Hartnell>Walker

I think that for a no.2 left wing the last 3 are more suitable options. If we can't get one of these guys use that extra money to throw at another good defensemen. I think that Umberger deserves one last shot to prove he belongs on this team. Otherwise I would trade him at the deadline and have Potulny take his place.

Gagne-UFA-Knuble
Umberger-Carter-Upshall
Sanderson-Richards-Kapanen
Cote-Eager-?

AHL callups: Downie, Potulny, Ruzicka

UFA-UFA
Kukkonen-Pitkanen
Hatcher-Coburn

AHL callups: Parent, Jones, Picard

Biron>Nitty
I would like to see Umberger there as well. In another thread, I used the Penner/Getzlaf/Perry line as a comparison. The ducks left these guys together for the most part for the last year and a little of last year and they have developed great chemistry. Umberger had chemistry with Carter two years ago Upshall this past year, lets put them together and leave them together unless they are just dreadfull.

I would like to see Potulny with Richards and Kapanen and move Sanderson.

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06-04-2007, 09:18 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by jrosselli View Post
i would definitely go after zubrus if they are entertaining bringing forsberg back....you need someone the can step up & play center for the 20 games he will miss... i would rather see the flyers spend heavy on dmen even if it means going with umberger on 2nd line...again, flyers have noone in their system that i want to see as an enforcer...i'd rather play a more skilled guy on the 4th line then cote or grant...i still say sign s.parker as enforcer (only one of UFA enforcers worth anything)...sign primeau 4th line center

wildcards: carolina writers were sayingthat canes may let cole &/or stillman go ...issues with the cap & staying healthy...worth the gamble??

knuble-UFA-gags (briere or gomez)
umberger -carter- upshall (umberger & carter hit 20 goals playing w/ dimatrakos)
eager/affy-richards - sami (flip-flop eager & affy depending on matchups)
eager/affy- UFA-parker (parker gives eager freedom to run wild w/o having to be enf)

press box: sanderson (if unable to move him)

timmonen-stuart/hannan
joni-lasse
hatcher-coburn

trade: gauthier
pressbox: jones
Sanderson does not belong in the pressbox. If I were the penguins I would look at Sanderson as a one year solution with Crosby. Sanderson has always been a 35 goal scorer + when he has a pure playmaker on his line and he still has the speed. Maybe we can get something for him.

I like what you are saying about Zubrus. I had that idea, but a little more of a stretch. Radek Bonk for the 4th line if they sign Forsberg. He has scored in the past and I am sure would be adequate short term on the top line.

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06-05-2007, 12:32 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrosselli View Post
i would definitely go after zubrus
knew I forgot someone:

Smyth>Kariya>Zubrus>Kozlov>Sykora>Hartnell>Walker

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Old
06-05-2007, 07:15 PM
  #33
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RE:

You guys keep mentioning Umberger but he just doesn't fit the second line without making it a negative with his poor defense and passing.
He can score-yes, but he won't be making the other guys score and the line just won't work without being scored upon a lot.
Sanderson>Umberger because of speed and better 2 way play and they both have a scorers touch but are streaky.
I'd even rather see Giroux jump into that line then Umberger.

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06-05-2007, 07:56 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by IceHot View Post
You guys keep mentioning Umberger but he just doesn't fit the second line without making it a negative with his poor defense and passing.
He can score-yes, but he won't be making the other guys score and the line just won't work without being scored upon a lot.
Sanderson>Umberger because of speed and better 2 way play and they both have a scorers touch but are streaky.
I'd even rather see Giroux jump into that line then Umberger.
not that i want Umberger on the 2nd line, but Giroux hasn't even played a single NHL game...

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06-05-2007, 09:50 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IceHot View Post
You guys keep mentioning Umberger but he just doesn't fit the second line without making it a negative with his poor defense and passing.
He can score-yes, but he won't be making the other guys score and the line just won't work without being scored upon a lot.
Sanderson>Umberger because of speed and better 2 way play and they both have a scorers touch but are streaky.
I'd even rather see Giroux jump into that line then Umberger.
How quickly people forget just how good Umberger was in his rookie year, with Carter nevertheless. What has he done to not deserve a shot on the 2nd line?

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06-06-2007, 05:39 AM
  #36
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RE:

What did he do not to deserve second line duties?
His lines let up much more then they scored...
Need I remind you: 81 16 12 28 -32

-32 -32 -32 -32

Regarding Giroux not playing the NHL we all know if they can't cut it in preseason they wouldn't get a shot, however if they do show promise it would be little different then the time Gagne or Williams grew with the team by jumping in the bigs and playing right away.
Does he qualify for the AHL and will he be on the Phantoms?
What about 10 Days then rushing him up after the line with Umberger would all be -10 by then?

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06-06-2007, 11:27 AM
  #37
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Hey guys, what about Brendan Shanahan, assuming he doesn't retire or resign with the Rangers?

I think he'd be a good fit for the team, and he wouldn't demand a big/long salary due to his age.

In fact, his age is probably the only reason NOT to that I can see.

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06-06-2007, 06:57 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Flyers Fan Forever View Post
Hey guys, what about Brendan Shanahan, assuming he doesn't retire or resign with the Rangers?

I think he'd be a good fit for the team, and he wouldn't demand a big/long salary due to his age.

In fact, his age is probably the only reason NOT to that I can see.
Yeah it's been brought up before. I wouldn't be against it at all, but I think he stays in New York.

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06-06-2007, 08:19 PM
  #39
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Vanek>Kariya>Zubrus>Kozlov>Sykora>Hartnell>Walker

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=7894

"Vanek is a whole different ball game altogether.....Although he is actively shopping for a new home, he is a very tempting player to the Rangers, Flyers, and Stars....and just now I got a call that said you can add the Flames to that list as well."

Being a RFA obviously Buffalo has a chance of re-signing him, but if we make a serious offer that drives his price up forcing them to be tight with the cap we still win because we are hurting Buffalo.

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Old
06-06-2007, 09:53 PM
  #40
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I dunno, personally, and I know a lot of you will hate the idea but if we could get Kariya relatively cheap, he'd be a great fit IMO.

He's become much more of a playmaker now than goalscorer, and would work well with his speed and agility with Carter and Upshall.

I personally like:

Gagne-Briere-Knuble
Kariya-Carter-Upshall

Each line has good speed and grit, IMO.

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Old
06-06-2007, 11:51 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
How quickly people forget just how good Umberger was in his rookie year, with Carter nevertheless. What has he done to not deserve a shot on the 2nd line?
And how he was the best of the young players for half of last season, until they moved him to a different position each shift he was out there.

Sorry for being a broken record guys but
Penner/Getzlaf/Perry = Umberger/Carter/Upshall (almost) Meaning, put the young guys together and let them develop together. If it doesnt work after an extended look this year, we move Umberger cause I dont think he fits anywhere else on this team.

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Old
06-07-2007, 03:23 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by thedjpd View Post
I dunno, personally, and I know a lot of you will hate the idea but if we could get Kariya relatively cheap, he'd be a great fit IMO.

He's become much more of a playmaker now than goalscorer, and would work well with his speed and agility with Carter and Upshall.

I personally like:

Gagne-Briere-Knuble
Kariya-Carter-Upshall

Each line has good speed and grit, IMO.
Speed and goal scoring I can see that but not too much grit.

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Old
06-07-2007, 06:02 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
And how he was the best of the young players for half of last season, until they moved him to a different position each shift he was out there.

Sorry for being a broken record guys but
Penner/Getzlaf/Perry = Umberger/Carter/Upshall (almost) Meaning, put the young guys together and let them develop together. If it doesnt work after an extended look this year, we move Umberger cause I dont think he fits anywhere else on this team.
Upshall and Umberger don't have the size of Penner and Perry, and I'd take Penner any day of the week over Umberger. By far.

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Old
06-07-2007, 06:26 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
And how he was the best of the young players for half of last season, until they moved him to a different position each shift he was out there.

Sorry for being a broken record guys but
Penner/Getzlaf/Perry = Umberger/Carter/Upshall (almost) Meaning, put the young guys together and let them develop together. If it doesnt work after an extended look this year, we move Umberger cause I dont think he fits anywhere else on this team.
You know something Mike, I like the idea of that. I suggested flipping Upshall for Knuble, but yeah, might as well let our young guns develop together. I don't understand why everyone is crapping on Umberger all of a sudden after he had such a promising rookie year. This was a guy who never had consistent linemates, ice time or anything like that, yet he never complained and just played. Yeah, he slumped, but so do the whole team for that matter. I'm willing to bet that when camp and the season opens this year, the young guns are going to be MUCH different players than last year and I'm willing to bet that Umberger, Carter, Upshall, Richards, Pitkanen, Coburn and Picard really step their games up ten notches.

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06-07-2007, 06:35 PM
  #45
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Here's one and it involves going the trade route:

To Ottawa: The 23rd pick in the 2007 draft

To Philadelphia: Antoine Vermette

I think Vermette could be had and I think he'd be a dynamite fit in the Flyers organization. He's got speed to burn, has a good set of hands, and would fit in quite well on the 2nd line. When you consider that he's stuck on the third line in Ottawa, maybe they go for the 23rd pick and use someone like Patrick Eaves or Oleg Saprykin in that 3rd line role.

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06-08-2007, 11:27 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Storm in a Teacup View Post
Upshall and Umberger don't have the size of Penner and Perry, and I'd take Penner any day of the week over Umberger. By far.
You're right, I just hope you arent missing my point. My comparison is not in the talent level of the players, but the method of building chemistry among young players. If they show some chemistry together, leave them alone and let them grow togethere. We see what happened with the Duck's line. That is why I said they would be like that line (almost)!!

Umberger has size, he just doesnt use it, and I am sure Carter will grow into his body a little more as well.

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06-08-2007, 11:30 AM
  #47
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You know something Mike, I like the idea of that. I suggested flipping Upshall for Knuble, but yeah, might as well let our young guns develop together. I don't understand why everyone is crapping on Umberger all of a sudden after he had such a promising rookie year. This was a guy who never had consistent linemates, ice time or anything like that, yet he never complained and just played. Yeah, he slumped, but so do the whole team for that matter. I'm willing to bet that when camp and the season opens this year, the young guns are going to be MUCH different players than last year and I'm willing to bet that Umberger, Carter, Upshall, Richards, Pitkanen, Coburn and Picard really step their games up ten notches.
I am glad you mentioned Picard. It seems like everyone has him pegged as the 7th guy or in the minors this year. I think he deserves to be a regular and we need to move Hatcher or Gauthier. He did not look out of place in the NHL towards the end of the season and if you pair him with whoever our big FA signing might be (Timonen) I think he will work out well. He just seems to be one of those guys that will develop into a very very steady #4 dman who doesnt do one think exceptionally well, but is consistent every night. A lesser version of Desjardins. I dont expect him to be that next year, but I dont think being in the AHL is going to help him at all.

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06-08-2007, 06:32 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
You're right, I just hope you arent missing my point. My comparison is not in the talent level of the players, but the method of building chemistry among young players. If they show some chemistry together, leave them alone and let them grow togethere. We see what happened with the Duck's line. That is why I said they would be like that line (almost)!!

Umberger has size, he just doesnt use it, and I am sure Carter will grow into his body a little more as well.
Nah, I wasn't missing your point. I'm all for setting lines and letting them grow, I just don't see Umberger as a second line option. Because their collective skill level isn't equal to Anaheim's line, we can't expect them to produce enough to be a 2nd line on a playoff team.

Since that left winger isn't in the system, we have to go out and look for a veteran free agent that will bring consistency to Carter and Upshall's game.

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06-08-2007, 09:37 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by IceHot View Post
What did he do not to deserve second line duties?
His lines let up much more then they scored...
Need I remind you: 81 16 12 28 -32

-32 -32 -32 -32

Regarding Giroux not playing the NHL we all know if they can't cut it in preseason they wouldn't get a shot, however if they do show promise it would be little different then the time Gagne or Williams grew with the team by jumping in the bigs and playing right away.
Does he qualify for the AHL and will he be on the Phantoms?
What about 10 Days then rushing him up after the line with Umberger would all be -10 by then?
plus/minus stats can be overrated especially on last years team where everyone stunk...how bad was umberger defensively when he played with carter & dematrakos????
umberger was playing center on a 4th line last year when we didn't have enough players to skate two good lines...

i am not in love w/ umberger & wouldn't lose sleep if he was traded but he has scored 20 & 16 goals his first 2 years while being yo-yoed from line to line and playing all 3 forward positions...

getzlaff>umberger
perry>umberger

that being said 1st two years goal scoring:
umberger 20 & 16
getzlaff 14 & 25
perry 13 & 17
pyatt 6 & 23
hartnell 14 & 12

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06-08-2007, 09:40 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Rebel Banker View Post
that being said 1st two years goal scoring:
umberger 20 & 16
getzlaff 14 & 25
perry 13 & 17
pyatt 6 & 23
hartnell 14 & 12
Those players were also a lot younger in their first two NHL seasons than Umberger.

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