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Old
06-08-2007, 02:44 PM
  #26
Marshall
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You know, it's an interesting idea. I agree with Drake that I'd try to weasel the second rounder instead of the first, but all in all, not a bad idea.

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06-08-2007, 03:04 PM
  #27
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My biggest peeve going into this off season will be who are they going to find to play with Green. Its obvious he would be best suited with a stay at home type that can play his his own end and allow Green to develop his offensive game a bit.

Kubina...in theory...would be great to play with Green. I've always thought Morrisonn and Green would make a nice pairing actually...but if they could get a Kubina and play him along side Green...that would be a sweet pairing. Hannan would be the perfect fit...but just not likely to sign here.

Kubina - Green
Morrisonn - Pothier
Jurcina - Boumer/Schultz

Or

Kubina - Pothier
Morrisonn - Green
Jurcina - Boumer/Schultz

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Old
06-08-2007, 03:27 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by strungout View Post
My biggest peeve going into this off season will be who are they going to find to play with Green. Its obvious he would be best suited with a stay at home type that can play his his own end and allow Green to develop his offensive game a bit.

Kubina...in theory...would be great to play with Green. I've always thought Morrisonn and Green would make a nice pairing actually...but if they could get a Kubina and play him along side Green...that would be a sweet pairing. Hannan would be the perfect fit...but just not likely to sign here.

Kubina - Green
Morrisonn - Pothier
Jurcina - Boumer/Schultz

Or

Kubina - Pothier
Morrisonn - Green
Jurcina - Boumer/Schultz
you think green's ready for first pair type minutes?

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Old
06-08-2007, 03:45 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by pgreene View Post
you think green's ready for first pair type minutes?
NO.

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Old
06-08-2007, 03:54 PM
  #30
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I know Hanlon wasn't quick to praise the Morrisonn-Jurcina pairing late in the season but I thought they played some really decent hockey together. The consistently large TOI they got is proof that Hanlon at least felt the most confident with them patrolling the ice. I'd try to keep that pairing together as a shutdown duo.

Morrisonn - Jurcina
New guy - Green
Pothier - Schultz/Erskine

Green should play with whatever steadying presence is brought in on the blueline (if one is brought in...). He just needs it more than anyone else and would benefit the most from it if it's successful. You can argue that he's not ready for the minutes that would come with it (which is true based on his individual performance this past season), but it's a risk I'd at least attempt at taking early on in the season. If he just simply can't do it and isn't ready for it, then you shake the pairings up a bit but I'd try it from a developmental standpoint.

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06-08-2007, 04:02 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by pgreene View Post
you think green's ready for first pair type minutes?
If he's playing with someone like Kubina...he can easily play 15 to 17 a night. Just because he'd technically be on the first pair...doesnt mean he'd be getting 24 minutes a night.

Kubina, Boumer, Pothier, and Jurcina/Green would be the PP guys.

Morrisonn, Kubina, Jurcina, and Pothier/Boumer would be the main PK'ers.

Green would get even strength minutes with Kubina and spliting that up with a solid second pairing of Mo and Pothier or Jurcina would balance out the minutes. Kubina and Mo would get 22+, Pothier and Jurcina around 18 to 20, Green/Boumer/Schultz in the 16 to 17 range since they would not be getting the PK time the others would.

I guess the scary part would be pairing up against other teams top lines...but that's what Mo and Jurcina/Pothier would be for while Kubina/Green would bring more offense.

I don't know....hard to speculate on what the minutes would look like when he's not even here. But overall...yes...I think Green is ready as long as he has a solid partner. No Heward's or Muir's dammit.

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Old
06-08-2007, 04:53 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by strungout View Post
If he's playing with someone like Kubina...he can easily play 15 to 17 a night. Just because he'd technically be on the first pair...doesnt mean he'd be getting 24 minutes a night.

Kubina, Boumer, Pothier, and Jurcina/Green would be the PP guys.

Morrisonn, Kubina, Jurcina, and Pothier/Boumer would be the main PK'ers.

Green would get even strength minutes with Kubina and spliting that up with a solid second pairing of Mo and Pothier or Jurcina would balance out the minutes. Kubina and Mo would get 22+, Pothier and Jurcina around 18 to 20, Green/Boumer/Schultz in the 16 to 17 range since they would not be getting the PK time the others would.

I guess the scary part would be pairing up against other teams top lines...but that's what Mo and Jurcina/Pothier would be for while Kubina/Green would bring more offense.

I don't know....hard to speculate on what the minutes would look like when he's not even here. But overall...yes...I think Green is ready as long as he has a solid partner. No Heward's or Muir's dammit.
i think he needs a veteran, someone who can coach him on the ice. like a callejo to brendan witt sort of situation. kid's got some great tools, but he seems to make interesting decisions. if he had someone out there who could shout at him when he was pinching at a bad time, for example, and who could dissect his game between shifts, that'd be a good thing. kubina wouldn't be terrible, i don't know enough about hannan. lord what a difference a niedermeyer/lidstrom type could make on this team. i actually just had a thought that scared me a little bit--kenny klee. he's adapted better than i would've thought to the new nhl and certainly fits the veteran tag...

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Old
06-08-2007, 04:54 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strungout View Post
Kubina for the 2nd first rounder and Eminger.
the only thing about that trade is that Toronto is trying to move Kubina to make room on the core for Stralman, so to make that trade, it only opens cap space, I still think it's a pretty good deal, but I just can't see the Leafs making this deal.

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Old
06-08-2007, 05:46 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by ididitlangway View Post
He's not an ideal #1, this is true. But the Caps are going to be hard pressed to find an ideal #1 while not giving up a good chunk of their core assets. I'd venture to say it's pretty much impossible. Even if the Caps were to land the best free agent defenseman available--Timonen as it currently stands, imo--he'd cost more, is a couple years older and isn't nearly as big.
But it seems to me that they picked all these assets up so they COULD trade away some "core" players to pick up other already developed players when the time was right.

Timonen might cost more but he's got a much better offensive game and is a left shooting defender. Something the Caps need badly.

I like Kubina...he's got great size, but $5 mill for him seems just as outrageous now as it did when Toronto signed him. He's also a righty.

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06-08-2007, 05:56 PM
  #35
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Hmm....we really want to take on a $5 million underachiever? A guy who will likely NEVER live up to his contract?

If we make that deal, he's our #1. I don't like it personally.
I am not sure that he never lives up to the contract. He played to that level in Tampa. He is a southeast division guy as drake said. He is familiar with the opposition. He has an axe to grind with Tampa Bay which is not a bad thing were he wearing the Caps sweater in front of Olie Kolzig.

Yea...he might never be a bargain at that salary, but he brings skills the Caps need and is probably the best package they can get. Not a top offensive player, but can produce something more than there was last season and more then Boumedienne on his best day. He is big and plays defense that way and McPhee likes that. He can skate and again fits nicely into what McPhee has seen in Morrisonn, Jurcina but is far more polished.

Kubina could be easily paired with Pothier, Morrisonn, Jurcina or Schultz to great advantage.

He is not my first choice. Not in my first tier, but if the Caps could get him for the 28th pick and Eminger, I would be very happy.

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Old
06-08-2007, 06:36 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by shanwon View Post
But it seems to me that they picked all these assets up so they COULD trade away some "core" players to pick up other already developed players when the time was right.
That depends on who you'd describe as a core player, of course.

By core I meant Ovechkin, Kolzig, Backstrom, Semin, Clark, Morrisonn and Gordon. You have to give to get and I'm not sure the Caps are willing to give up the significant, proven assets necessary to land a true #1 defenseman or an elite center. Those types are very rarely, if ever, dumped for salary purposes and rarely dealt by clubs looking to rebuild. The only way I see a really big name trade happening is if there's another Pronger situation where a team is forced to make a trade. In that case, the Caps are pretty well positioned to put together a package similar to that which Anaheim gave up last year.

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06-08-2007, 08:31 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by ididitlangway View Post
That depends on who you'd describe as a core player, of course.

By core I meant Ovechkin, Kolzig, Backstrom, Semin, Clark, Morrisonn and Gordon. You have to give to get and I'm not sure the Caps are willing to give up the significant, proven assets necessary to land a true #1 defenseman or an elite center. Those types are very rarely, if ever, dumped for salary purposes and rarely dealt by clubs looking to rebuild. The only way I see a really big name trade happening is if there's another Pronger situation where a team is forced to make a trade. In that case, the Caps are pretty well positioned to put together a package similar to that which Anaheim gave up last year.

First off...nobody said "true #1" like a Pronger, etc...that's a pipe dream so let's just let that go.

So for us to get a #1 defender (on the Caps) better than Kubina (hopefully, at worst equal) we have to give up something of the following? Ovechkin, Kolzig, Backstrom, Semin, Clark, Morrisonn and Gordon

So long Gordon if that's the case. He had a great breakout season and I was one of the few praising his play throughout the year last season, but he's HARDLY someone most wouldn't trade in a 2nd as part of a package for a top defender.

Again I'm not talking a Pronger/Chara type guy. I'm talking a #2 guy on a playoff type team that could step into that #1 role with us.

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Old
06-08-2007, 11:16 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by strungout View Post
Kubina for the 2nd first rounder and Eminger.
Not a bad idea at all.

My one concern is the draft might be a little early to make this kind of deal. The list of d-men on the FA market is actually rather lengthy, long enough that I think there is a a legit*chance* at landing some semblence of what they need via UFA's for the blueline and the Kubina deal would probably still be there mid-summer anyway.

Finding a centre via ufa's will be tougher, smaller list with more marquee names on it equates to tough market conditions for the Caps in that department. I'd be quicker to react (trading at the draft) on that front. I'm sort of crossing my fingers for Nylander, got a string of garlic around my neck to ward off Yashin, but I don't know if anyone else is realsitic.

I do like the Kubina for Eminger and a pick though. As Mcphee, I'd argue up the contract albatross angle in negotiations to try and push that pick to the second rounder - but I don't actually think that contract is sooo bad for the Caps. Kubina never got going last year due to injuries and he's historically been something of an ironman so it was just a weird season all around for him. Plus - three years left is a lot better than four IMO. It expires before Backstrom has to be resigned and just as Ovechkin hits UFA status. Up until that time I don't see Kubina's 5 million being a problem in Washington, the Caps may not come close to reaching the cap ceiling before that time and if it wasn't Kubina - it'd be someone else, maybe better, maybe worse, but also someone they may have found more 'economical'. That's not always a good thing. One thing's for sure, if the Caps get any of the notable UFA d-men on the open market, their contract isn't likely to be any less of an overpayment than Kubina's IMO.

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Old
06-09-2007, 09:51 AM
  #39
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In regards to the Kubina to Washington idea, i still think some salary has to go the other way in that deal. I don't think the Caps would have any problem moving their late 1st and Eminger to get him. But I think the Caps would try to get Toronto to take a guy like Clymer too. I like Clymer, but that is a million bucks that the Caps really don't need to spend.

Kubina and a 5th

for

Late 1st, Eminger, and Clymer

I think that deal makes some sense. Although spending 5 million per on Kubina still hurts, as it is about a million to much.

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Old
06-09-2007, 11:05 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
In regards to the Kubina to Washington idea, i still think some salary has to go the other way in that deal. I don't think the Caps would have any problem moving their late 1st and Eminger to get him. But I think the Caps would try to get Toronto to take a guy like Clymer too. I like Clymer, but that is a million bucks that the Caps really don't need to spend.

Kubina and a 5th

for

Late 1st, Eminger, and Clymer

I think that deal makes some sense. Although spending 5 million per on Kubina still hurts, as it is about a million to much.

And force Maurice to ship his buddy Bates back to the Marlies?

That's cold

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Old
06-09-2007, 01:55 PM
  #41
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I'd love to see Eminger paired with Colaiacovo in Toronto. Hopefully JFJ can swing a deal with the Caps to get it done.

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Old
06-12-2007, 12:54 PM
  #42
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TO just resigned Sundin for 1 year $5.5 million. Taking a thread on the Leaf's board as gospel, they have $40.6 committed to 21 players. They have to resign Cola (~1.3) and Peca (~2.5) which takes them to $44.4.

Assuming the cap goes to $48 they have only $3.6 million to sign both a top 6 winger and a backup goaltender.

I bet they'd like to shed Kubina to give them a little more wiggle room for injuries/deadline acquisitions.

Come on McPhee...

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06-12-2007, 01:23 PM
  #43
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Normally I think these trade proposal threads are so much crap, not even worth reading. But I like Japs's proposal of Eminger, Clymer and a first (just as long as it's not the #5 overall) for Kubina and a pick. Eminger and Clymer make $1 mill each and so sending $2 mill and getting back $5 mill makes a net gain of $3 mill which is within the Caps budget. And fills a BIG HOLE. Put me down as being in favor of this one.

I'd think long and hard about ever trading Gordo. I believe GMGM loves him and will hold on to him because he's McPhee's find (he was a definite reach at #17). I'd hate to see him go to. Only in return for very high quality.

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06-14-2007, 03:58 PM
  #44
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I don't think TO would be willing to take on the salary of Clymer...the fact that the Caps would be taking ~4 mill of salary off of TOs hands would be perhaps the strongest thing they (the Caps) had to offer in this deal.

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06-14-2007, 04:37 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by HokieCapsFan View Post
I don't think TO would be willing to take on the salary of Clymer...the fact that the Caps would be taking ~4 mill of salary off of TOs hands would be perhaps the strongest thing they (the Caps) had to offer in this deal.
yep...good point.

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Old
06-14-2007, 05:42 PM
  #46
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I proposed this on the Toronto board

Washington gets- Kubina
Toronto gets- 28th pick, and Eminger, or Fehr, or Fleischman.

They all said yes and it was half-and-half with Fehr or Fleischman.

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Old
06-15-2007, 01:39 PM
  #47
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Not bad, but I'm wondering if Leonsis is willing to take Kubina's salary, which is a net of $4 mill after shipping Eminger out. Fehr's or Fleischmann's salary wouldn't be counted, as they still could be shipped to Hershey

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06-15-2007, 01:50 PM
  #48
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Not bad, but I'm wondering if Leonsis is willing to take Kubina's salary, which is a net of $4 mill after shipping Eminger out. Fehr's or Fleischmann's salary wouldn't be counted, as they still could be shipped to Hershey
Like it or not, Leonsis is going to have to take on extra salary this year. Just by virtue of the cap going up, he's going to have to shell out more dough than he did last year.

While you can make a case that Kubina is overpaid, it'd likely cost just as much (if not more) to get a similar player in free agency (assuming they'd want to come to DC). It's interesting that Leonsis supposedly said that defense was their #1 priority recently. A center for Ovechkin seemed to be their top priority just a short time ago, with GMGM saying that he was mostly pleased with their D. That seems to have now changed and, I'd say, with good reason.

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06-15-2007, 02:00 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by ididitlangway View Post
Like it or not, Leonsis is going to have to take on extra salary this year. Just by virtue of the cap going up, he's going to have to shell out more dough than he did last year.

While you can make a case that Kubina is overpaid, it'd likely cost just as much (if not more) to get a similar player in free agency (assuming they'd want to come to DC). It's interesting that Leonsis supposedly said that defense was their #1 priority recently. A center for Ovechkin seemed to be their top priority just a short time ago, with GMGM saying that he was mostly pleased with their D. That seems to have now changed and, I'd say, with good reason.
To me it's not a question of if he will spend money this summer, since he has to to reach the cap floor. It's how the money will be spent. Will he spend on 3 or more players to fill all the holes that exist, or on 2 quality players. I see 4 holes: vet #1 center, puck rushing D/PP QB, stay at home D and vet top 6 forward. Looking into my crystal ball I can tell how much Leonsis will spend, but not how it will be spent. Stay tuned

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06-15-2007, 02:12 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Gas House Gorilla View Post
To me it's not a question of if he will spend money this summer, since he has to to reach the cap floor. It's how the money will be spent. Will he spend on 3 or more players to fill all the holes that exist, or on 2 quality players. I see 4 holes: vet #1 center, puck rushing D/PP QB, stay at home D and vet top 6 forward. Looking into my crystal ball I can tell how much Leonsis will spend, but not how it will be spent. Stay tuned
That's a good point. I think their priorities shake out like this...

- Top-pairing defenseman
- Center for AO
- Vet. winger
- Depth defenseman

Realistically, I think they could get by with just one defenseman added if the one that's added isn't one-dimensional and can excel in all situations. That'd slot everyone down a spot into roles where they're more likely to succeed.

As for how much will be spent, it depends first off on how generous they are with their RFAs and exactly how much the cap goes up. And, from there, what type of players/contracts are shipped out in any deals. After dealing with their RFAs, it seems likely that at least a net increase of $6-8M will take place.

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