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Old
06-11-2007, 09:08 AM
  #51
RegalRangers
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Can we please not trade away a future All-Star (Prucha)? Please? He's so young and all of his flaws are due to lack of experience. The guy is going to be incredible in a couple more years. I'm sick of trading away young talent because everyone's thinks that a two year veteran is old-hat. A player's development doesn't stop when he reaches the nhl... All Prucha needs to explode is the right line and enough ice time, neither of which he got last season and still put up 40 points.

Everybody calm down on the trade Prucha talk.

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06-11-2007, 09:55 AM
  #52
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I think he's going and I think most Ranger fans are going to be upset with what the team gets in return for him.

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06-11-2007, 12:04 PM
  #53
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I would NOT trade Prucha for Kesler or Bieska. Bieska had a good year but I think it was a fluke and he'll have the sophomore jinx. I don't think he's that good. If we were offered Bourdon, I'd make the deal right now. I would LOVE that trade. You mention that we're strong at the position with Staal, Girardi, Sang, and Tyutin which is just RIDICULOUS. First, I like Girardi but he's NOT EVEN close to Bourdon. Bourdon is better then Sang. Staal is better then Bourdon but they're two different players. You can say Tyutin is better but he also is a different player. Bourdon is like Sang but better. YOU CAN NEVER HAVE TOO MANY GOOD DEFENDERS. A future defensive pairing of

Staal - Bourdon
Tyutin - Sang
Girardi - Pock/Sauer/Liffiton, etc.

Talk about great depth at offensive players playing with defensive players. They're all young and inexpensive. I also think it can be one of the best cores in the entire league.

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06-11-2007, 12:35 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I think he's going and I think most Ranger fans are going to be upset with what the team gets in return for him.
Everyone can be had at the right price. However, how many young top six forwards do we have ready to play or almost ready? What happens if Jagr and Straka start to show their age?Same for Nyls and Shanny if resigned. I'm very concerned with the forward group. I'm much more optimistic with our backliners. Prucha, to me, is a very important part of our future. Nothing really new from me on this point.

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06-11-2007, 01:36 PM
  #55
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Petr Prucha=24 years old. He is incredibly young and I did not realze this. The way he plays is awsome. He is just much fun to watch. He has a ton of fight in him and never gves in. He is mentally tough and he is the type of player we need to go all the way. He was defintely snakebit last year will net at least 30 this year. You can write that down. Petr Prucha will put up 60 points. You can quote me.

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06-11-2007, 01:47 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
I'm confused by this. When you say he's a "back checking nightmare" are saying that in reference to his own team, meaning he doesn't play defense, or in reference to the other team, meaning he's all over the ice playing a two-way game? If it's the former doesn't that contradict with your next statement that he gives "150% effort"?
To add further explanation to his defensive deficiencies, they are the good type. The problem is caused by two problems:

Frame: While listed by TSN and Rangers Media Guide as 6'0, his Czech Republic stats put him at 5'10 and this is far more accurate than the current listed height. 170 lbs is a fair assesment, but barely. The Rangers organization has approached him about adding muscle mass last offseason and I can only believe he is trying to add some core strength to his wiry physique.

Positioning: The good news is he is not a cherrypicker or forgetting his man in defensive coverage. Many times, he's with his man stride for stride, but does not have favorable position for leverage for pushing a player off the puck. Smaller defensemen like Brian Rafalski, despite their size, have overcome their size differential by strictly adhering to strict body positioning exercises.

Combing these two problem areas, backchecking is usually the facet of his game that gets the most criticism. In a straight, up and down backchecking assignment, his natural advantages: shiftiness, and elusiveness, are neutralized, and his ability to win a 1-1 battle against the attacking puck carrier are greatly compromised. I expect to see him develop a stronger frame and his positioning has improved greatly since entering the NHL and only expect it to get better.

I personally think many Ranger fans have too high of hopes for Petr (1st line, some say All-star). I've personally always hoped for Cory Stillman type production: 25-30 goals of secondary scoring. Having success at a young age doesn't not automatically qualify you for exponential, and ever increasing production.

He is quite an interesting player with many different attributes.

Forecheck: He is an absolute pinball out there. Very effective for energy, not physical intimidation but it rarely results in puck turnovers.

Puck/Stick Checks: Petr is FANTASTIC at stealing the puck from players. While not a topflight stickhandler, he has a great set of hands, especially in tight spaces which make him great at swiping the puck from players who are just beginning to headman a rush.

Like many Ranger fans, I love to watch him play because he's absolutely fearless. By evidenced by two straight years of a very high shooting %, he has a great shot. From this, his best use is in the high slot on the PP. After Jagr, he has the best one-timer and is great at shooting around the hash marks and is willing to go after rebounds in the hard/dirty areas in front of the net. Just doesn't have the powerforward frame to stay in front of the net for prolonged times.

Think of a "Bure" who would appear out of no where to get off his shot but also have the balls to get tackled to the ice chasing after a loose puck in the crease.

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06-11-2007, 02:15 PM
  #57
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I believe trading prucha would be a HUGE mistake.

Thi kid is still young and I believe he can work on some of his weaknesses. Not all, but some.

A guy like Rafalski not only succeeds because of his body positioning, but because Rafalski is a much more fluid and quicker skater. Not just in breakout speed, but also great quickness in tight and in lateral and backskating. You have to be an accomplished skater and have quickness and long term speed, in order to utilize body positioning.

Prucha on the otherhand, is not quite as nimble and fluid in his skating. Although I really felt he made some progress/improvement in his overall skating this season; compared to his rookie year.

While it appears he really does need to gain some muscle weight, he is a rather strong little guy. In all honesty, 5' 10" may be pushing it. He may actually be smaller. I noticed when he stood next to Straka, he was exactly the same height; but Straka is listed at 5' 9". The NHL has always been a duplicitous trainwreck when reporting accurate height and weight. Height, is it with skates, or without?

Weight, is it with skates and gear, or barefoot and nude?

No one seems to know.

I firmly believe you have to stick with a kid like Prucha and continue to work with him and put him in the best position possible to utilize his skills. I see him as Second Line guy, not a First Line Star. At least at this early stage in his career.

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06-11-2007, 02:25 PM
  #58
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Maybe a Jannik Hansen or a Bourdon in a deal for Petr. Some more would be put into it, but id def think about it.

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06-11-2007, 02:34 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeds2StepOpus View Post
I believe trading prucha would be a HUGE mistake.
Agreed

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06-11-2007, 05:50 PM
  #60
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That's an excellent assessment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frozenrubber View Post
To add further explanation to his defensive deficiencies, they are the good type. The problem is caused by two problems:

Frame: While listed by TSN and Rangers Media Guide as 6'0, his Czech Republic stats put him at 5'10 and this is far more accurate than the current listed height. 170 lbs is a fair assesment, but barely. The Rangers organization has approached him about adding muscle mass last offseason and I can only believe he is trying to add some core strength to his wiry physique.

Positioning: The good news is he is not a cherrypicker or forgetting his man in defensive coverage. Many times, he's with his man stride for stride, but does not have favorable position for leverage for pushing a player off the puck. Smaller defensemen like Brian Rafalski, despite their size, have overcome their size differential by strictly adhering to strict body positioning exercises.

Combing these two problem areas, backchecking is usually the facet of his game that gets the most criticism. In a straight, up and down backchecking assignment, his natural advantages: shiftiness, and elusiveness, are neutralized, and his ability to win a 1-1 battle against the attacking puck carrier are greatly compromised. I expect to see him develop a stronger frame and his positioning has improved greatly since entering the NHL and only expect it to get better.

I personally think many Ranger fans have too high of hopes for Petr (1st line, some say All-star). I've personally always hoped for Cory Stillman type production: 25-30 goals of secondary scoring. Having success at a young age doesn't not automatically qualify you for exponential, and ever increasing production.

He is quite an interesting player with many different attributes.

Forecheck: He is an absolute pinball out there. Very effective for energy, not physical intimidation but it rarely results in puck turnovers.

Puck/Stick Checks: Petr is FANTASTIC at stealing the puck from players. While not a topflight stickhandler, he has a great set of hands, especially in tight spaces which make him great at swiping the puck from players who are just beginning to headman a rush.

Like many Ranger fans, I love to watch him play because he's absolutely fearless. By evidenced by two straight years of a very high shooting %, he has a great shot. From this, his best use is in the high slot on the PP. After Jagr, he has the best one-timer and is great at shooting around the hash marks and is willing to go after rebounds in the hard/dirty areas in front of the net. Just doesn't have the powerforward frame to stay in front of the net for prolonged times.

Think of a "Bure" who would appear out of no where to get off his shot but also have the balls to get tackled to the ice chasing after a loose puck in the crease.

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06-11-2007, 05:52 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bathgate View Post
Everyone can be had at the right price. However, how many young top six forwards do we have ready to play or almost ready? What happens if Jagr and Straka start to show their age?Same for Nyls and Shanny if resigned. I'm very concerned with the forward group. I'm much more optimistic with our backliners. Prucha, to me, is a very important part of our future. Nothing really new from me on this point.
Hey, I agree with you. And I have never been a loud trade Prucha guy. I have my doubts about him but I am not looking to deal him.

That said, I just seem to really have feeling that the powers that be are not completely in love with him.

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06-11-2007, 06:01 PM
  #62
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He's young, his potential is high, and he has been able to produce here in NY. 20-30+ goals per season, at a cheap price shouldn't be traded away. He's fun to watch, and he should be fully healed from his knee injury, which should allow him to up his numbers.

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06-11-2007, 06:06 PM
  #63
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Renney is the only member of the Ranger's organization that would lead me to believe that anyone isn't "that high on him"...

That's because Renney doesn't know how to effectively utilize specific players on the roster....

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06-11-2007, 06:14 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Gointa, Kariya & Sullivan do not seem to have such issues.
But prucha doesn't have the speed that those guys have.

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06-12-2007, 07:54 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RegalRangers View Post
Can we please not trade away a future All-Star (Prucha)? Please? He's so young and all of his flaws are due to lack of experience. The guy is going to be incredible in a couple more years. I'm sick of trading away young talent because everyone's thinks that a two year veteran is old-hat. A player's development doesn't stop when he reaches the nhl... All Prucha needs to explode is the right line and enough ice time, neither of which he got last season and still put up 40 points.

Everybody calm down on the trade Prucha talk.
I agree 100%. Let's not trade away someone who will end up being a star for another team.

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06-12-2007, 08:02 AM
  #66
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I agree 100%. Let's not trade away someone who will end up being a star for another team.
At least not until February and the team is poised for a cup run but needs a veteran.

(Ala Tony Amonte in '94.. but Stephane Matteau delivered immediately.)

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06-12-2007, 08:42 AM
  #67
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I've seen Prucha get through the defense North-South unlike any european player on the Rangers in the last 20 years, besides Kovalev. You get that sort of head down and to the net style from very few Europeans (Kovalev included) and thats something special IMO.

More times than not he'll get stopped, but he'll get the puck deep and continue to work.

People say hes a liability on defense. Hes getting better. Hes only played 2 seasons and in all fairness to him he's gotten better and he's also still developing. 52 goals and one of the highest shooting percentages over that span in the league is tough to argue with. And thats what all the other teams see.

I think this more about something else if he is moved. Something the other teams and their fans don't recognize.

His size and lack of durability.



The first year he was a spark plug and played more minutes than this year and got injured in the process. Many of us though it for sure it would be a concussion with the style of play he has, but luckily (in a sense) it was a knee injury at the break. He didnt come back the same the second half. So this past year in a direct effect of that he was babied for the whole first half, not given the minutes he earned the prior year and his numbers suffered.

Now its one thing using him as a powerplay specialist and a lower line player where he can get his nose dirty and stay healthier. The Rangers are convinced imo that he can't play top minutes - and for you vancouver fans, you'd be surprised how often he would get wrecked in the tougher Western Conference with top minutes on the Sedin line - yeah he would keep getting up, thats what you would love about him but at game 70 he would be destroyed.

It will all depend on who the Rangers land in the offseason IMO. If Prucha can be expendable on the PP what good is he if they think his body can't hold up with his cannonball style??

If there is a need for him down there to provide that spark and they believe he can be a sure fire contributor while staying healthy than he could be very useful. It all depends on how the Rangers feel about this guy and his longevity.

Let's face it, we all love how the guy plays me included. But realistically if you put him on a #1 line in the west he would get murdered out there against the physical defensmen. So if a trade comes up and theres something that the Rangers can sink their teeth into don't be surprised if they move him. Even if its for a #3 or #4 defensmen.

I think they think worlds of this kid, but hes just not big enough. Especially if you are about to pay an RFA 30 goal scorer. Then you might be stuck with a decent contract and a unsettling question about his longevity...


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06-12-2007, 11:00 AM
  #68
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I'd have to say that if we sign a UFA center and don't resign Shanny we'll be in good shape and it opens up room to put Prucha on the 2nd.

Hossa/Nyl/Jagr
Prucha/UFA/Straka
Avery/Cullen/Callahan

or without a UFA

Hossa/Nyls/Jagr
Prucha/Straka/Callahan
Dawes/Cullen/Avery

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06-12-2007, 11:07 AM
  #69
HockeyBasedNYC
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Originally Posted by Graf22 View Post
I'd have to say that if we sign a UFA center and don't resign Shanny we'll be in good shape and it opens up room to put Prucha on the 2nd.

Prucha won't play second line IMO, even if he stays.

See above.


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06-12-2007, 11:24 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Prucha won't play second line IMO, even if he stays.

See above.
It's not a lack of heart andI don't see it as a lack of talent either (Hossa clicks with Jagr and Nylander, doesn't make him first line talent.) I just see it as a lack of willingness from Renney to give the kid 2nd line minutes. He is small but makes up for it with heart and you can't knock his try. Put him on the 2nd line and let him score 30... Whats that hurt?

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06-12-2007, 11:30 AM
  #71
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Quote:
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It's not a lack of heart andI don't see it as a lack of talent either (Hossa clicks with Jagr and Nylander, doesn't make him first line talent.) I just see it as a lack of willingness from Renney to give the kid 2nd line minutes. He is small but makes up for it with heart and you can't knock his try. Put him on the 2nd line and let him score 30... Whats that hurt?
It has nothing to do with his heart or desire.

No one is knocking his try.

Put him on the second line and watch him get hurt or not have enough in the tank for the final run and playoffs. Thats why Renney doesnt use him there.

Personally I dont go for babying players, but this is what I believe Renney and the Rangers think about Prucha and his durability.

And because of this, it exposes his defensive side of the puck because hes playing 3rd and 4th line minutes, sometimes matching up against the other teams best, especially on the road.

Hossa is a bull and is much stronger in the corners on the puck. Have you seen Prucha get hit? Half of the time when he doesnt dodge a hit he gets bombed.

Play him 20 minutes a game and its only a matter of time before his first concussion.
With all this in mind does it pay to keep him if the right UFA's are signed? or do you let him walk and get the picks? Or do you trade and get soemthing back?

These are easy suggestions to come up with. Hes not on the block for nothing.


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06-12-2007, 11:50 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post

Hossa is a bull and is much stronger in the corners on the puck. Have you seen Prucha get hit? Half of the time when he doesnt dodge a hit he gets bombed.

Play him 20 minutes a game and its only a matter of time before his first concussion.
With all this in mind does it pay to keep him if the right UFA's are signed? or do you let him walk and get the picks? Or do you trade and get soemthing back?

These are easy suggestions to come up with. Hes not on the block for nothing.
Of course i've seen him get hit. I've also seen Eric Lindros get hit, he's a big man... So saying a little guy is going to get hurt if he plays 20 minutes a game is just speculation. Look at St. Louis he's listed at 5' 9" 185lbs... If Petr adds ten pounds I wouldn't worry about his durability as much. If we we're to lose Petr I'd deffinetly want something good in return, picks or a young NHL player. Package him for the right young stud and i'd do it in a heart beat. I'm a fan of Petr's but I'm more a fan of the Rangers and if trading him helps us in the long run so be it.

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06-12-2007, 12:01 PM
  #73
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Of course i've seen him get hit. I've also seen Eric Lindros get hit, he's a big man... So saying a little guy is going to get hurt if he plays 20 minutes a game is just speculation. Look at St. Louis he's listed at 5' 9" 185lbs... If Petr adds ten pounds I wouldn't worry about his durability as much. If we we're to lose Petr I'd deffinetly want something good in return, picks or a young NHL player. Package him for the right young stud and i'd do it in a heart beat. I'm a fan of Petr's but I'm more a fan of the Rangers and if trading him helps us in the long run so be it.
I'm totally with you on this.

Believe it or not, judging from what i'm writing I love Prucha and hope hes not moved because i think he will develop a better defensive side to himself and is a dangerous DANGEROUS weapon on the thrid line with the right supporting cast.

I hope hes not moved because if they do get the right center i think having him on the third line with Cullen and possibly a new strong winger who can create a little more than wha they have now, the depth of the team increases and that third line really is a threat.

The key here is do they have the room? Do they sign another winger? Do they re-sign Shanny, what to do with Hossa... Is someone gonna come up...etc.

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06-12-2007, 12:12 PM
  #74
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I hope hes not moved because if they do get the right center i think having him on the third line with Cullen and possibly a new strong winger who can create a little more than wha they have now, the depth of the team increases and that third line really is a threat.
Valid point... Cullen is good as a third line center, Prucha fits well with Cullen and another quicker kind of wing could potentially make that line a legit threat...

I like that idea, but I can't stand the idea of Avery on the 2nd line, and I dont want to resign Shanny... So there are a lot of ?'s.

Hossa is not a legit first line wing so we need to do something with him, he reminds me of Jan Hlavac with Dvo and Nedved. Without those two Hlavac was nothing more than a marginal player.

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06-12-2007, 12:12 PM
  #75
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prucha - cullen and cally looked good last year...what they need to do is give it to callahan for a shot at the far post from the right circle as they enter the zone and prucha needs to crash that far side for a rebound...which will occur if they shoot to the far post. they scorefd a few goals like this, and callahan shot plus prucha's drive to the net will result in a lot of goals, or penalties for interfearence with prucha going to the net.

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