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06-10-2007, 09:22 AM
  #1
operasen
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Gomez Hypothetical

Do you play him on the first line between Heatly and Alfredsson, or the second line (1b) with Alfredsson and ?, leaving Spezza with Heatly and ?.

If he really does want to come here that is.

Throw in a Hartnell type somewhere and our top 9 are elite

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06-10-2007, 09:51 AM
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Heatley - Spezza - Eaves
Fisher - Gomez - Alfredsson
Schaefer - Vermette - Kelly
Saprykin - McCammond - Neil

The beauty of these lines would be if the top line isn't hustling or is having an off-night.. You could sit em' down and tell them to watch the determination the 2nd line plays with.

I'd also be fine moving Vermette, McCammond or Alfredsson to the top line.
Also, trying Gomez with our youngins who should be stepping up in the near future (Eaves, Vermette) would be a great as well.

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06-10-2007, 09:54 AM
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With the Heatley and Spezza contracts up next year, I can't see the team signing Gomez. Maybe Hartnell to play the wing, and if they trade Redden then maybe there'd be another UFA signing on the blue line (Hannan?). Those would be pretty big moves for Ottawa, considering their history of not making big changes...

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06-10-2007, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoppy View Post
Heatley - Spezza - Eaves
Fisher - Gomez - Alfredsson
Schaefer - Vermette - Kelly
Saprykin - McCammond - Neil

The beauty of these lines would be if the top line isn't hustling or is having an off-night.. You could sit em' down and tell them to watch the determination the 2nd line plays with.

I'd also be fine moving Vermette, McCammond or Alfredsson to the top line.
Also, trying Gomez with our youngins who should be stepping up in the near future (Eaves, Vermette) would be a great as well.
I agree with a lot of what you say, especailly the name of Gomez anywhere in the lineup. That guy is a tremendous player, a spark plug if there ever was one. But why do you and others persist in putting Spezza and Heatley together yet again, ad nauseum, when it is obvious after the Anaheim series that they are completely ineffective when closely checked by a competent and aggressive team, nor are they very good at shooting it in and getting possession of the puck on the boards. Split these guys up and force Heatley to play hockey again instead of spending all of his time waiting for a pass from Spezza to score an easy goal. Anaheim don't allow those types of goals very often, and that is a major reason why we lost the series. Spezza/ Heatley style of play is okay for regular season play when the checking is loose, or against ineffective defenses in the playoffs, but it is death against a superior team who have the personnel to shut them down. I repeat, play Heatley on a line seperate from Spezza, and we'll be a better team next year.

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06-10-2007, 09:40 PM
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If Gomez were interested in coming to Ottawa for a decent salary (I think 5-5.5M would be worth considering) I would think you'd have to pair him with Heatley. Since Gomez is a left handed shot, it would allow Heatley to move back to his (more) natural right wing where he can better utilize his skills (such as his one-timer). Gomez is also much stronger defensively than Spezza so by pairing Gomez with Heatley, and Spezza with Alfredsson, you've got better balanced pairs defensively, not to mention splitting up 2 of the slower players on the team in Spezza and Heatley.

I think Gomez would be an incredible addition to this hockey team, much more valuable than Comrie was, and would allow us to have 2 bonafide scoring lines.

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06-10-2007, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delchief View Post
With the Heatley and Spezza contracts up next year, I can't see the team signing Gomez. Maybe Hartnell to play the wing, and if they trade Redden then maybe there'd be another UFA signing on the blue line (Hannan?). Those would be pretty big moves for Ottawa, considering their history of not making big changes...
If Ottawa was to make an offer to a big name UFA, why would it be Gomez? Wouldn't we make an offer to local boy (Gatineau) Daniel Briere first? I know I would. That said, the only way we could really do that is to unload Redden or at the very least, find someone to take Gerber and if possible, Schaefer in a trade.

I would rather have Briere, who is good friends with Heatley, to help keep Heatley in Ottawa. I think Briere would take a slight pay cut to play in his home town, with Heatley and contend for the cup again this year.

I know, we need cap room in 2008 for Spezza/Heatley/Fisher, BUT that is another year away and the cap is going upto $50 or $52M this year, who knows what it goes up to next year? I doubt it goes down... Next year we can decide what to do with the team, and it's UFAs/RFAs and do what we can to keep the core together (Spez/Heat/Fish) but let's do it next year after we have added a Stanley Cup to the trophy shelf.

I personally would also like to upgrade in Goal. Just don't know how that would work. Not much available to upgrade from Emery. Other than Goal, I would really like to add another solid talent on offence and a solid, inexpensive defenceman (if possible).

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06-10-2007, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delchief View Post
With the Heatley and Spezza contracts up next year, I can't see the team signing Gomez. Maybe Hartnell to play the wing, and if they trade Redden then maybe there'd be another UFA signing on the blue line (Hannan?). Those would be pretty big moves for Ottawa, considering their history of not making big changes...
If we signed Gomez at around 5.5M, I'd be thrilled, and would even be willing to let Heatley walk the next summer. IMO, Gomez at 5.5M is better than Heatley at 7M+, which is what he's going to get.

Gomez is a winner, he's got two Stanley Cups and has been to the finals three times. We saw what this guy could do against us. He's flat out deadly on the ice. He'd be an amazing fit with Alfie. If anything, it would give us one year of two scary good lines, then worry about the next year when the season is over.

You win with strength down the middle. It's been proven time and time again. Spezza, Gomez, and Fisher would be a dynamite trio at center.

Quote:
If Ottawa was to make an offer to a big name UFA, why would it be Gomez? Wouldn't we make an offer to local boy (Gatineau) Daniel Briere first? I know I would.
Maybe it's just me, but I think Gomez is better than Briere. Gomez is scary pretty much every time he's on the ice. Briere disappears for games at a time (just look at our series with Buffalo). I'd take Gomez 9 times out of 10. Plus, there are rumors out there that he wants to come to Ottawa.


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06-10-2007, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCanadian View Post
If Ottawa was to make an offer to a big name UFA, why would it be Gomez? Wouldn't we make an offer to local boy (Gatineau) Daniel Briere first? I know I would. That said, the only way we could really do that is to unload Redden or at the very least, find someone to take Gerber and if possible, Schaefer in a trade.

I would rather have Briere, who is good friends with Heatley, to help keep Heatley in Ottawa. I think Briere would take a slight pay cut to play in his home town, with Heatley and contend for the cup again this year.

I know, we need cap room in 2008 for Spezza/Heatley/Fisher, BUT that is another year away and the cap is going upto $50 or $52M this year, who knows what it goes up to next year? I doubt it goes down... Next year we can decide what to do with the team, and it's UFAs/RFAs and do what we can to keep the core together (Spez/Heat/Fish) but let's do it next year after we have added a Stanley Cup to the trophy shelf.

I personally would also like to upgrade in Goal. Just don't know how that would work. Not much available to upgrade from Emery. Other than Goal, I would really like to add another solid talent on offence and a solid, inexpensive defenceman (if possible).
I agree with mostly everything you just said. But I think Gomez would be a bigger presence in the playoffs mostly because hes been there so often with New Jersey.

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06-10-2007, 09:55 PM
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Gomez is a good player, nice playmaker but has only hit 20 once in his career.

We would need to pair him with Alfredsson and it would be swell next year but if we do not win the cup it may not have been worth it as Heatley will walk.

Alfie is our only legit scorer then so we better hope we find snipers to play with Spezza and Gomez or there playmaking ability will go to waste.

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06-10-2007, 09:56 PM
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i'd rather have smyth at 5.5-6 than gomez.

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06-10-2007, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuhr86 View Post
We would need to pair him with Alfredsson and it would be swell next year but if we do not win the cup it may not have been worth it as Heatley will walk.
I already explained why I'd still do it in that one post. Gomez at 5.5M is as good, if not better than Heatley at $7.5M, IMO. And championships are won with strength down the middle, and Gomez has already got a couple of those Stanley Cup rings.

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06-10-2007, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by The Mars Volchenkov View Post
I already explained why I'd still do it in that one post. Gomez at 5.5M is as good, if not better than Heatley at $7.5M, IMO. And championships are won with strength down the middle, and Gomez has already got a couple of those Stanley Cup rings.
Yes it would be nice next season but if we don't win the cup and Heatley walks due to no cap space, Alfredsson is are only established sniper. Who is going to score the goals?

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06-10-2007, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuhr86 View Post
Yes it would be nice next season but if we don't win the cup and Heatley walks due to no cap space, Alfredsson is are only established sniper. Who is going to score the goals?
Gomez and Spezza are two of the better playmakers in the world. That's why they're going to get paid the big bucks. Guys like Vermette and Eaves would have better goal totals playing with those two for full seasons.

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06-10-2007, 10:06 PM
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On top of which when we use Reddens cap space on Gomez cause redden was dealt.

We still have to find away to distibute his 23+ minutes a night.

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06-10-2007, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by The Mars Volchenkov View Post
Gomez and Spezza are two of the better playmakers in the world. That's why they're going to get paid the big bucks. Guys like Vermette and Eaves would have better goal totals playing with those two for full seasons.
I would like to agree but every time Vermette has been given an opportunity for bigger minutes he has been unable to do it.

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06-10-2007, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by The Mars Volchenkov View Post
I already explained why I'd still do it in that one post. Gomez at 5.5M is as good, if not better than Heatley at $7.5M, IMO. And championships are won with strength down the middle, and Gomez has already got a couple of those Stanley Cup rings.
Gomez would be a great asset for this team. With Alfie paired up with him and Spezza with Heatley(or even Hartnell if Heater leaves) the lines would be great, something like this:

Eaves - Spezza - Hartnell
Saprykin - Gomez - Alfie
Vermette - Fisher - Neil
McAmmond - Hennessy - Kelly

The 2nd line could become the 1st with Eaves taking the #1 LW spot. But if we sign someone like Gomez, that would probably mean that we're ready to let Spezza or Heatley walk...

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06-10-2007, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Fuhr86 View Post
Yes it would be nice next season but if we don't win the cup and Heatley walks due to no cap space, Alfredsson is are only established sniper. Who is going to score the goals?
Spezza did have 34 goals in 67 games this season and Fisher put up 22. Antoine Vermette almost hit 20 and Eaves chipped in with 14 as a fourth liner. These stats aren't amazing, but we have a team with players that I think will only get better. Hopefully, two seasons from now, some of our younger guys will be scoring 20+ a season.

Gomez would be an excellent pickup for next season. I liked how he played in the playoffs and would like to see that on our team. Who knows what things will be like when Heatley's contract is up.

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06-10-2007, 11:12 PM
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I would like to agree but every time Vermette has been given an opportunity for bigger minutes he has been unable to do it.
This is the second time I've read this in the past few days; is this perceived as fact or something? Vermette played his best hockey this year when he was lined up with more offensively talented players. Alfie got injured, Vermette himself got injured, and so on, and then the opportunity wasn't really there in the last half of the year.

Back to the topic, Gomez would be interesting. I'm not positive that I'd do it, but I'd definitely give serious thought to getting a guy like that and subsequently letting Heatley walk.

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06-10-2007, 11:18 PM
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This is the second time I've read this in the past few days; is this perceived as fact or something? Vermette played his best hockey this year when he was lined up with more offensively talented players. Alfie got injured, Vermette himself got injured, and so on, and then the opportunity wasn't really there in the last half of the year.
The last two years every time Vermette has got top six ice time he has not took it and we tried something else. I watched it happen with my own eyes.

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06-10-2007, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuhr86 View Post
The last two years every time Vermette has got top six ice time he has not took it and we tried something else. I watched it happen with my own eyes.
I'd have to disagree. When he was put with Havlat at the start of the year in 05, they looked good together, then Havlat got hurt and that was the end of that. This year, he got to play with Alfie for a while and they looked good together. He's looked good, he's just never gotten a chance to stick with them for an extended period of time.

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06-10-2007, 11:35 PM
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Has Alfredsson ever played LW? If so is there source to prove this?

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06-11-2007, 12:21 AM
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The last two years every time Vermette has got top six ice time he has not took it and we tried something else. I watched it happen with my own eyes.
See, I was going to say this was your opinion so agree to disagree, but "he has not [taken] it and we tried something else" is just . . . false. I remember people on this board clamoring for Murray to keep Vermette with Alfredsson, because they were good together. If I recall correctly, Alfie got hurt, and then when he came back, Alfie was moved to the top line. This stuff wasn't based on Vermette's performance. For example, Vermette played very (VERY) briefly with Spezza and Eaves as the second line when Spezza came back from injury, and they looked good -- they were broken up to reunite Spezza and Heatley. And so on. When the team was coming together earlier this year, even Murray said that Vermette proved to be a good second-line centre [in reference to people taking on different roles]. Vermette's one of my favourite players on this team; I've paid pretty close attention to this stuff.

He didn't get much top-six opportunity even this year, and when he did, he was fine. He was usually moved to the third line because Murray was always switching something up, and/or because Murray prefers to keep him with Kelly. You're the one who always says that Murray switches lines around to get everyone familiar with each other -- Vermette was bumped around the lineup in much the same manner as everyone else. As far as I've seen and heard this year, it hasn't been performance-based.

[ETA: Longer than I thought, and I really don't want to drag this off topic, so apologies for that.]

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06-11-2007, 12:38 AM
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He didn't get much top-six opportunity even this year, and when he did, he was fine. He was usually moved to the third line because Murray was always switching something up, and/or because Murray prefers to keep him with Kelly. You're the one who always says that Murray switches lines around to get everyone familiar with each other -- Vermette was bumped around the lineup in much the same manner as everyone else. As far as I've seen and heard this year, it hasn't been performance-based.

[ETA: Longer than I thought, and I really don't want to drag this off topic, so apologies for that.]
Around Novemeber and December though when we could have used someone to step up offensively Vermette dropped the ball. From Nov 22 to Dec 30th a string of 19 games he had five goals and two assists.

Vermettes final 23 games of the season he had 3 goals and four assists for seven points.

He had a couple good stretches this season but his offense is prone to vanish.

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06-11-2007, 01:04 AM
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There's no doubt Vermette was slumping bad in the second half of the season, but he looked pretty good earlier in the year. He's still young and not my ideal choice for a second line centre at present, but if he was allowed a significant stretch (say 10-15 games) playing there with Alfie/whoever else, I think he would prove to be at least as capable offensively as Fisher/Schaefer, our current second liners. I don't see 30 goals out of the cards for him if he can learn to be consistent offensively - same thing I'd say for Fisher.

Basically if we could somehow find a 5 million dollar guy to fill the role for one year, it would be a perfect situation. If not, I think one of Vermette or Fisher can handle it adequately if Alfie/someone good RW we pick up drops down.

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06-11-2007, 01:28 AM
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Around Novemeber and December though when we could have used someone to step up offensively Vermette dropped the ball. From Nov 22 to Dec 30th a string of 19 games he had five goals and two assists.

Vermettes final 23 games of the season he had 3 goals and four assists for seven points.

He had a couple good stretches this season but his offense is prone to vanish.
Well yeah, but your point was that he couldn't stay in a top-six position. I won't argue that he's been streaky so far, but that's a different thing. In terms of the lines argument: I don't remember what was going on in the Nov/Dec stretch, but for the bulk, if not all of the final 23 games, he was playing on the third line with Neil and Kelly, so that's closer to proving my original point than yours.

I'd like to have Gomez, that's all. I'm not convinced that Heatley's irreplaceable if we have two centres of that calibre on the team. I think Vermette would be capable of stepping up there, but he's not the only option; he's just an example.


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